[Continuation] Trans Women are not Women II: The Bath Of Khan - Page 13

Robin · 8th July 2019, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Depends what you mean. For example in the 80s in Manchester many of the Ts would go to the New Union (not the most trendy of the few gay pubs around the area) and they certainly didn't face violence and threats in such a pub. Yes there were some issues in that some of the Gs and Ls were not that friendly or supportive but in the end the commonality of persecution brought the activists together.

My recollection too. There were lots of tensions between certain groups and trans women in particular, but we were all there in it together.

Bisexuals got a worse run in many ways, especially as in the '80's it was hard to get people to believe there was such a thing. I wasn't around to see LGBT all grouped together. Even the L and G was a difficult marriage.

d4m10n · 11th July 2019, 05:25 AM

Via CBS

Quote:

A transgender journalist is expressing concern about how Democrats running for president talk about trans issues. Katelyn Burns, who was the first transgender Capitol Hill reporter in U.S. history, joins CBSN to discuss her latest article in Politico.

https://twitter.com/transscribe/stat...54552932519945

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

ETA: Funny thing about this is that we know Julián Castro practiced his answers time and time again, from last weekend's episode of This American Life.

The Atheist · 16th July 2019, 02:03 PM

Science!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/114291...fair-advantage

Quote:

Science demonstrates that high adult levels of testosterone, as well as permanent testosterone effects on male physiology during in utero and early development, provides a performance advantage in sport and that much of this male physiology is not mitigated by the transition to a transwoman.

mgidm86 · 17th July 2019, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Science!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/114291...fair-advantage

You mean smashing the women's hurdle world record by 2 full seconds (if I remember correctly) isn't normal? Shocked.

All the women MMA fighters that had to fight a trans then later complained they'd never been hit so hard in their lives actually weren't lying?

This is one of the stupidest subjects ever discussed here, and that is saying a whole lot.

Sorry ladies, we're taking away your bathrooms, your right to your own bodies, and now your sports. Ya let's get things back to where they belong - the dark ages.

WT politically correct F is wrong with people?

And guess what? Scientists will not sway people's opinions on this matter. Science is not politically correct.

Giz · 18th July 2019, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Science!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/114291...fair-advantage

Interesting:

"Potential solutions include excluding trans women from competing in the women's division, creating a third division for trans women and intersex women and calculating a handicap for trans women based on their testosterone levels – similar to that used in golf.

Their preferred option is an extension of this with a proposed algorithm that could account for a range of parameters, both physical and social, including physiological,*gender identity and could include socioeconomic status."

... could include socioeconomic status? Say goodbye to the Olympics being simply about 'the fastest man/woman in the world'

theprestige · 18th July 2019, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Giz

... could include socioeconomic status? Say goodbye to the Olympics being simply about 'the fastest man/woman in the world'

"You ran faster, but I won because I would have been even faster than you if I'd had a better upbringing and could afford better equipment and training. And if I were a man."

ETA: If this goes through, sooner or later we're going to have a fast woman who beats a slow man, but still loses the race because she didn't beat him by enough to offset her wealth advantage under the handicap rules.

And there are other awkwardnesses ahead of us as well. Sports competitions make money off of people who want to see the best of the best, putting each other to the test. This is why men's events generate far more revenue than women's events. Merging the literal best with the potential best into a single handicapped event will almost certainly reduce viewership and revenue. Presumably this outcome is undesirable to the IOC. Hopefully they don't actually imagine that the "transwomen are women" activists represent a demographic large enough to offset these revenue losses.

theprestige · 18th July 2019, 11:04 AM

The weirdest thing about all of this is that we now have situations where men make the best women.

Steve · 18th July 2019, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

"You ran faster, but I won because I would have been even faster than you if I'd had a better upbringing and could afford better equipment and training. And if I were a man."

"Fastest Woman in the World with a Gross Annual Income of less that $25,000".

The possible categories are endless.

theprestige · 18th July 2019, 01:10 PM

What will happen first? Equal pay for women's soccer? Or the complete destruction of women's soccer?

Sooner or late, a junior varsity men's college team is going to identify as women, go to the world cup, and score points like it was basketball.

Ziggurat · 18th July 2019, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

What will happen first? Equal pay for women's soccer? Or the complete destruction of women's soccer?

I really liked the Babylon Bee take:

Pay Gap Between Men's And Women's Teams Reveals Shocking Truth That People Are Paid To Play Soccer

My favorite bit:
"Soccer is a game played by children and Europeans that involves moving a ball around without using one’s hands -- the feature that distinguishes man from lesser animals."

GlennB · 18th July 2019, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I really liked the Babylon Bee take:

Pay Gap Between Men's And Women's Teams Reveals Shocking Truth That People Are Paid To Play Soccer

My favorite bit:
"Soccer is a game played by children and Europeans that involves moving a ball around without using one’s hands -- the feature that distinguishes man from lesser animals."

Ah, but human soccer players use their back legs to move the ball around. I'd like to see a dog do that.

Ziggurat · 18th July 2019, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

Ah, but human soccer players use their back legs to move the ball around. I'd like to see a dog do that.

Dogs might have some trouble, but birds could do it easily enough.

The Atheist · 18th July 2019, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Giz

Interesting:

... creating a third division for trans women and intersex women ...

That's the only sensible option, otherwise sport will end up in the same classification debacle that disabled sport has.

Originally Posted by theprestige

The weirdest thing about all of this is that we now have situations where men make the best women.

Thailand & Pacific Islands have recognised that for many years.

Depends on what accessories you're after - bit like choosing between a sports car and a kitted-out 4WD.

8enotto · 21st July 2019, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Robin

My recollection too. There were lots of tensions between certain groups and trans women in particular, but we were all there in it together.

Bisexuals got a worse run in many ways, especially as in the '80's it was hard to get people to believe there was such a thing. I wasn't around to see LGBT all grouped together. Even the L and G was a difficult marriage.

This mostly sums up my thoughts. Numerous small group identity folks mostly.tolerate kinda similar identity groups to try to gain special rights over the average citizen. Special.protection under law until they can do whatever they want because they feel it is as they say.

Not every office wants a six foot bloke in a bad wig and a dress greeting arrivals as it may present the wrong image. They don't want a toothless guy dressed like he is homeless for the same reasons. Even if both are perfectly capable of doing the job.

But laws exist in some places saying you couldn't refuse either the job based on appearance.

All it does is change internal policies to where they hire the best applicant based on unstated qualifications.

Ziggurat · 23rd July 2019, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I don't know who it is. I don't see any reason to doubt the authenticity of the screen captures though. I've read too many similar ones. Including Jonathan Yaniv.

It may very well be that most of these guys will hold back from actually assaulting anyone and simply get their rocks off by being in women's spaces, watching women's discomfort with their presence, and revelling in the whole charade. It's already been ruled (in the USA I believe) that girls have no right to visual privacy and so long as the man in their locker room doesn't actually touch them he can do what he likes and they have no comeback. Somehow it's not "exposing himself" or flashing if he says he's trans.

But you know what? I don't care. It's "not all transwomen" for sure, but it's a non-trivial proportion of them, and I am sick and tired of being lectured by clueless wokebeards that I should be kind and budge over for them, or worse still I have no right to privacy and not wanting that changing next to me is as bad as racism. I know the author of this blog post in real life. I tell you straight, if I ever see him in the ladies room when I'm there, I will run a mile.

How the freaking hell did we even get into this situation?

So Yaniv is back in the news. He's trying to organize a topless swimming event for 12 year old girls (well, not only girls, and not only 12, but including them). Parents would be excluded. I guess suing immigrants for refusing to wax his hairy balls isn't enough fun for him anymore. Oh, Canada.

d4m10n · 23rd July 2019, 01:05 PM

This individual is taking trolling IRL to a whole other level.

TomB · 23rd July 2019, 02:54 PM

From the article about the topless swim:

Quote:

The swim is for kids who identify as “LGBTQ2S+”.

What does "2S+" mean?

I'm starting to think that eventually there will be so many letters that everyone will have at least one that applies to them.

William Parcher · 23rd July 2019, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by TomB

From the article about the topless swim: What does "2S+" mean?

2S+ = Too shy plus don't even know what to do if we get naked.

Wayward son · 23rd July 2019, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by TomB

From the article about the topless swim:

What does "2S+" mean?

I'm starting to think that eventually there will be so many letters that everyone will have at least one that applies to them.

2S = Two-Spirited
+ = other identities not listed.

Rolfe · 24th July 2019, 11:33 AM

Bizarrely, I'm already in a position where I could identify as one of the alphabet soup if I chose. I choose not to.

theprestige · 24th July 2019, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Bizarrely, I'm already in a position where I could identify as one of the alphabet soup if I chose. I choose not to.

Since I can pass as a straight white male, I'd be a fool to identify as anything less.

d4m10n · 24th July 2019, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Since I can pass as a straight white male, I'd be a fool to identify as anything less.

Can't tell if sarcastic, b/c www.

My son has no trouble passing as well, but I wouldn't ever advise him to deny his Native American and Puerto Rican heritage.

Marcus · 24th July 2019, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Since I can pass as a straight white male, I'd be a fool to identify as anything less.

I have a hard time seeing how being a straight white male is an advantage these days. In past times, sure. Now I feel more like a minority group. In fact, I'm quite sure that demographic is a minority

theprestige · 24th July 2019, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Can't tell if sarcastic, b/c www.

My son has no trouble passing as well, but I wouldn't ever advise him to deny his Native American and Puerto Rican heritage.

Little bit sarcastic. If we accept the "privilege" framing, then anything other than straight white male is a state of lesser privilege.

The Atheist · 26th July 2019, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

I have a hard time seeing how being a straight white male is an advantage these days. In past times, sure. Now I feel more like a minority group. In fact, I'm quite sure that demographic is a minority

Yeah, it's tough being a white bloke, having all those centuries of privilege that means we're automatically seen as more authoritative, get the pick of the best women and run almost everything.

I'm thinking about starting a support group.

Robin · 26th July 2019, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Wayward son

2S = Two-Spirited

Kind of America-centric

Quote:

+ = other identities not listed.

Like het?

quadraginta · 26th July 2019, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

Originally Posted by Wayward son

2S = Two-Spirited

Kind of America-centric

<snip>

I don't see why. It is a concept found in societies all over the world. Even patriarchal ones.

Judeo-Christian and Abrahamic cultures are more the exception to that than the rule.

theprestige · 26th July 2019, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

I have a hard time seeing how being a straight white male is an advantage these days. In past times, sure. Now I feel more like a minority group. In fact, I'm quite sure that demographic is a minority

μολων λαβε

caveman1917 · 26th July 2019, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

I don't see why. It is a concept found in societies all over the world. Even patriarchal ones.

Only in patriarchal ones, apparently.

Originally Posted by article

What’s instead true is that American Indian nations that had more rigid gender roles and assigned women less power historically felt the need to strip male/female identities from non-conformers, while more egalitarian societies with less gender socialization lack two-spirit people because of, rather than in spite of, their lack of emphasis on sex-assigned gender roles.

Marcus · 26th July 2019, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

μολων λαβε

"Come and take them"? Not sure what that means in this context but at least it's not an insult.

theprestige · 26th July 2019, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Marcus

"Come and take them"? Not sure what that means in this context but at least it's not an insult.

It's not about being the majority demographic. It's about having the majority of the privileges.

Come and take the privileges. It's a bit of a non sequitur, though. Sorry about that.

quadraginta · 26th July 2019, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

It's not about being the majority demographic. It's about having the majority of the privileges.

Come and take the privileges. It's a bit of a non sequitur, though. Sorry about that.

In a way that is exactly what is happening to the poor, abused, misunderstood snowflakes.

Their privilege is gradually being taken away. Eroded a little bit at a time. Can't hire whoever they want. Can't rent or sell to whoever they want. Can't keep the brown people out of their schools or neighborhoods or clubs.

They used to be able to throw them out of town at sundown. Now they have to live next door to them. They used to be able to keep them off of juries. Now they can't even keep them off the bench. They used to be able to keep them from voting at all. Now they lose elections to them.

It's a terrible thing, loss of privilege.

d4m10n · 27th July 2019, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Their privilege is gradually being taken away. Eroded a little bit at a time. Can't hire whoever they want. Can't rent or sell to whoever they want. Can't keep the brown people out of their schools or neighborhoods or clubs.

Difficult at this point to avoid analogy to the safe spaces discussed upthread.

The Atheist · 27th July 2019, 12:13 PM

theprestige · 27th July 2019, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

In a way that is exactly what is happening to the poor, abused, misunderstood snowflakes.

Their privilege is gradually being taken away. Eroded a little bit at a time. Can't hire whoever they want. Can't rent or sell to whoever they want. Can't keep the brown people out of their schools or neighborhoods or clubs.

They used to be able to throw them out of town at sundown. Now they have to live next door to them. They used to be able to keep them off of juries. Now they can't even keep them off the bench. They used to be able to keep them from voting at all. Now they lose elections to them.

It's a terrible thing, loss of privilege.

Weird flex, but okay.

The Atheist · 28th July 2019, 12:37 AM

Then, there's the trans woman who's claiming hate crimes because female beauticians won't wax its pubic hair: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...triarchy-women

My suggestion is a woman should offer to wax its scrotal area, but heat the wax to a 212 degrees Celsius, then claim to have mixed up the scales.

Piece of garbage, doing real harm to actual transgender women.

JihadJane · 28th July 2019, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Then, there's the trans woman who's claiming hate crimes because female beauticians won't wax its pubic hair: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...triarchy-women

My suggestion is a woman should offer to wax its scrotal area, but heat the wax to a 212 degrees Celsius, then claim to have mixed up the scales.

Piece of garbage, doing real harm to actual transgender women.

Ziggurat · 28th July 2019, 08:45 AM

What's your point? That women should be forced to touch make genitals of in the name of acceptance?

Giz · 28th July 2019, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

What's your point? That women should be forced to touch make genitals of in the name of acceptance?

Ahem, those are female balls

Steve · 28th July 2019, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Giz

Ahem, those are female balls

Of course they are.

8th July 2019, 05:58 AM	#481
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,881	Originally Posted by Darat Depends what you mean. For example in the 80s in Manchester many of the Ts would go to the New Union (not the most trendy of the few gay pubs around the area) and they certainly didn't face violence and threats in such a pub. Yes there were some issues in that some of the Gs and Ls were not that friendly or supportive but in the end the commonality of persecution brought the activists together. My recollection too. There were lots of tensions between certain groups and trans women in particular, but we were all there in it together. Bisexuals got a worse run in many ways, especially as in the '80's it was hard to get people to believe there was such a thing. I wasn't around to see LGBT all grouped together. Even the L and G was a difficult marriage.
	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

16th July 2019, 02:03 PM	#483
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,960	Science! https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/114291...fair-advantage Quote: Science demonstrates that high adult levels of testosterone, as well as permanent testosterone effects on male physiology during in utero and early development, provides a performance advantage in sport and that much of this male physiology is not mitigated by the transition to a transwoman.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

17th July 2019, 05:55 PM	#484
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,983	Originally Posted by The Atheist Science! https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/114291...fair-advantage You mean smashing the women's hurdle world record by 2 full seconds (if I remember correctly) isn't normal? Shocked. All the women MMA fighters that had to fight a trans then later complained they'd never been hit so hard in their lives actually weren't lying? This is one of the stupidest subjects ever discussed here, and that is saying a whole lot. Sorry ladies, we're taking away your bathrooms, your right to your own bodies, and now your sports. Ya let's get things back to where they belong - the dark ages. WT politically correct F is wrong with people? And guess what? Scientists will not sway people's opinions on this matter. Science is not politically correct.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,983	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

18th July 2019, 10:19 AM	#485
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,709	Originally Posted by The Atheist Science! https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/114291...fair-advantage Interesting: "Potential solutions include excluding trans women from competing in the women's division, creating a third division for trans women and intersex women and calculating a handicap for trans women based on their testosterone levels – similar to that used in golf. Their preferred option is an extension of this with a proposed algorithm that could account for a range of parameters, both physical and social, including physiological,*gender identity and could include socioeconomic status." ... could include socioeconomic status? Say goodbye to the Olympics being simply about 'the fastest man/woman in the world'
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,709

18th July 2019, 11:02 AM	#486
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	Originally Posted by Giz ... could include socioeconomic status? Say goodbye to the Olympics being simply about 'the fastest man/woman in the world' "You ran faster, but I won because I would have been even faster than you if I'd had a better upbringing and could afford better equipment and training. And if I were a man." ETA: If this goes through, sooner or later we're going to have a fast woman who beats a slow man, but still loses the race because she didn't beat him by enough to offset her wealth advantage under the handicap rules. And there are other awkwardnesses ahead of us as well. Sports competitions make money off of people who want to see the best of the best, putting each other to the test. This is why men's events generate far more revenue than women's events. Merging the literal best with the potential best into a single handicapped event will almost certainly reduce viewership and revenue. Presumably this outcome is undesirable to the IOC. Hopefully they don't actually imagine that the "transwomen are women" activists represent a demographic large enough to offset these revenue losses.
	Last edited by theprestige; 18th July 2019 at 11:26 AM.

18th July 2019, 11:04 AM	#487
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	The weirdest thing about all of this is that we now have situations where men make the best women.

18th July 2019, 12:46 PM	#488
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 8,079	Originally Posted by theprestige "You ran faster, but I won because I would have been even faster than you if I'd had a better upbringing and could afford better equipment and training. And if I were a man." "Fastest Woman in the World with a Gross Annual Income of less that $25,000". The possible categories are endless.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

18th July 2019, 01:10 PM	#489
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	What will happen first? Equal pay for women's soccer? Or the complete destruction of women's soccer? Sooner or late, a junior varsity men's college team is going to identify as women, go to the world cup, and score points like it was basketball.
	Last edited by theprestige; 18th July 2019 at 01:12 PM.

18th July 2019, 01:22 PM	#490
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,039	Originally Posted by theprestige What will happen first? Equal pay for women's soccer? Or the complete destruction of women's soccer? I really liked the Babylon Bee take: Pay Gap Between Men's And Women's Teams Reveals Shocking Truth That People Are Paid To Play Soccer My favorite bit: "Soccer is a game played by children and Europeans that involves moving a ball around without using one’s hands -- the feature that distinguishes man from lesser animals."
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

18th July 2019, 01:25 PM	#491
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,257	Originally Posted by Ziggurat I really liked the Babylon Bee take: Pay Gap Between Men's And Women's Teams Reveals Shocking Truth That People Are Paid To Play Soccer My favorite bit: "Soccer is a game played by children and Europeans that involves moving a ball around without using one’s hands -- the feature that distinguishes man from lesser animals." Ah, but human soccer players use their back legs to move the ball around. I'd like to see a dog do that.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

18th July 2019, 01:29 PM	#492
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,039	Originally Posted by GlennB Ah, but human soccer players use their back legs to move the ball around. I'd like to see a dog do that. Dogs might have some trouble, but birds could do it easily enough.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

18th July 2019, 02:37 PM	#493
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,960	Originally Posted by Giz Interesting: ... creating a third division for trans women and intersex women ... That's the only sensible option, otherwise sport will end up in the same classification debacle that disabled sport has. Originally Posted by theprestige The weirdest thing about all of this is that we now have situations where men make the best women. Thailand & Pacific Islands have recognised that for many years. Depends on what accessories you're after - bit like choosing between a sports car and a kitted-out 4WD.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

21st July 2019, 07:24 PM	#494
8enotto Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Mexico Posts: 1,860	Originally Posted by Robin My recollection too. There were lots of tensions between certain groups and trans women in particular, but we were all there in it together. Bisexuals got a worse run in many ways, especially as in the '80's it was hard to get people to believe there was such a thing. I wasn't around to see LGBT all grouped together. Even the L and G was a difficult marriage. This mostly sums up my thoughts. Numerous small group identity folks mostly.tolerate kinda similar identity groups to try to gain special rights over the average citizen. Special.protection under law until they can do whatever they want because they feel it is as they say. Not every office wants a six foot bloke in a bad wig and a dress greeting arrivals as it may present the wrong image. They don't want a toothless guy dressed like he is homeless for the same reasons. Even if both are perfectly capable of doing the job. But laws exist in some places saying you couldn't refuse either the job based on appearance. All it does is change internal policies to where they hire the best applicant based on unstated qualifications.

23rd July 2019, 12:00 PM	#495
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,039	Originally Posted by Rolfe I don't know who it is. I don't see any reason to doubt the authenticity of the screen captures though. I've read too many similar ones. Including Jonathan Yaniv. It may very well be that most of these guys will hold back from actually assaulting anyone and simply get their rocks off by being in women's spaces, watching women's discomfort with their presence, and revelling in the whole charade. It's already been ruled (in the USA I believe) that girls have no right to visual privacy and so long as the man in their locker room doesn't actually touch them he can do what he likes and they have no comeback. Somehow it's not "exposing himself" or flashing if he says he's trans. But you know what? I don't care. It's "not all transwomen" for sure, but it's a non-trivial proportion of them, and I am sick and tired of being lectured by clueless wokebeards that I should be kind and budge over for them, or worse still I have no right to privacy and not wanting that changing next to me is as bad as racism. I know the author of this blog post in real life. I tell you straight, if I ever see him in the ladies room when I'm there, I will run a mile. How the freaking hell did we even get into this situation? So Yaniv is back in the news. He's trying to organize a topless swimming event for 12 year old girls (well, not only girls, and not only 12, but including them). Parents would be excluded. I guess suing immigrants for refusing to wax his hairy balls isn't enough fun for him anymore. Oh, Canada.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

23rd July 2019, 01:05 PM	#496
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,082	This individual is taking trolling IRL to a whole other level.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

23rd July 2019, 02:54 PM	#497
TomB Muse Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 807	From the article about the topless swim: Quote: The swim is for kids who identify as “LGBTQ2S+”. What does "2S+" mean? I'm starting to think that eventually there will be so many letters that everyone will have at least one that applies to them.
TomB Muse Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 807

23rd July 2019, 03:00 PM	#498
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,729	Originally Posted by TomB From the article about the topless swim: What does "2S+" mean? 2S+ = Too shy plus don't even know what to do if we get naked.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

23rd July 2019, 03:17 PM	#499
Wayward son Muse Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 541	Originally Posted by TomB From the article about the topless swim: What does "2S+" mean? I'm starting to think that eventually there will be so many letters that everyone will have at least one that applies to them. 2S = Two-Spirited + = other identities not listed.
Wayward son Muse Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 541

24th July 2019, 11:33 AM	#500
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 46,406	Bizarrely, I'm already in a position where I could identify as one of the alphabet soup if I chose. I choose not to.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

24th July 2019, 11:50 AM	#501
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	Originally Posted by Rolfe Bizarrely, I'm already in a position where I could identify as one of the alphabet soup if I chose. I choose not to. Since I can pass as a straight white male, I'd be a fool to identify as anything less.

24th July 2019, 12:08 PM	#502
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,082	Originally Posted by theprestige Since I can pass as a straight white male, I'd be a fool to identify as anything less. Can't tell if sarcastic, b/c www. My son has no trouble passing as well, but I wouldn't ever advise him to deny his Native American and Puerto Rican heritage.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

24th July 2019, 03:56 PM	#503
Marcus Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,446	Originally Posted by theprestige Since I can pass as a straight white male, I'd be a fool to identify as anything less. I have a hard time seeing how being a straight white male is an advantage these days. In past times, sure. Now I feel more like a minority group. In fact, I'm quite sure that demographic is a minority
Marcus Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,446

24th July 2019, 04:04 PM	#504
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	Originally Posted by d4m10n Can't tell if sarcastic, b/c www. My son has no trouble passing as well, but I wouldn't ever advise him to deny his Native American and Puerto Rican heritage. Little bit sarcastic. If we accept the "privilege" framing, then anything other than straight white male is a state of lesser privilege.

26th July 2019, 12:59 AM	#505
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,960	Originally Posted by Marcus I have a hard time seeing how being a straight white male is an advantage these days. In past times, sure. Now I feel more like a minority group. In fact, I'm quite sure that demographic is a minority Yeah, it's tough being a white bloke, having all those centuries of privilege that means we're automatically seen as more authoritative, get the pick of the best women and run almost everything. I'm thinking about starting a support group.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

26th July 2019, 01:06 AM	#506
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,881	Originally Posted by Wayward son 2S = Two-Spirited Kind of America-centric Quote: + = other identities not listed. Like het?
	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

26th July 2019, 06:21 AM	#507
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,139	Originally Posted by Robin Originally Posted by Wayward son 2S = Two-Spirited Kind of America-centric <snip> I don't see why. It is a concept found in societies all over the world. Even patriarchal ones. Judeo-Christian and Abrahamic cultures are more the exception to that than the rule.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

26th July 2019, 07:23 AM	#508
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	Originally Posted by Marcus I have a hard time seeing how being a straight white male is an advantage these days. In past times, sure. Now I feel more like a minority group. In fact, I'm quite sure that demographic is a minority μολων λαβε

26th July 2019, 07:38 AM	#509
caveman1917 Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,676	Originally Posted by quadraginta I don't see why. It is a concept found in societies all over the world. Even patriarchal ones. Only in patriarchal ones, apparently. Originally Posted by article What’s instead true is that American Indian nations that had more rigid gender roles and assigned women less power historically felt the need to strip male/female identities from non-conformers, while more egalitarian societies with less gender socialization lack two-spirit people because of, rather than in spite of, their lack of emphasis on sex-assigned gender roles.
caveman1917 Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7,676	__________________ "Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos "We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons "Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

26th July 2019, 12:16 PM	#510
Marcus Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,446	Originally Posted by theprestige μολων λαβε "Come and take them"? Not sure what that means in this context but at least it's not an insult.
Marcus Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3,446

26th July 2019, 12:31 PM	#511
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	Originally Posted by Marcus "Come and take them"? Not sure what that means in this context but at least it's not an insult. It's not about being the majority demographic. It's about having the majority of the privileges. Come and take the privileges. It's a bit of a non sequitur, though. Sorry about that.

26th July 2019, 08:22 PM	#512
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,139	Originally Posted by theprestige It's not about being the majority demographic. It's about having the majority of the privileges. Come and take the privileges. It's a bit of a non sequitur, though. Sorry about that. In a way that is exactly what is happening to the poor, abused, misunderstood snowflakes. Their privilege is gradually being taken away. Eroded a little bit at a time. Can't hire whoever they want. Can't rent or sell to whoever they want. Can't keep the brown people out of their schools or neighborhoods or clubs. They used to be able to throw them out of town at sundown. Now they have to live next door to them. They used to be able to keep them off of juries. Now they can't even keep them off the bench. They used to be able to keep them from voting at all. Now they lose elections to them. It's a terrible thing, loss of privilege.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

27th July 2019, 07:08 AM	#513
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,082	Originally Posted by quadraginta Their privilege is gradually being taken away. Eroded a little bit at a time. Can't hire whoever they want. Can't rent or sell to whoever they want. Can't keep the brown people out of their schools or neighborhoods or clubs. Difficult at this point to avoid analogy to the safe spaces discussed upthread.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin Last edited by d4m10n; 27th July 2019 at 07:16 AM.

27th July 2019, 12:13 PM	#514
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,960
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

27th July 2019, 01:12 PM	#515
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,647	Originally Posted by quadraginta In a way that is exactly what is happening to the poor, abused, misunderstood snowflakes. Their privilege is gradually being taken away. Eroded a little bit at a time. Can't hire whoever they want. Can't rent or sell to whoever they want. Can't keep the brown people out of their schools or neighborhoods or clubs. They used to be able to throw them out of town at sundown. Now they have to live next door to them. They used to be able to keep them off of juries. Now they can't even keep them off the bench. They used to be able to keep them from voting at all. Now they lose elections to them. It's a terrible thing, loss of privilege. Weird flex, but okay.

28th July 2019, 12:37 AM	#516
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 27,960	Then, there's the trans woman who's claiming hate crimes because female beauticians won't wax its pubic hair: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...triarchy-women My suggestion is a woman should offer to wax its scrotal area, but heat the wax to a 212 degrees Celsius, then claim to have mixed up the scales. Piece of garbage, doing real harm to actual transgender women.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.