House Impeachment Inquiry - Page 15

a_unique_person · 2nd October 2019, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Here are just some of Trump's staff, appointees and associates who have said or suggested Trump is stupd.

Sam Nunberg describes his ignorance. Nunberg, was sent to “explain the Constitution” to Trump when he was a candidate. “I got as far as the Fourth Amendment,” Nunberg recalled, “before his finger is pulling down on his lip and his eyes are rolling back in his head.”

Steve Bannon " like an 11 year old child"
White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh "Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”—

Rupert Murdoch "a ******* idiot"
Roger Ailes. 'a moron"
Rex Tillerson Secretary of State "a ******* moron"
Gary Cohen Economic advisor "dumb as ****"
H R McMaster National security advisor "a dope"
John Kelly Chief of staff "an idiot"
Steve Mnuchin Secretary of Treasury "an idiot"
Reince Preibus Chief of staff "an idiot"
Sam Nunberg "he's an idiot"

There are lots more. But as I said before. Read his speeches. They really are stupid. And yet people voted for this moron.

You should also note that Trump has threatened legal action against every school he's attended. If Trump is really "a stable genius" why is he frightened of evidence?

A great listicle there.

I Am The Scum · 2nd October 2019, 03:45 PM

Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.

Dr. Keith · 2nd October 2019, 03:48 PM

Dr. Keith liked the post:

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.

Trebuchet · 2nd October 2019, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.

Thank You.

theprestige · 2nd October 2019, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.

Roger that. I'll do my best to respect your wishes.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 8th October 2019, 03:20 PM

Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony

Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo.

This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914

Quote:

I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify, but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court, where Republican’s rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public....

....to see. Importantly, Ambassador Sondland’s tweet, which few report, stated, “I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind.” That says it ALL!

Sideroxylon · 8th October 2019, 03:43 PM

Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis.

dudalb · 8th October 2019, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony

Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo.

This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914

King Donald The First.
I am above the Law.

Beelzebuddy · 8th October 2019, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis.

They've been saying that the entire time. Democrats just haven't wanted to hear it.

DkCreative · 8th October 2019, 04:25 PM

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

a_unique_person · 8th October 2019, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis.

But it's not fair.

*stamps feet*

Beelzebuddy · 8th October 2019, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by DkCreative

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

Not at all. You're assuming they give a crap about the truth.

The point of the investigation was to have an investigation. Propagandists could take care of the rest, accusing Biden of everything under the sun and especially the crimes Giuliani was currently in Ukraine committing. It almost worked, too, even with the whistleblower calling attention to it.

As for "before risking everything," I'll put ten bucks down that Trump has asked everyone to do something similar, in every single negotiation.

PhantomWolf · 8th October 2019, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by DkCreative

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

It goes back to a Alt-Right Wing Conspiracy Theory that Hunter was hired by Burisma for nefarious purposes and was paid extreme amounts of money to hide Burisma's corrupt practices and then Joe Biden had the prosecutor who was "looking into" Burisma's supposed corruption fired so as to protect both his son and the company. There is also claim that the company that Hunter set up with several others, acting as a go-between for Chinese investors wanting to invest in the US, were involved in money laundering and fraud.

There is no actual evidence of either claim, and in fact a lot of evidence that is contradictory to them.

Skeptic Ginger · 8th October 2019, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

King Donald The First.
I am above the Law.

With a gaggle of cheerleader GOP legislators to hoot and holler about the kangaroo court.

Skeptic Ginger · 8th October 2019, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

They've been saying that the entire time. Democrats just ~~haven't wanted to hear it.~~ [aren't about to accept it.]

ftfy

Skeptic Ginger · 8th October 2019, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by DkCreative

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

The whole matter is out in the open and other than Biden being too close to the oil industry, there's nothing there.

That doesn't stop Trump or the GOP from shouting accusations from the roof tops which then stick in many people's heads.

Beelzebuddy · 8th October 2019, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

ftfy

No, it was right the first time. Democrats in the House keep slowly plodding through the motions, each time pretending that this time, THIS time, their chamber will be shown the respect it deserves. If they understood that Trump is going to block everything, they'd have had a subpoena in hand for what's his name's deposition. You're not allowed to testify now? Okay, here's some paperwork, we order you to testify... now.

The Trump administration has obstructed and intimidated every single witness so far. There is every indication they will continue to do so, even with subpoenas, even with impeachment. They need to understand that and plan for it, not simply act outraged every time Lucy pulls the football away and back up for another run at it.

The Great Zaganza · 8th October 2019, 08:13 PM

The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally.
That will get him to cooperate.

acbytesla · 8th October 2019, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally.
That will get him to cooperate.

No, they should hold them in contempt, arrest them and fine them.

blutoski · 8th October 2019, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally.
That will get him to cooperate.

Why would he care about this bill?

His SOP is to decree that he doesn't have to pay for things like the little people do.

The Great Zaganza · 8th October 2019, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by blutoski

Why would he care about this bill?

His SOP is to decree that he doesn't have to pay for things like the little people do.

Then they can start repossessing stuff, starting with his pile of prescription drugs.

Delvo · 9th October 2019, 04:23 AM

Or his house

The Great Zaganza · 9th October 2019, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by Delvo

Or his house

you sure he's got a house? Or even an apartment?
I think the banks would have first dibs.

slyjoe · 9th October 2019, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

No, they should hold them in contempt, arrest them and fine them.

Barr and Wilbur Ross are already in contempt.

JoeMorgue · 9th October 2019, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by slyjoe

Barr and Wilbur Ross are already in contempt.

They're in contempt in the same way a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound.

slyjoe · 9th October 2019, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

They're in contempt in the same way a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound.

Unfortunately true. My understanding, limited as it is, is that Congress would have to take them to court and have a judge tell them (Barr and Ross) to comply with the subpoena. Then, when they don't, the judge can determine they are in contempt of COURT, then penalties can be applied. One to 12 months in jail and/or up to $100,000.

I don't know if Congress has taken the contempt citation to court yet.

Segnosaur · 9th October 2019, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by slyjoe

Unfortunately true. My understanding, limited as it is, is that Congress would have to take them to court and have a judge tell them (Barr and Ross) to comply with the subpoena. Then, when they don't, the judge can determine they are in contempt of COURT, then penalties can be applied. One to 12 months in jail and/or up to $100,000.

I don't know if Congress has taken the contempt citation to court yet.

Actually, I think Congress has the ability to enforce subpoenas, outside of the courts.

From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena.
...
Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation).

If that's true, then Congress certainly has the authority to "play hardball"... to issue subpoenas and if Trump or his minions fail to respond, to have them arrested.

(I will of course defer to anyone with more legal expertise than myself.)

acbytesla · 9th October 2019, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Actually, I think Congress has the ability to enforce subpoenas, outside of the courts.

From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena.
...
Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation).

If that's true, then Congress certainly has the authority to "play hardball"... to issue subpoenas and if Trump or his minions fail to respond, to have them arrested.

(I will of course defer to anyone with more legal expertise than myself.)

You pretty much nailed it. Journey v Mackracken 294 U.S. 125 (1935)

turingtest · 9th October 2019, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony

Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo.

This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914

What I love about this is the way Trump refuses to let Sondland testify under oath at the same time he uses the unsworn testimony of his "tweet" (actually a text message Sondland sent Taylor- the message that is at the center of the question)- he'll use the message to proclaim his innocence but refuse to let anyone ask questions about it. In Trump-land, you can eat your cake and have it too.

catsmate · 9th October 2019, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by DkCreative

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

Why? The Trumpettes made up lies about Clinton from whole cloth.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th October 2019, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

No, it was right the first time. Democrats in the House keep slowly plodding through the motions, each time pretending that this time, THIS time, their chamber will be shown the respect it deserves. If they understood that Trump is going to block everything, they'd have had a subpoena in hand for what's his name's deposition. You're not allowed to testify now? Okay, here's some paperwork, we order you to testify... now.

The Trump administration has obstructed and intimidated every single witness so far. There is every indication they will continue to do so, even with subpoenas, even with impeachment. They need to understand that and plan for it, not simply act outraged every time Lucy pulls the football away and back up for another run at it.

No, I had it right. Just because Trump is huffing and puffing and making up fake talking points like an imaginary rule the whole House has to vote before proceeding with an Impeachment, and trying to gaslight his base doesn't mean ****.

The longer Trump drags it out, the closer to the election it gets and the more nervous the Senate Republicans are getting.

Why you think the Democrats aren't going to write up Articles of Impeachment because Trump is huffing and puffing is beyond me.

Keep in mind Trump appears successful while he fails at everything given enough time. He's failing at being POTUS and that's par for the course.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th October 2019, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by DkCreative

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

Trump?

Come on, he constantly spews lies about people and everything else.

And risk everything?

acbytesla · 9th October 2019, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

What I love about this is the way Trump refuses to let Sondland testify under oath at the same time he uses the unsworn testimony of his "tweet" (actually a text message Sondland sent Taylor- the message that is at the center of the question)- he'll use the message to proclaim his innocence but refuse to let anyone ask questions about it. In Trump-land, you can eat your cake and have it too.

It's not just one message, it is a series of messages and how the series shows a clear consciousness of guilt. It is how Sondland broke off his text conversation and resumed it 5 hours later with a message with an entorely different tone. A text that looks like was written by a lawyer. Why did Sondland break off the conversation and call the President? Trump keeps touting that text while ignoring the other texts. It appears as if Sondland was conspiring with the President and others to get their stories straight.

WilliamSeger · 9th October 2019, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by DkCreative

Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.

Yep, congratulations, that's exactly what you're supposed to assume, just like all those crimes detailed in Hillary's email.

Skeptic Ginger · 9th October 2019, 09:48 AM

I channel-surfed past the 700 Club this morning and saw Pat Robertson repeating the GOP/Trump talking point that the whole House (as opposed to a committee) has to vote before starting the Impeachment investigation.

Typical of these liars, he claimed he talked to "two legal scholars" that agree with him.

His audience I'm sure just eats those lies up.

I guess God has forgiven Trump's mistake of withdrawing from Syria.

Armitage72 · 9th October 2019, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I channel-surfed past the 700 Club this morning and saw Pat Robertson repeating the GOP/Trump talking point that the whole House (as opposed to a committee) has to vote before starting the Impeachment investigation.

Typical of these liars, he claimed he talked to "two legal scholars" that agree with him.

This is the same show that had a "trained martial artist" say that you can kill someone with a single well-placed blow from a baton, so the fact that the police hit Rodney King so many times proved that they weren't really trying to hurt him.

turingtest · 9th October 2019, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It's not just one message, it is a series of messages and how the series shows a clear consciousness of guilt. It is how Sondland broke off his text conversation and resumed it 5 hours later with a message with an entorely different tone. A text that looks like was written by a lawyer. Why did Sondland break off the conversation and call the President? Trump keeps touting that text while ignoring the other texts. It appears as if Sondland was conspiring with the President and others to get their stories straight.

Yep. But it's the one isolated message that Trump wants to use, as (unsworn) testimony for his innocence, out of a whole that needs to be explored under oath and that may show guilt. And that's a pattern Trump (and his defenders) seem to follow, taking evidence, including his own words/actions, out of a properly-considered whole and pretending that the piece-meals proclaim innocence. "Great and unmatched wisdom?" "He was joking!"- ignoring all the times he has said things that reveal an unmatched superiority complex. "He asked foreign countries (Ukraine and China) to investigate Biden for corruption." "Well, shouldn't the President be allowed to ask people to investigate possible corruption, even if those people are in another country?"- ignoring that the only "corruption" he seems concerned with is what he attributes, without any actual investigation, to a man who is, I'm sure by coincidence, a political rival.

All this wide-eyed innocence coming from Trump supporters just is not very convincing.

Belz... · 9th October 2019, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I didn't misspeak, though. I said exactly what I wanted to say, in exactly the way I wanted to say it.

Then the problem's at the source.

Belz... · 9th October 2019, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Belz, theprestige

I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.

Belz..., please don't correct people when they make errors or tell untruths, it's disruptive.

Belz... · 9th October 2019, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

King Donald The First.
I am above the Law.

If this keeps up, the Senate's going to become just as important as it was under Augustus.

2nd October 2019, 03:34 PM	#561
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 42,972	Originally Posted by acbytesla Here are just some of Trump's staff, appointees and associates who have said or suggested Trump is stupd. Sam Nunberg describes his ignorance. Nunberg, was sent to “explain the Constitution” to Trump when he was a candidate. “I got as far as the Fourth Amendment,” Nunberg recalled, “before his finger is pulling down on his lip and his eyes are rolling back in his head.” Steve Bannon " like an 11 year old child" White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh "Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”— Rupert Murdoch "a ***** idiot" Roger Ailes. 'a moron" Rex Tillerson Secretary of State "a *** moron" Gary Cohen Economic advisor "dumb as **" H R McMaster National security advisor "a dope" John Kelly Chief of staff "an idiot" Steve Mnuchin Secretary of Treasury "an idiot" Reince Preibus Chief of staff "an idiot" Sam Nunberg "he's an idiot" There are lots more. But as I said before. Read his speeches. They really are stupid. And yet people voted for this moron. You should also note that Trump has threatened legal action against every school he's attended. If Trump is really "a stable genius" why is he frightened of evidence? A great listicle there.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

2nd October 2019, 03:48 PM	#563
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 21,967	Dr. Keith liked the post: Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Belz, theprestige I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

2nd October 2019, 03:48 PM	#564
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,599	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Belz, theprestige I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop. Thank You.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

8th October 2019, 03:20 PM	#566
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30,962	Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo. This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914 Quote: I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify, but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court, where Republican’s rights have been taken away, and true facts are not allowed out for the public.... ....to see. Importantly, Ambassador Sondland’s tweet, which few report, stated, “I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind.” That says it ALL!
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

8th October 2019, 04:10 PM	#568
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 49,879	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo. This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914 King Donald The First. I am above the Law.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

2nd October 2019, 03:45 PM	#562
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,558	Belz, theprestige I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop.

2nd October 2019, 04:33 PM	#565
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,538	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Belz, theprestige I don't care if you two resolve your issues in private messages, another thread, or a seedy motel room that charges by the hour. As long this nonsense stops getting dragged into other threads multiple times, I'll be happy. Please just stop. Roger that. I'll do my best to respect your wishes.

8th October 2019, 03:43 PM	#567
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,121	Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis.

8th October 2019, 04:23 PM	#569
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis. They've been saying that the entire time. Democrats just haven't wanted to hear it.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,012

8th October 2019, 04:25 PM	#570
DkCreative New Blood Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 3	I wonder if they found any dirt Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything.
DkCreative New Blood Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 3

8th October 2019, 04:36 PM	#571
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 42,972	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Now that the WH has said get ****** to the impeachment process the US seems in crisis. But it's not fair. stamps feet
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

8th October 2019, 04:42 PM	#572
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by DkCreative Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything. Not at all. You're assuming they give a crap about the truth. The point of the investigation was to have an investigation. Propagandists could take care of the rest, accusing Biden of everything under the sun and especially the crimes Giuliani was currently in Ukraine committing. It almost worked, too, even with the whistleblower calling attention to it. As for "before risking everything," I'll put ten bucks down that Trump has asked everyone to do something similar, in every single negotiation.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,012	Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 8th October 2019 at 04:44 PM.

8th October 2019, 04:57 PM	#573
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,100	Originally Posted by DkCreative Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything. It goes back to a Alt-Right Wing Conspiracy Theory that Hunter was hired by Burisma for nefarious purposes and was paid extreme amounts of money to hide Burisma's corrupt practices and then Joe Biden had the prosecutor who was "looking into" Burisma's supposed corruption fired so as to protect both his son and the company. There is also claim that the company that Hunter set up with several others, acting as a go-between for Chinese investors wanting to invest in the US, were involved in money laundering and fraud. There is no actual evidence of either claim, and in fact a lot of evidence that is contradictory to them.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

8th October 2019, 05:22 PM	#574
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,746	Originally Posted by dudalb King Donald The First. I am above the Law. With a gaggle of cheerleader GOP legislators to hoot and holler about the kangaroo court.
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.

8th October 2019, 05:23 PM	#575
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,746	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy They've been saying that the entire time. Democrats just ~~haven't wanted to hear it.~~ [aren't about to accept it.] ftfy
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.

8th October 2019, 05:25 PM	#576
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,746	Originally Posted by DkCreative Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything. The whole matter is out in the open and other than Biden being too close to the oil industry, there's nothing there. That doesn't stop Trump or the GOP from shouting accusations from the roof tops which then stick in many people's heads.
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.

8th October 2019, 08:04 PM	#577
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger ftfy No, it was right the first time. Democrats in the House keep slowly plodding through the motions, each time pretending that this time, THIS time, their chamber will be shown the respect it deserves. If they understood that Trump is going to block everything, they'd have had a subpoena in hand for what's his name's deposition. You're not allowed to testify now? Okay, here's some paperwork, we order you to testify... now. The Trump administration has obstructed and intimidated every single witness so far. There is every indication they will continue to do so, even with subpoenas, even with impeachment. They need to understand that and plan for it, not simply act outraged every time Lucy pulls the football away and back up for another run at it.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,012

8th October 2019, 08:13 PM	#578
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,307	The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally. That will get him to cooperate.

8th October 2019, 08:18 PM	#579
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,923	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally. That will get him to cooperate. No, they should hold them in contempt, arrest them and fine them.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

8th October 2019, 08:19 PM	#580
blutoski Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,369	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza The House Committees should hold uncooperating witnesses in contempt, fine them $5,000 a day and send the bill to Trump, personally. That will get him to cooperate. Why would he care about this bill? His SOP is to decree that he doesn't have to pay for things like the little people do.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

8th October 2019, 08:23 PM	#581
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,307	Originally Posted by blutoski Why would he care about this bill? His SOP is to decree that he doesn't have to pay for things like the little people do. Then they can start repossessing stuff, starting with his pile of prescription drugs.

9th October 2019, 04:23 AM	#582
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,200	Or his house

9th October 2019, 04:25 AM	#583
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,307	Originally Posted by Delvo Or his house you sure he's got a house? Or even an apartment? I think the banks would have first dibs.

9th October 2019, 07:36 AM	#584
slyjoe Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 2,536	Originally Posted by acbytesla No, they should hold them in contempt, arrest them and fine them. Barr and Wilbur Ross are already in contempt.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

9th October 2019, 07:38 AM	#585
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,809	Originally Posted by slyjoe Barr and Wilbur Ross are already in contempt. They're in contempt in the same way a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

9th October 2019, 07:40 AM	#586
slyjoe Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 2,536	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue They're in contempt in the same way a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it makes a sound. Unfortunately true. My understanding, limited as it is, is that Congress would have to take them to court and have a judge tell them (Barr and Ross) to comply with the subpoena. Then, when they don't, the judge can determine they are in contempt of COURT, then penalties can be applied. One to 12 months in jail and/or up to $100,000. I don't know if Congress has taken the contempt citation to court yet.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade Last edited by slyjoe; 9th October 2019 at 07:41 AM.

9th October 2019, 08:48 AM	#587
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 16,825	Originally Posted by slyjoe Unfortunately true. My understanding, limited as it is, is that Congress would have to take them to court and have a judge tell them (Barr and Ross) to comply with the subpoena. Then, when they don't, the judge can determine they are in contempt of COURT, then penalties can be applied. One to 12 months in jail and/or up to $100,000. I don't know if Congress has taken the contempt citation to court yet. Actually, I think Congress has the ability to enforce subpoenas, outside of the courts. From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena. ... Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation). If that's true, then Congress certainly has the authority to "play hardball"... to issue subpoenas and if Trump or his minions fail to respond, to have them arrested. (I will of course defer to anyone with more legal expertise than myself.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

9th October 2019, 08:56 AM	#588
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,923	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Actually, I think Congress has the ability to enforce subpoenas, outside of the courts. From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress Under that ruling, courts generally do not hear motions to quash Congressional subpoenas; even when executive branch officials refuse to comply, courts tend to rule that such matters are "political questions" unsuitable for judicial remedy. In fact, many legal rights usually associated with a judicial subpoena do not apply to a Congressional subpoena. ... Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment, imprisonment for coercion, or release from the contempt citation). If that's true, then Congress certainly has the authority to "play hardball"... to issue subpoenas and if Trump or his minions fail to respond, to have them arrested. (I will of course defer to anyone with more legal expertise than myself.) You pretty much nailed it. Journey v Mackracken 294 U.S. 125 (1935)
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th October 2019, 09:13 AM	#589
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,530	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Democrats to subpoena Gordon Sondland, after the State Department blocked his voluntary testimony Sondland had interacted directly with Trump around the time of the Ukraine phone call, and was the man who told Ron Johnson that the phone call had involved quid pro quo. This is how Trump responded on twitter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60708808486914 What I love about this is the way Trump refuses to let Sondland testify under oath at the same time he uses the unsworn testimony of his "tweet" (actually a text message Sondland sent Taylor- the message that is at the center of the question)- he'll use the message to proclaim his innocence but refuse to let anyone ask questions about it. In Trump-land, you can eat your cake and have it too.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

9th October 2019, 09:24 AM	#590
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,440	Originally Posted by DkCreative Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything. Why? The Trumpettes made up lies about Clinton from whole cloth.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

9th October 2019, 09:30 AM	#591
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,746	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy No, it was right the first time. Democrats in the House keep slowly plodding through the motions, each time pretending that this time, THIS time, their chamber will be shown the respect it deserves. If they understood that Trump is going to block everything, they'd have had a subpoena in hand for what's his name's deposition. You're not allowed to testify now? Okay, here's some paperwork, we order you to testify... now. The Trump administration has obstructed and intimidated every single witness so far. There is every indication they will continue to do so, even with subpoenas, even with impeachment. They need to understand that and plan for it, not simply act outraged every time Lucy pulls the football away and back up for another run at it. No, I had it right. Just because Trump is huffing and puffing and making up fake talking points like an imaginary rule the whole House has to vote before proceeding with an Impeachment, and trying to gaslight his base doesn't mean ****. The longer Trump drags it out, the closer to the election it gets and the more nervous the Senate Republicans are getting. Why you think the Democrats aren't going to write up Articles of Impeachment because Trump is huffing and puffing is beyond me. Keep in mind Trump appears successful while he fails at everything given enough time. He's failing at being POTUS and that's par for the course.
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.

9th October 2019, 09:36 AM	#592
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,746	Originally Posted by DkCreative Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything. Trump? Come on, he constantly spews lies about people and everything else. And risk everything?
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.

9th October 2019, 09:45 AM	#593
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 27,923	Originally Posted by turingtest What I love about this is the way Trump refuses to let Sondland testify under oath at the same time he uses the unsworn testimony of his "tweet" (actually a text message Sondland sent Taylor- the message that is at the center of the question)- he'll use the message to proclaim his innocence but refuse to let anyone ask questions about it. In Trump-land, you can eat your cake and have it too. It's not just one message, it is a series of messages and how the series shows a clear consciousness of guilt. It is how Sondland broke off his text conversation and resumed it 5 hours later with a message with an entorely different tone. A text that looks like was written by a lawyer. Why did Sondland break off the conversation and call the President? Trump keeps touting that text while ignoring the other texts. It appears as if Sondland was conspiring with the President and others to get their stories straight.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

9th October 2019, 09:46 AM	#594
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,092	Originally Posted by DkCreative Does anyone know what kind of dirt they were looking for? Obviously they had to have a hunch of something before risking everything. Yep, congratulations, that's exactly what you're supposed to assume, just like all those crimes detailed in Hillary's email.

9th October 2019, 09:48 AM	#595
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,746	I channel-surfed past the 700 Club this morning and saw Pat Robertson repeating the GOP/Trump talking point that the whole House (as opposed to a committee) has to vote before starting the Impeachment investigation. Typical of these liars, he claimed he talked to "two legal scholars" that agree with him. His audience I'm sure just eats those lies up. I guess God has forgiven Trump's mistake of withdrawing from Syria.
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.