[Merged] I killed Duality and Uncertainty for a Theory of Everything - Page 60

steenkh · 15th February 2020, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe

Everything you have said has been completely useless and unhelpful.

Oh, the irony ...

pittsburghjoe · 15th February 2020, 08:05 AM

The answer seems to be that the wave function was never involved. If a particle is going to be physical, it will be so from start to finish. A classical state.

Little 10 Toes · 15th February 2020, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe

The answer seems to be that ~~the wave function~~ math was never involved.

FTFY.

pittsburghjoe · 15th February 2020, 09:04 AM

Did you read this? http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2318

https://imgur.com/yBUX2DS

https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/classical+state

pittsburghjoe · 15th February 2020, 09:29 AM

or is duality a Density Matrix? (mixed states)

https://imgur.com/NYrW0KS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Densit...time_evolution

pittsburghjoe · 15th February 2020, 12:45 PM

It is either a particle Or a wave, not both at the same time. The quantum field does still have the power to make it ageless and wobble when a particle. Duality is dead! Look at the title of this thread

Little 10 Toes · 15th February 2020, 11:03 PM

Sorry, but I'd rather look at the evidence.

Trebuchet · 16th February 2020, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes

Sorry, but I'd rather look at the evidence.

Looks like Joe won't be able to present you with any. Although he's just had a sockpuppet banned at CQ so we might see him here again.

Wolrab · 16th February 2020, 12:39 PM

Dammit. He almost had me convinced that uneducated proclamations were better than science and math.

Steve · 16th February 2020, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Looks like Joe won't be able to present you with any. Although he's just had a sockpuppet banned at CQ so we might see him here again.

Shouldn’t have too much trouble identifying him.

Reality Check · 16th February 2020, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe

Nope, there are cases for it to only be a wave.....

17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: Usual lies about the double slit experiment and what he wrote.

His last delusion was "Duality at all stages of a particles life is a misconception." This is obviously a ignorant delusion because no experiment that does that. what we have is the experimental fact that whenever a double slit experiment is done wave/particle duality is seen. That covers all of the "stages of a particles life" - emission, flight, and absorption.

Next:
17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "The answer seems to be that the wave function was never involved." insanity .
A wave function in quantum physics is a mathematical description of the quantum state of an isolated quantum system.

17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "Did you read this?" idiocy linking to one of his posts of deluded gibberish, stupidity of an irrelevant quantum computing image and an irrelevant classical state page.

17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "or is duality a Density Matrix? (mixed states)" insanity.
Insane because Google and Wikipedia exist. Wave–particle duality. Density matrix

17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "It is either a particle Or a wave, not both at the same time. ..." lie and gibberish.
A point of the double slit experiment (especially single particle) is that the particles act as both waves and particles depending on the measurements taken. No which-path information (which slit) = waves. Measure which-path information and the same particles act as particles!
Another example is the electrons in atoms. They have the properties of quantum particles - mass, charge, spin. But their location has the same electrons acting as waves.

Reality Check · 16th February 2020, 03:34 PM

450 items of ignorance, fantasy, delusion, by pittsburghjoe since 4 September 2019

14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: A demented "Do we have proof decohered condenced wave packets are still waves?" question.
14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: Lies about my posts which are useful and helpful.
14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: The "wave is not a wave" insanity for a wave rather than a wave packet.
14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: Usual ignorant delusion about wave-particle duality.
Usual lies about the double slit experiment, etc. (5 items)

Crossbow · 16th February 2020, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe

The Observer Effect

The unobserved quantum realm doesn't care about time or distance so the order goes something like this:

quantum field excitation of a new particle is about to happen
it gets assigned a path in the quantum field
if the path contains a spacetime enactor (a detector), it swaps the particle to physical
the particle or wave is sent via the quantum field if it's a wave / spacetime if physical

Uncertainty

Delta x Delta p = h-bar/2

There isn't a problem with position and momentum when the object is physical and not a quantum wave. The Uncertainty Principle is for waves.

Duality isn't a thing anymore. You may think you have evidence of a particle acting as a wave at the same time ..but you don't. You are assuming they are both at the same time because you are not taking observation into account. You wouldn't catch a quantum wave being a wave before it went through a detector (that it was moving towards). The particle is likely pre-set to be physical or a wave before it starts moving. Observation gives one type of result ..a physical one. (unless you messing around with polarizers) .

They key to killing duality is pointing out that the final panel of an experiment doesn't count as observation. When you say you can measure wave-like properties, it is derived from that final panel. If quantum observation doesn't show wave-like properties, duality at the same time falls apart. Quantum observation is only for detectors in the path of a particle that allows the particle to continue on.

People say uncertainty applies to physical objects because you peg an electron with a photon so its momentum changes ..well, duh, two objects just hit each other.

You can be certain that the particle in question will be physical if you place anything that will acknowledge its existence while it propagates on its path. That's what observation is, acknowledging a particle while it's moving from a to b. The delayed choice quantum eraser shows us that the entire life of both entangled particles is known. The first particle knows if the partner will ever be observed while in flight. Time in flight is not a factor for the state a particle will be from start to finish.

The realms of the Observed vs Unobserved

This post predicts what happens when Spacetime gets involved with unobserved quantum waves from the act of observation.

<SNIP> for rule 4
Please do not post material that is available elsewhere.

See here, for example.

Posted By:zooterkin

Good!

That stupid, idiotic, lying troll who called himself 'pittsburghjoe' finally managed to get himself banned from the Forum.

It is always so nice when POS individuals like him finally get themselves flushed.

tusenfem · 17th February 2020, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

Good!

That stupid, idiotic, lying troll who called himself 'pittsburghjoe' finally managed to get himself banned from the Forum.

It is always so nice when POS individuals like him finally get themselves flushed.

Oh, he will be back, we killed at least 4 sock puppets of his at CQ.

Little 10 Toes · 17th February 2020, 06:19 PM

Four? Sheeze, what a "quote" winner "unquote".

pzkpfw · 17th February 2020, 09:05 PM

He's had more than 4 at scienceforums.net; not always banned, he sometimes just goes away for a bit then comes back with a new name and pretends his ideas are fresh.

Pretty sure this is his latest there: ht tps://ww w.scienceforums.net/topic/121329-i-need-help-with-math-for-my-attempt-at-an-interpreation/

Also seen him at naked scientists (which is very loosely moderated) and scienceforums.com (which is pretty dire, but where he's mostly ignored). The cranks are sure of their ideas, so keep searching for support, rather than learning.

tusenfem · 18th February 2020, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

He's had more than 4 at scienceforums.net; not always banned, he sometimes just goes away for a bit then comes back with a new name and pretends his ideas are fresh.

Pretty sure this is his latest there: ht tps://ww w.scienceforums.net/topic/121329-i-need-help-with-math-for-my-attempt-at-an-interpreation/

Also seen him at naked scientists (which is very loosely moderated) and scienceforums.com (which is pretty dire, but where he's mostly ignored). The cranks are sure of their ideas, so keep searching for support, rather than learning.

Oh my, that reads very familiarly ...

hecd2 · 18th February 2020, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

He's had more than 4 at scienceforums.net; not always banned, he sometimes just goes away for a bit then comes back with a new name and pretends his ideas are fresh.

Pretty sure this is his latest there: ht tps://ww w.scienceforums.net/topic/121329-i-need-help-with-math-for-my-attempt-at-an-interpreation/

Actually I think this is him https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/...upported-math/

pzkpfw · 18th February 2020, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by hecd2

Actually I think this is him ...

"actually"?

He's lots of people.

(It seems both of those recent socks have been removed from there.)

WhatRoughBeast · 26th February 2020, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe

It is either a particle Or a wave, not both at the same time. The quantum field does still have the power to make it ageless and wobble when a particle. Duality is dead! Look at the title of this thread

This is, admittedly, flogging a dead horse, or at least a banned one, but I found the confusion shown here to be instructive.

It's true that a photon, or any other object, is not "both at the same time". Er, well, not exactly. Any such object is what it is, and depending on how you interact with it, can behave either like a wave or a particle,and sometimes like both. The distinction is not as clear and absolute as people like Joe would like to think.

Take an electron, for example. Clearly a particle, right? Except that, at the right scale, it can simultaneously behave like both a wave and a particle. Aim a beam of electrons at a tilted single-crystal nickle surface, and it scatters just like a wave does on a diffraction grating. So it's a wave. But each electron can be detected discretely, so it's a particle.

It's amazing how the particle/wave duality wars break out in obscure corners of the field. You'd think that the last 50 years never happened.

15th February 2020, 02:22 AM	#2361
steenkh Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 6,104	Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe Everything you have said has been completely useless and unhelpful. Oh, the irony ...
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

15th February 2020, 08:05 AM	#2362
pittsburghjoe Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: BHole Posts: 935	The answer seems to be that the wave function was never involved. If a particle is going to be physical, it will be so from start to finish. A classical state.
	Last edited by pittsburghjoe; 15th February 2020 at 09:20 AM.

15th February 2020, 09:02 AM	#2363
Little 10 Toes Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,287	Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe The answer seems to be that ~~the wave function~~ math was never involved. FTFY.
	__________________ I'm an "intellectual giant, with access to wilkipedia [sic]" "I believe in some ways; communicating with afterlife is easier than communicating with me." -Tim4848 who said he would no longer post here, twice in fact, but he did.

15th February 2020, 09:04 AM	#2364
pittsburghjoe Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: BHole Posts: 935	Did you read this? http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2318 https://imgur.com/yBUX2DS https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/classical+state
	Last edited by pittsburghjoe; 15th February 2020 at 09:12 AM.

15th February 2020, 09:29 AM	#2365
pittsburghjoe Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: BHole Posts: 935	or is duality a Density Matrix? (mixed states) https://imgur.com/NYrW0KS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Densit...time_evolution
	Last edited by pittsburghjoe; 15th February 2020 at 09:48 AM.

15th February 2020, 12:45 PM	#2366
pittsburghjoe Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: BHole Posts: 935	It is either a particle Or a wave, not both at the same time. The quantum field does still have the power to make it ageless and wobble when a particle. Duality is dead! Look at the title of this thread

15th February 2020, 11:03 PM	#2367
Little 10 Toes Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,287	Sorry, but I'd rather look at the evidence.
	__________________ I'm an "intellectual giant, with access to wilkipedia [sic]" "I believe in some ways; communicating with afterlife is easier than communicating with me." -Tim4848 who said he would no longer post here, twice in fact, but he did.

16th February 2020, 11:55 AM	#2368
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,592	Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes Sorry, but I'd rather look at the evidence. Looks like Joe won't be able to present you with any. Although he's just had a sockpuppet banned at CQ so we might see him here again.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

16th February 2020, 12:39 PM	#2369
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,747	Dammit. He almost had me convinced that uneducated proclamations were better than science and math.
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,747	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

16th February 2020, 12:52 PM	#2370
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 8,006	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Looks like Joe won't be able to present you with any. Although he's just had a sockpuppet banned at CQ so we might see him here again. Shouldn’t have too much trouble identifying him.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

16th February 2020, 03:31 PM	#2371
Reality Check Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 27,616	Usual lies about the double slit experiment, etc. Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe Nope, there are cases for it to only be a wave..... 17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: Usual lies about the double slit experiment and what he wrote. His last delusion was "Duality at all stages of a particles life is a misconception." This is obviously a ignorant delusion because no experiment that does that. what we have is the experimental fact that whenever a double slit experiment is done wave/particle duality is seen. That covers all of the "stages of a particles life" - emission, flight, and absorption. Next: 17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "The answer seems to be that the wave function was never involved." insanity . A wave function in quantum physics is a mathematical description of the quantum state of an isolated quantum system. 17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "Did you read this?" idiocy linking to one of his posts of deluded gibberish, stupidity of an irrelevant quantum computing image and an irrelevant classical state page. 17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "or is duality a Density Matrix? (mixed states)" insanity. Insane because Google and Wikipedia exist. Wave–particle duality. Density matrix 17 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: "It is either a particle Or a wave, not both at the same time. ..." lie and gibberish. A point of the double slit experiment (especially single particle) is that the particles act as both waves and particles depending on the measurements taken. No which-path information (which slit) = waves. Measure which-path information and the same particles act as particles! Another example is the electrons in atoms. They have the properties of quantum particles - mass, charge, spin. But their location has the same electrons acting as waves.
	__________________ NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist!

16th February 2020, 03:34 PM	#2372
Reality Check Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 27,616	459 items of ignorance, fantasy, delusion, by pittsburghjoe since 4 September 2019 450 items of ignorance, fantasy, delusion, by pittsburghjoe since 4 September 2019 14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: A demented "Do we have proof decohered condenced wave packets are still waves?" question. 14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: Lies about my posts which are useful and helpful. 14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: The "wave is not a wave" insanity for a wave rather than a wave packet. 14 February 2020 pittsburghjoe: Usual ignorant delusion about wave-particle duality. Usual lies about the double slit experiment, etc. (5 items)
	__________________ NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist!

17th February 2020, 05:10 AM	#2374
tusenfem Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,911	Originally Posted by Crossbow Good! That stupid, idiotic, lying troll who called himself 'pittsburghjoe' finally managed to get himself banned from the Forum. It is always so nice when POS individuals like him finally get themselves flushed. Oh, he will be back, we killed at least 4 sock puppets of his at CQ.
tusenfem Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,911	__________________ Scientific progress goes BOINK -- Calvin & Hobbes twitter: @tusenfem -- Super Duper Space Plasma Physicist

17th February 2020, 06:19 PM	#2375
Little 10 Toes Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,287	Four? Sheeze, what a "quote" winner "unquote".
	__________________ I'm an "intellectual giant, with access to wilkipedia [sic]" "I believe in some ways; communicating with afterlife is easier than communicating with me." -Tim4848 who said he would no longer post here, twice in fact, but he did.

17th February 2020, 09:05 PM	#2376
pzkpfw New Blood Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 24	He's had more than 4 at scienceforums.net; not always banned, he sometimes just goes away for a bit then comes back with a new name and pretends his ideas are fresh. Pretty sure this is his latest there: ht tps://ww w.scienceforums.net/topic/121329-i-need-help-with-math-for-my-attempt-at-an-interpreation/ Also seen him at naked scientists (which is very loosely moderated) and scienceforums.com (which is pretty dire, but where he's mostly ignored). The cranks are sure of their ideas, so keep searching for support, rather than learning.
pzkpfw New Blood Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 24

18th February 2020, 01:40 AM	#2377
tusenfem Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,911	Originally Posted by pzkpfw He's had more than 4 at scienceforums.net; not always banned, he sometimes just goes away for a bit then comes back with a new name and pretends his ideas are fresh. Pretty sure this is his latest there: ht tps://ww w.scienceforums.net/topic/121329-i-need-help-with-math-for-my-attempt-at-an-interpreation/ Also seen him at naked scientists (which is very loosely moderated) and scienceforums.com (which is pretty dire, but where he's mostly ignored). The cranks are sure of their ideas, so keep searching for support, rather than learning. Oh my, that reads very familiarly ...
tusenfem Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,911	__________________ Scientific progress goes BOINK -- Calvin & Hobbes twitter: @tusenfem -- Super Duper Space Plasma Physicist

18th February 2020, 09:51 AM	#2378
hecd2 Muse Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 756	Originally Posted by pzkpfw He's had more than 4 at scienceforums.net; not always banned, he sometimes just goes away for a bit then comes back with a new name and pretends his ideas are fresh. Pretty sure this is his latest there: ht tps://ww w.scienceforums.net/topic/121329-i-need-help-with-math-for-my-attempt-at-an-interpreation/ Actually I think this is him https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/...upported-math/
hecd2 Muse Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 756

18th February 2020, 07:45 PM	#2379
pzkpfw New Blood Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 24	Originally Posted by hecd2 Actually I think this is him ... "actually"? He's lots of people. (It seems both of those recent socks have been removed from there.)
pzkpfw New Blood Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 24	Last edited by pzkpfw; 18th February 2020 at 07:53 PM.

26th February 2020, 06:35 PM	#2380
WhatRoughBeast Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,447	Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe It is either a particle Or a wave, not both at the same time. The quantum field does still have the power to make it ageless and wobble when a particle. Duality is dead! Look at the title of this thread This is, admittedly, flogging a dead horse, or at least a banned one, but I found the confusion shown here to be instructive. It's true that a photon, or any other object, is not "both at the same time". Er, well, not exactly. Any such object is what it is, and depending on how you interact with it, can behave either like a wave or a particle,and sometimes like both. The distinction is not as clear and absolute as people like Joe would like to think. Take an electron, for example. Clearly a particle, right? Except that, at the right scale, it can simultaneously behave like both a wave and a particle. Aim a beam of electrons at a tilted single-crystal nickle surface, and it scatters just like a wave does on a diffraction grating. So it's a wave. But each electron can be detected discretely, so it's a particle. It's amazing how the particle/wave duality wars break out in obscure corners of the field. You'd think that the last 50 years never happened.