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Old 25th August 2015, 09:07 AM   #81
baron
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Try again. That's not any official source, but rather your anonymous "former air show promoter."

The Mail quoted an actual official source:

"An Royal Air Force source confirmed to MailOnline that Shoreham would be unsuitable for a Red Arrow display.

He said: 'It is not a large enough space for the Red Arrows. An aircraft like the Hunter doesn't need a large space. If it was big enough we would not refuse.' "

He's talking about the area needed to perform a multi-aircraft display in, as opposes to a single aircraft. It's not rocket science.



Lots of people have been quoted about the proficiency of the pilot, others have questioned what he did on the day. I also mentioned falling asleep at the wheel, but obviously you prefer to jump on the more extreme alternative. The bottom line is that these are the first ground fatalities at a UK airshow for 63 years, which in terms of risk is absolutely minuscule. It's a tragedy for those actually killed and their families, but they pale into comparison with everyday risks that you don't noticed because your normalised to them.
Well of course, I never suggested that the risk a person will be killed by a plane crashing on top of them is anything other than minuscule, and I'm usually the one to point out how badly people in general assess risk. What I am saying, and have said all the way through this thread, is that I believe the regulations should be looked at again in terms of flying over areas of high population density, and that includes main roads and motorways. I really don't see the problem.
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Old 25th August 2015, 09:49 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Well of course, I never suggested that the risk a person will be killed by a plane crashing on top of them is anything other than minuscule, and I'm usually the one to point out how badly people in general assess risk. What I am saying, and have said all the way through this thread, is that I believe the regulations should be looked at again in terms of flying over areas of high population density, and that includes main roads and motorways. I really don't see the problem.
A bit of straw there, given that "areas of high population density" are already excluded - that's on reason why air displays at RAF Hendon didn't resume after the War.

We have yet to see whether any current rules regarding the proximity of the road were breached or not, at least in terms of what the pilot may or may not have done. I think we can take it as given that the airshow generally met CAA rules, otherwise it wouldn't have taken place in the first place.
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Old 25th August 2015, 02:21 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I believe that the manoeuvre would not have been allowed at a UK airshow in light of restrictions first introduced after the 1952 Farnborough crash.
The TV news just had an interview with a man who, as a boy, witnessed the Farnborough crash, and was then at the one at Shoreham.
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Old 25th August 2015, 06:02 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
Right, and if the plane was designed to have an ejection system it is not a simple matter to remove it. You would also risk rendering the aircraft no longer airworthy as those systems have to be operable in order for the aircraft to be certified to fly.
Actually the FAA usually requires the seat to be deactivated before they will certify to fly.
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Old 25th August 2015, 06:11 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
As opposed to the false equivalence of other forms of death that are always trotted out.

I am sure the two footballers on their way to a match were expecting to be hit by someone playing around in an old jet. We accept the risks of driving on roads as there is a distinct benefit to ourselves. Being hit by an old airoplane when the man who was showing off for people got it wrong isn't usually a factor in a decision to drive somewhere.
Perhaps feetball should be a non-spectator sport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
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Old 26th August 2015, 03:01 AM   #86
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Being as Shoreham is where I live and work, this is all a bit weird, I drive that road nearly every day.

Was supposed to go to the show on Sunday, shan't be asking for my money back.

Already spoken to one colleague who was one chance event away from being landed on.

The odd thing was, I didn't hear the crash, just checked the BBC website when I couldn't hear any more planes going overhead.
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Old 26th August 2015, 03:02 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Actually the FAA usually requires the seat to be deactivated before they will certify to fly.
Are you sure? International Jets certainly seem to sell a lot of Aero Vodochody L39C Albatros with 'hot' seats
http://www.internationaljets.com/jetaircraft.html
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Old 26th August 2015, 04:47 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Are you sure? International Jets certainly seem to sell a lot of Aero Vodochody L39C Albatros with 'hot' seats
http://www.internationaljets.com/jetaircraft.html
Probably for non-US buyers.
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Old 28th August 2015, 02:14 AM   #89
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BBC News: Shoreham air crash - How will it affect other shows?

"Last weekend's fatal crash at an air show at Shoreham in southern England has raised questions about aircraft safety, and how such a tragic event could best be prevented in future.

There are almost 200 air shows and displays taking place across the UK this year and they come only second to football in popularity as a paid spectator sport - last year five million of us paid to see an air show.

As air crash investigators now set about reconstructing the sequence of events at Shoreham, the issue facing the air display circuit is how this crash will affect future shows."

The number of 200 appears to be an increase, given that on the news last night it said there were 104 shows last year, generating 79 million in revenue.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 02:30 AM   #90
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A small update, the inquest is due to open today and will then be adjourned while the AAIB conducts it's investigations. A preliminary report from the AAIB is due in the next few days. The pilot is still in a critical but stable condition.
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Old 26th January 2016, 05:58 AM   #91
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Unsurprisingly, safety measures at UK air shows will be tightened.

Quote:
Tony Rapson, the CAA's head of general aviation, said the cause of the Shoreham crash was still not known but from this year all air shows would have tighter requirements
...
The CAA is enhancing requirements for permissions to hold a display; training and checks for people overseeing displays; requirements relating to the experience, skill and health of display pilots; and the role of examiners who oversee display pilots.

Measures taken in the aftermath of Shoreham will also remain in place - they saw all Hawker Hunter jets grounded, ex-military jets restricted to fly-pasts over land and air shows subject to enhanced risk assessments.
...
[Mr Rapson] said this year would see a move towards formal training for flying display directors who would either have to attend a pre-season symposium or an individual briefing.

From 2017, a formal two-day course will be in place.
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Old 8th March 2019, 03:10 PM   #92
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BBC News: Shoreham Airshow crash pilot acquitted over deaths

"The pilot of a jet that crashed at the Shoreham Airshow killing 11 men has been found not guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence.

Andrew Hill's ex-military jet exploded in a fireball on the A27 in Sussex on 22 August 2015.

The former RAF pilot, 54, denied deliberately beginning a loop manoeuvre despite flying too low and too slowly.

Karim Khalil QC, defending, argued Mr Hill had been suffering from "cognitive impairment" when the jet crashed.

Mr Hill, from Sandon, near Buntingford, Hertfordshire, was also formally acquitted of a count - that was not put in front of the jury - of negligently or recklessly endangering the safety of an aircraft.

The Old Bailey jury deliberated for seven hours over three days and there were gasps from the families in the courtroom with many in tears as the verdicts were read out."

Interesting that footage has now been released of the jet at low level above the road almost up to the point of crashing (impact presumably captured but not made public).

Last edited by Information Analyst; 8th March 2019 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:34 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The additional safety measures and negative publicity from the Shoreham crash are having an effect on other shows. Farnborough is scrapping its public weekend from 2020, in part due to the Shoreham crash:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-47463443

Quote:
The Farnborough International Airshow will no longer host a public weekend after "negative and vitriolic" feedback for displays, it has been announced.

Organisers said the Shoreham air crash had "expedited" the decision, which comes amid a "dwindling number" of spectators.

A spokeswoman said organisers could "no longer provide an airshow the public want".
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