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Old 9th March 2019, 07:38 PM   #1
Ranb
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Kids With Guns on Social Media

Kids photographing guns and posting those pics on social media may (not likely) become illegal in Florida.

I suppose it is an image of one of the Columbine shooters like this that the bill sponsor intends to prohibit.
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-photo/2776538

But it specifically prohibits a photo like this one if taken by a child and posted online.
http://time.com/longform/high-school-shooting-teams/

The bill; http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...illText/__/PDF

Children posting otherwise benign photos to social media would be committing a crime.
Quote:
A minor who posts or publishes a picture of a firearm, a BB gun, an air or a gas-operated gun, or a device displayed to resemble a firearm to a social media page, post, profile, or account that is openly viewable to the public commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
The parent of a child who appears in the offending photo with a gun can be required to attend classes or community service with the child.

Quote:
Any firearm that is possessed or used by a minor in violation of this section shall be promptly seized by a law enforcement officer and disposed of in accordance with s.790.08.
This is unusual. I don't think I've ever read a bill that required prompt action to seize property without due process before. Trump would likely approve as he is not a fan of due process when it comes to taking guns away.

I think this would be a violation of 4th and 5th amendment rights.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 9th March 2019 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:51 PM   #2
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Unfortunately, as usual, it's more important to politicians to appear to be doing something about a problem than it is for them to actually do something about a problem.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:04 AM   #3
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So if a kid goes hunting with his/her dad and poses for a picture with the gun and posts the picture on Facebook, that's a crime? How in the name of the nine circles of hell could that ever pass a First Amendment sniff test?
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:21 AM   #4
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What about toy guns? Shoot 'em?
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
What about toy guns? Shoot 'em?
Well, if it looks like a gun, then it is also bad.
Quote:
A minor who posts or publishes a picture of a .... device displayed to resemble a firearm to a social media page, .... commits a misdemeanor of the first degree


Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
.... How in the name of the nine circles of hell could that ever pass a First Amendment sniff test?
Same way the local sheriff was allowed to deny certain firearm registration to anyone based upon any criteria they desired even after the Supreme court ruled that gun ownership was an individual right. It all depends on how much they actually value a person's rights that are protected by law.

Last edited by Ranb; 10th March 2019 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:09 PM   #6
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Worst crafted law I've seen in a while. The entirety of 790.111(2) has no effect, as it depends on "[posession] of a firearm in violation of this section" but makes no requirements for possession in that section, legal or illegal. It only limits the posting by a minor of a offending picture. But, adults can still publish the identical pictures, so even that is potentially minimal (as posting by a minor is normally considered subject to the permission of an adult in the terms of service for social media accounts).

Subsection (3) fails for the same reason: there is no definition if 'illegal possession', only 'illegal posting'.

Subsections (4) and (5) are rendered moot as a result of the above, as is the alteration of 790.174(2).

This shouldn't have made it past a first year law student's review
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Old 12th March 2019, 05:26 AM   #7
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I was fascinated with weapons of all kinds as a kid, and had “social media” existed back then I would have almost certainly posted pics of my favorite devices.

I used to draw them as well.... Probably be sent off to the psychiatrist these days.
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Old 12th March 2019, 05:29 AM   #8
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I'm struggling to see how this would survive a 1A challenge. Regardless of your political beliefs, passing laws that anyone should know will not survive court review is acting in bad faith as a legislator.
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Well, if it looks like a gun, then it is also bad.





Same way the local sheriff was allowed to deny certain firearm registration to anyone based upon any criteria they desired even after the Supreme court ruled that gun ownership was an individual right. It all depends on how much they actually value a person's rights that are protected by law.
Apples and oranges. You're talking about a situation where an applicant could, if he wanted, seek judicial relief. The above is a crime which requires in all cases the involvement of judges and lawyers who would have to go on record and be subject to appellate review on the the constitutionality of the law.
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Old 13th March 2019, 05:08 AM   #10
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Seems to be a classic case of missing the problem and striking out wildly at anything to be appear to be doing something.
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Old 13th March 2019, 09:10 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Apples and oranges. You're talking about a situation where an applicant could, if he wanted, seek judicial relief.
Are you referring to CLEO refusal of a signature on a registration (tax stamp) application? If so, as far as I know relief was sought in the past and always refused.
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Old 14th March 2019, 01:29 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Seems to be a classic case of missing the problem and striking out wildly at anything to be appear to be doing something.
That is what Democrats call "progress". See also "gun control"
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Old 14th March 2019, 01:50 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
So if a kid goes hunting with his/her dad and poses for a picture with the gun and posts the picture on Facebook, that's a crime? How in the name of the nine circles of hell could that ever pass a First Amendment sniff test?
Hell, you could declare "A Christmas Story" pornography because of the scenes with Ralphie and his Red Ryder BB Gun....
I could not think of a more idiotic law, or one that going to be shot down(no joke intended) in courts more quickly.
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:01 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hell, you could declare "A Christmas Story" pornography because of the scenes with Ralphie and his Red Ryder BB Gun....

I could not think of a more idiotic law, or one that going to be shot down(no joke intended) in courts more quickly.
(Weakling. Intend your jokes, people.)
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:35 PM   #15
Craig4
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hell, you could declare "A Christmas Story" pornography because of the scenes with Ralphie and his Red Ryder BB Gun....
I could not think of a more idiotic law, or one that going to be shot down(no joke intended) in courts more quickly.
There are pictures of me, in total misery posing with the shotguns, my dad, uncles/cousins, a curious absence of dead waterfowl and the dogs duck hunting that would violate this law if they had ever made it to social media.
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Are you referring to CLEO refusal of a signature on a registration (tax stamp) application? If so, as far as I know relief was sought in the past and always refused.
But that's still an entirely civil matter where a judge rules on if the officer followed the law under a "may issue law". Even Heller allows for the regulation of who can have a firearm. This law would require a judge to determine that the mere presence of a firearm in a picture makes that speech a crime (that pictures, art and photography are speech is well established and need not detain us here).
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:52 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
That is what Democrats call "progress". See also "gun control"

There's nothing Democratic or Republican about this bill. It's just another in a long series of diversions engaged in by state legislatures rather than, you know, take meaningful action.


ETA: If a day ever goes by where a state congressperson doesn't say something insane, I'll buy a hat and eat it.
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
There's nothing Democratic or Republican about this bill.
Except its sponsor. There's definitely something Democratic or Republican about its sponsor.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:48 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Except its sponsor. There's definitely something Democratic or Republican about its sponsor.

Sponsors. Both the sponsors in the house and the senate are Democrats.

So far, I can't find any information about whether this bill will get a vote or even make it out of committee. The only articles I can find are from gun-rights sites that rage against the bill as though it were going into law tomorrow.

But there's some serious 1st and 4th Amendment problems with this thing. I'm in favor of gun control. As a personal opinion, I don't see why anyone should own one for any reason. Yet even I think this bill is abnormally stupid, wildly counterproductive, and insanely misguided.


ETA: I am not of the opinion that my personal beliefs about guns should become law, be forced on people who disagree, or otherwise restrict ownership of firearms without first being measured by the full weight of our democracy.
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Old 21st March 2019, 09:38 PM   #20
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We are in favor of gun control too.

We advocate strict prohibition, no bears in possession of firearms. Moose, we don't see them as a problem. No manual dexterity there at all.

But kids especially, I was thinking about doing a poll on what age people here thought the kids should start using NATO round calibers. The ISIS child soldiers we and our Sunni Head-Chopper buddies throw at Syria and various African countries - I think they go down to 9 or 10 to deploy in combat so training maybe we're talking age 7 or 8.

But I certainly wouldn't want to start my own kids any earlier than the most conservative opinion here, the person claiming to be the most protective of our children.
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