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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Mueller investigation , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 15th February 2019, 04:44 PM   #41
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
You are correct - I read the post too quickly and misunderstood. My fault.



However, I believe most murders are also prosecuted at the state level.



Interesting article on 10 ways murder becomes a federal crime.



https://www.wklaw.com/10-ways-murder...federal-crime/



I think the "what state is the Oval Office in" has already been answered.
Recently renamed the Pear Shaped Office.
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Old 15th February 2019, 05:02 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
I mostly just lurk here for entertainment purposes but I can't figure something out:

On the one hand, Trump is an out of control idiot/crazy person who acts solely on impulse without thinking things through, right?

Yet at the same time he's also some sort of criminal mastermind who's been engaged in all sorts of criminal activity like money laundering or whatever for decades and being Putin's bitch without ever leaving a shred of legally incriminating evidence behind.

I'm sorry but these two scenarios simply do not seem at all congruous to me.
I am in the group who thinks he is not a criminal mastermind. No idea how big this group is.

He is a grifter who grasps at the closest bauble, presumably behaviour he learnt as a child and never grew out of.

This results in him getting caught up in all kinds of monumental cock ups, like Russia, casinos, Airlines, universities, unpaid debts, misappropriated finds. All of them involve shady and unethical business practices. All of them involve a merry band of like minded grifters who also have their own agenda.

Now that he is president what were ordinary every day white collar crimes that law enforcers don't treat the same way as violent crime, his regular way of dealing with life takes on much more importance.

He is dealing with enemies of the state, rogue nuclear powers and dragging the name of the USA through the mud. He is treating long time allies with contempt. He even ripped off his inauguration.
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Old 15th February 2019, 05:09 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Yeah, that lack of a shred of evidence is sure interesting when his henchmen have already been convicted with it.
My understanding is that the convictions so far have been for pretty much anything other than actually helping the Russians influence the election.
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Old 15th February 2019, 05:21 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My understanding is that the convictions so far have been for pretty much anything other than actually helping the Russians influence the election.
Mueller is playing his cards close to his chest. Investigations often have information they don't reveal till they have to, which can be never.
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Old 15th February 2019, 05:53 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Mueller is playing his cards close to his chest. Investigations often have information they don't reveal till they have to, which can be never.
Sure. I understand and accept that. But Trebuchet says Trump's "henchmen" have already been convicted of stuff that you're saying Mueller hasn't even disclosed yet. Trebuchet is even using these convictions as evidence that Trump has done the things he's accused of.

So which is it? And why are you taking me to task, for what is actually Trebuchet's claim?

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Old 15th February 2019, 06:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure. I understand and accept that. But Trebuchet says Trump's "henchmen" have already been convicted of stuff that you're saying Mueller hasn't even disclosed yet. Trebuchet's is even using these convictions as evidence that Trump has done the things he's accused of.

So which is it? And why are you taking me to task, for what is actually Trebuchet's claim.
Those who have made deals get to plead to lesser crimes that don't give away the main game.

As to what Trump is guilty of, I have made no decision yet. He is a grifter who surrounds himself with like minded low life. His long history of white collar crime and shady business practices indicates to me he is guilty something.

He got off to a good start ripping off his own inauguration event so I don't expect anything has changed. He is so stupid he probably had no idea how the Russians were using him.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:00 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Sarah Huckabee Sanders was interviewed as part of the Mueller investigation...

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/spec...e-sanders.html
Special counsel Robert Mueller's team has interviewed President Donald Trump's press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders...That interview reportedly occurred in early fall of 2018.

I do wonder in the value of interviewing someone like her, whether Mueller expects to get any valuable information on her, or whether she was interviewed as a way to send a message to Trump.
I pity the people who had to inverview her. Really bad duty.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:10 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Mueller is playing his cards close to his chest. Investigations often have information they don't reveal till they have to, which can be never.
Kinda have to play them close to the chest when you have nothing don't you?

Two yrs now and nothing but procedural mumbo jumbo.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:17 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Those who have made deals get to plead to lesser crimes that don't give away the main game.

As to what Trump is guilty of, I have made no decision yet. He is a grifter who surrounds himself with like minded low life. His long history of white collar crime and shady business practices indicates to me he is guilty something.

He got off to a good start ripping off his own inauguration event so I don't expect anything has changed. He is so stupid he probably had no idea how the Russians were using him.
This doesn't actually address any of my points, nor answer any of my questions.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I pity the people who had to inverview her. Really bad duty.
How so?
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:24 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Kinda have to play them close to the chest when you have nothing don't you?



Two yrs now and nothing but procedural mumbo jumbo.
Convictions and jail terms don't count?
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:31 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Kinda have to play them close to the chest when you have nothing don't you?

Two yrs now and nothing but procedural mumbo jumbo.
Snort.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:37 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Convictions and jail terms don't count?
Count for what?

Has anyone been convicted of paying Russia to influence the election?

Has anyone been convicted of helping Russia influence the election?
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:39 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Snort.
Try not to to let all that rational inquiry spurt out your nose and get all over your keyboard.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:42 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Show me.
This is just a weak attempt to pretend there is no evidence when it is overwhelming.

Open your eyes.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:47 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is just a weak attempt to pretend there is no evidence when it is overwhelming.

Open your eyes. : rolleyes :
"Your Honor, the evidence exonerating my client is overwhelming."

"Show me."

"This is just a weak attempt--"

"The sentence stands. Case closed."
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:15 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Try not to to let all that rational inquiry spurt out your nose and get all over your keyboard.
I know, right? It's hard enough wiping up all the mumbo jumbo.
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:25 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I know, right? It's hard enough wiping up all the mumbo jumbo.
Well played. But he has a point. Process crimes aren't proxies for the crimes actually being investigated.

You're trying to traduce other offenses into proof of the offense you're alleging.
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Convictions and jail terms don't count?
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
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Old 15th February 2019, 08:10 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
Funny how they lied about all those meetings and tried to pretend that they never happened, isn't it? Why did they do that? Just for a laugh?

Oh yeah, why did Trump have all those private meetings with Putin, with no one else allowed to know what was said? Who the hell does something like that if they aren't up to something? Oh right, they were planning a surprise party for, er... something...
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Old 15th February 2019, 08:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
Snort!
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Old 15th February 2019, 08:26 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
If you actually believe this, would you like to tell us why?
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Old 15th February 2019, 08:36 PM   #63
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Hush, all of you. I'm just glad that someone's had the fortitude to say what they think outright instead of dancing around implications so they can't be quoted later.

[ETA] Also,
Originally Posted by Seth Abramson
Just want to reiterate that federal prosecutors are asking a judge to put Trump's Campaign Manager in prison for life

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Old 15th February 2019, 09:02 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.

And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.


Announced by the Mueller investigation: They have hard evidence Stone was in communication with the companies that stole Hillary's and Democrats' data to give to Wikileaks.




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Old 15th February 2019, 09:53 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
That suggests one of two things: Mueller doesn't really have anything or he won't put it in writing.

I don't see how you figure. Oh that's right, Trump keeps saying so.
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Old 15th February 2019, 10:56 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is just a weak attempt to pretend there is no evidence when it is overwhelming.

Open your eyes.
This is just a weak attempt to pretend there is evidence when there is none.

Oh, and make sure you read the conversation closely, so you know what was actually under discussion. We weren’t talking about any criminal behavior.
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Old 15th February 2019, 10:59 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Only Trump would think that using an amendment to the Constitution for exactly it's intended purpose was unconstitutional.
If only it was only Trump. The far right has long since embraced crazy. This is simply yet another one of its manifestations. And... yes, a bunch of right-wingers in right wing media are calling that a coup. As well as, for example, TBD here.

Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
I mostly just lurk here for entertainment purposes but I can't figure something out:

On the one hand, Trump is an out of control idiot/crazy person who acts solely on impulse without thinking things through, right?

Yet at the same time he's also some sort of criminal mastermind who's been engaged in all sorts of criminal activity like money laundering or whatever for decades and being Putin's bitch without ever leaving a shred of legally incriminating evidence behind.

I'm sorry but these two scenarios simply do not seem at all congruous to me.

Not quite, on either count. Trump is fundamentally a con man and, I dare to say, likely a pathological narcissist. Not an out of control idiot/crazy person who acts solely on impulse without thinking things through. We could go more in depth about his faults, but they don't actually equate to that. As for "criminal mastermind who has managed to not get caught," again, not quite. Criminal, yes. Mastermind, not really. "Not get caught," yes and no. Having access to a lot of money and having a lot of criminal friends, some of whom you have working for you specifically to protect you and do the dirtier work actually is a pretty effective way to get away with a lot of crap. There's a number of reasons why he has been involved in an absurd number of court cases about a lot of things, after all. There's also reasons why a number of his businesses have been fined large sums over and over and over for failing to comply with anti-money laundering rules but still don't find it to be worthwhile to actually follow those rules. That he knowingly did a fair bit of business with criminals since early on has been rather well known, for that matter, as well as that a lot of his associates, in general, have been criminals. He's even pretty well admitted such at multiple points. As for no evidence... at last check, Trump is officially an unindicted co-conspirator currently, and that's despite Republicans in Congress engaging in some somewhat amazing shenanigans as they've pointedly tried to protect Trump from any meaningful investigation into numerous huge red flags that they would be screaming their heads off about if Obama or his Administration did those things. Notably more could be said, but... your scenarios need some quite notable changes to be accurate reflections of what's actually being put forth meaningfully.

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Announced by the Mueller investigation: They have hard evidence Stone was in communication with the companies that stole Hillary's and Democrats' data to give to Wikileaks.
Beat me to that. Here's a link to cnn's story on it.
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Old 15th February 2019, 11:18 PM   #68
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Paul Manafort should be jailed for 19-24 years - Mueller

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47263226

"On Friday, a court document filed by Mr Mueller's office said it agreed with a US Department of Justice calculation that Manafort should face between 19 and 24 years in prison and a fine of between $50,000 (£39,000) and $24m."
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Old 15th February 2019, 11:34 PM   #69
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50K to 24M is quite a spread.
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Old 16th February 2019, 12:25 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
if that was true, why does Trump fight tooth and nail to discredit the investigation?
Why doesn't he have an interview with Mueller?
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Old 16th February 2019, 12:26 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Paul Manafort should be jailed for 19-24 years - Mueller

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47263226

"On Friday, a court document filed by Mr Mueller's office said it agreed with a US Department of Justice calculation that Manafort should face between 19 and 24 years in prison and a fine of between $50,000 (£39,000) and $24m."
Now, Manafort has no more use for Trump, since even a Pardon wouldn't stop state investigators from unraveling everything Mueller found out about him.
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Old 16th February 2019, 12:36 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I do wonder in the value of interviewing someone like her, whether Mueller expects to get any valuable information on her, or whether she was interviewed as a way to send a message to Trump.
Seems to me she'd be valuable as an interviewee regardless of whether or not she has any involvement in anything nefarious. If Mueller asks, say, Ivanka Trump "what happened WRT x on date y?" and she says one thing and another person says another, then that's one situation. If he asks the same question and Ivanka says one thing and 20 other people independently say another, then that's a whole different situation.
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Old 16th February 2019, 12:54 AM   #73
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Is Manafort's conviction proof of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia? No. But it is an indicator, given that it's a man who risked life imprisonment to cover up one channel of communication between the Trump campaign and Russia and that's something that the judge - who has seen lots of evidence that is not yet public - says is "at the undisputed core of" the investigation.

Similarly, there's no proof that Trump has laundered money for Russia. But looking at what is known of his financial history turns up evidence for which the best explanation is that he was laundering money for Russia.

These things are not smocking guns. But all the evidence there is is inculpatory, and none of it is exculpatory. To me the balance of probability points quite firmly in one direction.
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Old 16th February 2019, 02:16 AM   #74
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...99531469017095

Quote:
Reuters: FEDERAL JUDGE ISSUES GAG ORDER IN TRIAL OF FORMER TRUMP ADVISER ROGER STONE
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Old 16th February 2019, 02:17 AM   #75
Squeegee Beckenheim
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https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/statu...42036352790529

Quote:
Breaking: Prosecutors say for the first time they have evidence of Roger Stone communicating with Wikileaks, according to a new court filing from special counsel prosecutors.
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...21856222486528

Quote:
This is the filing I've been waiting for today. The SCO says evidence in Roger Stone's case was found in accounts that were searched for the GRU case, in which 11 Russian military officers were charged with a conspiracy to interfere in the election. https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...lated-Case.pdf
Document embedded in tweet.
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Old 16th February 2019, 02:19 AM   #76
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
Trump is doing the finest impersonation of a guilty man I've ever seen. I've never witnessed an innocent person doing so many things that scream "I'm guilty" as Trump. An innocent person would welcome an investigation knowing he has nothing to hide. An innocent person would want the integrity of the investigation to be above reproach so that, when found faultless, it cannot be questioned by critics. Instead, we have Trump who has attacked the investigation and those who involved in it from day one as a "witch hunt". No, he's scared ****less of what they are finding. It may not be direct conspiracy with Russia by Trump, but he is scared to death of what they will find or have found. Only those suffering from severe HISS (Head in Sand Syndrome) cannot, or more accurately, refuse to see it.
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Old 16th February 2019, 02:28 AM   #77
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
50K to 24M is quite a spread.
Are you going high or low?
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Old 16th February 2019, 04:32 AM   #78
Susheel
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
if that was true, why does Trump fight tooth and nail to discredit the investigation?
Why doesn't he have an interview with Mueller?
... It's a trap...
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Old 16th February 2019, 05:22 AM   #79
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
... It's a trap...
Best said in the voice of Admiral Ackbar, I think.
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Old 16th February 2019, 05:35 AM   #80
varwoche
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I'm gonna tell you something. There obviously is no collusion. His report, IF he writes one is going to be very disappointing for the media. The Dems will probably stomp and act upset but they don't really want impeachment proceedings. That would lead to disclosure.
And a whole bunch of bad stuff will be exposed. And isn't Trump who will be in trouble.
Day is night, up is down, his entire senior staff didn't meet with Russian actors to get dirt on Hillary, if you watch enough TV courtroom dramas they issue you a law degree, and the fact-free bubble from where you post has a lovely sheen.
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Last edited by varwoche; 16th February 2019 at 05:37 AM.
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