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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 19th February 2019, 11:05 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
First of all, I don't think the crosshairs were 'placed'. Given the angle, it looks like the crosshairs were part of the writing on the background.

Now, its possible that the creators of the image did intend to imply it as some sort of threat. But then, Stone wasn't the original creator of the image.

Its not the first time he has posted images without thinking... He once posted a picture of Himself, Trump and a bunch of other associates wearing space suits (in honor of Trump's plan to create "Space Force".) The problem is, the suits they were wearing had swastika on them.

https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone...stikas-1072213

Again, I'm not saying this to absolve Stone. From what we know, he definitely belongs in jail, for a long long time. And he should definitely have kept clear of posting ANYTHING about the judge or the case. I'm just not convinced the 'crosshair image' was actually posted as a threat by Stone aimed at the judge.
If you're being charged with witness tampering it's best to avoid anything that might be mistaken as threatening someone involved in your trial.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:12 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
If you're being charged with witness tampering it's best to avoid anything that might be mistaken as threatening someone involved in your trial.
Look, threatening to kill the judge is a clever strategy to have a mistrial: how can that judge still be impartial?
This is a defense ploy.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:14 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Look, threatening to kill the judge is a clever strategy to have a mistrial: how can that judge still be impartial?
This is a defense ploy.
That's a rather "Kill the patient to stop the cancer" strategy don't you think?
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:17 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's a rather "Kill the patient to stop the cancer" strategy don't you think?
no, it isn't.

the judge has a track record of "not being a team player" when it comes to helping Trump's associates. Manafort tried to shop for a jury, Stone is trying to do the same.
As long as he has a shred of deniability, ending in another court could help Stone a lot.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:19 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's a rather "Kill the patient to stop the cancer" strategy don't you think?
If you know that a certain judge is gonna come down hard on you, it might be worth a gamble just to get someone different. I'd say, though, that's not quite as plausible as the hypothesis that Stone is just not very bright. The purpose of the posting was to solicit money for his defense fund by portraying himself as a victim of a bad judge, and it's plausible that he didn't think beyond that.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:20 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
First of all, I don't think the crosshairs were 'placed'. Given the angle, it looks like the crosshairs were part of the writing on the background.



Now, its possible that the creators of the image did intend to imply it as some sort of threat. But then, Stone wasn't the original creator of the image.



Its not the first time he has posted images without thinking... He once posted a picture of Himself, Trump and a bunch of other associates wearing space suits (in honor of Trump's plan to create "Space Force".) The problem is, the suits they were wearing had swastika on them.



https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone...stikas-1072213



Again, I'm not saying this to absolve Stone. From what we know, he definitely belongs in jail, for a long long time. And he should definitely have kept clear of posting ANYTHING about the judge or the case. I'm just not convinced the 'crosshair image' was actually posted as a threat by Stone aimed at the judge.
It's amazing to me that you reference another example of this, even acknowledge it as part of a pattern of such behavior, as casting doubt on it being intentional.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 19th February 2019 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:38 AM   #247
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Whoa.

Quote:
One of Mr. Trump’s lawyer also reached out that summer to the attorneys for two of his former aides — Paul J. Manafort and Mr. Flynn — to discuss possible pardons. The discussions raised questions about whether the president was willing to offer pardons to influence their decisions about whether to plead guilty and cooperate in the Mueller investigation.

The president even tried to fire Mr. Mueller himself, a move that could have brought an end to the investigation. Just weeks after Mr. Mueller’s appointment, the president insisted that he ought to be fired because of perceived conflicts of interest. Mr. Trump’s White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, who would have been responsible for carrying out the order, refused and threatened to quit.

The president eventually backed off.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:39 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no, it isn't.

the judge has a track record of "not being a team player" when it comes to helping Trump's associates. Manafort tried to shop for a jury, Stone is trying to do the same.
As long as he has a shred of deniability, ending in another court could help Stone a lot.
Doesn't work that way. There is precedent. You can't judge shop by behaving like an ass then claiming such misbehavior has prejudiced the judge against you. It didn't work in the Trump U case when Trump claimed his racist remarks against the Judge made him too biased to oversee the case, and it won't work now. It's not prejudice when a judge reacts to bad behavior in real time.

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1097582430284697600

Popehat cites a case where a man called up the home of his current criminal trial Judge and left threatening messages. The man appealed saying the Judge should have recused himself, being biased by his threats of violence. Appeal was rejected.

Acting like an douche during your trial and pissing off the judge is not grounds for recusal.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:40 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Look, threatening to kill the judge is a clever strategy to have a mistrial: how can that judge still be impartial?
This is a defense ploy.
Sorry, but I do not think that is right.

After all, Stone was busted only about three weeks ago and the Stone trial has not even started yet.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:43 AM   #250
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The FBI, concerned about firings, built a secret haven for Russia evidence, AP reports.
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:50 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Did he say "drain the swamp" or "drain into the swamp"?
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Old 19th February 2019, 11:51 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Doesn't work that way. There is precedent. You can't judge shop by behaving like an ass then claiming such misbehavior has prejudiced the judge against you. It didn't work in the Trump U case when Trump claimed his racist remarks against the Judge made him too biased to oversee the case, and it won't work now. It's not prejudice when a judge reacts to bad behavior in real time.

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1097582430284697600

Popehat cites a case where a man called up the home of his current criminal trial Judge and left threatening messages. The man appealed saying the Judge should have recused himself, being biased by his threats of violence. Appeal was rejected.

Acting like an douche during your trial and pissing off the judge is not grounds for recusal.
Yeah that sort of strategy is more akin to children learning to abuse the rules.
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Old 19th February 2019, 12:03 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Clearly there was a conspiracy here! A conspiracy to enforce the law.
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Old 19th February 2019, 12:03 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Did he say "drain the swamp" or "drain into the swamp"?
The whole article is full of holy **** moments.

Quote:
As federal prosecutors in Manhattan gathered evidence late last year about President Trump’s role in silencing women with hush payments during the 2016 campaign, Mr. Trump called Matthew G. Whitaker, his newly installed attorney general, with a question. He asked whether Geoffrey S. Berman, the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York and a Trump ally, could be put in charge of the widening investigation, according to several American officials with direct knowledge of the call.

Mr. Whitaker, who had privately told associates that part of his role at the Justice Department was to “jump on a grenade” for the president, knew he could not put Mr. Berman in charge, since Mr. Berman had already recused himself from the investigation. The president soon soured on Mr. Whitaker, as he often does with his aides, and complained about his inability to pull levers at the Justice Department that could make the president’s many legal problems go away.
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Old 19th February 2019, 01:35 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Yeah.

"The FBI has opened an investigation of illegal activities of Trump and his team and his cabinet has discussed a 25th amendment solution"

Normal people: whoa, sounds like there are major concerns about Trump and his team
Fox News: whoa, sounds like the FBI and his cabinet are corrupt

Normal people:
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Old 19th February 2019, 01:37 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is hilarious to see the left/resistance including stone cold grifters like Seth Abramson swooning over Andy McCabe.

Lets remember what the OIG said about Andy's veracity:

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2018/o20180413.pdf
We were just laughing at Roger Stone.
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Old 19th February 2019, 01:41 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah.

"The FBI has opened an investigation of illegal activities of Trump and his team and his cabinet has discussed a 25th amendment solution"

Normal people: whoa, sounds like there are major concerns about Trump and his team
Fox News: whoa, sounds like the FBI and his cabinet are corrupt

Normal people:
Normal people: wait, isn't the person behind those claims the same guy who repeatedly lied, and was fired for lying, and the OIG referred the liar to the DoJ for lying; plus he is trying to sell a book?

Actual Media: Yep

MSM: IT IS TEH COLLUSION!!!

Normal people....
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:00 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Quote:
Now, its possible that the creators of the image did intend to imply it as some sort of threat. But then, Stone wasn't the original creator of the image.
...
Its not the first time he has posted images without thinking... He once posted a picture of Himself, Trump and a bunch of other associates wearing space suits (in honor of Trump's plan to create "Space Force".) The problem is, the suits they were wearing had swastika on them.
...
Again, I'm not saying this to absolve Stone. From what we know, he definitely belongs in jail, for a long long time. And he should definitely have kept clear of posting ANYTHING about the judge or the case. I'm just not convinced the 'crosshair image' was actually posted as a threat by Stone aimed at the judge.
It's amazing to me that you reference another example of this, even acknowledge it as part of a pattern of such behavior, as casting doubt on it being intentional.
Not sure why you seem so surprised.

The Nazi space suit pic was a mistake on his part. (After all, Trump and his group may be racists, but they don't necessarily want to call attention to it.) It shows that Stone can and does reuse images without thinking.

His past behavior should lend at least a little credibility to the idea that he did so again in that he probably reused an image without thinking about it.

What exactly is so surprising about that?
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:06 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
As an aside, Roger stone's head shape is almost enough to make me believe in phrenology.

He seems to lack a back to his skull

https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newsc...4.fit-760w.jpg
Hhmmm, if they decide to make a live action Futurama he'd just need a dye job (and I'm sure the Donald can recommend someone for that).

https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Walt
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:08 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
As an aside, Roger stone's head shape is almost enough to make me believe in phrenology.

He seems to lack a back to his skull
Look at it this way... if Trump ever decides to give him a pat on the head, his head will seem normal size to Trump's tiny hands.
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:22 PM   #261
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Trump Tweets

I never said anything bad about Andrew McCabe’s wife other than she (they) should not have taken large amounts of campaign money from a Crooked Hillary source when Clinton was under investigation by the FBI. I never called his wife a loser to him (another McCabe made up lie)!
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:28 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Normal people: wait, isn't the person behind those claims the same guy who repeatedly lied, and was fired for lying, and the OIG referred the liar to the DoJ for lying; plus he is trying to sell a book?

Actual Media: Yep

MSM: IT IS TEH COLLUSION!!!

Normal people....
AND PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE LIES COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE!!!
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:33 PM   #263
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:41 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Trump Tweets

I never said anything bad about Andrew McCabe’s wife other than she (they) should not have taken large amounts of campaign money from a Crooked Hillary source when Clinton was under investigation by the FBI. I never called his wife a loser to him (another McCabe made up lie)!

Those parenthetical asides - God damn. It's like he read a course on how not to communicate effectively.

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Old 19th February 2019, 03:04 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I still can't wrap my head around how a legal avenue specifically created for removing the executive can be referred to as "illegal" or a "coup."

Compare and contrast with Trump publically calling for the military of another sovereign state to depose their goverment by force.
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Old 19th February 2019, 03:12 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Just to point out one detail that you may not be aware of.

The President cannot 'pardon' his way out of his own crimes. After all, the constitution specifically forbids the use of pardons in the case of impeachment (Article 2, Section 2).

That would address the impeachment part. I think it is clear that there are a multitude of other possible charges which Trump might face.

The essential question of whether or not a President might pardon himself has yet to be fully adjudicated, and Trump would certainly have an interest in testing it. We know that a President can issue a blanket, preemptive pardon for crimes which have never even been alleged, much less moved on by law enforcement. Because it has already happened.

I expect that that is a precedent which Trump will find increasingly attractive. Especially when applied to himself.
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Old 19th February 2019, 03:14 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Did he say "drain the swamp" or "drain into the swamp"?

Like I said at the very onset, Trump's plan was to drain the swamp from the top.

Keep pumping more sewage into it until it overflowed.

Seems to be working.
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Old 19th February 2019, 03:16 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
That would address the impeachment part. I think it is clear that there are a multitude of other possible charges which Trump might face.

The essential question of whether or not a President might pardon himself has yet to be fully adjudicated, and Trump would certainly have an interest in testing it. We know that a President can issue a blanket, preemptive pardon for crimes which have never even been alleged, much less moved on by law enforcement. Because it has already happened.

I expect that that is a precedent which Trump will find increasingly attractive. Especially when applied to himself.
I'm sure there is a perfectly good reason why this would not be impeachable.

I'm really struggling why the Republican party aren't also working to impeach him.
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Old 19th February 2019, 03:30 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I'm really struggling why the Republican party aren't also working to impeach him.
Simple... because the Republican party is stuck. They've spent so much of their time catering to bigots and morons that they have nothing left to offer the electorate. And Trump especially caters to the bigotry and stupidity.

If they get rid of him, then they piss off their supporters. "We wanted Mango Moussolini and you had him impeached! We're not voting for you again!"
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Old 19th February 2019, 03:31 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I'm sure there is a perfectly good reason why this would not be impeachable.

I'm really struggling why the Republican party aren't also working to impeach him.
There are two reasons the GOP allow Trump to remain:

1. Tax cuts for the rich; and
2. Supreme Court nominations from their preferred list.
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Old 19th February 2019, 03:31 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not sure why you seem so surprised.



The Nazi space suit pic was a mistake on his part. (After all, Trump and his group may be racists, but they don't necessarily want to call attention to it.) It shows that Stone can and does reuse images without thinking.



His past behavior should lend at least a little credibility to the idea that he did so again in that he probably reused an image without thinking about it.



What exactly is so surprising about that?
That someone seemingly reasonable can be repeatedly hoodwinked with the same weak excuse from the same person over the same behavior.
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Old 19th February 2019, 03:36 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
That someone seemingly reasonable can be repeatedly hoodwinked with the same weak excuse from the same person over the same behavior.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I can't really think of any benefit Stone or Trump would have gotten by getting labeled as Nazis. So why do you think he published a photo of a them wearing swastikas? The idea that he just reused the picture without looking closely at it seems to make more sense than any sort of secret messaging. "Look at us... we are all nazis!"
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Old 19th February 2019, 04:07 PM   #273
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no, it isn't.

the judge has a track record of "not being a team player" when it comes to helping Trump's associates. Manafort tried to shop for a jury, Stone is trying to do the same.
As long as he has a shred of deniability, ending in another court could help Stone a lot.

It is highly unlikely that he will be able to con his way to a change of judge

His case has been listed and documented as directly related to case no. 18CR215, the indictment of the 12 GRU Military Officers in the Russia hacking investigation.



The judge is that case is Amy Berman Jackson, and it is very unusual for different judges to be appointed to related cases. Judge Jackson would have to recuse herself, and she shows no sign of doing so.
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Old 19th February 2019, 04:19 PM   #274
Darat
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
It is highly unlikely that he will be able to con his way to a change of judge



His case has been listed and documented as directly related to case no. 18CR215, the indictment of the 12 GRU Military Officers in the Russia hacking investigation.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/9h6iowa1yv...ase.jpeg?raw=1



The judge is that case is Amy Berman Jackson, and it is very unusual for different judges to be appointed to related cases. Judge Jackson would have to recuse herself, and she shows no sign of doing so.
It would seem strange "I'm going to recluse myself because I know some facts pertaining to the case"
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Old 19th February 2019, 05:59 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
There are two reasons the GOP allow Trump to remain:

1. Tax cuts for the rich; and
2. Supreme Court nominations from their preferred list.
I don't get this line of reasoning. Wouldn't any bog standard Republican offer the same things. It's not like Hillary would suddenly be put into power.
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Old 19th February 2019, 06:02 PM   #276
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Stone links his prosecution to an alleged coup attempt against Trump by a "globalist cabal"

Quote:
I am a victim of the same witch hunt, the same effort that is being put forward to take down the president in an illicit coup is the same witch hunt which has indicted me, that is coming after Alex [Jones], that is running the campaign of censorship against Infowars. It’s all the same people. It’s the same globalist cabal.
https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/20...attempt/222912
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Old 19th February 2019, 06:11 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Stone links his prosecution to an alleged coup attempt against Trump by a "globalist cabal"

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/20...attempt/222912
Like I said previously: Eat-the-snake crazy.
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Old 19th February 2019, 06:11 PM   #278
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"Globalist" is, of course, the current alt-right buzzword for "Jew".
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Old 19th February 2019, 06:13 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Stone links his prosecution to an alleged coup attempt against Trump by a "globalist cabal"



https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/20...attempt/222912
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Old 19th February 2019, 08:00 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I can't really think of any benefit Stone or Trump would have gotten by getting labeled as Nazis. So why do you think he published a photo of a them wearing swastikas? The idea that he just reused the picture without looking closely at it seems to make more sense than any sort of secret messaging. "Look at us... we are all nazis!"
Okay, nevermind. I see what I did.

We live on different god damn planets.
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