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Old 13th March 2019, 04:28 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It is like Kavanaugh who got in as a legacy.
Are you stating that he would not have qualified otherwise?
If you are - I am going to call you on that one and ask you to provide some evidence to back up that claim.
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:51 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Is she living up to the stereotype of a spoiled rich brat, or just a true woman of the people because knowing stuff is elitist and sooo overrated anyways? It's hard to tell the difference these days.
Casting now open for Hollywood's inevitable "hilarious teen comedy..."
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:57 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
She's pretty and popular, so who cares? At the end of the day, knowing how to paint your face is far more important than knowing about the theories of Max Weber.
How about the theories of Max Factor?
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Old 13th March 2019, 05:21 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You don't understand. It's not the institutions that were crooked, at least in this case; it's the people the parents hired to cheat on exams and falsify records to make the students look better to the colleges.
Deans and coaches at the universities accepted bribes. One of the deans at USC accepted 20k a month to cover up whenever someone got suspicious.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 13th March 2019 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 13th March 2019, 05:27 AM   #45
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We know that the NCAA will investigate, any chance of entire programs being put on probation and missing NCAA tournaments, or CFB championships?
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Old 13th March 2019, 05:35 AM   #46
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I now realize why I didn't get into Michigan.

DAMMIT MOM, WHY DIDN"T YOU SEND THEM A CHECK??!?!
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:05 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You don't understand. It's not the institutions that were crooked, at least in this case; it's the people the parents hired to cheat on exams and falsify records to make the students look better to the colleges.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Co...Charged/245865

Coaches and other University staff took bribes.

It takes two to tango.
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:11 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The Most Bizarre Details From the College Cheating Scandal

So it wasn't just cheating on the SAT or ACT tests, it went beyond that. In some cases they went for athletic scholarships, for non-athletes (curious). This involved either photoshop or in one case at least setting up a fake water polo scene.

https://twitter.com/mollyhc/status/1105485163922948097

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/stat...90833057304576

Then there's this:


So after $500,000 in bribes (and now federal charges in the bargain), the ungrateful little wretch is like, "I don’t really care about school, as you guys all know" but she does want "the experience of like game days, partying". You know, the fun parts of college, just not the studying and stuff.
I was wondering how the daughters got away with just posing on rowing machines. My youngest was on the V8 in her high school, and there is no mistaking the muscular development of a rower who is on the boat every day.

But how would they not get caught at this? Why make a fake pic when there are no records of her being on the high School team? The pic proves nothing when you can look at their transcript or even yearbook and see that they were not on the team. I wonder if the HS was in on it too?
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:18 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
We know that the NCAA will investigate, any chance of entire programs being put on probation and missing NCAA tournaments, or CFB championships?
In sports like water polo or crew (rowing) or sailing maybe.

The sports dominated by rich white kids. It's a sort of little-known affirmative action "side door".

https://slate.com/culture/2019/03/sp...s-scandal.html

Quote:
Singer described the scheme to parents as a “side door” to admission. (Separately, prosecutors say he helped parents acquire fraudulent standardized test scores for their children.) The defendants in the case include nine college coaches who are said to have received bribes, including Stanford University sailing coach John Vandemoer, former Yale University women’s soccer coach Rudy Meredith, and the water polo coach at the University of Southern California, Jovan Vavic.
Quote:
“I am stunned,” said Mimi Doe, a college admissions consultant and co-author of Don’t Worry, You’ll Get In. “You can see the dark underbelly [of college admissions], and it’s so beyond belief.” She compared getting into an elite college to procuring a ticket to a movie theater: It might seem like there are 500 available seats, but in fact many are roped off and reserved for special categories of people, among them “legacy” applicants and athletes.

In many cases, admission criteria for grades and test scores are relaxed for such recruits.
Quote:
Many less-prestigious sports are expensive to participate in, let alone excel at. They require investments like elaborate equipment, pool time, and private coaching. They overwhelmingly attract white players and even more disproportionately exclude black students. Just 160 of 7,277 women’s crew team members last year were black, according to NCAA data. Among water polo players, black athletes made up 31 of 2,263 team members.
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:21 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I was wondering how the daughters got away with just posing on rowing machines. My youngest was on the V8 in her high school, and there is no mistaking the muscular development of a rower who is on the boat every day.

But how would they not get caught at this? Why make a fake pic when there are no records of her being on the high School team? The pic proves nothing when you can look at their transcript or even yearbook and see that they were not on the team. I wonder if the HS was in on it too?
Because the coaches at the college were paid off apparently.

(I think student athletes go through a different kind of admissions process than general students, and the coaches are involved)
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Last edited by Puppycow; 13th March 2019 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:23 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I was wondering how the daughters got away with just posing on rowing machines. My youngest was on the V8 in her high school, and there is no mistaking the muscular development of a rower who is on the boat every day.

But how would they not get caught at this? Why make a fake pic when there are no records of her being on the high School team? The pic proves nothing when you can look at their transcript or even yearbook and see that they were not on the team. I wonder if the HS was in on it too?
I assume that the bribes were made to the people at the college who would have been tasked with vetting the applicants. Colleges don't have independent investigators research applicants. If the rowing coach (how is that even a thing?!) says 'yup, I'm mighty impressed with this girl, she's got the deltoids of a galley slave and won the Golden Alligator Award twice' is anybody going to doubt them? Is Dean Snidely going to disguise himself as a janitor and break into St Snobbella's School For Spoiled Girls to look at their files? It's easy to get away with things if nobody suspects or checks behind you.
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:35 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Because the coaches at the college were paid off apparently.

(I think student athletes go through a different kind of admissions process than general students, and the coaches are involved)
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I assume that the bribes were made to the people at the college who would have been tasked with vetting the applicants. Colleges don't have independent investigators research applicants. If the rowing coach (how is that even a thing?!) says 'yup, I'm mighty impressed with this girl, she's got the deltoids of a galley slave and won the Golden Alligator Award twice' is anybody going to doubt them? Is Dean Snidely going to disguise himself as a janitor and break into St Snobbella's School For Spoiled Girls to look at their files? It's easy to get away with things if nobody suspects or checks behind you.
The point is that a head shot of the student on a rowing machine is not only nothing, it is less than nothing. Fooling the pencil-pushers means doctored records; they don't refer to pictures. The doctored pic literally does nothing for anyone except prove guilt. For whose benefit was this? Would a clerk in the office be fooled? 'Oh, other rowers have letters and interviews and scouting from their coaches and staff, in addition to their certified transcript from their school. But these kids, whoa...they have a pic. That's a jazzy twist. Must be legit.'

eta: a student athlete does go through a different process, but it does cross paths with the general admissions board. Which is my point: if everyone was in on it, some gratuitous pic means nothing. If the pic was intended to give credibility, who was it intended for? Pics do nothing in the admissions process. It's not a Hollywood audition. In theory.
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:37 AM   #53
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As a decidedly middle class parent with soon to be college age kids, this is disheartening. I guess I always knew it existed, but my kids are doing fantastic, we’ve saved for years, and it stinks that it might not matter.
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Old 13th March 2019, 06:51 AM   #54
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Meanwhile...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-mom-j...ry?id=12763654

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arrest-of...-sparks-debate


Anyone who complains about Affirmative Action should be more concerned with the overwhelmingly unfair advantages the wealthy elite are given.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:02 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Meanwhile...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-mom-j...ry?id=12763654

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arrest-of...-sparks-debate


Anyone who complains about Affirmative Action should be more concerned with the overwhelmingly unfair advantages the wealthy elite are given.

Jesus H Christ.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:15 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
As a decidedly middle class parent with soon to be college age kids, this is disheartening. I guess I always knew it existed, but my kids are doing fantastic, we’ve saved for years, and it stinks that it might not matter.
It might not matter for getting into Yale.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:23 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Meanwhile...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-mom-j...ry?id=12763654

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arrest-of...-sparks-debate


Anyone who complains about Affirmative Action should be more concerned with the overwhelmingly unfair advantages the wealthy elite are given.
Huh? The two stories you link are about mothers lying and falsifying records to get their kids a better education on someone else's dime. Teaching your kids to lie and cheat (by example) is not the mark of a good parent.

Maybe they also teach their kids to steal from stores, since it is not fair that she does not have the benefits that others pay for? That's noble too, yes?
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:25 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
The thread has been " Trumped "...


Didn't even get past page one..
Don't shoot the messenger. A Trump possessing the IQ of a geranium (redundant?) and a Wharton degree, the son of another rich dimwit with a Wharton degree, inserted himself into the discussion.

Ultimately, this scandal pales in comparison to legacies and other "legit" ways that rich dimwits get into elite schools.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:35 AM   #59
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20k a month to cover up if someone gets suspicious?

Damn, why not just pay a personal trainer/tutor (or small team of such) and force your kid to listen to them and study effectively.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:36 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Huh? The two stories you link are about mothers lying and falsifying records to get their kids a better education on someone else's dime. Teaching your kids to lie and cheat (by example) is not the mark of a good parent.

Maybe they also teach their kids to steal from stores, since it is not fair that she does not have the benefits that others pay for? That's noble too, yes?
Its disadvantage people trying utilize public schooling, which is supposed to be a great equalizer in this country. Instead, it was turned into yet another toy rich people use to display their status.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:39 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It might not matter for getting into Yale.
State universities are implicated as well. Not just Ivy League.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:49 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
20k a month to cover up if someone gets suspicious?

Damn, why not just pay a personal trainer/tutor (or small team of such) and force your kid to listen to them and study effectively.
Peasant.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:51 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
20k a month to cover up if someone gets suspicious?

Damn, why not just pay a personal trainer/tutor (or small team of such) and force your kid to listen to them and study effectively.
In their defense, Olivia Jade seems really dumb.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:52 AM   #64
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Here's a side question.

If you're like stupidly rich, and assuming you're not going to cut your kids out of the money entirely, what's the point of them going to college?

Nobody's gone to college just to learn since the internet was invented. If you're going to college it's to make money.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:52 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Huh? The two stories you link are about mothers lying and falsifying records to get their kids a better education on someone else's dime. Teaching your kids to lie and cheat (by example) is not the mark of a good parent.

You think? I think this is bobbins, I'm afraid. The most successful people lie and cheat. Just look at those that inhabit the corridors of power in the US and the UK. Look at the man in charge in the US.

Try being honest at a job interview and see how far that gets you.

Lying and cheating are the recipe for success in the modern world, just doin't get caught.

Look at the massive advantages these mothers tried to secure for their children - How different do you think their life would be if they'd succeeded.

The modern, western world is a partyground for liars and cheats. We can teach our kids to be honest or teach them to be succesful - pick one.



Quote:
Maybe they also teach their kids to steal from stores, since it is not fair that she does not have the benefits that others pay for? That's noble too, yes?
No, that's not. Society frowns on that (being more alongside the idea of embezzlement), but people lie, successful people lie more often and better.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:53 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Its disadvantage people trying utilize public schooling, which is supposed to be a great equalizer in this country. Instead, it was turned into yet another toy rich people use to display their status.
Does that make it noble to steal from a taxpayer base for your advantage, or for that of your children? Would the women also be applauded for stealing from others in other ways, say to rob a laptop from city hall to give it to their kids?
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:53 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's a side question.

If you're like stupidly rich, and assuming you're not going to cut your kids out of the money entirely, what's the point of them going to college?

Nobody's gone to college just to learn since the internet was invented. If you're going to college it's to make money.
So you can brag to your friends. Its a status symbol. A toy.
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:53 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's a side question.

If you're like stupidly rich, and assuming you're not going to cut your kids out of the money entirely, what's the point of them going to college?

Nobody's gone to college just to learn since the internet was invented. If you're going to college it's to make money.

To meet a suitable spouse
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Old 13th March 2019, 07:56 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You think? I think this is bobbins, I'm afraid. The most successful people lie and cheat. Just look at those that inhabit the corridors of power in the US and the UK. Look at the man in charge in the US.

Try being honest at a job interview and see how far that gets you.

Lying and cheating are the recipe for success in the modern world, just doin't get caught.

Look at the massive advantages these mothers tried to secure for their children - How different do you think their life would be if they'd succeeded.

The modern, western world is a partyground for liars and cheats. We can teach our kids to be honest or teach them to be succesful - pick one.





No, that's not. Society frowns on that (being more alongside the idea of embezzlement), but people lie, successful people lie more often and better.
Well, I share your cynicism about the machinations. But I don't excuse people who get caught working it. You get busted, you face the music.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:00 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well, I share your cynicism about the machinations. But I don't excuse people who get caught working it. You get busted, you face the music.

Yup, the modern metric is 'don't get caught', but I'm not going to vilify these parents for what they did.

If everyone else is doing it and you don't then, it doesn't matter how many of them get caught, you're 100% ******.

If you cheat then you're just x ****** where x is the chance of getting caught - much better than the 100% ****** that simply accepting the rigged system.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:03 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Does that make it noble to steal from a taxpayer base for your advantage, or for that of your children?
only if you are rich, I guess.

Quote:
Would the women also be applauded for stealing from others in other ways, say to rob a laptop from city hall to give it to their kids?
I try to imagine a world without hypotheticals.

Also, I don't fight for crumbs. Its beneath me. I see a poor person hustling so their kids have a shot at the American Dream, I won't get mad at them. I try and fix the system that puts them in that spot.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:07 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's a side question.

If you're like stupidly rich, and assuming you're not going to cut your kids out of the money entirely, what's the point of them going to college?

Nobody's gone to college just to learn since the internet was invented. If you're going to college it's to make money.
I see this all the time. Parents will spend $100s of thousands in their life for their kids to play on elite club sports and camps. They say, "It's an investment, because my kid will get an athletic scholarship to pay for their college."

Of course, if they had just taken that money and put it in a 529 account, they would have more than enough to pay for college.

Take that $500K that you've wasted bribing the school, put it in a trust fund, and let the kid have it when they graduate from whatever public university they can get into. A college degree from Arizona State and a million dollars in cash will go a long way.
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Last edited by pgwenthold; 13th March 2019 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:09 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I did love the detail about how two of the girls qualified for the Crew team by posing on home-gym rowing machines.
Maybe they thought it was the J Crew team.

Originally Posted by Cain View Post
She's pretty and popular, so who cares? At the end of the day, knowing how to paint your face is far more important than knowing about the theories of Max Weber.
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
How about the theories of Max Factor?
Her parents deserve to learn the theories of Max Schmeling or Max Baer.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:13 AM   #74
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nm. bonehead post.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:15 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Meanwhile...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-mom-j...ry?id=12763654

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arrest-of...-sparks-debate


Anyone who complains about Affirmative Action should be more concerned with the overwhelmingly unfair advantages the wealthy elite are given.
As a rule its the poor white trash that complain, as they are screwed with or without affirmative action, as its usually instituted.

Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Its disadvantage people trying utilize public schooling, which is supposed to be a great equalizer in this country. Instead, it was turned into yet another toy rich people use to display their status.
I'm amused by my rich* oh so progressive in-laws who re horrified by the notion of private school but naturally don't hesitate to move to the expensive neighborhood for the good schools. Its ok to use your money to buy into the elite tax supported good public school but some how shirking your civic duty to send your kids to private school?

*rich by standards. Doctors, lawyers, and bankers.

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Old 13th March 2019, 08:16 AM   #76
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Did I read right. 500,000 to get into USC.
Not that it’s not a good school but that is a waste of money.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:22 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
only if you are rich, I guess.



I try to imagine a world without hypotheticals.

Also, I don't fight for crumbs. Its beneath me. I see a poor person hustling so their kids have a shot at the American Dream, I won't get mad at them. I try and fix the system that puts them in that spot.
You dislike hypotheticals, but employ hyperbole and euphemisms? Okay.

I agree that school systems funded by local taxes are disastrous. Rich schools get better, and the poor worse.

But back to the mother providing for her children by lying, defrauding and stealing? Wait...not providing. This wasn't about food or shelter. It was to glean a benefit she wasn't paying for. Is this how 'the poor' should raise their children?
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:25 AM   #78
eeyore1954
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I see this all the time. Parents will spend $100s of thousands in their life for their kids to play on elite club sports and camps. They say, "It's an investment, because my kid will get an athletic scholarship to pay for their college."

Of course, if they had just taken that money and put it in a 529 account, they would have more than enough to pay for college.

Take that $500K that you've wasted bribing the school, put it in a trust fund, and let the kid have it when they graduate from whatever public university they can get into. A college degree from Arizona State and a million dollars in cash will go a long way.
I was going to post the same thing. 500,000 in a trust fund combined with 2 years in a community college and 2 more at a state college is probably as good as a USC degree.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:27 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Did I read right. 500,000 to get into USC.
Not that it’s not a good school but that is a waste of money.
... especially if the kid "isn't really sure how much school she's going to attend".

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it study if the horse's like not into it except for game days and parties and stuff.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:28 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I was going to post the same thing. 500,000 in a trust fund combined with 2 years in a community college and 2 more at a state college is probably as good as a USC degree.
But without the social networking and prestige. Those pack some punch, too. More than a checkbook, some say.
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