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Tags gun control issues , Las Vegas incidents , shooting incidents

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Old 31st October 2017, 08:33 AM   #2201
Tolls
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I know you can boot an OS from a USB.
I've just not seen it done with Windows 10 (on the assumption that's what was running), or any recent version.
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Old 31st October 2017, 04:08 PM   #2202
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Officer accidentally fired weapon in Las Vegas gunman’s Mandalay Bay suite

Originally Posted by Las Vegas Review-Journal
A Metropolitan Police Department officer accidentally discharged his weapon inside the Mandalay Bay gunman’s suite the night of the Oct. 1 shooting, the Clark County sheriff confirmed Monday.

The police firearm went off inside the suite sometime after officers made entry, Sheriff Joe Lombardo said. But the round or rounds were not fired in the same room where gunman Stephen Paddock was found dead with what has been described as a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

“It happened, and we’re investigating it, just like we do with any officer-involved use of force,” Lombardo told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “Nobody was struck.”

It’s unclear what caused the officer, who has not been named, to discharge his weapon.

Lombardo also confirmed Monday that the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay, where the gunman’s corner suite was located, did not have security cameras facing the gunman’s suite or the stairwell door that Paddock had apparently sealed sometime before the shooting. The only cameras on the floor faced the elevators...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...alay-bay-suite
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Old 31st October 2017, 05:45 PM   #2203
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Officer accidentally fired weapon in Las Vegas gunman’s Mandalay Bay suite




https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...alay-bay-suite

Bloody hell... no chance that's going to feed the CTs.
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Old 31st October 2017, 07:30 PM   #2204
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Yesterday Campos went back to work at Mandalay Bay. He's still staying on MGM property and not at his own house.
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Old 4th November 2017, 09:54 PM   #2205
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https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/n...455006233.html
Quote:
Democratic state Rep. David Linsky, one of the first in Massachusetts to call for outlawing the devices, said it would make the state safer while respecting the rights of gun owners.

"I am proud of my colleagues in the Legislature for continuing Massachusetts' reputation as having among the safest and most effective gun laws in the nation," Linsky said in a statement.
How does banning a gun accessory respect the rights of gun owners? Is it like protecting the rights of women while denying them certain medical care options like abortion and birth control? Maybe it's the same logic applied to other proposals in where taking away a right is a compromise if they only take a little bit at a time.

I read (not on the Mass.gov website) that the penalty for possession of a slide fire stock in MA will be 15 years to life. I also read that public hearings prior to passage of the bill were not conducted. Rather harsh for a non-violent, victimless crime. As far as I know a slide fire stock has not been associated with any violent crime in Massachusetts.

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H4008

Quote:
239 SECTION 18.
Section 121 of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as so appearing, is
240 hereby amended by inserting after the word “gun”, in line 100, the following words:- ; provided,
241 however, that “machine gun” shall include bump stocks and trigger cranks.
242 SECTION 19. Said section 121 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby further
243 amended by inserting after the definition of “Assault weapon” the following definition:
244 “Bump stock”, any device for a weapon that increases the rate of fire achievable with
245 such weapon by using energy from the recoil of the weapon to generate a reciprocating action
246 that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.
247 SECTION 20. Said section 121 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended
248 by inserting after the definition of “Shotgun” the following definition:
249 “Trigger crank”, any device to be attached to a weapon that repeatedly activates the
250 trigger of the weapon through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion;
15 of 27
251 provided, however, that “trigger crank” shall not include any weapon initially designed and
252 manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever.
253 SECTION 21. Paragraph (o) of section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is
254 hereby amended by adding the following sentence:- Clauses (i) and (ii) of this paragraph shall
255 not apply to bump stocks and trigger cranks.
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Old 5th November 2017, 06:53 AM   #2206
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Why weren't these bump fire stocks banned anyway along with machine guns? Did the law/act/statute/bill (whatever it's called in USA) specify something about trigger presses in its definition of a "machine gun"?
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:20 AM   #2207
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/n...455006233.html

How does banning a gun accessory respect the rights of gun owners? Is it like protecting the rights of women while denying them certain medical care options like abortion and birth control? Maybe it's the same logic applied to other proposals in where taking away a right is a compromise if they only take a little bit at a time.

I read (not on the Mass.gov website) that the penalty for possession of a slide fire stock in MA will be 15 years to life. I also read that public hearings prior to passage of the bill were not conducted. Rather harsh for a non-violent, victimless crime. As far as I know a slide fire stock has not been associated with any violent crime in Massachusetts.

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H4008
Technically it is restricting the rights of gun owners, just as having minimum roadworthiness tests for cars are restricting the rights of drivers.

However I can't see any valid use for bump stocks apart from firing a lot of bullets quickly, and not very accurately, so it isn't much of a hardship.

I understand that a skilled shooter doesn't need bump stocks, so if someone really wants to do that, they can train.

Defining a bump stock gun as a machine gun for the purpose of the legislation seems reasonable to me.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:44 AM   #2208
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Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Why weren't these bump fire stocks banned anyway along with machine guns? Did the law/act/statute/bill (whatever it's called in USA) specify something about trigger presses in its definition of a "machine gun"?
Quote:
26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Machinegun means: Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
Bump fire stocks work by using the recoil of the gun to engage the trigger again. So technically they don't meet the NFA definition of a machine gun.

Basically it's a loophole that should have been closed long ago.
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Old 5th November 2017, 09:54 AM   #2209
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Technically it is restricting the rights of gun owners, just as having minimum roadworthiness tests for cars are restricting the rights of drivers.

However I can't see any valid use for bump stocks apart from firing a lot of bullets quickly, and not very accurately, so it isn't much of a hardship.

I understand that a skilled shooter doesn't need bump stocks, so if someone really wants to do that, they can train.

Defining a bump stock gun as a machine gun for the purpose of the legislation seems reasonable to me.
It really isn't much of a hardship. There are places where you can rent a real machine gun and blow off hundreds of dollars in ammunition in a short time.

The difference is that those machine guns never leave the range. They don't end up in the hands of lunatics that want to kill as many people as possible by shooting into a crowd at a concert.
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:12 AM   #2210
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Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Why weren't these bump fire stocks banned anyway along with machine guns? Did the law/act/statute/bill (whatever it's called in USA) specify something about trigger presses in its definition of a "machine gun"?
US federal law defines a machine gun as any firearm that will fire two or more rounds with a single pull of the trigger. I've heard claims that the ATF has gone after a person who fired a double barrel shotgun with a single pull of the trigger, but have not found anything reliable about it. The ATF has also stretched the definition of a MG to include spring loaded bump stocks (look for Akin Accelerator) that fire more than one round at a time with a single function of the trigger finger.

The slide fire stocks intended for use with sporting firearms were invented in the last few decades. The feds started to regulate MG's in the 1930's; the law in force now is the NFA of 1934. Here is a decent article on the law; https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0020.htm

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Defining a bump stock gun as a machine gun for the purpose of the legislation seems reasonable to me.
I think it's as reasonable as banning telescopes because Paddock had some rifles equipped with them that day.

Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Basically it's a loophole that should have been closed long ago.
Hindsight is 20/20, yes? If anyone had suggested this decades ago I think they would have been laughed at by the GOP (gun rights) and the Democrats (have better things to do than ban those stupid things) as no one thought anyone was silly enough to waste the effort using them to murder someone when they're so cumbersome. It seems Paddock chose possibly the single effective situation in which to use one.

Last edited by Ranb; 5th November 2017 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 11:37 AM   #2211
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
htm[/url]


I think it's as reasonable as banning telescopes because Paddock had some rifles equipped with them that day.
Not really.

Telescopic sights have perfectly justifiable uses. So do telescopes.

What justifiable use does a bump stock have beyond the enjoyment of using a bump stock?
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Old 5th November 2017, 12:56 PM   #2212
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
US federal law defines a machine gun as any firearm that will fire two or more rounds with a single pull of the trigger. I've heard claims that the ATF has gone after a person who fired a double barrel shotgun with a single pull of the trigger , but have not found anything reliable about it. The ATF has also stretched the definition of a MG to include spring loaded bump stocks (look for Akin Accelerator) that fire more than one round at a time with a single function of the trigger finger.

The slide fire stocks intended for use with sporting firearms were invented in the last few decades. The feds started to regulate MG's in the 1930's; the law in force now is the NFA of 1934. Here is a decent article on the law; https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0020.htm


I think it's as reasonable as banning telescopes because Paddock had some rifles equipped with them that day.


Hindsight is 20/20, yes? If anyone had suggested this decades ago I think they would have been laughed at by the GOP (gun rights) and the Democrats (have better things to do than ban those stupid things) as no one thought anyone was silly enough to waste the effort using them to murder someone when they're so cumbersome. It seems Paddock chose possibly the single effective situation in which to use one.
I could be mistaken but I believe shooting both barrels of a double-barrel shotgun simultaneously would require you to pull on 2 separate triggers. The type of gun with a single trigger will only fire one barrel at a time.

So such a shotgun should not be considered a machine gun based on that criteria.

Also, your telescope comparison - Seems like you're saying that adding a piece of arbitrary equipment to a gun to make it fire like an automatic should be legal, yet we already know that if you modify the innards of a gun to do so, it is already illegal. It's a fine line between a modification and a bump stock, in fact I think there is no line.

Do you think bump stocks should be illegal? Do you think any device that makes a gun fire "as if it were" fully automatic should also be illegal, regardless of how it is designed and what it is called?

And I would hardly call Paddocks shooting spree a "wasted effort". He killed more people than any before him, I'd say it was a smashing success. Your last paragraph is silly.

Gun owner here, but finding it increasingly difficult to justify, especially with arguments like this. I find you a very reasonable poster, and not just about guns. I think you're wrong here.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:18 PM   #2213
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
What justifiable use does a bump stock have beyond the enjoyment of using a bump stock?
None that I now of. But why is that a reason to ban them? Enjoying a bump stock is in itself not illegal (except in MA) nor is it immoral. I think it's stupid, but stupid has never really been a good reason to ban something.

Until this one single case (AFAIK) where a bump stock may (or probably) have been used to facilitate a crime, no one had any reason to suggest that they be banned. MA's law will almost certainly never protect anyone from harm.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:27 PM   #2214
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
None that I now of. But why is that a reason to ban them? Enjoying a bump stock is in itself not illegal (except in MA) nor is it immoral. I think it's stupid, but stupid has never really been a good reason to ban something.

Until this one single case (AFAIK) where a bump stock may (or probably) have been used to facilitate a crime, no one had any reason to suggest that they be banned. MA's law will almost certainly never protect anyone from harm.
A ban doesn't impact on one's ability to defend oneself. It doesn't even impact on any potential military effectiveness of a militia as far as I can see.

Now that the bump stocks have been publicised, it will be surprising if they are not used for another spree shooting.

I think it's reasonable to ban them - it is a minor impact on something that shouldn't have been allowed anyway, and was just a way round the ban on automatic weapons.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:40 PM   #2215
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I could be mistaken but I believe shooting both barrels of a double-barrel shotgun simultaneously would require you to pull on 2 separate triggers. The type of gun with a single trigger will only fire one barrel at a time.
I was speaking of a case where a single pull of one of the two triggers had resulted in both barrels discharging. As I said I was unable to find anything reliable about the alleged incident and it is anecdotal only.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Also, your telescope comparison - Seems like you're saying that adding a piece of arbitrary equipment to a gun to make it fire like an automatic should be legal, yet we already know that if you modify the innards of a gun to do so, it is already illegal. It's a fine line between a modification and a bump stock, in fact I think there is no line.
Actually bump fire is genuine semi-auto fire, no way around that at all. It appears to mimic slower (compared to a real M16) automatic fire. Considering the shooter has to adjust (to the detriment of accuracy) the way they hold/fire the rifle equipped with a bump stock compared to using an actual machine gun, it's not a fine line at all unless the only criteria used is the noise it makes.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Do you think bump stocks should be illegal? Do you think any device that makes a gun fire "as if it were" fully automatic should also be illegal, regardless of how it is designed and what it is called?
No. We would have to require that anyone owning a semi-auto firearm have their hands in casts for the duration of the gun ownership to ensure they can't manipulate the trigger fast enough to mimic full auto firing. Look online for examples of people bump firing semi-auto rifles and handguns.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
And I would hardly call Paddocks shooting spree a "wasted effort". He killed more people than any before him, I'd say it was a smashing success. Your last paragraph is silly.
That's true only if you limit your list of "killed more people than any before him" to a single person with a gun. Other killing sprees have been much worse.

I'm certain that Paddock could have killed more people with a machine gun; something he could obviously afford and obtain legally. He could have possibly killed more people without bump firing unless the 1.5-2 minutes he spent actually shooting was all the time he had.
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Old 5th November 2017, 03:49 PM   #2216
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
A ban doesn't impact on one's ability to defend oneself. It doesn't even impact on any potential military effectiveness of a militia as far as I can see.
I agree that MA's ban is unlikely to impact the ability of anyone to defend themselves. I doubt that it ever save anyone's life. I think the people voting for the bill probably knew this.

What it does it put another victimless crime on the books. It will affect those poor fools who were not aware of the law who get caught. It poses no threat to those who think they're (or know so) above the law and will purposely violate the law to generate attention for themselves; people like David Gregory.

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Now that the bump stocks have been publicised, it will be surprising if they are not used for another spree shooting.
I agree with that also.

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I think it's reasonable to ban them - it is a minor impact on something that shouldn't have been allowed anyway, and was just a way round the ban on automatic weapons.
I think a sentencing enhancement would be more reasonable. I really can't imagine a person thinking "if I only had access to a slide fire stock I could be more famous than the Vegas shooter".
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Old 6th November 2017, 10:32 AM   #2217
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
US federal law defines a machine gun as any firearm that will fire two or more rounds with a single pull of the trigger. I've heard claims that the ATF has gone after a person who fired a double barrel shotgun with a single pull of the trigger, but have not found anything reliable about it. The ATF has also stretched the definition of a MG to include spring loaded bump stocks (look for Akin Accelerator) that fire more than one round at a time with a single function of the trigger finger.

The slide fire stocks intended for use with sporting firearms were invented in the last few decades. The feds started to regulate MG's in the 1930's; the law in force now is the NFA of 1934. Here is a decent article on the law; https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0020.htm


I think it's as reasonable as banning telescopes because Paddock had some rifles equipped with them that day.


Hindsight is 20/20, yes? If anyone had suggested this decades ago I think they would have been laughed at by the GOP (gun rights) and the Democrats (have better things to do than ban those stupid things) as no one thought anyone was silly enough to waste the effort using them to murder someone when they're so cumbersome. It seems Paddock chose possibly the single effective situation in which to use one.
Ahh, the old days!

Before:

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...idarticles=129

After:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...-idUSKBN1CB2TF

Back then there was a fair bit of speculation on subguns.com that this party wouldn't last, and it didn't.

I'll not mention another type of device available legally now (except where it is manufactured) that has a similar function with an entirely different approach to the question.
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Old 8th November 2017, 04:06 PM   #2218
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Possible lawsuit against makers of slide fire stocks.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-payday-215803
Quote:
The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and Eglet Prince Law Firm have filed a class action lawsuit against the makers and sellers of bump stocks, on behalf of survivors who suffered emotional or psychological harm from the attack. The suit alleges that Slide Fire (among other, as-yet-unnamed defendants) recklessly and indiscriminately marketed and sold these products to the public, despite the predictable outcome of a tragedy like the Vegas shooting, and in deliberate disregard for the spirit of longstanding laws banning fully automatic weapons.
Did someone actually predict a mass shooting with a firearm equipped with a slide fire stock? Or is this a Syliva Browne type of "I knew it all along" thing?

Quote:
.... in 2005, President George W. Bush signed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), which gives firearms and ammunition manufacturers and retailers broad immunities from civil liability. In this instance though, the suit isn’t against a gun manufacturer. In fact, Slide Fire’s founder Jeremiah Cottle took pains to assure his product was not classified as a gun or an integral gun part.

Without that immunity, Slide Fire faces potentially the largest lawsuit the shooting industry has ever seen. “This is a class that could be over 20,000 people,” says Jonathan Lowy, Vice President of the Brady Campaign’s Legal Action Project. “We expect the damages to be very, very significant.”
Even if they win thousands of dollars for each of those 20K people, I don't think the financial resources of the one company that made the slide fire stock or their insurance company will be able to pay out that much.

I wonder what kind of cut the Brady Campaign and the Eglet Prince law firm will get? The usual 40% perhaps?

Do we even know if a rifle with a slide fire stock was used to kill anyone? Was every rifle Paddock had equipped with a slide fire stock; or did he bump fire with a rifle that didn't have one installed?
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Old 8th November 2017, 05:20 PM   #2219
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Possible lawsuit against makers of slide fire stocks.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-payday-215803

Did someone actually predict a mass shooting with a firearm equipped with a slide fire stock? Or is this a Syliva Browne type of "I knew it all along" thing?


Even if they win thousands of dollars for each of those 20K people, I don't think the financial resources of the one company that made the slide fire stock or their insurance company will be able to pay out that much.

I wonder what kind of cut the Brady Campaign and the Eglet Prince law firm will get? The usual 40% perhaps?

Do we even know if a rifle with a slide fire stock was used to kill anyone? Was every rifle Paddock had equipped with a slide fire stock; or did he bump fire with a rifle that didn't have one installed?
It's legalese and a pretty standard plaintiff's attorney press release statement.

The manufacture may have protection under the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act but it will take money on their part to find out.

It's a very similar question that was raised in the wake of the Branch Davidian raid and later final act where the question of who had what and was it semi-auto or an unregistered NFA device simply went by the wayside, even when Republicans in Congress made an effort to have the individual rifles be examined by Failure Analysis Associates (now Exponent) to determine if they were what was alleged. Because the N.R.A. turned out to be paying the freight for the FAA examination and testing, those test were not conducted.

Eventually all the survivors collectively were convicted and the court included sentence enhancements for the use of a machinegun in the commission of their individual crimes:

http://davekopel.org/Waco/Docs/wasentmm.htm

The Court heard the evidence at trial and recalls that from the ashes throughout the Compound and the vehicles immediately around it, 48 machineguns were found--46 complete firearms and 2 modified lower receivers. An examination of these and other weapons found at the Compound and admitted into evidence establishes that many of these weapons were equipped with silencers. Additionally, four live hand grenades -- destructive devices under Section 924(c) -- and numerous exploded fragments were discovered in the search of the Compound after the fire. The testimony established that all of these Defendants stood guard, with orders to fire should the FBI agents attempt entry, and that guns were available at each guard position. Numerous witnesses testified to the use of automatic weapons during the February 28th firefight with ATF agents and that was corroborated by the identification by Special Agent James Cadigan, a firearms expert, of fully automatic weapon fire on the video recordings made on that date.
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Old 8th November 2017, 06:01 PM   #2220
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Possible lawsuit against makers of slide fire stocks.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-payday-215803

Did someone actually predict a mass shooting with a firearm equipped with a slide fire stock? Or is this a Syliva Browne type of "I knew it all along" thing?
Not exactly a prediction, but the fact that "Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) included a ban on the devices in her failed 2013 bill to ban assault weapons" would suggest that at least she saw the potential for these things to be used to subvert the laws against fully automatic weapons.

Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Do we even know if a rifle with a slide fire stock was used to kill anyone? Was every rifle Paddock had equipped with a slide fire stock; or did he bump fire with a rifle that didn't have one installed?
Yes, he did have at least one rifle fitted with a bump-stock.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/04/us...ing/index.html

Look, while I understand that these bump stock/slide fire attachments are not technically illegal, I wish the gun advocates here would stop burying their collective heads in the sands of denial by pretending that these are anything other then a way to make a semi-automatic weapon attain a rate of fire approaching that of a fully automatic weapon.

The fact that they don't alter the firing mechanism is totally irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that they allow the shooter to have a high rate of fire approaching that of a machine gun, allowing someone like Stephen Paddock to shoot more people than he otherwise would.
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Last edited by smartcooky; 8th November 2017 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 8th November 2017, 06:19 PM   #2221
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not exactly a prediction, but the fact that "Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) included a ban on the devices in her failed 2013 bill to ban assault weapons" would suggest that at least she saw the potential for these things to be used to subvert the laws against fully automatic weapons.



Yes, he did have at least one rifle fitted with a bump-stock.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/04/us...ing/index.html

Look, while I understand that these bump stock/slide fire attachments are not technically illegal, I wish the gun advocates here would stop burying their collective heads in the sands of denial by pretending that these are anything other then a way to make a semi-automatic weapon attain a rate of fire approaching that of a fully automatic weapon.

The fact that they don't alter the firing mechanism is totally irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that they allow the shooter to have a high rate of fire approaching that of a machine gun, allowing someone like Stephen Paddock to shoot more people than he otherwise would.
Here's the thing - "bumpfire" existed long before there were any commercial product to facilitate that function.

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I AGREE


I can do it. I learned about as a kid on the M1 carbine over 50 years ago. I can do it with a handgun as well. There are many videos on YT explaining the procedure.

As a practical manner the stocks are already going to be banned, but the actual function that is being addressed can easily be duplicated by someone who wishes to do so without any such device.
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Old 8th November 2017, 06:22 PM   #2222
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not exactly a prediction, but the fact that "Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) included a ban on the devices in her failed 2013 bill to ban assault weapons" would suggest that at least she saw the potential for these things to be used to subvert the laws against fully automatic weapons.
Seeing as how there seems to be little that goes bang she doesn't want to ban, I'd say she is bound to include something that is going to be abused.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yes, he did have at least one rifle fitted with a bump-stock.
As far as I know he had a dozen rifles modified with slide fire stocks. Did he use one of them or another rifle without? Probably with, but a lawyer might want to know for sure prior to suing.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Look, while I understand that these bump stock/slide fire attachments are not technically illegal, I wish the gun advocates here would stop burying their collective heads in the sands of denial by pretending that these are anything other then a way to make a semi-automatic weapon attain a rate of fire approaching that of a fully automatic weapon.
I was not aware that anyone was saying otherwise. While the inventor promoted it as a way of helping disabled shooters, as far as I know it's always been marketed as the "cheaper next best thing" to full auto.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
allowing someone like Stephen Paddock to shoot more people than he otherwise would.
While he was lucky to have an 8 acre target zone to wildly spray into, with the amount of time he had before the police broke down his door, I'm certain he could have done as much damage with standard semi-auto fire.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 10:39 AM   #2223
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Originally Posted by Las Vegas Review-Journal
Gunman Stephen Paddock fired more than 1,100 rounds the night of the Las Vegas shooting, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo told the Las Vegas Review-Journal on Wednesday.

The new total includes about 200 rounds fired from Paddock’s Mandalay Bay corner suite and into the hallway of the 32nd floor late Oct. 1, injuring hotel security guard Jesus Campos.

Investigators have not determined why Paddock stopped shooting. Lombardo said they found about 4,000 more rounds of unused ammunition in the gunman’s suite.

The sheriff also mentioned that “multiple weapons” had jammed, as the Review-Journal has previously reported, but Lombardo again did not provide a specific number. He also did not provide a detailed list of the weapons Paddock had available to him...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...vegas-shooting
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Old 16th January 2018, 05:49 PM   #2224
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It looks like criminal charges will be coming in the next two months. They won't say who it is. His girlfriend?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...vegas-shooting
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Old 18th January 2018, 01:25 PM   #2225
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It looks like criminal charges will be coming in the next two months. They won't say who it is. His girlfriend?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...vegas-shooting
So secretive, but she's loading magazines for him?

Why does he need her to load magazines?

You can load a heck of a lot of magazines by yourself in one day.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 19th January 2018, 10:57 AM   #2226
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There will be a news conference today updating the investigation. Maybe they will announce charges.
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Old 19th January 2018, 12:05 PM   #2227
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/19...t-sheriff.html

Quote:
Investigators scanning computers belonging to Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock found “numerous” child pornography photos, the city’s sheriff revealed Friday, adding that the FBI is looking into a person of interest in the case.

It was Joe Lombardo’s first press conference since Oct. 13, 2017.

Police also released a new 81-page preliminary investigative report on the shooting Friday, containing new photographs of Paddock's hotel suite and information on "items of evidentiary value recovered from various scenes."
...

Quote:
Lombardo added that the person of interest is not Marilou Danley
PDF report:

https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Document..._Footnoted.pdf
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 19th January 2018, 12:48 PM   #2228
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That email exchange he had with himself is odd.

The coming charge might be for a weapons dealer or maybe one of his brothers.
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Old 19th January 2018, 01:01 PM   #2229
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That email exchange he had with himself is odd.
It brings to mind my kids texting each other in the back seat of the car -sharing stuff they don't want to talk about.

I'd guess that's what was happening -two people sending "emails" back and forth to a single account, so that someone else in the room (girlfriend, maybe?)would think they were just busy playing a game or ogling porn.
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Old 19th January 2018, 01:55 PM   #2230
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We can see that Paddock did indeed try to set off the JET-A tank with API rounds.

He had no hope of doing so, but he clearly tried to set off the fuel.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 19th January 2018, 05:38 PM   #2231
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Originally Posted by Las Vegas Sun
A motive has not been established, but Lombardo said Paddock was not radicalized and stopped shooting when he sensed police were coming. He had enough weapons and the ammunition to continue the onslaught, Lombardo said.
He's doing it again. The Sheriff is speculating without factual support. Why is the top cop constantly doing this on national television?

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2018/...p-mass-shootin
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Old 19th January 2018, 05:59 PM   #2232
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He's doing it again. The Sheriff is speculating without factual support. Why is the top cop constantly doing this on national television?
Because sheriffs are not law enforcement professionals. They are politicians with badges who never stop running at the mouth.
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:12 AM   #2233
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He's doing it again. The Sheriff is speculating without factual support. Why is the top cop constantly doing this on national television?

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2018/...p-mass-shootin
The answer's in the question.
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:49 AM   #2234
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This Sheriff is a woo woo who thinks that Paddock had psychic powers. He says that Paddock stopped shooting when he sensed that police were coming. But we already knew and the preliminary report details that he had already stopped shooting before the police got anywhere near him. His surveillance cameras wouldn't have seen them either. The top cop is now famous for nonsense here on ISF.

Paddock was definitely planning to escape the hotel. Not.

We will definitely find a motive for this shooting. Not.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 04:55 PM   #2235
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Prosecutors charge Arizona man who sold ammo to Las Vegas shooter

Originally Posted by Las Vegas Review-Journal
Federal prosecutors in Nevada have charged Douglas Haig with conspiracy to manufacture and sell armor-piercing ammunition. Court records show that a warrant for Haig’s arrest was issued Friday morning by a U.S. magistrate judge in Las Vegas...
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...-vegas-shooter
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Old 2nd February 2018, 06:27 PM   #2236
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https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...vegas-shooter/
Quote:
According to the statement from the U.S. attorney’s office, Haig was interviewed by investigators and told them that he reloads ammunition but does not offer reloaded cartridges for sale to his customers. He also said none of the ammunition recovered at Las Vegas crime scenes would have tool marks on them consistent with his reloading equipment.

“Reloaded ammunition refers to ammunition that is manufactured from component parts, including previously fired cartridge cases,” according to the statement. “Based on a forensic examination of rounds recovered in the shooter’s hotel rooms, Haig’s fingerprints were found on reloaded, unfired .308 caliber cartridges. Forensic examination also revealed that armor piercing ammunition recovered inside of the shooter’s rooms had tool marks consistent with Haig’s reloading equipment.”
"Consistent with" is a rather broad term. Tooling marks are not always as unique as fingerprints either. I wonder who the jury will believe if it goes to trial?

I've ordered surplus components in the past and it's not unusual to get tracer and AP bullets mixed in with the lead core bullets I was paying for.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...p44-sec921.htm
Quote:
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
It seems that almost anything can be fired in a handgun these days.

https://regulations.atf.gov/478-37/2016-12100#478-37
Quote:
No person shall manufacture or import, and no manufacturer or importer shall sell or deliver, armor piercing ammunition, except:
a. The manufacture or importation, or the sale or delivery by any manufacturer or importer, of armor piercing ammunition for the use of the United States....
b. The manufacture, or the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer, of armor piercing ammunition for the purpose of exportation; or
c. The sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of armor piercing ammunition for the purposes of testing or experimentation ....
The penalty for using AP ammo during a crime is 5-15 years. I wasn't able to find out what the penalty is for simply selling it without a license.
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Old 5th February 2018, 04:14 PM   #2237
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States and cities are taking the lead on bump stock bans

Originally Posted by Associated Press
In the immediate aftermath of the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, there was a fevered pitch to ban bump stocks, the device that allowed the shooter's semi-automatic rifles to mimic the rapid fire of machine guns.

With that push stalled at the federal level, a handful of states and some cities are moving ahead with bans of their own.

Massachusetts and New Jersey -- two states at the time led by Republican governors -- as well as the cities of Denver and Columbia, South Carolina, have enacted laws prohibiting the sale and possession of the devices, which were attached to a half-dozen of the long guns found in the hotel room of the Las Vegas shooter who in October killed 58 people and injured hundreds more attending a nearby outdoor concert. A little over a dozen other states are also considering bans on bump stocks...
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/inde..._taking_t.html
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Old 5th February 2018, 06:24 PM   #2238
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
States and cities are taking the lead on bump stock bans



http://www.oregonlive.com/today/inde..._taking_t.html
Makes more sense to request that venues take events into account and be required to modify their shows. But you know that wouldn't be sticking it to some rednecks who shoot at old trees, so let's go with the feel good ********.
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Old 5th February 2018, 07:06 PM   #2239
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Makes more sense to request that venues take events into account and be required to modify their shows. But you know that wouldn't be sticking it to some rednecks who shoot at old trees, so let's go with the feel good ********.
How would you do that? There are no shortage of outdoor venues that are within sight of taller buildings, or that are somehow visible from off-premises.
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