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Tags "A Wilderness of Error" , "Fatal Vision" , errol morris , Jeffrey MacDonald , Joe MacGinniss , murder cases

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Old 17th January 2018, 10:53 AM   #3521
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I remember seeing on TV once a Mafia mayor of Las Vegas saying the Mafia don't like a snitch for the government.

snipped
I remember seeing on TV a report of the guilty verdict in the case of your man crush murdering his family.
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Old 18th January 2018, 03:57 AM   #3522
Henri McPhee
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Thumbs down

Originally Posted by byn63 View Post
No way Beasley suspected Helena and her friends by inmate's description of the intruders. Helena didn't match the female suspect description AT ALL. In fact, when inmate was interviewed by the CID they showed him a picture of Helena. He said she had a distinctive nose, he'd have remembered that nose. Years later when she was brought into court to testify he had no reaction to her presence at all.
To my mind Jeff MacDonald's description of Helena Stoeckley as one of the intruders is remarkably accurate seeing as the MacDonald murders happened so quickly. It's only a resemblance. I can't provide an exact reference for the background to all that, but it's still probably on the internet somewhere. As far as I can remember Segal arranged for MacDonald to be interviewed by a police sketch artist, I think in Philadelphia. I can't quite see why MacDonald had to make a scene in court on seeing Helena in order to impress byn:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.c...intruders.html

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 18th January 2018 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 18th January 2018, 04:23 AM   #3523
JTF
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It Ain't Going Away

Again...

Despite his penchant for mixing in a little truth with a pack of lies, inmate's bluster about the "bizarre" investigation by CID Agent Bennie Hawkins actually got him off the hook. That was the last time this issue (e.g., New York Four) was a major legal talking point in this case. It was not mentioned at the 1979 trial nor was it mentioned in any subsequent government brief.

The problem for inmate is that this issue will always be part of the documented record and I would love to ask inmate several questions about this issue. I'm surprised that no interviewer has broached this subject with him.

- If this is a non-issue, why did you feel the need to visit the Suffolk County Police Department?

- If this is a non-issue, why did you feel the need to have your lawyer present when you read the New York Four's arrest report?

- Is it merely a coincidence that members of the Stoeckley Seven do not match your descriptions of the intruders whereas the descriptions of the New York Four do match?

- How do you explain the fact that multiple patrons at the Shortstop Bar saw you speaking with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of the New York Four?

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com/html/suspects.html
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Old 18th January 2018, 05:53 AM   #3524
byn63
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Amazingly accurate description of Helena? omg henri you cannot possibly be serious! helena was short, had dark hair and a big nose. while she admitted to owning a wig the description was of a blonde "bob" wig which could NEVER be described as LONG. a bob is a very very short haircut. since inmate couldn't recognize a photo of Helena just 2 months after the murders AND he himself said that she had a distinctive nose and he'd remember that nose it is painfully obvious to anyone who has a couple of functional brain cells that Helena WAS NOT involved and that inmate made up the story. Strengthen that FACT with his non-reaction to Helena when she was brought to the trial and can anyone other than me say "consciousness of guilt"?
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Old 18th January 2018, 09:34 AM   #3525
Henri McPhee
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The description MacDonald gave of the murderers matched that of the Stoeckley group, and which Detective Beasley would have heard over a police radio:

http://people.com/crime/jeffrey-macd...-beret-family/

Quote:
Stoeckley and Mitchell ran with a group of people they called their “cult” — two of the members matched descriptions of the other two alleged intruders given by MacDonald: A black man wearing a green Army fatigue jacket with sergeant stripes, and a white man with pock marks on his chin and cheeks.

Black man wearing Army fatigue jacket with E6 stripes on sleeve.
Exhibit: U.S v. MacDonald

White male with pock marks on his cheeks and chin
Exhibit: U.S v. MacDonald

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 18th January 2018 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 18th January 2018, 11:07 AM   #3526
byn63
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The description of the "alleged intruders" DID NOT MATCH HELENA OR ANY OF HER FRIENDS ANY MORE THAN VERY VERY PERIPHERALLY. There were hundreds (if not thousands) of me wearing Army Fatigue Jackets with E6 stripes. As shocking as it may seem to you henri there are hundreds of thousands of white men with "pock marked" faces but none of the "alleged Stoeckley group" matched that description.....one of the members of the NY Four did match that description.

Again, HELENA had BROWN HAIR relatively short and the BLONDE WIG she sometimes wore (although she admittedly denied having it on the night of the murders) WAS A BOB CUT therefore there is NO WAY ANYONE COULD DESCRIBE IT AS LONG AND STRINGY WHICH IS INDEED HOW INMATE DESCRIBED THE ALLEGED FEMALE INTRUDER. Also, as I have pointed out several times, Helena had a distinctive nose and inmate could not and did not identify her at the April 4 interview with CID when they showed him the photo. He himself said "I would've remembered that nose" which is the same as saying "that is not the female intruder" and FYI no matter what type of wig her NOSE would not have changed.
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Old 18th January 2018, 11:31 AM   #3527
JTF
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Inmate Is Describing The NYF

Inmate just happens to visit his brother at Fire Island 6 months before the murders. Jay MacDonald just happens to share a residence with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of the mythical hippie home invaders. Inmate just happens to be seen by several witnesses conversing with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of his brother's roommates. Who were Jay MacDonald's roommates?

Dubbed by the CID as the "New York Four," Kenneth Barnett, Annette Cullity, Gary Burnett, and Joseph Lee were sharing a residence with Jay MacDonald in the Summer of 1969. Joseph Lee was an African-American male, Gary Burnett and Kenneth Barnett were Caucasian males, and Annette Cullity was a Caucasian female. When the New York Four were arrested in Suffolk County, Lee was wearing an army field jacket and Cullity was known to wear a floppy hat and hip boots.

The number of intruders, their racial make-up, and their clothing items all matched the descriptions provided by Jeffrey MacDonald. CID agent Bennie Hawkins obtained fingerprint exemplars of the New York Four and their prints did not match any of the prints found at 544 Castle Drive. Bennie Hawkins testified to the following at the Article 32 hearing.

Somers: Can you describe this group?

Hawkins: Yes, sir, it was a group of four. There were three males and one female in the group. The one male, Negro, approximately 5-9 in height, 170 pounds in weight, black hair, brown eyes. There were two Caucasian males, one of them approximately 5-10 in height with dark brown hair, hazel eyes, of about medium build. The other Caucasian male was approximately 5-6 in height, blond hair, and blue eyes. The female approximately 5-5 to 5-6 in height, 110 pounds in weight. She had blond hair and blue eyes.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

Last edited by JTF; 18th January 2018 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 18th January 2018, 04:46 PM   #3528
desmirelle
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
<snip>

Detective Beasley immediately suspected the Stoeckley group and Mazerolle when the description Jeff MacDonald had given when the MacDonald murders happened, because they were people known to the local police. Beasley had to let them go from the police station because the Army CID were not interested. They had decided MacDonald did it from the first minute and they were supported in that theory without facts by the FBI.
Which shows you know nothing about the US Army and CID. They'd have gotten letters of recommendations had they been able to find those mythical hippies and exonerate CPT Macdonald. And probably promotions for the lead investigators. The army doesn't like for their personnel to present themselves as murdering slime, especially in 1970 when the Vietnam War is unpopular and soldiers are being spit on and called 'baby-killers'.
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Old 18th January 2018, 07:10 PM   #3529
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The description MacDonald gave of the murderers matched that of the Stoeckley group, and which Detective Beasley would have heard over a police radio:

http://people.com/crime/jeffrey-macd...-beret-family/
You'll need to explain how seeing a black man with E6 rank on their jacket or shirt would be "remarkable" on base at Ft. Bragg.
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Old Yesterday, 07:56 PM   #3530
JTF
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Joseph Lee

Piggybacking on BStrong's post, the only "remarkable" aspect of inmate's description of the mythical black male intruder is that no member of the television media has pointed out that Joseph Lee matched that description to a tee. This includes his physical characteristics and the type of clothing he wore in 1970. I'll give Fred Bost a little credit in that he publicly admitted that Dwight Smith did not match inmate's description of the black male intruder.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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