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Old 13th January 2018, 04:36 AM   #1521
Samson
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The algo just said buy bitcoin.
Last 13919

That is computer driven, no emotion.....
It's run its course.
Expect a dramatic drop next week.

The fat lady will sing.
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Old 13th January 2018, 06:33 AM   #1522
Eddie Dane
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It's run its course.
Expect a dramatic drop next week.

The fat lady will sing.
Calling the market?

Not saying you're wrong. I can see that happening.

The recent rise was driven by greed and people who don't know much about crypto and investing. They might get spooked by the recent drop.

OTOH, this might be a plateau and then it can rise again as it did before.

Is there enough reason for the latecomers to get spooked?
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Old 13th January 2018, 07:26 AM   #1523
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Those pining for a currency backed by some hunks of metal:

What inherent value or worth is the metal drawing from?

You can't eat, drink, or breathe gold/silver. It's a terrible choice for constructing a dwelling against the elements. I'd love to see more of it used in electronics, but that's unfeasible because of the same reason I'm driving towards. Which is that it's most "valued" purpose is being shaped and polished into "something pretty."

It has value because of some irrational attachment to shiny things. Enough people covet it so as to create a pervasive sense of it "having value." That's tapped from our mammalian brain, "someone else wants those berries, must be something to them..."

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be
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Old 13th January 2018, 08:19 AM   #1524
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It's run its course.
Expect a dramatic drop next week.

The fat lady will sing.
Buy at 13919 - was that a real or notional 'buy'?
After that it hit a peak of 14530, so if you closed the real/notional position exactly at the right time the trade would gain some 610 points, though in reality less unless the 'algo' or its user is staggeringly smart. Given the recent volatility I can't see anyone taking a huge position on that 'buy', so how much did it make?
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Old 13th January 2018, 10:51 AM   #1525
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Silver was losing value against gold. Various agencies demonetised it; not only the USA.

Here's the Latin Monetary UnionWP
In 1873 the value of silver dropped significantly, followed by a sharp increase in silver imports in the LMU countries, particularly in France and Belgium.[12] By 1873, the decreasing value of silver made it profitable to mint silver in exchange for gold at the Union's standard rate of 15.5 ounces to 1. Indeed, in all of 1871 and 1872 the French mint had received just 5,000,000 francs of silver for conversion to coin, but in 1873 alone received 154,000,000 francs. Fearing an influx of silver coinage, the member nations of the Union agreed in Paris on January 30, 1874, to limit the free conversion of silver temporarily. By 1878, with no recovery in the silver price in sight, minting of silver coinage was suspended absolutely
Sounds like a scam. They never needed to demonetize it, at worst they could have just changed the ratio. And Silver was the unit of account, not gold. In fact, the US dollar was the Spanish mill dollar, which contained 371.25 grains of fine silver.

The Federal Reserve Note has collapsed some 98% since its inception, but we don't see many people talking about demonetizing it.
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Old 13th January 2018, 10:54 AM   #1526
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Those pining for a currency backed by some hunks of metal:

What inherent value or worth is the metal drawing from?
Since this isn't immediately obvious to you for some reason, it's because precious metals are scarce. The value is in knowing that money must be at best earned, or at worst physically stolen. It's knowing that there is no group insidiously counterfeiting or manufacturing large quantities of it for themselves and their own benefit, to acquire real wealth at the expense of everyone else.
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Old 13th January 2018, 11:29 AM   #1527
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Since this isn't immediately obvious to you for some reason, it's because precious metals are scarce. The value is in knowing that money must be at best earned, or at worst physically stolen. It's knowing that there is no group insidiously counterfeiting or manufacturing large quantities of it for themselves and their own benefit, to acquire real wealth at the expense of everyone else.
Heh take away all the heavy stuff and you could be talking about bitcoin.
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Old 13th January 2018, 02:07 PM   #1528
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Buy at 13919 - was that a real or notional 'buy'?
After that it hit a peak of 14530, so if you closed the real/notional position exactly at the right time the trade would gain some 610 points, though in reality less unless the 'algo' or its user is staggeringly smart. Given the recent volatility I can't see anyone taking a huge position on that 'buy', so how much did it make?
The algo simply generates a buy zone, in this case anywhere from 13316 to 13800. A low of 13370 was reached about 6 hours after the trigger. If you check an hourly hi lo chart you will see exactly. In broad terms the profit target is anywhere above the high before the buy zone, or 14100.
I can't trade it on the platform I use, and on CME the futures depoit is 40%, so hardly worth bothering with. But in general terms it trades like any other market from a technical perspective. Since it has passed 14100 all bets are off, it may continue up, but I have a naturally negative view of it, the 1400 identical clones are the problem I have.
Now imagine if it was pegged to a basket of currencies and had a stable value, then my criminal enterprises would embrace it...
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Old 13th January 2018, 03:24 PM   #1529
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The algo simply generates a buy zone, in this case anywhere from 13316 to 13800
Then why buy at 13919?
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Old 13th January 2018, 04:16 PM   #1530
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Then why buy at 13919?
That is a good question. I did say last price, rather than wade right in. For completeness I could have nominated the zone and the stop level, but after being ridiculed on TA thread for my stunningly accurate predictions I tend to make less effort. It is worth also recalling my sell call that saw a 20 % drop in short order.

My pleasure Glen, don't mention it.
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Old 13th January 2018, 04:21 PM   #1531
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While on the subject, a break of 14000 in the next hour or so sees the algo trigger a short that will work.
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:19 PM   #1532
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Each valid block is actually one of the 21 million Names of God.

Once they're all mined, it won't matter how much they're worth.
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:36 PM   #1533
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
While on the subject, a break of 14000 in the next hour or so sees the algo trigger a short that will work.
And here it is. All ducks in a row, bon soir cryptos.
Last 14000.
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:38 PM   #1534
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Buy gold as soon as you all can, they are not cloning the stuff.

Last 1337, look for 300 dollars higher this year.

Good luck all.
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:46 PM   #1535
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Buy gold as soon as you all can, they are not cloning the stuff.
They're cloning bitcoin?
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Old 13th January 2018, 09:54 PM   #1536
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
They're cloning bitcoin?
Yes. No barrier to entry, just a word, bitcoin, bitoffluff, bitofnonsense a la Alice in Wonderland. If I say it three times it is true, and so on. Bitcoin is just a word. I could be wrong, but this time it's different.
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Old 13th January 2018, 10:45 PM   #1537
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
They're cloning bitcoin?
Which crypto-planet have you been one lately? The clones are spreading like viruses.

Check https://www.worldcoinindex.com/coin/

And look at the first 100 listings. Over the past few days, I have seen them go up together and go down together.

I saw an crypto advert offering 20% bonus to the first buyers. Where do you think the "value" to pay that is being generated?
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Old 13th January 2018, 10:58 PM   #1538
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Yes. No barrier to entry, just a word, bitcoin, bitoffluff, bitofnonsense a la Alice in Wonderland. If I say it three times it is true, and so on. Bitcoin is just a word. I could be wrong, but this time it's different.
That actually makes more sense than your TA nonsense.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Which crypto-planet have you been one lately? The clones are spreading like viruses.
That's like saying there are lots of clones of gold. Eg. silver, diamonds, oil, etc.
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Old 13th January 2018, 11:05 PM   #1539
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That actually makes more sense than your TA nonsense.


That's like saying there are lots of clones of gold. Eg. silver, diamonds, oil, etc.
You never debated TA you just derided.
And there are no clones of gold or the others, the supply is finite.
The supply of cryptos is infinite. If you really hold bitcoin you might read the tealeaves and cash up.
Buy gold, I guarantee that is a finite supply.
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Old 13th January 2018, 11:20 PM   #1540
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You never debated TA you just derided.
And there are no clones of gold or the others, the supply is finite.
The supply of cryptos is infinite. If you really hold bitcoin you might read the tealeaves and cash up.
Buy gold, I guarantee that is a finite supply.
When you make Luddite statements like "bitcoin is just a word" or that all crypto currencies are the same then I don't need to deride your TA.

You make a laughing stock of yourself without anybody's help.
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:00 AM   #1541
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
When you make Luddite statements like "bitcoin is just a word" or that all crypto currencies are the same then I don't need to deride your TA.

You make a laughing stock of yourself without anybody's help.
I am sure many people are keen to understand the difference between bitcoin and the 1400 other cryptos.
If the difference is that it is the first, so enjoys a unique brand advantage, that is one proposition. Are there other differences?
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:15 AM   #1542
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I am sure many people are keen to understand the difference between bitcoin and the 1400 other cryptos.
If the difference is that it is the first, so enjoys a unique brand advantage, that is one proposition. Are there other differences?
Are all precious metals the same?

If you place an order for bitcoin and you are just as happy to receive litecoin instead then you are a very unique individual.
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:20 AM   #1543
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Are all precious metals the same?

If you place an order for bitcoin and you are just as happy to receive litecoin instead then you are a very unique individual.
The odd thing is I see totally genuine curiosity on the thread.
How does bitcoin differ from the other cryptos?
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:24 AM   #1544
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And metals differ by the number of protons in the nucleus, these are not easy to change. Merging neutron stars created these conglomerations, there will be no further production available in this cute solar system.
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:33 AM   #1545
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
How does bitcoin differ from the other cryptos?
Already explained. The fact that you don't believe that there is any difference whatsoever between gold and silver bitcoin and litecoin is your problem.
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Old 14th January 2018, 01:10 AM   #1546
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Already explained. The fact that you don't believe that there is any difference whatsoever between gold and silver bitcoin and litecoin is your problem.
You drove me to research, the gold silver price ratio was 50 to one, but lately closer to 80. And allo allo the ratio in earth's crust is 70 to 1. How platonic is that??
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Old 14th January 2018, 01:15 AM   #1547
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Some ratios
63 53 iodine I 0.14 0.490 0.450 31,600
64 48 cadmium Cd 0.11 0.15 0.15 23,000
65 47 silver Ag 0.070 0.080 0.075 27,000
66 80 mercury Hg 0.05 0.067 0.085 4,500
67 34 selenium Se 0.05 0.05 0.05 2,200
68 49 indium In 0.049 0.160 0.250 655
69 83 bismuth Bi 0.048 0.025 0.0085 10,200
70 52 tellurium Te 0.005 0.001 0.001 2,200
71 78 platinum Pt 0.003 0.0037 0.005 172
72 79 gold Au 0.0011 0.0031 0.004 3,100
73 44 ruthenium Ru 0.001 0.001 0.001
74 46 palladium Pd 0.0006 0.0063 0.015 208
75 75 rhenium Re 0.0004 0.0026 0.0007 47.2
76 77 iridium Ir 0.0003 0.0004 0.001
77 45 rhodium Rh 0.0002 0.0007 0.001
78 76 osmium Os 0.0001 0.0018 0.0015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abunda...arth%27s_crust

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Old 14th January 2018, 02:16 AM   #1548
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So?
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Old 14th January 2018, 02:28 AM   #1549
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Supply/demand/price obeys math(s). Something like a god prescribed the ratios that can never change.

Is this true in the crypto soap opera?
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Old 14th January 2018, 02:51 AM   #1550
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Supply/demand/price obeys math(s). Something like a god prescribed the ratios that can never change.

Is this true in the crypto soap opera?
I don't know what a "crypto soap opera" is. (I suspect that is the name you gave to crypto currencies because your TA doesn't work on them).

I know that most of the crypto currencies each have a hard limit so that when fully mined, there will be a fixed ratio between them.

Now let's see your next excuse for why differences in precious metals matter but differences in crypto currencies don't.
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Old 14th January 2018, 05:15 AM   #1551
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That actually makes more sense than your TA nonsense.


That's like saying there are lots of clones of gold. Eg. silver, diamonds, oil, etc.

No. When people can make gold from lead without using massive amounts of power then there will be gold clones.

Diamonds have clones because they can now be manufactured artificially. That decreases the value.

Oil has clones such as natural gas, shale oil and oil from coal. They have stopped the price of oil from getting too high. Oil can be replaced by solar and nuclear also.

Gold is easy to check because of it's mass and it's properties.
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Old 14th January 2018, 05:24 AM   #1552
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I don't know what a "crypto soap opera" is. (I suspect that is the name you gave to crypto currencies because your TA doesn't work on them).

I know that most of the crypto currencies each have a hard limit so that when fully mined, there will be a fixed ratio between them.

Now let's see your next excuse for why differences in precious metals matter but differences in crypto currencies don't.

They (whoever "they" are) already forked (??) the bitcoin, and are talking about modifying the rules. Modifying the rules means that bitcoin is a program that is subject to change. Change the rules and make the limit 21 billion coins and then 21 trillion coins. All it takes is for the "rules" to change.

Give me Kruger rands rather that a bit of paper saying I have so many bitcoins. If the global economy crashes, I am very certain my gold will have value and that cryptos will not. The main Sunday newspaper spoke about a bear market being overdue, and said that cryptos will be sorely tested and probably not survive.

I support Samson in what he says.
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Old 14th January 2018, 09:06 AM   #1553
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You drove me to research, the gold silver price ratio was 50 to one, but lately closer to 80. And allo allo the ratio in earth's crust is 70 to 1. How platonic is that??
As noted above, in 1873 in the USA and Europe it was 15.5 to 1. Thereafter silver started to decline sharply as advancing technology made poorer and poorer quality ore available for refining. Silver never recovered its former purchasing power, and was generally demonetised. Britain in fact went over to a monometallic gold standard as early as 1717.
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Old 14th January 2018, 09:17 AM   #1554
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
No. When people can make gold from lead without using massive amounts of power then there will be gold clones.
So all crypto currencies are the same and all precious metals are distinct and different. Massive FAIL.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
They (whoever "they" are) already forked (??) the bitcoin, and are talking about modifying the rules. Modifying the rules means that bitcoin is a program that is subject to change. Change the rules and make the limit 21 billion coins and then 21 trillion coins. All it takes is for the "rules" to change.
Where do you get this **** from? Your backside?

Anybody who has the slightest idea of what they are talking about knows that there is no central authority to modify bitcoin. It has to be a consensus among all of the users and miners. They couldn't even agree on a change to the blockchain size (hence the bitcash fork which is a completely different commodity) and you think that everybody is going to vote to dilute their BTC holdings by massively increasing the supply of BTC?


Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
If the global economy crashes, I am very certain my gold will have value and that cryptos will not.
That is pure wishful thinking. It would take a zombie apocalypse or some other global disaster that destroys the internet (or puts it out of reach to the vast majority) to make some bulky medium you can easily be mugged for more attractive than crypto currencies.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The main Sunday newspaper spoke about a bear market being overdue, and said that cryptos will be sorely tested and probably not survive.
Ooh! The main Sunday newspaper! Then it must be the absolute truth. Those journalists know more about this than everybody else.
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:03 PM   #1555
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
(snip)
Like!

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That is pure wishful thinking. It would take a zombie apocalypse or some other global disaster that destroys the internet (or puts it out of reach to the vast majority) to make some bulky medium you can easily be mugged for more attractive than crypto currencies.

No. Just people wanting to cash out en masse. And I would be very careful carrying gold. Just a bit at a time. And why would they mug me - because it has value!!!

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Ooh! The main Sunday newspaper! Then it must be the absolute truth. Those journalists know more about this than everybody else.

When the Sunday Times starts to worry about the next bear market when there are so many other things in SA to worry about, it must be a concern.
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Old 14th January 2018, 03:03 PM   #1556
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When the zombie apocalypse comes then I suppose those with physical gold might be able to trade it for rice and beans, though I'd rather have plenty of rice and beans and be able to drive a hard bargain with the wealthy-but-starving. Unless they have well-armed goons, but that would be why I'd stashed my food well. No worries.

Post-apocalypse I'd trade my gold for mansions and fast cars. Bottom line - bitcoin would not be of use in the case of a zombie apocalypse. Physical assets might, however.
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Old 14th January 2018, 04:24 PM   #1557
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
As noted above, in 1873 in the USA and Europe it was 15.5 to 1. Thereafter silver started to decline sharply as advancing technology made poorer and poorer quality ore available for refining. Silver never recovered its former purchasing power, and was generally demonetised. Britain in fact went over to a monometallic gold standard as early as 1717.
Lol. That's not why it was demonetized. Silver was demonetized by elites who had already hoarded most of the gold, and who benefited from the monetary crisis that they themselves created in 1873. It was the opposite tactic of what they're doing now, now that they have the capacity to create unlimited fiat money. The elite bankers will try to hoard and make money scarcer where it is already scarce, and will create unlimited amounts for themselves where it is fiat and they have the power to do so. This is basic human nature.

From the US Mint:

U.S. Mint History: The “Crime of 1873”

"Unbeknownst to many, the coinage policy had changed with the signing of the 1873 act. Once the bill passed, it was not until the miners took their silver bullion to be minted and were turned away that the public was truly aware of the power and the ramifications of the new bill. Silver had been demonetized.

The inability to “cash in” silver bullion had the greatest impact upon miners, farmers and those who had debts to pay. The working class now had no feasible means to do so. Greenbacks could be redeemed for silver, but with the passage of the Specie Payment Resumption Act of 1875, the legal tender limit could not be greater than five dollars. The Act caused silver prices to fall even more than they previously had (due to oversupply), resulting in an increase in gold prices. It also caused the silver mining western part of the country to be at odds with the gold counting eastern part. The country was divided yet again."
To understand what happened in more detail, read Coin's Financial School. It is a fairly long PDF, but it explains in detail the issues concerning the demonetization of silver, and how it led to the gold standard which ultimately led us to the current corrupt system.

The market price of silver was virtually irrelevant, as explained in the PDF, because silver was the unit of account (not gold!) and it was legal tender. And even if that weren't the case, the bi-metallic ratio could have simply been altered, as the French did prior to the crime of 1873.

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Old 14th January 2018, 04:28 PM   #1558
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Supply/demand/price obeys math(s). Something like a god prescribed the ratios that can never change.

Is this true in the crypto soap opera?
What you don't seem to grasp is that supply is only one half of the equation. There is also demand, and most of the demand for bitcoins on the original bitcoin ledger is based on the network-effect. While future bitcoin forks will slightly decrease the demand for bitcoin, unless they show great utility they probably won't overcome the network effect which essentially comes from being first. So while the theoretical supply of all crypto-currencies is infinite, the practical reality is that the original bitcoin ledger is where most of the value is in the crypto space, at least for now, and the supply of those bitcoins is quite limited, as evident by the $14,000 market price.

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Old 14th January 2018, 06:46 PM   #1559
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Well you can expect the price of a bitcoin transaction going up since apparently the difficulty of mining bitcoins is currently going up 15% a month. I guess Kodak has become a bitcoin mining company which is where I got the figures from.

I would beg to differ. there are some altcoins selling at less than a cent so if it moves up to 2 cents you can make money.
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Old 14th January 2018, 08:01 PM   #1560
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Lol. That's not why it was demonetized. Silver was demonetized by elites who had already hoarded most of the gold, and who benefited from the monetary crisis that they themselves created in 1873. It was the opposite tactic of what they're doing now, now that they have the capacity to create unlimited fiat money. <snip conspiracy tale, but I can't resist leaving this bit in>The market price of silver was virtually irrelevant, as explained in the PDF, because silver was the unit of account (not gold!) and it was legal tender.
So what? In my country there are no legal tender bank notes, by the way.

Silver was demonetised because it was ceasing to function as a stable standard. Whether the monometallic gold standard was the best arrangement or not, its expansion at that time was rationally motivated, and was a response to a real and significant development, not purely the result of a conspiracy. According to you, the gold standard was introduced by plotters, and its end - replacement by fiat money, was likewise the result of a conspiracy.

As I've said before: it's impossible to argue with people who have this frame of mind.

Kennedy blew out his own brains to frame Oswald. Well, prove he didn't. Can you? No, there's no evidence to prove he didnt; so it must be true.
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