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Old 5th December 2022, 02:23 PM   #41
Hans
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Sounds like the old, old algorithm:

I believe in Atlantis.
Thus, evidence for Atlantis must exist.
But this evidence is never forthcoming.
Therefore,
SOMEBODY'S COVERING UP!
Exactly - and there are people (I been interesting and studying fringe for a long time) who actually believe this.

A good quote from GH

"I know this is not science!" -Graham Hancock, ep. 5, (00:14:25)

No ^&% Sherlock!
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Old 5th December 2022, 04:33 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Archaeologists Ask Netflix to Reclassify Graham Hancock’s ‘Unfounded’ Netflix Docuseries ‘Ancient Apocalypse’ as Fiction

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/ar...iction-2222060
Wow...those are some butthurt archeologists. Good thing Hancock didn't call them grave robbers and go on about their white supremacist history of going to BIPOC lands, digging up their sacred sites and swiping their artifacts.
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Old 5th December 2022, 04:43 PM   #43
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On the other hand, there are those who truly believe that blurry images and vague speculations are evidence.
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Old 5th December 2022, 04:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Exactly - and there are people (I been interesting and studying fringe for a long time) who actually believe this.

A good quote from GH

"I know this is not science!" -Graham Hancock, ep. 5, (00:14:25)

No ^&% Sherlock!
Yes, that's where he's talking about the snake/human head, the one that looks nothing like any snake I've ever seen. and talking about his reaction to seeing it.

There's a feeling of fear or of terror that comes with that enclosure. I know this is not science. ( chuckles ) It's just my emotional reaction to what I was seeing. But I can't help wondering if fear and terror were involved in the creation of it as well. If it's expressing something that we need to know about our past. That it's fearful for a reason.
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Old 5th December 2022, 05:26 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
On the other hand, there are those who truly believe that blurry images and vague speculations are evidence.
Well. They are evidence. Of the gullibility of we poor humans most often.
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Old 6th December 2022, 04:04 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yes he took a lot of heat for those 'missteps' originally he located his lost civilization in Antarctic then around the Atlantic and in his last book he placed it in North America with native Americans and not white people.

Near the end of said book - which is the basis for the netflix series he stated
I wonder did he get his latest idea from the episode of Voyager where Chakotay get's naked in the alien settlement.
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Old 6th December 2022, 05:38 PM   #47
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Well, the nonsense and the fact that it's nonsense have made the mainstream media:

Netflix's Ancient Apocalypse series uses 'racist ideologies' to rewrite Indo-Pacific history, experts say

Quote:
Netflix's popular new series Ancient Apocalypse has been criticised by experts on Pacific history who say it is founded on "racist" and "white supremacist" ideologies and promotes pseudoscience.

Hosted by British writer Graham Hancock, the eight-part series travels to locations around the world looking for evidence of lost civilisations dating to the last ice age in a bid to "overthrow the paradigm of history".
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Old 7th December 2022, 11:49 PM   #48
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Graham Hancock himself is a liberal, in fact practically woke - to ascribe "racism" to him only demonstrates just how absurd the rationalising of so-called progressives is, people who are better understood as pathological conformists.
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Old 8th December 2022, 12:25 AM   #49
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What part of "Pacific islanders were too stupid to be able to build this" isn't racist?
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Old 8th December 2022, 01:13 AM   #50
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Pointing at someone and shouting "raycis!" is indeed a quite reasonable critique. In certain people's minds.
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Old 8th December 2022, 03:34 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
What part of "Pacific islanders were too stupid to be able to build this" isn't racist?
Because it's not based on their race, but on their level of technological and scientific development at that point. I mean, if someone discovered a laser pointer in an unopened tomb in Egypt, I'd think they couldn't have made that, not because I'm racist against ancient Egyptians, but because they just didn't have the technology for that.

He's making the same type of argument with respect to Pacific Islanders. He's wrong, though, because the things they did didn't require advanced technology, though to the uneducated it can seem that way.

(I think he's completely bonkers, to be clear).
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Old 8th December 2022, 04:05 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot
Well, the nonsense and the fact that it's nonsense have made the mainstream media:

Netflix's Ancient Apocalypse series uses 'racist ideologies' to rewrite Indo-Pacific history, experts say

Quote:
Netflix's popular new series Ancient Apocalypse has been criticised by experts on Pacific history who say it is founded on "racist" and "white supremacist" ideologies and promotes pseudoscience.

Hosted by British writer Graham Hancock, the eight-part series travels to locations around the world looking for evidence of lost civilisations dating to the last ice age in a bid to "overthrow the paradigm of history".
Pretty sure Hancock is concentrating on the highlighted bit of this exercise. Because the controversy pays for it.
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Old 8th December 2022, 08:40 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Pointing at someone and shouting "raycis!" is indeed a quite reasonable critique. In certain people's minds.
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

Take the late-to-the-party Australians posted above. In the show Hancock speculates that this advanced society may have originated in Sundaland, sailed to Pohnpei, and had something to do with the construction of Nan Madol. No White people involved.

Actually, come to think of it, did White people even exist 12 800 years ago?

Just for fun, the Pohnpeian origin story of Nan Madol.

Quote:
According to Pohnpeian legend, Nan Madol was constructed by twin sorcerers Olisihpa and Olosohpa from the mythical Western Katau, or Kanamwayso. The brothers arrived in a large canoe seeking a place to build an altar so that they could worship Nahnisohn Sahpw, the god of agriculture. After several false starts, the two brothers successfully built an altar off Temwen Island, where they performed their rituals. In legend, these brothers levitated the huge stones with the aid of a flying dragon. When Olisihpa died of old age, Olosohpa became the first Saudeleur. Olosohpa married a local woman and sired twelve generations, producing sixteen other Saudeleur rulers of the Dipwilap ("Great") clan
Were these two brothers arriving by ship the "aliens" that the ABC link was quoting Augustine Kohler on or was Augustine Kohler thinking about Ancient Aliens and mixing this show up with this one?
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Old 8th December 2022, 01:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

Actually, come to think of it, did White people even exist 12 800 years ago?
Complicated:

Variations in the KITL gene have been positively associated with about 20% of melanin concentration differences between African and non-African populations. One of the alleles of the gene has an 80% occurrence rate in Eurasian populations.

Variations in the SLC24A5 gene account for 20–25% of the variation between dark and light skinned populations of Africa, and appear to have arisen as recently as within the last 10,000 years. The Ala111Thr or rs1426654 polymorphism in the coding region of the SLC24A5 gene reaches fixation in Europe, but is found across the globe, particularly among populations in Northern Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia.
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Old 9th December 2022, 04:13 PM   #55
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I can't tell whether that's a yes or a no but it doesn't make it seem that there were a bunch of pale skinned befreckled red heads running around high fiving each other about how superior they were to those losers that turned right when they came out of Africa.

Nobody came out of watching Ancient Apocalypse thinking Hell Ya White People ! No extremists were emboldened by the series that's as much ************ as the claim posted upthread that Jordan Peterson was in this series. Michael Shermer made an appearance though.

Is it obvious after the first 5 minutes of the show that you're watching something dodgy? Yes, more than obvious.

Does Hancock overplay his wining about mainstream archaeology rejection his theory due to lack of evidence? Of course he does, to a cringe worthy degree.

Did anybody look this stuff up and try to see for themselves whether Ancient Apocalypse was trying to put one over on them? Probably, and if they did, that would be cool.
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Old 9th December 2022, 04:31 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Did anybody look this stuff up and try to see for themselves whether Ancient Apocalypse was trying to put one over on them? Probably, and if they did, that would be cool.
He was talking about stuff that has been in the fringe world for years. Nothing new really other than his moving his lost civilization from where he'd said it was originally in earlier books to North America and populating it with Native Americans.

The stuff he was talking about has been beaten up and endless discussed well before he shouted it in his film.

He has his own forum: https://grahamhancock.com/phorum/list.php?1
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Old 9th December 2022, 05:03 PM   #57
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Hey thanks for that. I'll give it a look to see what's being said about this show.

Funny thing is, I got this series from a website that prides itself on not hosting conspiracy videos and I'd never even heard of this guy before. I was most of the way through it before I happened on this thread and it's accompanying controversies.
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Old 10th December 2022, 01:55 AM   #58
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You don't have to accept Hancock's ideas when rejecting orthodoxy (nothing he presents is particularly original, but he does it in a way that seems to sell well to the otherwise uninformed).

The fact is the Earth is littered with 'cyclopean' ruins (and other artefacts) that simply cannot be accounted for by the latter. The evidence for the "end of the Ice Age" as a global catastrophe (followed by many centuries of periodic, disastrous floods from 'melt water pulses') is quite obvious and falsifies the 'gradualist' or 'uniformitarian' paradigm that conformists cling to pathologically.

Their psychology reminds me of so-called 'survivor guilt' ("I could have done more to save others"), which is actually rooted in the desire re-assert the belief that one is actually in control, the "captain of one's own destiny" after the frightening realisation that any one of us can be ended in an instant by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hence the rather irrational reactions to Hancock's supposed "irrationality".
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Old 10th December 2022, 04:15 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
The evidence for the "end of the Ice Age" as a global catastrophe (followed by many centuries of periodic, disastrous floods from 'melt water pulses') is quite obvious
And undisputed, so far as I'm aware, by "orthodoxy". I know that Britain was colonised and abandoned several times as glaciers repeatedly advanced and retreated at the end of the last period of glaciation before they finally retreated for the last time, and people were able to return and stay, about 10,000 years ago, and I must have got that information from "orthodoxy" as I don't read the likes of Hancock.

This wiki entry matches my understanding:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catast...formitarianism

Quote:
One of the key differences between catastrophism and uniformitarianism is that uniformitarianism observes the existence of vast timelines, whereas catastrophism does not. Today most geologists combine catastrophist and uniformitarianist standpoints, taking the view that Earth's history is a slow, gradual story punctuated by occasional natural catastrophic events that have affected Earth and its inhabitants.[13]
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Old 30th December 2022, 03:51 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Archaeologists Ask Netflix to Reclassify Graham Hancock’s ‘Unfounded’ Netflix Docuseries ‘Ancient Apocalypse’ as Fiction

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/ar...iction-2222060
Doubt that will amount to anything. Hancock’s son is an executive at Netflix and the producer of the show. One that seems to be quite successful.
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Old 30th December 2022, 08:20 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by crhkrebs View Post
Doubt that will amount to anything. Hancock’s son is an executive at Netflix and the producer of the show. One that seems to be quite successful.
Ah, that would explain a lot.
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Old 30th December 2022, 08:29 PM   #62
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So it won't matter what they reclassify it as, as long as it makes money for Netflix. IOW, as usual with this pixie-unicorn stuff, follow the money...
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Old 30th December 2022, 09:05 PM   #63
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The Discovery Channel (remember them?) went downhill fast when they started showing all sorts of unscientific programs.

Newsweek 2015: Discovery Channel Is Finally Breaking Up With Bad Science
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This story originally appeared on Mother Jones and is reproduced here as part of the Climate Desk collaboration.

John Hoffman is the new boss of documentaries at the Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, and the Science Channel, and he wants you to know big changes are coming to the networks sometimes criticized for favoring overcooked "docu-tainment" over scientifically accurate programming. ...

Animal Planet has also aired two documentary-style programs purporting to present evidence that mermaids are real, as well as a similar program about Bigfoot. Asked in 2012 if fake science dented the brand, Animal Planet's chief at the time, Majorie Kaplan, said "I don't think so, or I wouldn't put it on... The audience voted with their remotes."

In 2014, Discovery's "Shark Week" aired Megalodon, a film that claimed the largest predatory shark that ever lived was still alive. (It's not.) Infuriating wildlife advocates, last year's Eaten Alive promised to show a man being swallowed whole by an anaconda. (He wasn't.) Oh, and don't forget 2012's zombie "documentary," either.
It was too late in my book.
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Old 1st January 2023, 11:26 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The Discovery Channel (remember them?) went downhill fast when they started showing all sorts of unscientific programs.

Newsweek 2015: Discovery Channel Is Finally Breaking Up With Bad ScienceIt was too late in my book.
And hasn't actually happened. They still show all manner of crap. Among the very many channels owned by Discovery Communications is The Travel Channel, home 24/7 ghost hunting programs.
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Old 1st January 2023, 03:58 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The Discovery Channel (remember them?) went downhill fast when they started showing all sorts of unscientific programs.

Newsweek 2015: Discovery Channel Is Finally Breaking Up With Bad ScienceIt was too late in my book.
Credibility is easy to lose - very hard to regain.
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Old 1st January 2023, 05:19 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And hasn't actually happened. They still show all manner of crap. Among the very many channels owned by Discovery Communications is The Travel Channel, home 24/7 ghost hunting programs.
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Credibility is easy to lose - very hard to regain.
Do they still get a great swag of income from this dross? Yes? Then they will keep doing it.
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Old 3rd January 2023, 06:22 PM   #67
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I haven't taken Hancock seriously in decades. Fingerprints of the Gods, was full of non-mysteries being turned into mysteries. For example Hancock's nonsense about Machu Picchu, Palenque, Tiwanaku, crustal displacement, Edgar Cayce and of course the Piri Reis map all served to put him firmly in dated Alternadoxy territory. Nothing new there.

Since then we got Hancock boosting the face on Mars nonsense and who can forget, (Many have it seems.), his Mayan 2012 nonsense.

Hancock has discovered a gravy train and is milking it for all it's worth.

Last edited by Pacal; 3rd January 2023 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 3rd January 2023, 07:45 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
Hancock has discovered a gravy train and is milking it for all it's worth.
It's his golden goose laying magic beans.

Amplified all the way by the usual cranks like Joe Rogan.
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Old 8th January 2023, 09:45 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It's his golden goose laying magic beans.

Amplified all the way by the usual cranks like Joe Rogan.
And the so-called "History" Channel.
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Old 12th January 2023, 05:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
And the so-called "History" Channel.
Oh, for the good old days when it was nicknamed "The Hitler Channel".
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