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Old 29th January 2023, 08:55 PM   #761
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Italy needs to get off its butt and get its action plan filed. It's been 4 years since the ruling on Knox vs Italy. One could infer dragging it out this long is intentional.
And it's been 3 years since Italy sent the preliminary communication* (not an action plan) to the CoE's Committee of Ministers.

Each communication or lack of communication to the CoM by Italy is of course intentional.

Italy currently has 57 pending leading cases before the CoM. Of these, to date Italy has failed to provide an action plan on five, including Knox v. Italy. (No action plan was required for four of the 57; Italy has provided an action plan for each of the other 48.)**

* https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=DH-DD(2020)27F

** https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22EXECDocumentTypeCollection%22:[%22CEC%22],%22EXECLanguage%22:[%22ENG%22],%22EXECState%22:[%22ITA%22],%22EXECIsClosed%22:[%22False%22],%22EXECType%22:[%22L%22]}

ETA: On my previous post #759, text should be added and a date should be corrected as follows:

Note that although Russia was expelled from the CoE on 16 March 2022, applications submitted regarding alleged violations or relevant acts committed up to 16 September 2022 remain valid for ECHR consideration, and under international law (the CoE treaty) the anticipated judgment for any of those cases remains binding on Russia.***

*** https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/S...ary_JY_ENG.pdf
See page 2.

Last edited by Numbers; 29th January 2023 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 30th January 2023, 02:08 PM   #762
Stacyhs
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Do you know what the average time is for Italy submitting an action plan?
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Old 30th January 2023, 06:12 PM   #763
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This thread will end when:
(a)The board dies 'cause of everyone leaving.
(b)The five people posting lose their laptops and phones and tablets.
(c) 42. because of course
(d)The entire internet itself collapses
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Old 30th January 2023, 06:25 PM   #764
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
This thread will end when:
(a)The board dies 'cause of everyone leaving.
(b)The five people posting lose their laptops and phones and tablets.
(c) 42. because of course
(d)The entire internet itself collapses
It will die when Italy files their required action plan and rectifies the calunnia conviction.

But you can bet your last dime that certain people will continue to claim Knox and Sollecito are guilty because they can't admit they are wrong.
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Old 30th January 2023, 06:52 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
This thread will end when:
(a)The board dies 'cause of everyone leaving.
(b)The five people posting lose their laptops and phones and tablets.
(c) 42. because of course
(d)The entire internet itself collapses
My bet is on (b), based on personal experience.
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Old 30th January 2023, 07:24 PM   #766
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Do you know what the average time is for Italy submitting an action plan?
I've made some attempts to calculate an average and a range.

But I think that isn't very useful in trying to estimate when a specific case such as Knox v. Italy gets an action plan.

There are several issues in trying to get a meaningful estimate.

Italy will (at least sometimes) relatively quickly provide an action plan for an "easy" or relatively non-controversial case or one that the CoM names as under "enhanced supervision" (meaning critical in the CoM's view for some general or specific human rights issue and frequently reviewed by the CoM). However, that initial action plan may not be satisfactory to the CoM, so it will ask for a revision.

For example, two ECHR judgments against Italy were published on 24 January 2019, with the judgments becoming final on 24 June 2019:

Cordella and Others v. Italy 54414/13 and

Knox v. Italy 76577/13.

The Cordella case is about Italy's failure to take necessary measures to mitigate air pollution from a steelworks that negatively affects the health of a surrounding population. Contrary to the need to protect the population's health, Italy had passed one or more laws shielding the steelworks from accountability and apparently allowing the pollution levels to continue unabated. The case was placed under Enhanced Supervision by the CoM.

Italy has to date sent 4 communications (letters) on the case to the CoM, the first in December 2019 and the latest in March 2023.

Italy provided the CoM with an Action Plan in January 2021. However, the CoM continues to seek a response from Italy on the CoM's last supervisory request, which suggests that the AP was not fully satisfactory or Italy has not satisfactorily carried it out or both. It appears that the just satisfaction has not yet been paid.

In contrast, Knox v. Italy relates most directly to the wrongful conviction of one individual as the result of unfair (and unlawful) actions or in-actions by Italy and the failure of Italy to investigate that individual's credible complaints of mistreatment by Italian authorities. The case is under standard supervision, which may mean that it has not been formally reviewed by the CoM deputies in a quarterly CoM meeting, although it has clearly been reviewed by the Department for the Execution of ECHR Judgments (the CoM staff).

Italy provided a preliminary communication to the CoM on 10 January 2020 acknowledging the acceptance of the ECHR judgment Knox v. Italy and indicating that the just satisfaction was paid.

Italy has not provided an Action Plan stating how the wrongful conviction may be revised, or how Italy would take measures to assure, insofar as possible, that the violations committed by Italy would not be repeated. It's not clear when such an AP would be provided to the CoM.

What can be concluded? Provision of an Action Plan is essential for those cases identified by the CoM as requiring one, but even when Italy provides one, a final resolution of the case may take considerable time. Despite the slowness shown by Italy in these two cases, the CoM has decided in other cases that Italy had satisfactorily resolved the issues and declared those cases finally resolved and closed. Of 225 Leading cases against Italy, the CoM indicates that 168 were finally resolved and closed, while 57, including Knox v. Italy and Cordella and Others v. Italy, remain pending.

Source: https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22EXECDocumentTypeCollection%22:[%22CEC%22],%22EXECLanguage%22:[%22ENG%22],%22EXECState%22:[%22ITA%22],%22EXECType%22:[%22L%22]}

Last edited by Numbers; 30th January 2023 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 30th January 2023, 07:34 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It will die when Italy files their required action plan and rectifies the calunnia conviction.

But you can bet your last dime that certain people will continue to claim Knox and Sollecito are guilty because they can't admit they are wrong.
That addresses Knox v. Italy.

But what about Sollecito v. Italy, which has only reached the stage of the Communication to Italy? The ECHR judgment may be several years from now.
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Old 30th January 2023, 09:17 PM   #768
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Thanks for that info, Numbers.
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Old 30th January 2023, 09:38 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
My bet is on (b), based on personal experience.
haha, I love you and Stacey and certainly don't want that to happen
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