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Old 20th February 2007, 12:02 PM   #1
St.Michael
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Richard & Judy - Ghostly Apparitions

Did anyone see this today on Channel 4?

Quote:
'Deathbed phenomena’, are surprisingly common. According to recent research at King's College London, around 10 per cent of the terminally ill or those caring for them report some kind of mysterious, inexplicable event that gives them a glimpse of an afterlife.

Today Richard & Judy will be joined by Dr Peter Fenwick a Consultant Neuropsychiatrist who has led the research at the Institute of Psychiatry at King’s College and Dr Sam Parnia, Critical Care Doctor and author of ‘What Happens When We Die’ who is one of Britain's leading experts on near-death experiences.

If you have experienced a deathbed phenomenon please contact Professor Fenwick on Peter_fenwick@compuserve.com
Richard & Judy do promote stuff like this all the time. I'm wondering how serious the research is into this phenomenon? I'm particularly interested in the backgrounds of the doctors involved.
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Old 20th February 2007, 01:49 PM   #2
Big Les
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I've been off sick with foul "Exorcist" style projectile vomitting, and in my dehydrated, near-delerious state nearly turned over and watched them. I wish I had now, if only for that invigorating sense of self-righteous indignation that both woo and R&J are able to give me.

They are a pair of credulous numpties pandering to the idle fantasies of bored housewives, hungover students, and slacking builders, and as such should be of little consequence.
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Old 20th February 2007, 02:37 PM   #3
Azrael 5
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No-one trusts Richard and Judy after quiz fix fiasco yesterday! To be fair Judy looks like she has been brought back from dead on a regular basis!!
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Old 20th February 2007, 03:29 PM   #4
Dr B
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Fenwick is supposed to be neuropsychiatrist based in London and Parnia is, I think, a medic.

Fenwick has made a name in NDE research. His work is, in my opinion, fundamentally flawed, logically implausible and heavily biased to the survivalist interpretation. All his 'evidence' boils down to anecdotal reports.

His scientfiic arguments against the 'dying brain' hypothesis of NDE all represent severe misunderstandings of the arguments, as they were made, factual errors, logical errors, and odd claims about the brain that i cannot find sharred by any top neuroscientist.

So - basically his arguments are very poor indeed.

I have less knowledge of Parnia, but some of his arguments on the programme were pure woowoo. A paraphrased example...

"just because a brain area is active during emotion, does not mean that the emotion is based on that brain activity. Its the same for ghosts, just because neural activity may increase during the experience (consistent with hallucination ideas) this does not mean that activity is 'producing' the experience"

Now - in part, some aspects of this argument are interesting, or could be made more interesting if expressed properly - but it is his use of them, and how he expressed them that makes them flawed.

It violates Occam (makes unecessary assumptions), assumes to be true (dualism) that which it seeks to establish as true, and tries to use the 'it does not prove it' as a shoe-horn for forcing in a woowoo idea. I am sure others here, far more qualified than me, can pick out many other flaws in this approach.

In addition - he claimed that mental experience has been shown to occur when the brain is electrically inactive. This is blatantly false. The cases I know of do not show this at all - and he should know better.

To answer the OP - Fenwick's arguments are very poor indeed and he has little consequence in the field of neuroscience of strange experience
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Last edited by Dr B; 20th February 2007 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 22nd February 2007, 11:38 AM   #5
Daryl17
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delete post

Last edited by Daryl17; 22nd February 2007 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 23rd February 2007, 03:27 PM   #6
Daryl17
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Video of the segment uploaded here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vQfzMlkDuk
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Old 27th February 2007, 09:16 AM   #7
Liverpolitan
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Thanks for this. The prog is banal beyond words usually. Glad to see they finally got found out for scamming callers to their "competitions" too. My arse they didn't know what was going on. A severe case of Kerching Blindness.
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