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Tags bible , hell , nde , near death experience

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Old 14th May 2010, 02:45 PM   #1
JonathanClement
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Near death experiences of hell?

He's a transcript of a documentary about people with NDE's.

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/R...xperiences.htm

TL;DR These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!
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Old 14th May 2010, 03:03 PM   #2
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Nobody died. Nobody went anywhere. Nobody came back from the anywhere they didn't go to.
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Old 14th May 2010, 03:07 PM   #3
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So people in traumatic situations have some delusions about mythology that is common in the society they live in, and that means what?

Am i supposed to be so scared by their stories that i immediately join the cult? Is that the point?
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Old 14th May 2010, 03:42 PM   #4
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1) Is it common for paramedics to yell "YOU NEED JESUS!!!" at people on the cusp of death?

2) Am I the only one who thinks the paramedic's behavior might have influenced the nature of the hallucination?
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Old 14th May 2010, 03:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JonathanClement View Post
These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!
I go all over the place in my dreams - and come back. It's generally quite a consistent imaginary world, mostly pleasant enough, although the bathrooms can be hard to find...
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Old 14th May 2010, 04:16 PM   #6
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Assume that Hell exists, and that Satan exists.

Assume that it is Satan's most sincere and heart-felt desire to get as many human souls to come and suffer in Hell with him.

Question.

Why, if a person died and went to Hell, would Satan let that soul return to earth after experiencing Hell, thereby giving it a chance to repent? Seems to me that if there were any truth to this mythology at all, we'd see some people returning from Heaven (to tell other people that its real, and how wonderful it is, so that others will repent and gain paradise, also)...but nobody returning from Hell.
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Old 14th May 2010, 04:30 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Assume that Hell exists, and that Satan exists.

Assume that it is Satan's most sincere and heart-felt desire to get as many human souls to come and suffer in Hell with him.

Question.

Why, if a person died and went to Hell, would Satan let that soul return to earth after experiencing Hell, thereby giving it a chance to repent? Seems to me that if there were any truth to this mythology at all, we'd see some people returning from Heaven (to tell other people that its real, and how wonderful it is, so that others will repent and gain paradise, also)...but nobody returning from Hell.
Because "God wants us to have free will!" or "You wouldn't believe if God DID show you" or some ******** excuse like that.
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Old 14th May 2010, 04:38 PM   #8
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Because God is Chaotic Evil. Think someone like The Joker: they may not be killing you now, but only because there's a funnier way to do it later.
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Old 14th May 2010, 04:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JonathanClement View Post
He's a transcript of a documentary about people with NDE's.
"Ah," nodded Arthur, "Is he. Is he."
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Old 14th May 2010, 05:52 PM   #10
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Are NDEs just a Christian deal?

I'd be curious to know how other religions fare. If they aren't into it, I'm thinking they are missing out on some great woo.

I guess, while I'm at it, I should claim for the Atheist team all those people who came close to death and didn't have an NDE at all.
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Old 14th May 2010, 05:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Are NDEs just a Christian deal?

I'd be curious to know how other religions fare. If they aren't into it, I'm thinking they are missing out on some great woo.

I guess, while I'm at it, I should claim for the Atheist team all those people who came close to death and didn't have an NDE at all.
I'm fairly certain there are NDE's related to other religion!

Infact, in this documentary, they're "Lies from satan!" XD
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:34 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JonathanClement View Post
He's a transcript of a documentary about people with NDE's.

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/R...xperiences.htm

TL;DR These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!

I think you'll find the etymology of 'cretin' both fascinating and apt.
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
1) Is it common for paramedics to yell "YOU NEED JESUS!!!" at people on the cusp of death?

2) Am I the only one who thinks the paramedic's behavior might have influenced the nature of the hallucination?
Anthropological studies indicate that hallucinatory experiences are influenced by socialization. Each hallucinator was found to incorporate cultural factors into the experiences.
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
1) Is it common for paramedics to yell "YOU NEED JESUS!!!" at people on the cusp of death?

2) Am I the only one who thinks the paramedic's behavior might have influenced the nature of the hallucination?
As a medic, no it is not common

BUT .... I have played the role of satan, demon, and angel with some extremely confused patients to calm them down. But hey, they called me those things first !
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Old 15th May 2010, 12:06 AM   #15
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I once had a NDE of hell. It was at an anime convention with a 500 pound man in a pink hello kitty shirt intended for a 12 year old girl. Oh wait..THAT WAS REAL @_@!

But seriously, from what I've read and heard, NDEs are meant to be pleasant experiences your brain conjures up in well, near fatal incidents. Don't know how many 'Hell" ones you'll find, if any.
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Old 15th May 2010, 04:55 AM   #16
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How can anyone not even know about the fire/demons with pitchforks version of Hell? You hardly need to be religious or have a religious background to be familiar with visual representations and literary descriptions of the place. Even if you've never been to an art gallery or read Dante it's impossible to avoid cartoons and advertisements that use images of Hell.
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Old 15th May 2010, 06:43 AM   #17
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To the thread title: There are some posts I've read here that may qualify.
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Old 15th May 2010, 08:00 AM   #18
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We did get one positive thing out of this, though:

In 1972 my life was broken. I was a drug addict. I was a criminal. My family was broken. My wife had filed for divorce a couple of times. My children were afraid of me. I really couldn’t hold a job, my mental state was terrible. - Ronald Reagan
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Old 15th May 2010, 08:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Trent Wray View Post
As a medic, no it is not common

BUT .... I have played the role of satan, demon, and angel with some extremely confused patients to calm them down. But hey, they called me those things first !
You could probably write a book about what you've witnessed concerning NDEs. Perhaps you should, with a skeptical bent of course.
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Old 15th May 2010, 08:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
I think you'll find the etymology of 'cretin' both fascinating and apt.
I see what you did there.
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Old 15th May 2010, 09:02 AM   #21
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Think about this : are vision of NDE influenced by the society and create vision of the local hell/heaven, or were the local hell/heaven description from people which came out alive of NDE in our history, due to our common brain chemistry and the way the brain goes in panick mode in such situation ? Now that would be interresting to find out...
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Old 15th May 2010, 09:31 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Think about this : are vision of NDE influenced by the society and create vision of the local hell/heaven, or were the local hell/heaven description from people which came out alive of NDE in our history, due to our common brain chemistry and the way the brain goes in panick mode in such situation ? Now that would be interresting to find out...
I'd say the first one.We do know the origin for the fires of hell and it has nothing to do with NDE (human sacrifice by fire rituals).

Heaven's origins isn't that hard to figure out either.
I'd say in this case the chicken\egg thing is resolved rather easily.
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Old 16th May 2010, 05:37 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Assume that Hell exists, and that Satan exists.

Assume that it is Satan's most sincere and heart-felt desire to get as many human souls to come and suffer in Hell with him.

Question.

Why, if a person died and went to Hell, would Satan let that soul return to earth after experiencing Hell, thereby giving it a chance to repent? Seems to me that if there were any truth to this mythology at all, we'd see some people returning from Heaven (to tell other people that its real, and how wonderful it is, so that others will repent and gain paradise, also)...but nobody returning from Hell.
From what I have read they finally come back because they are given a second chance only because this is the place of panic, until they call and submit to Jesus.
Who over-rules Satan.

From an atheist:Famous atheists last words before dying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fSFG...eature=related
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Old 16th May 2010, 07:14 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth I View Post
I see what you did there.

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Old 16th May 2010, 05:21 PM   #25
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Oh good, I was afraid it was just be a poorly designed site with unfounded sensationalist tripe on it.
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Old 16th May 2010, 05:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
From an atheist:Famous atheists last words before dying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fSFG...eature=related
Thanks for that, I had suspected it would be the usual innacurate tirade of non relevant quotations from non atheists and some atheists thrown in just to justify the title, just because the person who made it was full of religious fervour where accuracy in making a valid point didn't matter

Boy how wrong was I
If you hadn't have posted it I wouldn't have known that Gandhi was an atheist.

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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Who over-rules Satan.
I do, everytime you post something stupid and I don't tell you to STFU and stop wasting everybodies time

Last edited by Marduk; 16th May 2010 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 17th May 2010, 12:59 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by kerikiwi View Post
Nobody died. Nobody went anywhere. Nobody came back from the anywhere they didn't go to.
If it makes you sleep easier at night, just keep telling yourself that sinner.
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Old 17th May 2010, 01:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by rorylee View Post
If it makes you sleep easier at night, just keep telling yourself that sinner.
Why would I need anything to make me sleep easier?
I was simply stating facts.
What is a sinner?
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Old 17th May 2010, 01:26 AM   #29
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Iodine. It's what's for sinner.
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Old 17th May 2010, 01:29 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by kerikiwi View Post
Why would I need anything to make me sleep easier?
I was simply stating facts.
What is a sinner?
So ami.

Its called psychology. Anyone comes off as you did, dont want to believe in such things cause thats where you know deep down your going. You have sinned, you encourage others to do the same. Quite simple 3 sides, people who encourage the right thing, people who encourage the wrong thing and people who stay out of it.
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Old 17th May 2010, 05:20 AM   #31
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He's like an aussie 154.
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Old 17th May 2010, 05:52 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by rorylee View Post
Anyone comes off as you did, dont want to believe in such things cause thats where you know deep down your going.
Are you saying that people who don't believe in hell do so because they know they're 'going to hell' (that they don't believe in) ?

Quote:
You have sinned, you encourage others to do the same.
What was he encouraging others to do that was sinful (I missed that bit) ?
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Old 17th May 2010, 06:13 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by rorylee View Post
So ami.

Its called psychology. Anyone comes off as you did, dont want to believe in such things cause thats where you know deep down your going. You have sinned, you encourage others to do the same. Quite simple 3 sides, people who encourage the right thing, people who encourage the wrong thing and people who stay out of it.
Frankly, rory, you trying to apply psychology to other people is like a horse trying to ride a cowboy.
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Old 17th May 2010, 06:19 AM   #34
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I went to heaven once but if i hadn't been on Roxicet the experience may have been very different.
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Old 17th May 2010, 06:40 AM   #35
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Late to the thread but I have studied this a bit. There are a number of people who have had frightening or hellish NDEs.

In the cases mentioned in this video, it is not true that all of these atheists had no prior knowledge of hell. In Howard Storm's case, as one example, he was raised a Christian and dropped his religious beliefs in his teenage years.

Regarding cross-cultural studies of NDEs, here is a link with some decent introductory information on the subject: http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...cross-cultural

As I have looked into cross-cultural research, it seems that people see what they have been culturally/religiously conditioned to expect to see, whether they are practicing the particular religion or not. For example, there is an Eastern NDEr whose virtue was defended by a talking chicken, something you would be unlikely to find in a Western NDE. It is common for people in the East to be sent back to earth because of an error in processing, e.g. a mistake was made and they got the wrong person. In Western NDEs that is almost unheard of. Do a search on Thai NDEs for more on this.
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Old 17th May 2010, 06:48 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Assume that Hell exists, and that Satan exists.

Assume that it is Satan's most sincere and heart-felt desire to get as many human souls to come and suffer in Hell with him.

Question.

Why, if a person died and went to Hell, would Satan let that soul return to earth after experiencing Hell, thereby giving it a chance to repent? Seems to me that if there were any truth to this mythology at all, we'd see some people returning from Heaven (to tell other people that its real, and how wonderful it is, so that others will repent and gain paradise, also)...but nobody returning from Hell.

It also strikes me that if Jesus was really set on converting people, the non-Christian NDErs in the rest of the world would be seeing Jesus appear during their experiences to warn them to repent and be saved before it's too late. Is that not what Christian missionaries are trying to do - save souls in distant countries? Would an NDE not be the perfect chance for Jesus to intervene? Instead we find that most non-Christian NDEs involve non-Christian imagery.

It also seems that if accepting Jesus as lord and savior is THE prerequisite to avoid hell, the majority of non-Christian NDEs should involve an experience of hell, which they don't.
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Old 17th May 2010, 07:11 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mirrorglass View Post
Frankly, rory, you trying to apply psychology to other people is like a horse trying to ride a cowboy.
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Old 17th May 2010, 07:43 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
He's like an aussie 154.
You mean he's 451?

Maybe as in "Fahrenheit 451".
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Old 17th May 2010, 04:44 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
You mean he's 451?

Maybe as in "Fahrenheit 451".

No, no!

Take it back!

I love Bradbury. I won't have him associated with these cretins, even in a joke.
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Old 17th May 2010, 05:24 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
...mostly pleasant enough, although the bathrooms can be hard to find...
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