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Tags "Making a Murderer" , Brendan Dassey , documentaries , murder cases , Steven Avery , Teresa Halbach , tv shows

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Old 20th February 2016, 12:24 PM   #2161
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by Snarf View Post
I'm still waiting for any of these critics of the series to provide actual evidence Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach.
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Old 20th February 2016, 04:27 PM   #2162
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Yup. Steven is just a victim of bad luck.
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Old 20th February 2016, 05:02 PM   #2163
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Originally Posted by Snarf View Post
Yup. Steven is just a victim of bad luck.
Followed by a bit of good luck. This video is a must watch (maybe I posted it earlier)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upcjW3rGCao

When you have watched it, you might have an idea of what James Lenk is facing, and where Avery will be in 12 months.
You might even venture into detailed analysis of the case territory.
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Old 20th February 2016, 07:02 PM   #2164
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Followed by a bit of good luck. This video is a must watch (maybe I posted it earlier)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upcjW3rGCao

When you have watched it, you might have an idea of what James Lenk is facing, and where Avery will be in 12 months.
You might even venture into detailed analysis of the case territory.
St. Zellner has spoken. Avery must be innocent.

Now it's time to shift the investigation to Edwards.
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Old 20th February 2016, 07:44 PM   #2165
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
St. Zellner has spoken. Avery must be innocent.

Now it's time to shift the investigation to Edwards.
Logic precludes Edwards unless you are just taking the mickey.

Try this list for the real world, in order of plausibility

PC Lenk
PC Petersen
PC Colborn
Bobby Dassey
Tadych
Teresa's ex
Zipperer.
Edwards because I don't know enough.

Avery and Brendan Dassey are out so don't make the cut.

Please feel free to improve my list and the order.
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Old 20th February 2016, 08:27 PM   #2166
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More bad luck.
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Old 20th February 2016, 10:28 PM   #2167
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Followed by a bit of good luck. This video is a must watch (maybe I posted it earlier)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upcjW3rGCao

When you have watched it, you might have an idea of what James Lenk is facing, and where Avery will be in 12 months.
You might even venture into detailed analysis of the case territory.
5:15 she seems to make a slight comment about looking at other suspects, and who she was involved with, poor investigation of the victims background, the circumstances of her life.

this leads to me to wonder if its the ex boyfriend, or a new boyfriend? who she was involved with....

great link, thanks for sharing that.
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Old 20th February 2016, 10:38 PM   #2168
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
5:15 she seems to make a slight comment about looking at other suspects, and who she was involved with, poor investigation of the victims background, the circumstances of her life.

this leads to me to wonder if its the ex boyfriend, or a new boyfriend? who she was involved with....

great link, thanks for sharing that.
I noted that, and thought about it. Was she making the point that the girl disappeared, and the police did not immediately round up everyone who ever knew her, and drag them in for interviews?
Did they not do so because they had a far more precise agenda?
The reality is at that stage there was no evidence except a missing girl.
Zellner looks like a complex woman who is being somewhat enigmatic.
In simple terms, if it is obvious who killed Teresa, it must be a policeman. It appears to have been an execution at point blank range, and that is part of their training.
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Old 20th February 2016, 11:09 PM   #2169
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Zellner has not disputed the statements made in the extensive interview regarding the Steven Avery trial. So I think we can say they are accurate.

This is not a "conspiracy theorist", meaning a whack job spouting rubbish. She's won over 16 cases, overturned wrongful convictions and yes - won millions for clients and her office by proving misconduct.

It does strike me how little we know of Theresa Halbach's life. If the criminal trial is supposed to point out the obvious suspect then the only one I can come up with is Bobby Dassey's testimony being radically different from his brothers coming home on the bus and all his finger-pointing at Steven.

Bobby says he was in a tree stand hunting deer. He had to get there early before the deer went on their "feeding patterns". Well any mediocre hunter knows they move at dusk. So why are you coming home before sundown? Why go at all if you are coming home before prime time? His story makes no sense.

His brothers said he was home asleep when they came home from school. Not in a tree hunting. Remember what a big deal he made about seeing Theresa heading into Steven Avery's trailer? Before he goes hunting? So why are the brothers saying he was sleeping when they got home?

Zellner says they did a poor job framing Steven. She says she is going to prove who killed Theresa Halbach and that's great regardless of whether it comes back on Steve. Zellner has had a client confess to being a serial killer and she made that announcement public in order to bring closure to those families and districts.

I remain open minded.
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Old 21st February 2016, 03:36 AM   #2170
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Zellner has not disputed the statements made in the extensive interview regarding the Steven Avery trial. So I think we can say they are accurate.

This is not a "conspiracy theorist", meaning a whack job spouting rubbish. She's won over 16 cases, overturned wrongful convictions and yes - won millions for clients and her office by proving misconduct.

It does strike me how little we know of Theresa Halbach's life. If the criminal trial is supposed to point out the obvious suspect then the only one I can come up with is Bobby Dassey's testimony being radically different from his brothers coming home on the bus and all his finger-pointing at Steven.

Bobby says he was in a tree stand hunting deer. He had to get there early before the deer went on their "feeding patterns". Well any mediocre hunter knows they move at dusk. So why are you coming home before sundown? Why go at all if you are coming home before prime time? His story makes no sense.

His brothers said he was home asleep when they came home from school. Not in a tree hunting. Remember what a big deal he made about seeing Theresa heading into Steven Avery's trailer? Before he goes hunting? So why are the brothers saying he was sleeping when they got home?

Zellner says they did a poor job framing Steven. She says she is going to prove who killed Theresa Halbach and that's great regardless of whether it comes back on Steve. Zellner has had a client confess to being a serial killer and she made that announcement public in order to bring closure to those families and districts.

I remain open minded.
You know, I am fascinated. Charlie Wilkes said Lenk straight away after viewing the series. He is still a lone stalker of Lenk, and I have never seen him analyse a crime incorrectly.
Why do you think Lenk didn't do it?
All he need do is be aware of the Halbach story of Avery in the bath robe, basic intelligence of autotrader appointments, and watch her go to Avery's and come back the same way. Plain clothes lights materialise, and Teresa obediently pulls over. Quick execution, sorry kid nothing personal, into the back seat and off to the quarry. Out comes the blood vial, daubed where necessary, hide the car, drive home to loving wife who says how was your day dear, to which the laconic Lenk replies economically.
Then next day the knives strip off the flesh at the quarry which is bundled into polythene bags, and the propane torch does the rest. Does'nt take long at all.
Who is watching him?
November 4 he has a day off, and Colborn (gloves on), drives the car to where Charles Avery sees the lights and it being parked up. Detach the battery leads and daub Avery dna on the hood latch. Looks just like any wrecking yard car now. (Plates were detached earlier of course and thrown in another vehicle to do a makeshift concealment befitting low IQ Avery). Lenk follows, drops Colborn back at his vehicle, and all set.

No wonder Zellner says it is obvious.

Last edited by Samson; 21st February 2016 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 21st February 2016, 04:40 AM   #2171
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You know, I am fascinated. Charlie Wilkes said Lenk straight away after viewing the series. He is still a lone stalker of Lenk, and I have never seen him analyse a crime incorrectly.

<snip>

Is this a useful metric?

How many crimes have you seen him analyze? How many crimes has he analyzed which you haven't seen?
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Old 21st February 2016, 04:53 AM   #2172
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Is this a useful metric?

How many crimes have you seen him analyze? How many crimes has he analyzed which you haven't seen?
It is a useful metric to me because he has analysed a few crimes from a distance, that have puzzled New Zealanders and continue to do so.

For example he described what is obvious in the Lundy case, and subsequently we have established exactly what happened and who did it.
Surprisingly, Mark Lundy may well die in jail despite this knowledge.
At least Charlie, Chris Halkides, and others have found the truth. 90% of New Zealanders are deluded.
Why would I not take a close interest in other crimes where what he says is obvious to the meanest intelligence?
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Old 21st February 2016, 05:07 AM   #2173
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It is a useful metric to me because he has analysed a few crimes from a distance, that have puzzled New Zealanders and continue to do so.

For example he described what is obvious in the Lundy case, and subsequently we have established exactly what happened and who did it.
Surprisingly, Mark Lundy may well die in jail despite this knowledge.
At least Charlie, Chris Halkides, and others have found the truth. 90% of New Zealanders are deluded.
Why would I not take a close interest in other crimes where what he says is obvious to the meanest intelligence?

I don't know. Why not? What has that got to do with anything? I didn't ask you about that.

If what he says is so damned obvious then what makes him special?
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Old 21st February 2016, 05:23 AM   #2174
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I don't know. Why not? What has that got to do with anything? I didn't ask you about that.

If what he says is so damned obvious then what makes him special?
Only if he is right. No one on planet internet will name the killer backed by evidence, but Charlie has done so. This thread generally (I think) has abandoned Steven Avery as a suspect. Someone executed and incinerated Teresa Halbach.
Who do you think did that commonplace crime?
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Old 21st February 2016, 06:35 AM   #2175
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Only if he is right. No one on planet internet will name the killer backed by evidence, but Charlie has done so. This thread generally (I think) has abandoned Steven Avery as a suspect. Someone executed and incinerated Teresa Halbach.
Who do you think did that commonplace crime?
So you think Steven Avery had a partner in the crime?

I hadn't considered that.
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Old 21st February 2016, 04:34 PM   #2176
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It isn't that I am biased against Lenk or have any complete theory worked out for any perpetrator including Steve acting alone.

I think Zellner's approach is the right one, to retrench and actually start over again with investigation, to the extent you can - and see where that leads you. Just as an example she is going to research Theresa's life more fully. Good idea. She's obviously going to home in on who she thinks did it. She has a staff, and they're on it.

Got to let them do their work. I bet she spends a million dollars.
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Old 21st February 2016, 05:41 PM   #2177
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
It isn't that I am biased against Lenk or have any complete theory worked out for any perpetrator including Steve acting alone.

I think Zellner's approach is the right one, to retrench and actually start over again with investigation, to the extent you can - and see where that leads you. Just as an example she is going to research Theresa's life more fully. Good idea. She's obviously going to home in on who she thinks did it. She has a staff, and they're on it.

Got to let them do their work. I bet she spends a million dollars.
If Avery gets out of jail again, and the true killer is identified, the story becomes possibly the biggest in crime history, and she will cash in if she wishes. I imagine plenty of people are working on film scripts already.
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Old 21st February 2016, 06:44 PM   #2178
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It is a useful metric to me because he has analysed a few crimes from a distance, that have puzzled New Zealanders and continue to do so.

For example he described what is obvious in the Lundy case, and subsequently we have established exactly what happened and who did it.
Surprisingly, Mark Lundy may well die in jail despite this knowledge.
At least Charlie, Chris Halkides, and others have found the truth. 90% of New Zealanders are deluded.
Why would I not take a close interest in other crimes where what he says is obvious to the meanest intelligence?
And you have no way of knowing he has been completely accurate. I like Charlie; I think he has valuable insight about some things. But he is not a god and he can be wrong just as often as everyone else looking at these crimes from afar. A good skeptic does not fixate on one possible scenario to the exclusion of all others.
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Old 21st February 2016, 08:40 PM   #2179
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You know, I am fascinated. Charlie Wilkes said Lenk straight away after viewing the series. He is still a lone stalker of Lenk, and I have never seen him analyse a crime incorrectly.
Why do you think Lenk didn't do it?
All he need do is be aware of the Halbach story of Avery in the bath robe, basic intelligence of autotrader appointments, and watch her go to Avery's and come back the same way. Plain clothes lights materialise, and Teresa obediently pulls over. Quick execution, sorry kid nothing personal, into the back seat and off to the quarry. Out comes the blood vial, daubed where necessary, hide the car, drive home to loving wife who says how was your day dear, to which the laconic Lenk replies economically.
Then next day the knives strip off the flesh at the quarry which is bundled into polythene bags, and the propane torch does the rest. Does'nt take long at all.
Who is watching him?
November 4 he has a day off, and Colborn (gloves on), drives the car to where Charles Avery sees the lights and it being parked up. Detach the battery leads and daub Avery dna on the hood latch. Looks just like any wrecking yard car now. (Plates were detached earlier of course and thrown in another vehicle to do a makeshift concealment befitting low IQ Avery). Lenk follows, drops Colborn back at his vehicle, and all set.

No wonder Zellner says it is obvious.
Thats really beyond insane if true. Lenk wasnt even listed in the lawsuit. What kind of pathetic ant of a human would do such grotesque things? and to accomplish what? the motive = Helping his boss out?

Knives strip off the flesh...Lenk and buddy Colbrun do the dirty work for the MC while what the bosses sit at home and do nothing?
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Old 21st February 2016, 10:15 PM   #2180
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
And you have no way of knowing he has been completely accurate. I like Charlie; I think he has valuable insight about some things. But he is not a god and he can be wrong just as often as everyone else looking at these crimes from afar. A good skeptic does not fixate on one possible scenario to the exclusion of all others.
Charlie's breaking new ground calling Rolf Harris innocent. All good fun.
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Old 21st February 2016, 10:25 PM   #2181
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Thats really beyond insane if true. Lenk wasnt even listed in the lawsuit. What kind of pathetic ant of a human would do such grotesque things? and to accomplish what? the motive = Helping his boss out?

Knives strip off the flesh...Lenk and buddy Colbrun do the dirty work for the MC while what the bosses sit at home and do nothing?
It is the Sherlock Holmes concept. Nothing Else Fits the evidence. Not remotely close. Unless I am missing a time line and opportunity for another protagonist. The body was burned, there were cut or saw marks on bones.
We are trying to identify plausible suspect, and that piece of excrement planted evidence against a man he knows is innocent.
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Old 21st February 2016, 11:25 PM   #2182
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It is the Sherlock Holmes concept. Nothing Else Fits the evidence. Not remotely close. Unless I am missing a time line and opportunity for another protagonist. The body was burned, there were cut or saw marks on bones.
We are trying to identify plausible suspect, and that piece of excrement planted evidence against a man he knows is innocent.
Bobby still fits, imo.
The act of chopping up the body doesnt seem like something just any killer does though. Someone hunting deer could have the utilities to get the meat off the bones without getting too sick. Still Bobby doesnt have a lot of logical motivation to kill TH. He would be comfortable in the area to place the bones though. Scott T. seems to be lying and acted really really abnormal.
However Kraft kind of weasled Bobby around so the testimony is some third party crap, and the date was lied about. I blame Kraft for this more than Bobby.

Lenk and Colburn could be on the case early, but its hard to believe they would go to such great lengths for their bosses and jobs. Maybe framing to make sure Steve got caught, but to actually do the crime seems beyond twisted/insane. Motivation = Stupid Boss Bootlicker Appeasers?

Ziperer...I still dont know much about this guy. Motivation= Mean old man with crazy tendency to threaten people.

exBoyfriend and rommate,... who knows? Answer: Zellner
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Old 21st February 2016, 11:34 PM   #2183
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Bobby still fits, imo.
The act of chopping up the body doesnt seem like something just any killer does though. Someone hunting deer could have the utilities to get the meat off the bones without getting too sick. Still Bobby doesnt have a lot of logical motivation to kill TH. He would be comfortable in the area to place the bones though. Scott T. seems to be lying and acted really really abnormal.
However Kraft kind of weasled Bobby around so the testimony is some third party crap, and the date was lied about. I blame Kraft for this more than Bobby.

Lenk and Colburn could be on the case early, but its hard to believe they would go to such great lengths for their bosses and jobs. Maybe framing to make sure Steve got caught, but to actually do the crime seems beyond twisted/insane. Motivation = Stupid Boss Bootlicker Appeasers?

Ziperer...I still dont know much about this guy. Motivation= Mean old man with crazy tendency to threaten people.

exBoyfriend and rommate,... who knows? Answer: Zellner
Two things. Steve Avery says it was no member of his family. Bobby Dassey is a cousin??
All sorts of things knock each suspect out. They looked pleased like Tadych? I don't know about you, but when I get my first murder done I plan to look pretty quiet on it. Like Lenk. No crowing no Ta Da

This was an execution and the wrong man is in jail. Police are trained killers, and someone got the flesh off the bones. I would too to spend way less time with the propane burner.
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Old 22nd February 2016, 06:51 AM   #2184
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Bobby Dassey is Avery's nephew IIRC.
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Old 22nd February 2016, 12:49 PM   #2185
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Two things. Steve Avery says it was no member of his family. Bobby Dassey is a cousin??
All sorts of things knock each suspect out. They looked pleased like Tadych? I don't know about you, but when I get my first murder done I plan to look pretty quiet on it. Like Lenk. No crowing no Ta Da

This was an execution and the wrong man is in jail. Police are trained killers, and someone got the flesh off the bones. I would too to spend way less time with the propane burner.
Whats the motivation? Im struggling with understanding a motivation for Lenk and Colburn. While I understand the hate for Averys-Hero Governor attention and media spotlight ....it seems hard to believe they would kill an innocent person for their MC team.
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Old 22nd February 2016, 01:50 PM   #2186
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Whats the motivation? Im struggling with understanding a motivation for Lenk and Colburn. While I understand the hate for Averys-Hero Governor attention and media spotlight ....it seems hard to believe they would kill an innocent person for their MC team.
Lenk deliberately kept him in jail to avoid being shown up. He came to hate Avery, and no doubt rationalised he should have stayed there for threatening the wife of another cop. If there is a suspect with a more straightforward motive and opportunity we would surely know. The fact is he planted evidence so this proves he hated Avery. Why not kill to get that evidence?
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Old 22nd February 2016, 04:32 PM   #2187
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Lenk deliberately kept him in jail to avoid being shown up. He came to hate Avery, and no doubt rationalised he should have stayed there for threatening the wife of another cop. If there is a suspect with a more straightforward motive and opportunity we would surely know. The fact is he planted evidence so this proves he hated Avery. Why not kill to get that evidence?
Good point. The first episode shows the hate, the second episode shows the motivation to take him down. Petersen probably does which he had just killed Steve, it'd been easier....geeez.

Lenk, I could understand it was more important to the murderer to go to the greatest lengths to frame Steve. Obviously Im not a psychiatrist of the criminally insane, so I have no idea how Lenk could let it go that far.

So you think the motivation wasnt rape or robbery it was "destroy Steve Avery".

His arrest and the murder charge was the same day he was to testify for the Avery Bill or something wasnt it.

Still the civil case was against MCounty and Vogel and Sheriff D. So you think Lenk took it upon himself to save the MC police force by killing a innocent lady and framing Steve Avery?
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Old 22nd February 2016, 05:33 PM   #2188
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Good point. The first episode shows the hate, the second episode shows the motivation to take him down. Petersen probably does which he had just killed Steve, it'd been easier....geeez.

Lenk, I could understand it was more important to the murderer to go to the greatest lengths to frame Steve. Obviously Im not a psychiatrist of the criminally insane, so I have no idea how Lenk could let it go that far.

So you think the motivation wasnt rape or robbery it was "destroy Steve Avery".

His arrest and the murder charge was the same day he was to testify for the Avery Bill or something wasnt it.

Still the civil case was against MCounty and Vogel and Sheriff D. So you think Lenk took it upon himself to save the MC police force by killing a innocent lady and framing Steve Avery?
I honestly don't know. When CW put the theory forward he thought Lenk was liable and lose everything, so now we have a watered down motive to back justify. However one thing we know is someone shot her dead, removed her flesh and incinerated the bones in the quarry. It hardly fits outside of the standard serial guys like Dahmer.
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Old 22nd February 2016, 06:08 PM   #2189
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I honestly don't know. When CW put the theory forward he thought Lenk was liable and lose everything, so now we have a watered down motive to back justify. However one thing we know is someone shot her dead, removed her flesh and incinerated the bones in the quarry. It hardly fits outside of the standard serial guys like Dahmer.
agreed.
and the time it takes to do all this grotesque work and then not get caught stumps me.

and where would anyone have that kind of confidence in not being interrupted?

we arent talking about a 5 minute job here, right? to kill then destroy a human body down to chunks, burn them and then dump them at Steves backyard, would take some time.

to dump the bones I suggest would be when Steve was gone off the property. The dog would be barking and so I suspect the bones were dropped off when Steve was not there.

Lenk would be a main suspect, maybe he just snapped. He was at the crime scene far too many times so dumping the bones wouldnt be any more difficult than dropping a key when other police were babysitting him.

Teresa being Raped might align more with Bobbys age, maybe Scott T.

Ziperer...I dont know.
ExBoyfirend and Roomate didnt report her gone at all, Teresas mom did. Is that odd? I dont know.Would the exBoyfriend and Roommate let her be missing for 3 weeks? never saying anything? But what motivation would they have?

Had Teresa recently met any new nutcases on a date or bar?
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Old 22nd February 2016, 08:34 PM   #2190
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Had Teresa recently met any new nutcases on a date or bar?
She met one while on the job, and it cost her her life.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Lenk deliberately kept him in jail to avoid being shown up. He came to hate Avery, and no doubt rationalised he should have stayed there for threatening the wife of another cop. If there is a suspect with a more straightforward motive and opportunity we would surely know. The fact is he planted evidence so this proves he hated Avery. Why not kill to get that evidence?
So Lenk killed a woman in cold blood because Avery threatened the wife of another cop... 18 years prior? This is the theory you're going with?
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Old 22nd February 2016, 08:44 PM   #2191
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Originally Posted by Snarf View Post
She met one while on the job, and it cost her her life.



So Lenk killed a woman in cold blood because Avery threatened the wife of another cop... 18 years prior? This is the theory you're going with?
The theory involves hatred for Avery for being a folk hero at his expense. Humans hate others for different reasons, and I am thinking this pecking order reversal was abhorrent to Lenk.
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Old 23rd February 2016, 03:00 AM   #2192
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Teresa being Raped might align more with Bobbys age, maybe Scott T.
Is there any evidence of rape other than Brendan's doubtful confession?
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Old 23rd February 2016, 07:00 AM   #2193
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No. That's why that charge against Avery was dropped.
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Old 23rd February 2016, 02:03 PM   #2194
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Originally Posted by Snarf View Post
She met one while on the job, and it cost her her life.



So Lenk killed a woman in cold blood because Avery threatened the wife of another cop... 18 years prior? This is the theory you're going with?
I meant outside of the normal work. Her coworker said someone was calling her and she wasnt enjoying the calls. Who would this be ? the exboyfriend?

What was the breakup about? Did he move on or was he not happy with it?
We dont know and the police didnt investigate it. They didnt investigate much of anything.

I think Lenk and Colburn laid the breadcrumbs and the Prosecution had a chance to save $36 million dollars and a lot of Judges and others embarrassments. Thats a pretty big motivation that goes on too often.

Lenk planting the evidence obviously, being far too present at the property when he shouldnt have been due to conflict of interest. This does build up a motivation that he murdered Teresa and that gave him the need to frame someone, and Steve was easy...or even a target.

Where is Lenk?
Kraft has chimed in several times trying to make a buck. I m sure Kraft will toss Lenk under the bus the first sign of evidence. We havent heard from Lenk in the papers have we?

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Old 23rd February 2016, 02:12 PM   #2195
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Originally Posted by Liamo View Post
Is there any evidence of rape other than Brendan's doubtful confession?
Framing SA twice results in real rapist & murderer never being charged. Who is being served & protected except MCSD?- Zellner

Zellner mentions it in a way. We dont know what she has found. Semen? Why would the bodyt be in the SUV? Sex/Rape?


Why did Zellner mention :
There was very poor investigation done of the victim's background, who she was involved with, the circumstances of her life.

Im not sold on anyone 100% but Lenk leads at the moment, but the ex-boyfriend and her roommate are odd, and didnt report her missing.
Scott T acted bizare and lied about trying to sell the 22. Maybe he has a record of rape, that would be a motivation to kill Teresa.

Im just playing with motivations while we wait for the real case.

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Old 23rd February 2016, 03:27 PM   #2196
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Framing SA twice results in real rapist & murderer never being charged. Who is being served & protected except MCSD?- Zellner

Zellner mentions it in a way.
I assumed she was talking about the Beernsten case.
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Old 23rd February 2016, 09:21 PM   #2197
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
I meant outside of the normal work. Her coworker said someone was calling her and she wasnt enjoying the calls. Who would this be ? the exboyfriend?
Could have been. Could also have been Lenk, or even Avery. This line of reasoning goes both ways.

Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
We dont know and the police didnt investigate it. They didnt investigate much of anything.
They investigated the Averys, after the van was found on their property.

Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
I think Lenk and Colburn laid the breadcrumbs and the Prosecution had a chance to save $36 million dollars and a lot of Judges and others embarrassments. Thats a pretty big motivation that goes on too often.
Please point to another incident where the police kill an innocent person in order to frame someone else who is seeking compensation from the government.

Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Lenk planting the evidence obviously
Only to you and everyone else that bought that one-sided documentary hook, line, and sinker. From the website I posted earlier:
"The bullet was found on the first thorough search of the garage, and previously they had not even moved equipment out to search under it.
The key was found on the second search of the trailer;the previous entries the documentary claimed were "searches" were: a 10-minute sweep to look for any sign of Teresa alive, an entry to retrieve the guns seen on the initial sweep, an entry to get the serial number from Steven's computer for use in a warrant, and the crime lab luminol testing the residence."


Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Where is Lenk?
Kraft has chimed in several times trying to make a buck. I m sure Kraft will toss Lenk under the bus the first sign of evidence. We havent heard from Lenk in the papers have we?
I think you meant Kratz and I don't see how he's making money off of any this. Zellner on the other hand, is only boosting her career and public image by tweeting out cryptic tweets to the pro-Avery crowd every few days. This case is win-win for her.
I'm not sure where Lenk is, are you insinuating that he's in hiding because the documentary blew the lid off his perfect crime? My guess is he's trying to enjoy his retirement somewhere, and avoiding this media circus as much as possible. I'm also quite positive there are people out there so heavily invested in their cospiracy theories that they'd love nothing more than to find him and string him up on a tree.
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Old 23rd February 2016, 11:16 PM   #2198
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As I see it only people who hide their head in the sand couldnt see Lenk planting the evidence.

Why was he even there.

Snarf I think you have the shells and the bullet fragment mixed up. The garage was gone over thoroughly by honest detectives and nothing was found. The Lenk arrives and a bullets found. DNA isnt found on anything, until they suggest to the Appeasing DNA clerk tech to find some.

Obviously some people believe Lenk is Andy Griffith, thats ok.
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Old 23rd February 2016, 11:46 PM   #2199
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Originally Posted by Snarf View Post
<snip>

I think you meant Kratz and I don't see how he's making money off of any this. Zellner on the other hand, is only boosting her career and public image by tweeting out cryptic tweets to the pro-Avery crowd every few days. This case is win-win for her.

<snip>

Zellner's public image doesn't need any boosting. Her record in such cases isn't going to get a whole lot better while this is going on.

It is hardly win-win because of that simple fact. She can keep her winning streak, or she can break it. Very much win-lose.

It isn't like she takes these cases on just for the publicity. She has demonstrated that she chooses them very carefully, and doesn't fight battles she doesn't think she can win. Nor has she demonstrated any particular inclination to chase publicity. She doesn't need to. Her success rate in general (not just actual innocence cases) brings her all the publicity she could ask for. Trying to paint her as some sort of glorified ambulance chaser is pure ad hom.

Her involvement alone is enough to make me take the possibility of Avery's innocence very seriously.
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Old 23rd February 2016, 11:59 PM   #2200
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Zellner's public image doesn't need any boosting. Her record in such cases isn't going to get a whole lot better while this is going on.

It is hardly win-win because of that simple fact. She can keep her winning streak, or she can break it. Very much win-lose.

It isn't like she takes these cases on just for the publicity. She has demonstrated that she chooses them very carefully, and doesn't fight battles she doesn't think she can win. Nor has she demonstrated any particular inclination to chase publicity. She doesn't need to. Her success rate in general (not just actual innocence cases) brings her all the publicity she could ask for. Trying to paint her as some sort of glorified ambulance chaser is pure ad hom.


Her involvement alone is enough to make me take the possibility of Avery's innocence very seriously.
Nothing succeeds like success.
Zellner now has unlimited resources in the most intriguing criminal case in history.
This is going to get way more fun, you would be brain dead to not follow it.
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