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Old 15th January 2020, 04:52 AM   #801
Robin
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Let's do a thought experiment. We have a length of square section steel and a sheet of aluminium, cut and bent so that it forms a snug sleeve around three sides of the full length of the steel.

We put it in a good strong vice with the uncovered side to the back and take a large heavy crowbar and take the strongest whack we can at the front face.

Would we have to sever the aluminium completely in order to do considerable damage on the steel bar inside?

No of course we wouldn't. Same thing applies to the column in question.
Bumping and hilighting the part yankee451 missed.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:02 AM   #802
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I think I have some old roof sections in the garage and some square section steel, so if I have time I may try it out.

According to this theory as long as I cover the steel with aluminium on three sides I can't dent the steel unless I sever the aluminium all the way through. Interesting theory.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:06 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Ah, but he's carefully avoided having to do that by claiming that it's the unrecorded witness accounts that refer to small planes. It's the evidentiary equivalent of "the lurkers support me in e-mail".

Dave
And he's already insulated himself from having to confront any actual recorded witnesses with this-

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Quote:
Most people immediately discount missiles because they assume thousands of people would have seen them, and would have reported them to the authorities. This is a circular argument because if missiles were used, then they would have been launched by the authorities the witnesses would have reported them to.
https://911crashtest.org/9-11-truth-...e-shaped-hole/
It's the evidentiary equivalent of Michel H's "credibility rating" in his Telepath Test thread; note that the circular argument he accuses other people of using is actually the one he makes because he so desperately needs it.

If Michael Shermer ever decides to update "Why People Believe Weird Things," yankee can be an illustrative example of the ways those weird beliefs are maintained. Yankee wants to be famous as the guy whose serious study broke the case; all he's ever actually going to achieve is fame as a serious case study.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:23 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Hard to tell what the material Steve claims is alum siding weirdly displaced actually is. It actually looks different in the ellipse. But the res is so low it's really hard to read. Perhaps a slab of insulation?
It is hard to make out quite what it is (quite aside from any daft stuff about missiles). The photos from two angles show that it's not in front of a column, and it projects quite a long way out from the wall. It's not clear how it's attached to the building but we don't know for sure what shape it is so there might be more of it sticking into the building. What it looks most like is the section of cladding from the column to its left and it's possible that it's not quite broken off at the bottom, but if it is a ragged piece of not-quite-torn-off cladding, why did it end up sticking up instead of dangling downward? Was it initially pushed in and then flung almost out again?
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Old 15th January 2020, 06:38 AM   #805
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So this guy (Yankee), sees one anomaly, in one photo, and throws the baby out with the bath water. Let's throw him a bone and say this ONE column is "suspect." So we throw out EVERY other piece of evidence, and conjure up a grand conspiracy involving fake videos, fake witnesses, fake firefighters and policemen...I could go on. Because there's ONE suspect column in ONE photo. Which, ironically enough, should be one of the "faked" photos.

How braindead can people be?

And that brings us back to page 1. Why not just fly ******* airplanes into the buildings?
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Old 15th January 2020, 06:59 AM   #806
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It is hard to make out quite what it is (quite aside from any daft stuff about missiles). The photos from two angles show that it's not in front of a column, and it projects quite a long way out from the wall. It's not clear how it's attached to the building but we don't know for sure what shape it is so there might be more of it sticking into the building. What it looks most like is the section of cladding from the column to its left and it's possible that it's not quite broken off at the bottom, but if it is a ragged piece of not-quite-torn-off cladding, why did it end up sticking up instead of dangling downward? Was it initially pushed in and then flung almost out again?
If it is a part of the cladding sticking out then it pretty much kills the cruise missile theory stone dead. Yankee451 is steadfastly ignoring that.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:34 AM   #807
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
If it is a part of the cladding sticking out then it pretty much kills the cruise missile theory stone dead. Yankee451 is steadfastly ignoring that.
True, but can we prove it's not a cruise missile wing instead?
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:36 AM   #808
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Nope. You didn't. You see, the cladding covered the column on three sides. for a plane wing to so damage the column the cladding was attached to, it would first need to cut through the cladding. Back to the drawing board for you!

https://911crashtest.org/wp-content/...s-1024x640.png
What leads you to believe that the wing of a missile is constructed of more sturdy material, or somehow differently, than that of an airplane?

How many missile system have you personally interacted with?
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:39 AM   #809
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
So this guy (Yankee), sees one anomaly, in one photo, and throws the baby out with the bath water. Let's throw him a bone and say this ONE column is "suspect." So we throw out EVERY other piece of evidence, and conjure up a grand conspiracy involving fake videos, fake witnesses, fake firefighters and policemen...I could go on. Because there's ONE suspect column in ONE photo. Which, ironically enough, should be one of the "faked" photos.

How braindead can people be?

And that brings us back to page 1. Why not just fly ******* airplanes into the buildings?
Kill thousands in the towers? Not a problem. Kill a few hundred passengers and crew? We are not monsters.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:16 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Yes, those that reported small planes, missiles and bombs might have been onto something.
What about the ones who reported trains?

Quote:
Nicholas Borrillo -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) on 23rd floor of North Tower:
Then we heard a rumble. We heard it and we felt the whole building shake. It was like being on a train, being in an earthquake. A train is more like it, because with the train you hear the rumbling, and it kind of like moved you around in the hall.

Paul Curran -- Fire Patrolman (F.D.N.Y.) North Tower:
I went back and stood right in front of Eight World Trade Center right by the customs house, and the north tower was set right next to it. Not that much time went by, and all of a sudden the ground just started shaking. It felt like a train was running under my feet.

Joseph Fortis -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) T]he ground started shaking like a train was coming. You looked up, and I guess -- I don't know, it was one that came down first or two? Which one?

Keith Murphy -- (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 47] ...... I would say about 3, 4 seconds, all of a sudden this tremendous roar. It sounded like being in a tunnel with the train coming at you.

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118] You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:25 AM   #811
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
What about the ones who reported trains?
Alas, the conclusion that planes, trains and automobiles were responsible, doesn't fit the evidence as well as the lateral impact of multiple cruise missiles does.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:38 AM   #812
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Alas, the conclusion that planes, trains and automobiles were responsible, doesn't fit the evidence as well as the lateral impact of multiple cruise missiles does.
Doesn't fit the evidence? that is funny
Only in your fantasy world where you can't figure out physics due to "common sense". TLAR does not always work in the real world where math and physics rule.

Stop spreading on of the top dumbest claims about 9/11, missiles did it, it does not make sense, and is a big lie.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:58 AM   #813
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Alas, the conclusion that planes, trains and automobiles were responsible, doesn't fit the evidence as well as the lateral impact of multiple cruise missiles does.
Cruise missiles don't do lateral impacts. In fact, they are designed to avoid it. The targeting and flight systems are written to avoid obstacles. So now, not only do you need a missile system that didn't fully exist, and quite a few of them and all must work flawlessly, but you need a rewritten software.


And to you, this is a more likely answer than what can be visually confirmed as Boeing 767s hitting the twin towers.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:28 AM   #814
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I understand quite well. I also understand mostly hollow aluminum wings don't slice through steel skyscrapers in the real world...
I note the subtle connotative usage of hollow (empty, weak) and steel (strong, hard) employed to help game the argument, such as it is.

One could argue the towers were quite hollow, too.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:32 AM   #815
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Occupants of what? The non existent planes? The empty offices? What do you mean?
A no-planer, are we? I’ll leave this discussion right after entering it, then; I have no interest in arguing with insanity.
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:01 PM   #816
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Unsurprisingly, this does not answer my question.
You claim the images and videos were altered to mask the missiles.
You are using the same images to prove that missiles were used.
Why would the Evil Them not alter the images to show damage from a plane, instead of leaving in damage that an unqualified amateur like you can easily spot?
Not much of an Evil Plan, is it?
Steve wouldn't know an Evil Plan if Dick Dastardly himself fell out of the sky, landed on the stool in front of his grand piano and started playing "Evil Plans are Here Again"
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:17 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I understand quite well. I also understand mostly hollow aluminum wings don't slice through steel skyscrapers in the real world...

Your no-plane theory has just as much to do with the real world as a Marvel comic book.
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:21 PM   #818
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And yet it turns out that my son doesn't have a big hole in the sole of his boot. Funny how so many of these truther laws of physics don't apply to everyday situations, yet absolutely, definitely must apply to the events of 9/11. It's almost as if they were making up new physics as they go along.

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"Almost"?
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:26 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I understand quite well. I also understand mostly hollow aluminum wings don't slice through steel skyscrapers in the real world...

Your no-plane theory has just as much to do with the real world as a Marvel comic book.


Yep, his "mostly hollow aluminum wings don't slice through steel skyscrapers" in exactly the same way, that mostly hollow ping ping balls don't punch a hole in a table tennis bat.

oh, wait!
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:53 PM   #820
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep, his "mostly hollow aluminum wings don't slice through steel skyscrapers" in exactly the same way, that mostly hollow ping ping balls don't punch a hole in a table tennis bat.

oh, wait!
New physics, Dr. Strangelove.
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Old 15th January 2020, 01:13 PM   #821
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Hollow wings (w/66,000 lbs of fuel) meet hollow WTC, 95% air.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
... I also understand mostly hollow aluminum wings don't slice through steel skyscrapers in the real world, ...
Hollow aircraft hits hollow WTC. You can't rent a solid steel concrete building, thus the WTC is 95 percent air. Whereas your lie of hollow wings are actually filled with 66,000 pounds of fuel going 590 mph. You can't grasp physics due to a complete lack of knowledge on the subject at hand.

Are the engines hollow? Have you studied the landing gear of aircraft for what they are made of?

It is ironic you used the term "real world" in your fantasy world of "missiles did it". Classic woo.
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Old 15th January 2020, 01:22 PM   #822
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
New physics, Dr. Strangelove.


YEE HAWWW!!!
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Old 15th January 2020, 02:08 PM   #823
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep.
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:11 PM   #824
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Occupants of what? The non existent planes? The empty offices? What do you mean?
There were flight manifests for those planes you say didn't exist. They had real peoples names on them. Friends and families are mourning those who are on those lists. Those people whose existence and memories you spit on to advance your theory. Pilots, flight crew, passengers. All GONE. What happened to them in your theory?
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:18 PM   #825
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Alas, the conclusion that planes, trains and automobiles were responsible, doesn't fit the evidence as well as the lateral impact of multiple cruise missiles does.
Really? Even when cruise missiles are not capable of the crap you propose? Somehow, cruise missile are capable of magic?

Off you go to Hogwarts to learn quidditch. That is just as plausible.
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:20 PM   #826
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ignoring murdered Americans, true colors come out (not the first time)

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Occupants of what? The non existent planes? The empty offices? What do you mean?
Thousands murdered on 9/11 and you make up a sick fantasy.

Tell your grandkids you mock the murder of thousands.
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:29 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Those people whose existence and memories you spit on to advance your theory. Pilots, flight crew, passengers. All GONE. What happened to them in your theory?
He's gonna say:

1. They didn't exist.
2. They are conspirators and in on the plan in some capacity (crisis actors).
3. They were executed after their flights landed at secret airports shortly after takeoff. However, I do not know if he thinks those specific planes or particular flights ever existed in the first place.
4. Some combination of the above on a person to person basis.
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:49 PM   #828
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No. You saw it on television, therefore you assume thousands of people saw it. But the lightly damaged aluminum sheeting, and the sharply bent steel columns, say otherwise.
“Assume thousands of people?”

The population of the five boroughs in 2001 was a touch over eight million. Following the impact of the first airplane, there was time for more than a few of them, even those at work or otherwise not usually looking at the twin towers (plus tourists, students, workers and other non residents either on foot, on ships, or in vehicles) to be hard focused on the spot. Maybe you’ve never been to NYC; I lived there, and the towers were a common visual reference for a remarkable distance, that’s how tall they were.

But let’s be conservative and consider just those within a modest radius of, say, a half mile. I assume more than a million.
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:59 PM   #829
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Yank when are going to get around to answering this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=658

You remember, the one where I listed a series of U.S. military crimes that were reported by the participants involved?

The post that asked you about who the humans were that would have to be involved in your fatasy construct?

You are making the mistake of ****** science fiction writers by focusing on tech and ignoring the fact that every story is ultimately about humans, not technology.

You must come up with something more than "they" if you want to get into the big leagues.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:01 PM   #830
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Thousands murdered on 9/11 and you make up a sick fantasy.

Tell your grandkids you mock the murder of thousands.
Be outraged! It's easier than thinking.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:05 PM   #831
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
So what you are saying is, that if I take a steel square section and cut and bend a sheet of aluminium to snugly fit the length of steel on three sides and then I swing a big crowbar at the front side then I would not be able to dent the steel without severing the aluminium completely? Yes?
When you get a chance, yankee451...
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:10 PM   #832
yankee451
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
When you get a chance, yankee451...
Yeah, I saw it. Thanks.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:13 PM   #833
Robin
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Yeah, I saw it. Thanks.
Do you have a response?
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:20 PM   #834
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
“Assume thousands of people?”

The population of the five boroughs in 2001 was a touch over eight million. Following the impact of the first airplane, there was time for more than a few of them, even those at work or otherwise not usually looking at the twin towers (plus tourists, students, workers and other non residents either on foot, on ships, or in vehicles) to be hard focused on the spot. Maybe you’ve never been to NYC; I lived there, and the towers were a common visual reference for a remarkable distance, that’s how tall they were.

But let’s be conservative and consider just those within a modest radius of, say, a half mile. I assume more than a million.
One example how people react to some kind of disaster is this quote from article about a Granville railway accident (Australia) in 1977:

"By 08:50, 1500 people lined the cutting. The crowd spilled onto the tracks. Some disguised themselves as rescue workers and climbed onto the unstable bridge wreckage for a closer look, risking the lives of trapped passengers and their rescuers beneath."

And that was just a railway accident with about 80 fatalities... 1,500 people just in the immediate vicinity of the scene! What happened in NY was a spectacle of a lifetime that nobody was likely to miss unless he had something vitally important to do at that moment. I think your estimate is quite reasonable.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:20 PM   #835
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Yup. I'm done with this thread, it will end up being merged with his other moderated thread and die the appropriate death it deserves.
I stopped by, gazed in awe (this nonsense is STILL being run up the flagpole nearly 20 years after?!), made my little comment and withdrew. Then shortly thereafter I came back, suggesting my self discipline needs some work.

Anyway, best wishes to 9/11 truthers; everybody needs a hobby.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:23 PM   #836
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
One example how people react to some kind of disaster is this quote from article about a Granville railway accident (Australia) in 1977:

"By 08:50, 1500 people lined the cutting. The crowd spilled onto the tracks. Some disguised themselves as rescue workers and climbed onto the unstable bridge wreckage for a closer look, risking the lives of trapped passengers and their rescuers beneath."

And that was just a railway accident with about 80 fatalities... 1,500 people just in the immediate vicinity of the scene! What happened in NY was a spectacle of a lifetime that nobody was likely to miss unless he had something vitally important to do at that moment. I think your estimate is quite reasonable.
I see. So this changes the evidence of the lateral impact of cruise missiles, how? Perhaps thousands of people did report seeing missiles, but why would the media tell us about it when they were selling us planes? Like all my questions you don't need to answer.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:25 PM   #837
yankee451
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I stopped by, gazed in awe (this nonsense is STILL being run up the flagpole nearly 20 years after?!), made my little comment and withdrew. Then shortly thereafter I came back, suggesting my self discipline needs some work.

Anyway, best wishes to 9/11 truthers; everybody needs a hobby.
Almost 20 years later and some people can still remember the lies that got the world into its current mess. You can go back to examining your navel now.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:26 PM   #838
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Kill thousands in the towers? Not a problem. Kill a few hundred passengers and crew? We are not monsters.


Ignore the evidence? That's what we do.
~"Skeptics"
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:30 PM   #839
Robin
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Ignore the evidence? That's what we do.
~"Skeptics"
You are doing a good job of ignoring my question which is directly about the evidence.
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Last edited by Robin; 15th January 2020 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:33 PM   #840
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I see. So this changes the evidence of the lateral impact of cruise missiles, how?
You do not have prima facie evidence. You have ad hoc speculation based on nothing more than your person interpretation of photographs.

Photographs I'm surprised you don't consider to be photoshopped or otherwise manipulated. Hell, what exactly IS your justification that those photos you use to argue your point are in any way legitimate in the first place, given that you claim video evidence not?
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