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Tags Coronavirus , vaccine

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Old 20th January 2021, 03:18 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Probably they should be ok. But no one knows the answers to questions like this for sure. There have never been enough cases like the above to tell for sure.

This is one example of what has happened. Researchers "We have a vaccine. We think it works and is safe, but cannot be sure about in all cases." USA, Europe "Give it to us NOW." Australia, NZ "We will wait to see what happens before we give it to our people."
Australia and NZ are in the middle of their summer and have controlled their cases at present. If the vaccines are only fully active for say 6 months, it makes far more sense to start in their autumn and get the full protection during the more dangerous part of the year.
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:12 AM   #442
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An N95 is a respirator NOT a mask.

You cannot use the word "mask" as an adjective when discussing the application of a respirator. Respirators need to be "fit tested" and their use is targeted; if someone is wearing an N95 for every day use... they are using it incorrectly.
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:36 AM   #443
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On what do you base that surprising statement? (Does the phrase "respirator mask" not exist in your vocabulary?)
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Old 20th January 2021, 04:16 PM   #444
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If you put it on you face, it's a mask.
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Old 20th January 2021, 04:26 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
On what do you base that surprising statement? (Does the phrase "respirator mask" not exist in your vocabulary?)
Here in the US N95s are technically called negative pressure respirators.

But most lay people and health care workers not well educated in respiratory protection call them masks.

Not sure why No Other is being pedantic.
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Old 20th January 2021, 04:29 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
If you put it on you face, it's a mask.
That's not exactly true. One doesn't call an SCBA face piece a "mask".

Self Contained Breathing Apparatus is a positive pressure respirator. Maybe a few people call it the mask for their SCBA. Most people call it the face piece because it's part of the integrated system.

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Old 20th January 2021, 05:00 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's not exactly true. One doesn't call an SCBA face piece a "mask".

Self Contained Breathing Apparatus is a positive pressure respirator. Maybe a few people call it the mask for their SCBA. Most people call it the face piece because it's part of the integrated system.
Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-c...hing_apparatus

Quote:
An SCBA typically has three main components: a high-pressure tank (e.g., 2,216 to 5,500 psi (15,280 to 37,920 kPa), about 150 to 374 atmospheres), a pressure regulator, and an inhalation connection (mouthpiece, mouth mask or face mask), connected together and mounted to a carrying frame.[1]
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:29 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
if someone is wearing an N95 for every day use... they are using it incorrectly.

I was really challenging this nonsense, not quibbling about terminology.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:34 PM   #449
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10 months later, still can't figure masks out.

Look at any picture of a Southeast Asian urban setting during a pandemic.

They learned the hard way. Repeating learning the hard way on purpose seems insane.
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:55 PM   #450
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I'm hoping the lower case numbers around the world over the last week is a reflection of better actions by governments and people around the world, because deaths hit a massive new high yesterday, at well over 17,000.

I'm also hoping the trends in sub-Saharan Africa are right, as they're not showing a continuation of the sharp increase over the previous couple of weeks.

That 17,000+ in a day puts Covid behind only cardiovascular and cancer deaths, and not that far behind cancer. Almost as much as the next three leading causes of death added together.
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Old 20th January 2021, 07:49 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I was really challenging this nonsense, not quibbling about terminology.
More quibble.

And then there is the problem where governments have imposed mask mandates. And stores also post "masks are required inside" on their doors.

Apparently, my KF94 respirator wouldn't fulfil the requirements since it isn't, technically, a mask.

Here's a story in the NYTimes about how S. Korea got serious early ramping up KF-94, um, masks.

How South Korea Solved Its Face Mask Shortage
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/o...-shortage.html


Edit: For what it's worth the phrase "N95 masks" has over 5 million hits on google compared to 900,000 for "N95 Respirators"
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Old 21st January 2021, 05:12 AM   #452
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I don't even understand what you're trying to say there.

The legislation where I am says "face covering", and a respirator mask is a face covering. Indeed, people who wear one for work should have a face-fit test, as I had for my work, so I don't see how you can declare that I'm wearing my FFP3 mask to the shops "improperly".

I have also given spare FFP3 masks to vulnerable friends, telling them, "this isn't a 'my mask protects you, your mask protects me' product, this mask protects you." I can't obviously do a complete formal face-fit test on them as I don't have the facilities, but having had such a test myself I know how to tell if the thing is on right, and I have instructed these people how to wear the mask and how to tell if it's on right. I don't see this as improper usage at all.

Funny thing. I was shopping in a supermarket last year, and bought a fresh store-baked loaf. I bent over my trolley at the check-out and got a strong whiff of lovely baked-bread smell. My brain slightly freaked, as in "I'm wearing an FFP3 mask, how did that get in??" before the more rational part of my mind took over and said "the aroma molecules from baked bread are free molecules, of course they go through the filter, the filter is for catching moisture droplets."

Frankly if the entire population had been issued with FFP3 masks, one per person per month, with instructions on how to use them, how often to use them, and how to store them safely between usages, it would have cost peanuts and we wouldn't have had this epidemic.
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Old 21st January 2021, 09:16 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I don't even understand what you're trying to say there.

The legislation where I am says "face covering", and a respirator mask is a face covering. Indeed, people who wear one for work should have a face-fit test, as I had for my work, so I don't see how you can declare that I'm wearing my FFP3 mask to the shops "improperly".
Legislation here also refers to "face coverings" and provides exemptions such as if you are in a car and with no one outside your household or outside and are more than 6 feet away from anyone. Curiously, one of the "exemptions from having to wear a "face covering" is:

"Workers who are required to wear respiratory protection."

I have seen a few stores that have signs with images of various face coverings/masks including images of masks with exit valves labeled "not allowed." which is good.

Others just have signs that say "masks required." I'm pretty sure a Lone Ranger style "mask" isn't what they had in mind.

As for wife and I, in the early days last Spring we made some cloth masks. They were better than nothing but leaked air around the nose bridge. The KF94's (S. Korean similar to N95) are great since they have a metal tab you can bend to fit your nose.

I don't have the materials/equipment to do a proper leak test but found that covering the front of the mask with my hand such that breathing out requires increased pressure, I can feel where air is leaking. Especially around the nose. Then getting the metal tab bent optimally and fitted to minimize that. Kind of ad hoc but with the Covid-19 prevalence at 5x the Spring peak it's the best I can do.
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Old 21st January 2021, 01:31 PM   #454
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My advice to the friends I've given FFP3s to is to bend the aluminium strip to get a good fit over the nose, adjust the height so that the mask just doesn't interfere with vision, and tighten both head straps as tight as possible. Then, if your glasses aren't misting up you're probably right, but you should also be able to feel a slight tendency for the paper part of the mask to puff out or suck in as you breathe out and in. Your idea about covering the valve to check is also a good one.

Obviously if a mask with an exit valve isn't allowed, then it isn't allowed, but it would be much better if everyone was wearing such a mask. My solution to such a restriction would be to put a valveless mask over the respirator mask, and I have done that (more for cosmetic reasons, I've never encountered a prohibition on valved masks), but the trouble is that this then starts causing your glasses to mist over again.

I certainly wouldn't go into a public indoor space for more than about two minutes without wearing an FFP3 mask, signs or no signs, although I would put another mask over it if required. And that's what I've advised my vulnerable friends to do. I really can't see any justification for declaring that people wearing respirator masks for daily tasks are wearing them wrongly or doing anything wrong.
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:28 PM   #455
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Re: Today's medical press conference. How nice to see Dr. Fauci again, and in a very good mood. When asked about the couple times he was joking about now actually being able to say "I don't know" instead of guessing, he said "I wasn't joking." Lots of science presented, not dumbed down. There was some banter and laughter among the reporters and the interviewees. How refreshing.

Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
My advice to the friends I've given FFP3s to is to bend the aluminium strip to get a good fit over the nose, adjust the height so that the mask just doesn't interfere with vision, and tighten both head straps as tight as possible. Then, if your glasses aren't misting up you're probably right, but you should also be able to feel a slight tendency for the paper part of the mask to puff out or suck in as you breathe out and in. Your idea about covering the valve to check is also a good one.

Obviously if a mask with an exit valve isn't allowed, then it isn't allowed, but it would be much better if everyone was wearing such a mask. My solution to such a restriction would be to put a valveless mask over the respirator mask, and I have done that (more for cosmetic reasons, I've never encountered a prohibition on valved masks), but the trouble is that this then starts causing your glasses to mist over again.

I certainly wouldn't go into a public indoor space for more than about two minutes without wearing an FFP3 mask, signs or no signs, although I would put another mask over it if required. And that's what I've advised my vulnerable friends to do. I really can't see any justification for declaring that people wearing respirator masks for daily tasks are wearing them wrongly or doing anything wrong.
As I mentioned previously, I wear a scarf over my N95 mask. Between the two (on the outside of the mask) I glued a couple pieces of soft foam that conform to the bridge of my nose. This presses the upper part of the mask snug against my face and I don't get fogging of my glasses. The scarf also helps make a seal all the way around, and is much more comfortable than ear straps.
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:29 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Re: Today's medical press conference. How nice to see Dr. Fauci again, and in a very good mood. When asked about the couple times he was joking about now actually being able to say "I don't know" instead of guessing, he said "I wasn't joking." Lots of science presented, not dumbed down. There was some banter and laughter among the reporters and the interviewees. How refreshing.
That's been exactly my thought too. Refreshing.
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:47 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
As I mentioned previously, I wear a scarf over my N95 mask. Between the two (on the outside of the mask) I glued a couple pieces of soft foam that conform to the bridge of my nose. This presses the upper part of the mask snug against my face and I don't get fogging of my glasses. The scarf also helps make a seal all the way around, and is much more comfortable than ear straps.

Oh, I see, I didn't understand you correctly the first time. I should try that. I have a snood I wear round my neck and I just pull it over my face if I'm stepping inside a small one-customer-at-a-time shop for a moment, and I also pull it over my FFP3 more as a cosmetic exercise if I'm going to be longer in an indoor space. There's essentially no way I'm catching this thing so I'm not going to be breathing it on other people, but I like to cover the elastic straps and so on. Sometimes. Your idea sounds good because it's the fogging of the glasses that's the pain, when you cover the exhalation valve. Being short-sighted I need my glasses, and I believe there's also some protective effect even though they're not actual safety glasses.
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Old 21st January 2021, 03:07 PM   #458
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Vox has a long article with advice preventing the more contagious versions circulating.

Still going to the grocery store? With new virus variants spreading, it’s probably time to stop.

It sounds extreme but they discuss why and options a person can try including shorter visits.

Double mask is another suggestion.

Quote:
The advantage the new variants carry seems to be that in any given situation where people are gathered, they’ll infect more people — an estimated 30 to 70 percent more in the case of the B.1.1.7 variant first identified in Britain, which has now been identified in 50 countries.

B.1.1.7 is already believed to be circulating at low levels across the US. On Friday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported it has been detected in 10 states and is expected to become the most prevalent variant by March. And for a preview of what might come, look at how cases surged in the UK and nearby countries where this variant gained a foothold:...[graph of case in the EU and UK]...

Even after a lockdown in the UK in November, the virus ripped through the population, overwhelming hospitals and forcing the government to implement even stricter stay-at-home orders by January.“Shopping for five minutes in the grocery store is a lot better — six times better — than shopping for 30 minutes,” said Tom Frieden, the former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, since the odds of becoming infected rise the longer you’re exposed. “Picking up groceries at the curbside is even better, and having them delivered is even better still.” (If you’re able to get groceries delivered or pick up curbside, it will also help reduce the number of people in stores, potentially cutting the risk for essential workers or shoppers who can’t order online.)

Further down:
Quote:
“Shopping for five minutes in the grocery store is a lot better — six times better — than shopping for 30 minutes,” said Tom Frieden, the former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, since the odds of becoming infected rise the longer you’re exposed. “Picking up groceries at the curbside is even better, and having them delivered is even better still.” (If you’re able to get groceries delivered or pick up curbside, it will also help reduce the number of people in stores, potentially cutting the risk for essential workers or shoppers who can’t order online.)...

...The emphasis here is on indoor activities. That’s because indoors is where most coronavirus transmission still takes place
Re the masks:
Quote:
“The fact that [the variants] are so infectious suggests to me having a better mask is a good idea,” Frieden said. When it comes to avoiding an infection, “a surgical mask is better than a cloth mask, a tight-fitting surgical mask is better than a loose-fitting mask, and an N95 is better than a surgical mask.”

Most Americans, however, still rely on cloth masks. Part of the problem is that the CDC continues to recommend cloth masks — what should have been a stopgap measure while the government procured better, medical-grade masks for citizens, Zeynep Tufekci and Jeremy Howard pointed out in the Atlantic.

This is a failure at a time when other countries around the world have managed to follow the evidence and get high-quality face coverings to people. It’s also an opportunity for the Biden administration to show leadership and learn from other countries.

In Austria, for example, the government is distributing FFP2 masks — the European equivalent of N95s — to citizens over the age of 65. In Taiwan, every citizen has access to new high-quality masks every week following the government’s manufacturing scale-up, Tufekci and Howard report. In Bavaria, Germany, the government has also boosted its mask supply and is mandating FFP2 masks on public transit and in stores.

If you can’t afford or access a higher-quality mask, Swann said, tight, well-fitting (cover that nose and mouth!) homemade masks with multiple layers are better than single-layer cloth masks. Similarly, double masking is better than single masking. And, of course, any mask is still better than no mask.

“But the best protection still remains avoiding contact with other people indoors, especially for a sustained period of time,” Goldstein added. “Masks are not 100 percent effective. Staying away from people is 100 percent effective.”
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Old 21st January 2021, 04:53 PM   #459
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I last went into a supermarket (wearing ye trusty FFP3) on 27th December. When the new variant was obviously spreading just after that I decided to live on my stores until things started looking up. I'm fortunate that I can get a limited selection of groceries including fresh fruit and vegetables from the local hotel. I'm now also picking up the order for the older couple I'm in a loose extended household with, as the lady of the house has also decided not to go into the village shop any more.

I think the new variant is a concern, and everyone should be doing the maximum to prevent transmission. I'm not even going into my friends' house, although it would be legal, because apparently the husband still goes into the shop sometimes despite his wife's protests.

I can probably avoid going into any shop until the end of April, and then it's mainly that I'll need cat food. Assuming Mr Accident Prone doesn't throw away his last couple of lives before then. I'll see how things look. If the concern is still high I can either pop quickly into the village one-customer-at-a-time newsagent (and he may even be back to leaving the shop door open by then) for the small expensive boxes, or make a run to the big pet emporium which has a huge air space, and be sure to use a new FFP3. If things are easing off I could consider going into a big supermarket while I'm at it, for a few things that might be running low. But I'm being ultra cautious even with two boxes of masks in the cupboard now (proceeds of checking the supplier's web site obsessively every day and getting an order in during the few days there was stock indicated - why they're not making a lot more of these things I have no idea).
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Old 21st January 2021, 05:59 PM   #460
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It's looking increasingly likely the Olympics will be cancelled: https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/...004024321?s=21
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Old 21st January 2021, 06:26 PM   #461
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I've thought that was inevitable for some time.
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Old 21st January 2021, 06:42 PM   #462
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No medical contraindication to giving the booster. But in rationing vaccine doses I would put them after more vulnerable people in the queue.

In addition, giving them the second dose later could result in a better/longer term booster effect.

Yeah, that’s kind of what we’ve been debating, especially that last part. There are five people (including myself) that we know of who got infected after their first dose, all healthcare workers. For myself, I was thinking right along with you -if I delay the second dose, theoretically I could extend immunity with the infection being the “second dose” and then the actual second dose coming a month or so after recovery.

But we were trying to figure out what the clinical protocol should be and we’ve been split between 1)What I want to do for me and 2)Just going ahead and giving the second dose on schedule and 3)Forgoing the second dose indefinitely, assuming they don’t need it because they have natural immunity and the doses can go to non-infected people. The thinking with #2 is that it doesn’t deviate from the recommendations and any deviation would be just us experimenting with no scientific backing. #2 is what I favor as a clinical policy.

But there’s a certain logic to #3 in a time of vaccine shortage. The problem still remains that there is no data out there to support such a policy but it’s more philosophical than scientific.
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Old 21st January 2021, 06:49 PM   #463
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One thing I've been wondering about is whether, if everybody gets only one shot instead of two, could that facilitate the virus mutating in such a way as to better overcome the vaccine?
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Old 21st January 2021, 07:00 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng View Post
One thing I've been wondering about is whether, if everybody gets only one shot instead of two, could that facilitate the virus mutating in such a way as to better overcome the vaccine?
That's a very good question.

Capsid would be the best person to answer it, I expect. If wayward antibiotic use contributes to antibiotic resistance, I think it's logical the same thing could happen with Covid.
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Old 21st January 2021, 08:41 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Yeah, that’s kind of what we’ve been debating, especially that last part. There are five people (including myself) that we know of who got infected after their first dose, all healthcare workers. For myself, I was thinking right along with you -if I delay the second dose, theoretically I could extend immunity with the infection being the “second dose” and then the actual second dose coming a month or so after recovery.

But we were trying to figure out what the clinical protocol should be and we’ve been split between 1)What I want to do for me and 2)Just going ahead and giving the second dose on schedule and 3)Forgoing the second dose indefinitely, assuming they don’t need it because they have natural immunity and the doses can go to non-infected people. The thinking with #2 is that it doesn’t deviate from the recommendations and any deviation would be just us experimenting with no scientific backing. #2 is what I favor as a clinical policy.

But there’s a certain logic to #3 in a time of vaccine shortage. The problem still remains that there is no data out there to support such a policy but it’s more philosophical than scientific.
My friend at Cedar Sinai said that if someone there gets infected after the first dose, they come off the list for 3 months.

They also have dedicated and unlimited testing available to any employee 24/7.
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Old 21st January 2021, 09:04 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
... But there’s a certain logic to #3 in a time of vaccine shortage. The problem still remains that there is no data out there to support such a policy but it’s more philosophical than scientific.
Philosophical would refer to who gets that second dose if she doesn't.

It's scientific to just look at the evidence which is incomplete and not a perfect match. You take the scientific evidence you have and you weigh the risks and benefits.

How high risk is she? How sick did she get with the infection? There is some literature out there which looks at people with reinfection and how mild or severe the first infection was.

Test her antibody titer when her 2nd dose is due.

Monitor that antibody titer if you decide to delay the dose.

Those would be the steps to take.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 21st January 2021 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 21st January 2021, 09:08 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
My friend at Cedar Sinai said that if someone there gets infected after the first dose, they come off the list for 3 months.

They also have dedicated and unlimited testing available to any employee 24/7.
An excellent plan from a hospital with significant expertise.
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Old 21st January 2021, 09:16 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng View Post
One thing I've been wondering about is whether, if everybody gets only one shot instead of two, could that facilitate the virus mutating in such a way as to better overcome the vaccine?
I would say it's possible. The question is increased risk by how much and what is the alternative.

Here is where one needs to start the theoretical math problem.

Say a vaccinated person got weak protection. That would allow virus to replicate and spread and there might be some selection pressure for vaccine resistance.

But you'd be vaccinating twice as many people, some of whom would get good protection. That eliminates viral replication in a significant number of hosts.

And so on... like a simulated war game.
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Old 21st January 2021, 10:12 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
My advice to the friends I've given FFP3s to is to bend the aluminium strip to get a good fit over the nose, adjust the height so that the mask just doesn't interfere with vision...
That's exactly what I do. I see many people wearing masks near the bottom of their nose with significant gaps around the edges. There really needs to be a better education program on how to wear masks properly and we need more availability of respirator masks. Cloth masks are marginal but better than nothing. It's simply unforgivable that decent masks aren't widely available for everyone after almost a year.
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Old 21st January 2021, 10:53 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
That's exactly what I do. I see many people wearing masks near the bottom of their nose with significant gaps around the edges. There really needs to be a better education program on how to wear masks properly and we need more availability of respirator masks. Cloth masks are marginal but better than nothing. It's simply unforgivable that decent masks aren't widely available for everyone after almost a year.
Maybe some good new this week...

https://www.bizjournals.com/twinciti...roduction.html

The big manufacturers/distributors got an anti-trust shield to manage masks as if it was one big supply chain. Like a mask cartel, but hopefully without the coordinated bump in prices.
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Old 21st January 2021, 11:20 PM   #471
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Just ordered some FFP3 masks, mainly because of the discussions in this thread.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 03:42 AM   #472
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I wouldn't put too much into that almost certainly just speculation.

Just look at the numbers of viral replication: There's a massive number in the massive second wave. Surely that by far surpasses the amount of viral replication in the smaller population of people chronically ill.

More replication, more mutations. And there's no reason to think the people with chronic infection are passing the virus on in any large numbers, whereas everyone else in the second wave incubating all those mutations are infecting lots of other people.
It depends on the selective pressure.

Someone who's surviving for months with a chronic Covid infection presumably has an immune system in near equilibrium with the virus, so each generation would be subject to an almost optimal selective pressure as far as immune response is concerned in a way that isn't similar for mpre normal cases.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 04:22 AM   #473
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Just ordered some FFP3 masks, mainly because of the discussions in this thread.

You're lucky you found a supplier with some in stock.

These are what we were given at work as protection when we were doing post mortem examinations on birds suspected of having bird flu. (And good grief that is twice the price I paid in November, they're certainly racking it up.) I had a couple in the house at the start of it all, when everyone was going on about N95, whatever that is.

I didn't see anything about N95 on my masks but I reckoned our health and safety people would have chosen the right product for the job so surely they'd be suitable. I did wonder though, because the literature goes on about "dust masks". Still, when I decided to try to acquire a few more I googled for the same product, on the basis of carrying on using what I was trained to use.

Now, in the past few weeks, I've seen more and more reference to FFP3 as the state of the art gold standard to protect against this thing. I've seen pictures of hospital doors with signs on them saying "FFP3 only beyond here", I've seen articles calling for staff on covid wards to be given them, not just in intensive care. When I went to my dentist and he saw what I was taking off to let him look at my broken crown he said, "FFP3? That's better than what they give me."

They're not difficult to wear. Although a face-fit test is idea, most people can follow instructions well enough to get it right. They're comfortable unless your face is a really weird shape. They're not expensive (or they weren't, they've just gone up from £5 to £10 each which is a bit of a facer). Spreading a lot more of these around the population at the start would have been a lot cheapr than thousands of people in intensive care.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 05:23 AM   #474
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That's a very good question.

Capsid would be the best person to answer it, I expect. If wayward antibiotic use contributes to antibiotic resistance, I think it's logical the same thing could happen with Covid.
It's more an issue in immunocompromised individuals who don't mount an adequate response which can allow the virus to persist and mutate.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 05:34 AM   #475
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Old 22nd January 2021, 11:00 AM   #476
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Originally Posted by Capsid View Post
It's more an issue in immunocompromised individuals who don't mount an adequate response which can allow the virus to persist and mutate.
Thanks!

Yet again, I'm going to note how amazing it is to have the breadth of knowledge we have in this thread - you, Planigale and xjx388 in particular.

The three of you - and others in the front lines (of knowledge and research as well as the actual front lines) - have maintained the thread as one of the most informative places on the entire internet.

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Old 22nd January 2021, 11:02 AM   #477
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Meanwhile, evidence from UK is suggesting their variant may be more deadly as well as more infectious. Early estimates are around 30%, with the rider that this is an unverified and very early estimate.

Chillingly, those same scientists at NERVTAG UK, are concerned about the vaccine working on the SA & Brazilian mutations: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55768627
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Old 22nd January 2021, 01:00 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Meanwhile, evidence from UK is suggesting their variant may be more deadly as well as more infectious. Early estimates are around 30%, with the rider that this is an unverified and very early estimate.

Chillingly, those same scientists at NERVTAG UK, are concerned about the vaccine working on the SA & Brazilian mutations: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55768627
The original document
https://assets.publishing.service.go...C__B.1.1.7.pdf
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Old 22nd January 2021, 02:37 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It depends on the selective pressure.

Someone who's surviving for months with a chronic Covid infection presumably has an immune system in near equilibrium with the virus, so each generation would be subject to an almost optimal selective pressure as far as immune response is concerned in a way that isn't similar for mpre normal cases.
Selective pressure is not confined to a simple pressure in a single individual.

It requires replication for the mutation to arise and it needs to then have favorable conditions for that one individual to spread the virus on plus amplification so it is not stopped.

These mutations have arisen in multiple locations worldwide.

Which is more likely, the mutation arises from gazillions and gazillions of replications or mutations arise in one individual with a selection pressure?
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Old 22nd January 2021, 02:41 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
You're lucky you found a supplier with some in stock.

These are what we were given at work as protection when we were doing post mortem examinations on birds suspected of having bird flu. (And good grief that is twice the price I paid in November, they're certainly racking it up.) I had a couple in the house at the start of it all, when everyone was going on about N95, whatever that is.

I didn't see anything about N95 on my masks but I reckoned our health and safety people would have chosen the right product for the job so surely they'd be suitable. I did wonder though, because the literature goes on about "dust masks". Still, when I decided to try to acquire a few more I googled for the same product, on the basis of carrying on using what I was trained to use.

Now, in the past few weeks, I've seen more and more reference to FFP3 as the state of the art gold standard to protect against this thing. I've seen pictures of hospital doors with signs on them saying "FFP3 only beyond here", I've seen articles calling for staff on covid wards to be given them, not just in intensive care. When I went to my dentist and he saw what I was taking off to let him look at my broken crown he said, "FFP3? That's better than what they give me."

They're not difficult to wear. Although a face-fit test is idea, most people can follow instructions well enough to get it right. They're comfortable unless your face is a really weird shape. They're not expensive (or they weren't, they've just gone up from £5 to £10 each which is a bit of a facer). Spreading a lot more of these around the population at the start would have been a lot cheapr than thousands of people in intensive care.
The N in N95 is for NIOSH. The EU and Oz don't use the same labels.
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