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Old 20th January 2021, 03:30 AM   #3361
Tolls
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Yep.
"We should be allowed to control who catches our fish, so we want to leave the EU!"
"Who do you sell your fish to?"
"The EU!"
"Do you not see an issue with that at all?"
"Project Fear!"
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Old 20th January 2021, 04:47 AM   #3362
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The world will only take the U.K. seriously if we show we act independently of the EU. The U.K. believes in free trade and democracy, peace and human rights, which it has a fine history promoting.

The government needs to enforce the rights of U.K. traders to buy and sell into and out of Northern Ireland as they always have done in the past. The U.K. Union thrives on an open and free U.K. single market which the EU wants to disrupt with its approach to Northern Ireland.

Standing up for U.K. values does not mean giving in to every EU demand. There is a big difference between supporting a moral international order and accepting every attempt by the EU to assert their interests over ours.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:00 AM   #3363
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
John Redwood Tweets

@johnredwood
The world will only take the U.K. seriously if we show we act independently of the EU. The U.K. believes in free trade and democracy, peace and human rights, which it has a fine history promoting.

The government needs to enforce the rights of U.K. traders to buy and sell into and out of Northern Ireland as they always have done in the past. The U.K. Union thrives on an open and free U.K. single market which the EU wants to disrupt with its approach to Northern Ireland.

Standing up for U.K. values does not mean giving in to every EU demand. There is a big difference between supporting a moral international order and accepting every attempt by the EU to assert their interests over ours.
The UK believes in Human Rights *glances at Priti Patel and sniggers*
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:03 AM   #3364
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The UK believes in Human Rights *glances at Priti Patel and sniggers*
Come on that isn’t fair - she is probably human.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:03 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Come on that isn’t fair - she is probably human.
But never right.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:03 AM   #3366
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
John Redwood Tweets

@johnredwood
The world will only take the U.K. seriously if we show we act independently of the EU. The U.K. believes in free trade and democracy, peace and human rights, which it has a fine history promoting.

The government needs to enforce the rights of U.K. traders to buy and sell into and out of Northern Ireland as they always have done in the past. The U.K. Union thrives on an open and free U.K. single market which the EU wants to disrupt with its approach to Northern Ireland.

Standing up for U.K. values does not mean giving in to every EU demand. There is a big difference between supporting a moral international order and accepting every attempt by the EU to assert their interests over ours.
We are totally free to reinstate a free UK single market. We only need to reserect a hard physical border between NI and the test of Ireland which bring me to the highlighted parts above......
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:04 AM   #3367
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
But never right.
I don't know she seems far right to me.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:06 AM   #3368
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UK government rejects 'musician passports' as stars attack 'shameful' touring deal

Quote:
“The reality is that British musicians, dancers, actors and their support staff have been shamefully failed by their government.”

Just like the rest of us, then.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:13 AM   #3369
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We believe in free trade and human rights and to show you just how much we do we voted to leave the largest free trade area on the planet and want to leave the ECHR.

We believe in democracy and the Union and that's why we will deny the countries of the union the right to decide their own futures democratically.

And we believe in peace and that's why this Wiki page is so long.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...2%80%93present)

Try again Mr Redwood maybe something like:

We believe that being British makes us superior to the rest of the world and therefore the rules shouldn't apply to us. We believe in the right to treat the rest of the world as our property and take what we want but never to be held accountable. We believe that you are stupid enough to believe us when we lie to your faces.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:20 AM   #3370
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Roger Daltry is outraged by it and is insisting the govt has to do something.

The same Roger Daltry that supported Brexit and was calling the EU a 'Mafia'.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:36 AM   #3371
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Roger Daltry is outraged
Good. ********.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:39 AM   #3372
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Roger Daltry is outraged by it and is insisting the govt has to do something.

The same Roger Daltry that supported Brexit and was calling the EU a 'Mafia'.
It is astonishing the number of people that seem surprised by all these changes and loss of rights, it is only a shame no one explained these changes and loss of rights before the referendum, perhaps people would have decided differently.
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:26 AM   #3373
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Customs is a pretty simple serial process. If the docs aren't right in one place they don't pass it on to the next one.

So either someone made a mistake or the only other explanation I can think of is that it left the UK before Jan 1 and arrived in the EU after Jan 1?

if I didn't have the right paperwork it should never have been sent let alone cleared UK customs. And if it hasn't cleared UK customs then it can't have been legally sent to Finland. And yet it sits in Finland.

If it's fallen into the Jan 1 transition black hole then God knows what happens to it. Probably a controlled detonation. I wouldn't be paying it if it's more than the value of the item. That's for sure.
The parcel I was expecting before Christmas arrived after the new year. Late but no problems. This one was sent circa 7th Jan, it was ordered via Amazon apparently and nobody seems to want to take responsibilty for it. Tulli said it was to do with Britain having problems with Brexit. Why would they want to worry about it?

The sender was not to know Amazon couldn't deliver.
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:30 AM   #3374
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Just to add to the fun, apparently there are many exporters in the UK who still do not use the correct pallet for exporting to the EU:
https://metroshipping.co.uk/news/the...ts-for-brexit/

It is not currently checked, but will be in the future.

This is to prevent pests in the wood from getting into the EU. We were exempt, as part of the EU, but now we have left, we need specially treated pallets (ISPM 15-compliant).

Discussion here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3aAC_3czNg

I just hope we are able to treat the pallets ourselves, and get them certified, rather than having to import them from the EU.
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:31 AM   #3375
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Interesting that this is rules of origin kicking in as I originally thought 'but there aren't any tariffs on car imports from the EU in the deal'
Exactly. If someone wants a top of the range model then they'll look at price but if they know that the Ford is only £15K more than the humble Dacia Duster because of tariffs and charges but not because of superior technology they just won't buy. Might as well shell out another £15K for a genuinely top of the range car. Ford is a popular car and it will sell on brand name but margins do matter, especially in a recession.
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:31 AM   #3376
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post

One “comfort” of the UK is that the majority language is a form of English, in the other country they pretend to not understand English even when things are said very loud and very slowly!
Wales?
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:34 AM   #3377
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Yep.
"We should be allowed to control who catches our fish, so we want to leave the EU!"
"Who do you sell your fish to?"
"The EU!"
"Do you not see an issue with that at all?"
"Project Fear!"
As the resident Brexiteer points out, now that there is no-one to catch the fish and no-one to sell the fish to, it is good for sustainability as now the fish can go forth and spawn in peace.
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:36 AM   #3378
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It is astonishing the number of people that seem surprised by all these changes and loss of rights, it is only a shame no one explained these changes and loss of rights before the referendum, perhaps people would have decided differently.

The last time I tried to explain that to a Brexiteer it was like trying to describe autoerotic asphyxiation to a nun except that instead of refusing to listen and muttering "Saints preserve us" they chanted "Project Fear".



On the plus side I did get to use a riposte I had saved
Him "I don't want to argue anymore."
"I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why you're wrong."


The argument actually started with the guy I was with talking to the Brexiteers pal who was a friend. My pal said he was considering moving to Scotland and the Brexiteer went straight on the attack with his one fact "Oh so you want to live in a place where 1 pint could see you over the drink drive limit do you?". My mate just turned to me (a Scot) and said "Rob, over to you".
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:41 AM   #3379
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
We believe in free trade and human rights and to show you just how much we do we voted to leave the largest free trade area on the planet and want to leave the ECHR.

We believe in democracy and the Union and that's why we will deny the countries of the union the right to decide their own futures democratically.

And we believe in peace and that's why this Wiki page is so long.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...2%80%93present)

Try again Mr Redwood maybe something like:

We believe that being British English makes us superior to the rest of the world and therefore the rules shouldn't apply to us. We believe in the right to treat the rest of the world as our property and take what we want but never to be held accountable. We believe that you are stupid enough to believe us when we lie to your faces.
FTFY
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:46 AM   #3380
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Roger Daltry is outraged by it and is insisting the govt has to do something.

The same Roger Daltry that supported Brexit and was calling the EU a 'Mafia'.
That deaf dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball. Roger Daltrey really is Tommy. Pro-Brexit, Tory. He's just a boy giving it all away. ****.
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Old 20th January 2021, 07:37 AM   #3381
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That deaf dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball. Roger Daltrey really is Tommy. Pro-Brexit, Tory. He's just a boy giving it all away. ****.
Oooooh, he knows better now.

Dave
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Old 20th January 2021, 07:57 AM   #3382
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
Just to add to the fun, apparently there are many exporters in the UK who still do not use the correct pallet for exporting to the EU:
https://metroshipping.co.uk/news/the...ts-for-brexit/

It is not currently checked, but will be in the future.

This is to prevent pests in the wood from getting into the EU. We were exempt, as part of the EU, but now we have left, we need specially treated pallets (ISPM 15-compliant).

Discussion here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3aAC_3czNg

I just hope we are able to treat the pallets ourselves, and get them certified, rather than having to import them from the EU.
May I recommend the following podcast on pallets. The podcast title is British humour!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05xltbh
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:26 AM   #3383
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It is astonishing the number of people that seem surprised by all these changes and loss of rights, it is only a shame no one explained these changes and loss of rights before the referendum, perhaps people would have decided differently.
It probabaly wouldn't have helped. IMO there are parallels to anti-vax. People who have lived in places and times when vaccinations are not available almost always consider vaccinations a godsend.

Anti-vax typically arises in countries where vaccines are readily available and widely used. In countries like this people are never exposed to what life is like without vaccinations and it seems like no amount of education or information will ever make them realize just how important vaccines are to them.

There is also another parallel in that they think I should be free to do whatever they want but expect someone else to make it happen. They also feel entitled to benefit from the efforts of others even while refusing to contribute to those efforts. Anti vaxers expect to retain all the benefits of herd immunity to protect themselves from disease but think they are entitled to that without contributing to it personally. In the case of Brexiters they think the EU should accommodate them so they can enjoy all the benefits of being in the EU but without contributing to the efforts that make those benefits possible in the first place.
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:34 AM   #3384
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As the resident Brexiteer points out, now that there is no-one to catch the fish and no-one to sell the fish to, it is good for sustainability as now the fish can go forth and spawn in peace.
Catching fewer fish is better for the ocean ecosystem, but fish certainly won't be able to spawn in peace just because no one bothers to catch them in UK waters. Fish don't know where the border is and most will routinely cross that border as part of their normal migrations. If fishing in UK waters drops off more fish can and will be caught on the EU side of that border.
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Old 20th January 2021, 09:04 AM   #3385
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As the resident Brexiteer points out, now that there is no-one to catch the fish and no-one to sell the fish to, it is good for sustainability as now the fish can go forth and spawn in peace.
Yes the fish probably are bit happier, or as happier as fish can be anyway
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Old 20th January 2021, 09:31 AM   #3386
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Catching fewer fish is better for the ocean ecosystem, but fish certainly won't be able to spawn in peace just because no one bothers to catch them in UK waters. Fish don't know where the border is and most will routinely cross that border as part of their normal migrations. If fishing in UK waters drops off more fish can and will be caught on the EU side of that border.
Indeed. EU ships will be able to catch what they want and won't have to pay the UK anything. Who said brexit couldn't be having your cake and eating it?
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Old 20th January 2021, 09:33 AM   #3387
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Catching fewer fish is better for the ocean ecosystem, but fish certainly won't be able to spawn in peace just because no one bothers to catch them in UK waters. Fish don't know where the border is and most will routinely cross that border as part of their normal migrations. If fishing in UK waters drops off more fish can and will be caught on the EU side of that border.
But these are BRITISH fish. They won't be lowering themselves to swim in foreign waters or god forbid be caught by one of those swarthy types.
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Old 20th January 2021, 11:51 AM   #3388
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
But these are BRITISH fish. They won't be lowering themselves to swim in foreign waters or god forbid be caught by one of those swarthy types.
What if they are illegal immigrants who crossed the border as fingerlings and have been sponging off the UK and steeling the food out of the mouths of good English fish ever since? The UK really needs to get the Royal Navy patrolling to keep the parasites out.
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Old 20th January 2021, 07:16 PM   #3389
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A few more pigeons coming home to roost: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-brexit-rules
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Old 21st January 2021, 01:48 AM   #3390
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
What if they are illegal immigrants who crossed the border as fingerlings and have been sponging off the UK and steeling the food out of the mouths of good English fish ever since? The UK really needs to get the Royal Navy patrolling to keep the parasites out.
Depth charges...it's the only answer!
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:05 AM   #3391
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Seems like consumers are paying the price for Boris Johnson's Brexit deal.

Quote:
Brexit: 'I was asked to pay an extra £82 for my £200 coat'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

Quote:
She was surprised when she then received a text from courier company DPD, containing a link asking her to pay £58 in customs duties, VAT and additional charges for her £180 order.

On top of that, the UPS courier for the second parcel showed up at her door several days later, asking for an extra payment of £82 for her £200 coat.
Trade (in goods) may be tariff-free but that doesn't mean that UK consumers aren't going to have to pay through the nose.

Quote:
When the UK was part of the European Union's customs union, goods could move freely between the country and other member states without import taxes being charged.

But Ellie was one of the shoppers caught unaware of the fact that those rules have changed since the UK's official exit.

EU retailers sending packages to the UK now need to fill out customs declaration forms. Shoppers may also have to pay customs or VAT charges, depending on the value of the product and where it came from.

However, these are the responsibility of the customer, not the retailer, who often has no idea of how much the eventual extra cost might be.

They cannot be paid in advance and are levied only when the item reaches the UK.
At this stage I'm no longer asking when we might see these sunny uplands - I'd just like someone to be able to tell me what they might look like.
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:15 AM   #3392
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It's beginning to look like it's actually worse than "Project Fear" predicted.
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:35 AM   #3393
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
FTFY
People like Redwood think those two words are synonymous.
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:36 AM   #3394
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
A few more pigeons coming home to roost: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-brexit-rules
Are they happy British pigeons?
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:38 AM   #3395
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Seems like consumers are paying the price for Boris Johnson's Brexit deal.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
She lost! Get over it! Will of the people!

Who needs fancy £200 foreign coats when you can get good old fashioned British sackcloths from the bodies of the dead?
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:49 AM   #3396
jimbob
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More utterly unsurprising news to those of us who pointed out the impact of unpredictable delays on time critical goods

https://westcountrybylines.co.uk/qua...brexit-whammy/
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:49 AM   #3397
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
On the plus side I did get to use a riposte I had saved
Him "I don't want to argue anymore."
"I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why you're wrong."
I like James O'Brien's "This isn't an opinion, it's counting".
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Old 21st January 2021, 02:58 AM   #3398
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
More utterly unsurprising news to those of us who pointed out the impact of unpredictable delays on time critical goods

https://westcountrybylines.co.uk/qua...brexit-whammy/
Exactly what we all said years ago. The only quibble I would have is that this is a result of leaving the EU not the deal that Boris negotiated. The deal doesn't replicate all the benefits of being in the EU but that was always to be expected.
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Old 21st January 2021, 03:28 AM   #3399
erwinl
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
More utterly unsurprising news to those of us who pointed out the impact of unpredictable delays on time critical goods

https://westcountrybylines.co.uk/qua...brexit-whammy/
It's even worse for the UK than I originally thought.
I feel for the honest Brits, who do want to make the best of it.

I would be lying, though, if I said, I didn't feel any schadenfreude concernig this whole salvo shooting one's own feet.
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Last edited by erwinl; 21st January 2021 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 21st January 2021, 03:39 AM   #3400
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Wales?
Birmingham
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