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Tags D.I.D. , Dr. Phil , false memory syndrome , Judy Byington , mind control , mpd , multiple personalities , recovered memory therapy , satanic ritual abuse

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Old 24th March 2015, 08:37 PM   #2081
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Originally Posted by Son of Inigo View Post
So just how are memories held neurologically?

Lovingly, tenderly, in the palm of the brain's hand.

Seriously, that's a question LI proponents should be willing and able to answer. It might be worth writing their developer/contact person, Peggy Pace (who can be reached here: ppace@LifespanIntegration.com ) to ask that. If approached gently, there's a chance she might even respond. Then again, it might be more satisfying to make your skepticism obvious. You could pass along a link to this thread.

I'll leave you with this work of art from Ms Pace's informative article, The Neuroscience of Lifespan Integration Therapy:

This diagram represents a fragmented self system of separated neural networks. There is no solid core or ‘center’ of the self.
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Old 25th March 2015, 07:36 PM   #2082
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
Lovingly, tenderly, in the palm of the brain's hand.

Seriously, that's a question LI proponents should be willing and able to answer. It might be worth writing their developer/contact person, Peggy Pace (who can be reached here: ppace@LifespanIntegration.com ) to ask that. If approached gently, there's a chance she might even respond. Then again, it might be more satisfying to make your skepticism obvious. You could pass along a link to this thread.

I'll leave you with this work of art from Ms Pace's informative article, The Neuroscience of Lifespan Integration Therapy:

This diagram represents a fragmented self system of separated neural networks. There is no solid core or ‘center’ of the self.
http://i.imgur.com/gAhZYfC.jpg
Isn't that the logo of the Intergalactic Trans-planetary Olympics?
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Old 26th March 2015, 08:05 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Isn't that the logo of the Intergalactic Trans-planetary Olympics?

No. It's missing the infrared circle.
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Old 5th May 2015, 06:47 AM   #2084
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Mercy Ministries: The Wild West of Recovered Memory Therapy

Hey JRE-- er, ISers, please consider reading and signing the petition linked at the top of this page:

The Devil and Mercy Ministries: A Conversation with Chelsea Darhower

To my knowledge, Mercy Ministries hasn't been mentioned here, or perhaps only in passing. They are generally upstaged by places like Castlewood Treatment Center, which was getting a lot of publicity with the lawsuits filed against them.

Mercy Ministries combines the worst of faith-based malpractice with the worst of the Recovered Memory techniques. They are keen to accept applicants who are diagnosed with DID, not because it will guarantee them years of steady income with long-term treatment, but because the founder, Nancy Alcorn is obsessed with "deliverance sessions" (casting out demons) and she believes (and hires staff who agree with her) that the "alters" are demons. This gets her a lot of traction among the Pentecostal sect and among many Christians who still believe in such things, and think shes performing some miraculous service. Many of the residents also leave having "recovered" memories of "extreme abuse", Ritual Abuse, or "memories" of having been a victim of human trafficking. Repressed/recovered memories of human trafficking is replacing repressed memories of Satanic Ritual Abuse in these circles.

Unlike places like Castlewood, Mercy Ministries is not an accredited, licensed mental health care facility. They are, in fact, listed as a charity. While Castlewood at least has some standards they must adhere to, Mercy Ministries doesn't even have that -- there is no oversight at all, and the residents who leave more broken than they arrived are left with no recourse.

Please take a moment to read, or at least skim, the conversation with Chelsea Darhower, former Mercy Ministries resident, and consider signing the petition to the Governor of Tennessee requesting that he investigate and hold Mercy to some standard of practice (or better, simply shut them down).
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Old 5th May 2015, 09:16 AM   #2085
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Signed.

Thanks for posting the link.
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Old 5th May 2015, 05:10 PM   #2086
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Signed. The comments from the signers - both people who were "treated" at Mercy Ministries as well as their family - are heart wrenching.
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Old 5th May 2015, 08:28 PM   #2087
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
From an open letter to Dr Phil by Douglas Mesner at Examiner:

http://www.examiner.com/article/jour...-health-menace





Just this week, Dr Phil was promoting the use of psychics in missing persons cases. Now this?!

The man is a menace, alright. Disgusting.
Him, Dr. Oz, Montel Williams - and so many more. All slime that should be trodden underfoot or jailed for life for the idiocies they promote to capture their audiences of inept, incredulous, incompetent fools.
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Old 6th May 2015, 06:20 AM   #2088
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Xterra and ddt, heartfelt thanks to both of you.

Yes, in any write-up on Mercy Ministries where parents and former residents comment, one is bound to see the most heart-wrenching accounts

As an aside, since the formation of False Memory Facebook group, it's been an interesting and rather heartwarming experience to see so many religious people, many of them devout, so grateful and appreciative of the skeptics there who are interested in their plight and want to help them get justice. When the group was new, most of the (primarily religious) false memory retractors and the families who lost their children/spouses/siblings quickly became aware that a significant number in the group were nonbelievers and skeptics, but beyond a few civil discussions here and there, it has never been an issue. The conversations don't devolve into religion or atheism bashing. For those families, the experience has changed their view of atheists and skeptics in a positive way.
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Old 9th May 2015, 11:47 PM   #2089
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Old 10th May 2015, 09:53 PM   #2090
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Him, Dr. Oz, Montel Williams - and so many more. All slime that should be trodden underfoot or jailed for life for the idiocies they promote to capture their audiences of inept, incredulous, incompetent fools.
It bears noting that the article linked in the post you quoted was written before the show in question aired. In the show as it eventually aired, Dr. Phil projects an air of cautious skepticism of Judy's claims, and puts challenging questions to her at least twice. As a result the audience audibly disapproves of Judy's control over her victim's money. Judy looks around nervously as her credibility is questioned and undermined on national television. It's a pretty sweet moment.

Whether Dr. Phil deserves the branding of "slime that should be trodden underfoot or jailed for life for the idiocies they promote to capture their audiences of inept, incredulous, incompetent fools" is an open question, but from a reasoned perspective he did nothing objectionable in this particulat instance, beyond allowing Judy to appear on his show.
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Old 11th May 2015, 12:45 AM   #2091
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Thanks, Vortigern99!
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Old 15th May 2015, 09:08 AM   #2092
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Signed.
Thank you, Orphia

Fuelair, as others have noted, the Dr. Phil show turned out better than expected, and the fallout eventually prompted Judy Byington to mimic Doug with her own poorly-written Open Letter to Dr. Phil.

Having said that, I tend to agree with you about talk show hosts in general. They had a significant role in instigating the Satanic Panic the first time around, and it's disgraceful how many hack journalists are still giving positive press to charlatans (Teal Scott, aka Teal Swan, for example) who claim Satanic Ritual Abuse.

Here's one of Teal Scott's interviews with a FOX/ABC affiliate:
https://youtu.be/B1CxV_nISyE
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Old 15th May 2015, 12:22 PM   #2093
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
Having said that, I tend to agree with you about talk show hosts in general. They had a significant role in instigating the Satanic Panic the first time around, and it's disgraceful how many hack journalists are still giving positive press to charlatans (Teal Scott, aka Teal Swan, for example) who claim Satanic Ritual Abuse.
Don't forget Geraldo Rivera who still has a job as a reporter to this day (almost three decades later).
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Old 15th May 2015, 11:35 PM   #2094
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I don't buy into the quoted material in the OP, however, there is such a thing as Satanism. And Satanists idolize and worship the Devil just as other religions deities are worshipped by their adherents.

Are they going to do extreme counterculture stuff, like weird ass perverse rituals? Yeah. Do they all? No, probably not. But just as we see in all religions, there is a certain percentage of the ideological community who take their beliefs very, very seriously.
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Old 15th May 2015, 11:43 PM   #2095
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Do you have evidence of such rituals being practiced? And when I mean such rituals, I am not talking about naked dancing around a fire. I am talking about actual perverse stuff, virgin/infant sacrifice and such.
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:24 AM   #2096
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This one will get the Satanic ritual people going:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296682
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Old 5th August 2015, 06:17 PM   #2097
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Originally Posted by godless dave View Post
I don't know about that, but there have been plenty of studies showing that recovered "memories" are often fictional.

The recovered memory hysteria keeps on coming back. I suspect most of these are based on fictitious memory.


Now if Doctor Phil would only have come out against the Catholic priests, there would not be so much objection to these revelations.

I conjecture that a lot of this sexual abuse priest outrage is also based fictitious memory. There is more repressed anger at the Catholic church than repressed memories. People are being goaded to remember sexual abuse that sometimes didn't happened.

I am no fan of the Catholic Church. Further, I know that there has been a steady background of sexual abuse all through the Churches history. The celibacy custom amplifies the sexual abuse singal among clergy.

However, I have serious doubt that there has been more abuse than in the past. A sceptic could ask why all these repressed memories are surface now. It seems to me that the 'repressed memory' hysteria comes back in different forms.

No sooner than those alien abduction stories get mainstreamed but the Satanic cult stories start. Only a decade after the public gets bored with Satanic cults, then men start remembering the abuses of their priest.

I have no doubt that some of these 'anecdotes' are based on some reality. However, memories get distorted as well as repressed. The anecdotes get so twisted that the truth is lost.

The irony is that the Roman Catholic church pioneered the sexual abuse hysteria. The Roman Catholic church invented the Satanic cult as a tool of repression. They and the Protestants burnt many women on the basis of a repressed 'memory', often released by torture. It is ironic that many Roman Catholic priests are being persecuted now with as little evidence as when witch trials were trendy. It is both a miscarriage of justice and a form of justice that priests are now the victims of hysteria.

Anyway, I think there should be more work on recognition of abuse while it is happening. There should be more emphasis on preventing a pattern of abuse then in punishing supposed malefactors. 'Repressed memories' often acquire mistaken targets for justice.

Repressed memories should not be solicited. However, I think parents should pay more attention to what their children say in the here and now.

Anyone else see the movie 'Doubt'?
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:20 PM   #2098
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and, signed!!
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:30 PM   #2099
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Originally Posted by Darwin123 View Post
The recovered memory hysteria keeps on coming back. I suspect most of these are based on fictitious memory.


Now if Doctor Phil would only have come out against the Catholic priests, there would not be so much objection to these revelations.

I conjecture that a lot of this sexual abuse priest outrage is also based fictitious memory. There is more repressed anger at the Catholic church than repressed memories. People are being goaded to remember sexual abuse that sometimes didn't happened.

I am no fan of the Catholic Church. Further, I know that there has been a steady background of sexual abuse all through the Churches history. The celibacy custom amplifies the sexual abuse singal among clergy.

However, I have serious doubt that there has been more abuse than in the past. A sceptic could ask why all these repressed memories are surface now. It seems to me that the 'repressed memory' hysteria comes back in different forms.

No sooner than those alien abduction stories get mainstreamed but the Satanic cult stories start. Only a decade after the public gets bored with Satanic cults, then men start remembering the abuses of their priest.

I have no doubt that some of these 'anecdotes' are based on some reality. However, memories get distorted as well as repressed. The anecdotes get so twisted that the truth is lost.

The irony is that the Roman Catholic church pioneered the sexual abuse hysteria. The Roman Catholic church invented the Satanic cult as a tool of repression. They and the Protestants burnt many women on the basis of a repressed 'memory', often released by torture. It is ironic that many Roman Catholic priests are being persecuted now with as little evidence as when witch trials were trendy. It is both a miscarriage of justice and a form of justice that priests are now the victims of hysteria.

Anyway, I think there should be more work on recognition of abuse while it is happening. There should be more emphasis on preventing a pattern of abuse then in punishing supposed malefactors. 'Repressed memories' often acquire mistaken targets for justice.

Repressed memories should not be solicited. However, I think parents should pay more attention to what their children say in the here and now.

Anyone else see the movie 'Doubt'?
As far as I know, we are not usually talking about repressed memories with these cases. That would be one huge difference (not that it couldn't happen, of course).

As for your doubts regarding there being more sexual abuse by priests now than in the past, I also have my doubts about there being more autistic children now than in the past. The reason for the apparent discrepancies are similar. Autism spectrum disorder diagnostic criteria are simply broader now than they used to be years ago (as well as there simply being greater awareness). Likewise, more people are speaking up now than used to be the case before. 40 years ago (and sooner, for that matter) people simply didn't speak up. Most of the time, nothing was done beyond the making of distasteful jokes about it and looking the other way. That doesn't mean that it happened any less.

Jimmy Dore at this video does a good job of representing the attitudes back then including those of the adults.

It's not just about the signal; it's also about how you are looking for the signal.
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Old 8th August 2015, 06:15 PM   #2100
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
As far as I know, we are not usually talking about repressed memories with these cases. That would be one huge difference (not that it couldn't happen, of course).

As for your doubts regarding there being more sexual abuse by priests now than in the past, I also have my doubts about there being more autistic children now than in the past. The reason for the apparent discrepancies are similar. Autism spectrum disorder diagnostic criteria are simply broader now than they used to be years ago (as well as there simply being greater awareness). Likewise, more people are speaking up now than used to be the case before. 40 years ago (and sooner, for that matter) people simply didn't speak up. Most of the time, nothing was done beyond the making of distasteful jokes about it and looking the other way. That doesn't mean that it happened any less.

Jimmy Dore at this video does a good job of representing the attitudes back then including those of the adults.

It's not just about the signal; it's also about how you are looking for the signal.
The liberal media and law enforcement agencies are obviously in on the conspiracy. For the last fifty years at least, there have been no stories with hard evidence about sexual abuse and pedophilia from pagans including Satanists. However, it seems like every day that we here a story about sexual abuse concerning Catholic priests, Protestant ministers, Jewish Rabbis and of course Moslem clerics.

Hardly anything about sexual abuse from the Eastern religions, either. Yes, there have been some. Gurus with a tantric belief system, etc. With those few exceptions, almost no sexual abuse from the heathens.

It is a miracle!
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Old 11th August 2015, 12:09 AM   #2101
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Originally Posted by Darwin123 View Post
Hardly anything about sexual abuse from the Eastern religions, either. Yes, there have been some. Gurus with a tantric belief system, etc. With those few exceptions, almost no sexual abuse from the heathens.
Not giving tantra any credence whatsoever, the reason for this is probably that consensuality (is that a word?) Is a very important part of the "philosophy". So since there should be no coercion the question of abuse is moot. On a more secular note...probably makes for some kinky fun times.
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Old 11th August 2015, 08:44 AM   #2102
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Not giving tantra any credence whatsoever, the reason for this is probably that consensuality (is that a word?) Is a very important part of the "philosophy". So since there should be no coercion the question of abuse is moot. On a more secular note...probably makes for some kinky fun times.
I don't know. As they become more and more popular, there does seem to be an increased probability of sexual improprieties. I guess the difference is that in the West you don't have to make it big to be a sex offender (I think the hypothesis that the same thing could be at play as in the West has to be considered, though: it may also be about how you are looking for the signal). Presently, in this country (USA) the one in the public eye seems to be Bikram Choudhury (though you could argue he's not a religious guru) with various sexual harassment and sexual assault allegations. Apparently, many Bikram associated studios are removing their association with the man because of this.

And, by the way, in India, in common usage, "tantra" seems to refer to the more "witchy" types of folk, not necessarily to anything sexual.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 10:14 AM   #2103
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Just this week, Dr Phil was promoting the use of psychics in missing persons cases. Now this?!

The man is a menace, alright. Disgusting.
Okay, no one can claim Dr. Phil is a good Christian!


Witchcraft is a belief that predates Christianity. Animists, for example, often believe in demonic possession and supernatural curses. Murdering/executing witches started among pagans. In fact, the Church in early medieval times condemned witch accusers. Many Christian kings and priests condemned the persecution of alleged witches and sorcerers.

Witchcraft ‘murders’ are quite common in aboriginal, pagan peoples even today. Many witchcraft murders occur in animist communities. The concept of witchcraft is often associated with the concept of jinx. If a people near a particular person are suffering misfortune, then the people near by will try to kill that person to get rid of the ‘curse’. The tribe may not even think the jinx does it on purpose. If the person didn’t plan it, then he is possessed. ‘Possessed people’ get killed, too. When witch hysteria starts to spread, the Church tends to hop on this animist bandwagon

The tide turned in the late medieval period. Towards the very end of the medieval period, just previous to the ‘Enlightenment’, there was a witch hysteria that by far exceeded anything witchcraft hysteria by pagans. The churches of the day, both Catholic AND Protestant, promoted the trial, imprisonment, torture and execution of witches for supernatural crimes. With the help of the Church, sincere Christians burned and hanged tens of thousands of people on the basis of magical crimes.

The Christian supported persecution far exceeded anything done before maybe because advances in technology and secular. The ‘burning times’ occurred very soon after Gutenbergs ‘invention’ of the printing press. Books on how to find and torment witches were widely circulated. The invention of a very efficient printing press (not the first printing press) impacted society much like the internet does today.


Further, the law was purposely slanted to find witches. The secular laws were twisted so that someone could be condemned for witchcraft for evidence that had been previously unacceptable. Evidence could be the testimony of someone being tortured. Evidence could be someone else bad dream. This started a chain reaction that soon generated tens of thousands of convictions.

I suspect that much of the resurgence in ‘witchcraft’ accusations is being driven by the Internet. Again, churches and mosques are jumping on the’witch-hunt’ bandwagon. I don’t think this will get very far unless the secular law starts to accommodate the witch hunters.

There were also translations of the Bible which talked about witches. There isn’t a word in Hebrew that precisely corresponds to the supernatural witch. The Bible condemns psychics, which are people who openly claim to have supernatural powers. The Bible condemns pagan priests, who claimed supernatural powers. However, this concept was more like heresy than supernatural witchcraft.

Control of the weather was seen more as proof that the prophets were talking to God. In the Bible, the Prophets seem to have a direct in with the god of the storm. Ahab persecuted Elijah because he thought Elijah caused the drought. Ahab was pagan, accusing Elijah of witchcraft. It was the God of the Hebrews who was thought of as a ‘Devil’, not Baal of Tyre. Elijah didn’t believe that the priests of Baal had magic powers. It was the Hebrew Prophets who were accused of supernatural witchcraft, not the pagan priests.

Someone should tell the religious leaders.


Make no mistake, though. The belief in supernatural witchcraft is very fungible. Christians can easily


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt
‘Christianisation and Early Middle Ages[edit]
The Councils of Elvira (306), Ancyra (314), and Trullo (692) imposed certain ecclesiastical penances for devil-worship. This mild approach represented the view of the Church for many centuries. The general desire of the Catholic Church's clergy to check fanaticism about witchcraft and necromancy is shown in the decrees of the Council of Paderborn, which, in 785, explicitly outlawed condemning people as witches and condemned to death anyone who burnt a witch.
The Lombard code of 643 states:
"Let nobody presume to kill a foreign serving maid or female servant as a witch, for it is not possible, nor ought to be believed by Christian minds."[15]
This conforms to the teachings of the Canon Episcopi of circa 900 AD (alleged to date from 314 AD), which, following the thoughts of Augustine of Hippo, stated that witchcraft did not exist and that to teach that it was a reality was, itself, false and heterodox teaching. The Council of Frankfurt in 794, called by Charlemagne, was also very explicit in condemning "the persecution of alleged witches and wizards", calling the belief in witchcraft "superstitious", and ordering the death penalty for those who presumed to burn witches.[16]
Other examples include an Irish synod in 800,[17] and a sermon by Agobard of Lyons (810).[18]
King Kálmán (Coloman) of Hungary, in Decree 57 of his First Legislative Book (published in 1100 AD), banned witch hunting because he said, "witches do not exist".[19] The "Decretum" of Burchard, Bishop of Worms (about 1020), and especially its 19th book, often known separately as the "Corrector", is another work of great importance. Burchard was writing against the superstitious belief in magical potions, for instance, that may produce impotence or abortion. These were also condemned by several Church Fathers.[20] But he altogether rejected the possibility of many of the alleged powers with which witches were popularly credited. Such, for example, were nocturnal riding through the air, the changing of a person's disposition from love to hate, the control of thunder, rain, and sunshine, the transformation of a man into an animal, the intercourse of incubi and succubi with human beings and other such superstitions. Not only the attempt to practice such things, but the very belief in their possibility, is treated by Burchard as false and superstitious.
Pope Gregory VII, in 1080, wrote to King Harald III of Denmark forbidding witches to be put to death upon presumption of their having caused storms or failure of crops or pestilence. Neither were these the only examples of an effort to prevent unjust suspicion to which such poor creatures might be exposed.[note 1]
On many different occasions, ecclesiastics who spoke with authority did their best to disabuse the people of their superstitious belief in witchcraft. This, for instance, is the general purport of the book, Contra insulsam vulgi opinionem de grandine et tonitruis ("Against the foolish belief of the common sort concerning hail and thunder"), written by Agobard (d. 841), Archbishop of Lyons.[21] A comparable situation in Russia is suggested in a sermon by Serapion of Vladimir (written in 1274/5), where the popular superstition of witches causing crop failures is denounced.[22]’’


http://www.pctii.org/cyberj/cyberj10/onyinah.html
‘As was done in the past, protection from witchcraft activities has become a common concern.* Formerly such protection was sought from the priests of the gods or from sorcerers and medicine men.* From the early part of the twentieth century, however, a variety of exorcistic activities (anti-witchcraft shrine) have dominated African states.* Even when the colonial regimes suppressed witchcraft activities because they thought they hampered progress, they re-emerged within the Ingenious African Churches and later in a form of movement within the classical Pentecostal churches.[if !supportFootnotes][13][endif]* As soon as one of these movements expends itself, another of a similar nature springs up with a larger following.** As a result, at present, almost all churches include exorcistic activities, referred to as ‘deliverance’[if !supportFootnotes][14][endif] in their programmes, since failure to do so amounts to losing members to churches that include such activities.* Thus some scholars now observe the ‘Pentecostalisation’ of Christianity in Africa.[if !supportFootnotes][15][endif]’
*
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