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Old 12th October 2014, 05:45 PM   #41
Craig B
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
Angle of Repose is a concept that is learned by every kid in a sandbox. The Egyptians, though, went all out and learned it with the Bent Pyramid of Sneferu.
They got a sharp lesson at Meidum
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When the pyramid was complete it is estimated its proportions were similar to those of the Great Pyramid but it is likely that the pyramid began to crumble during the reign of Sneferu and that this may have contributed to his decision to alter the angle of his pyramid at Dashur in mid construction. There is some evidence that the pyramid was built within the first fifteen years of his reign and then abandoned Meidum for Dashur. It is tempting to see this pyramid as a practice run for his later, better constructed, pyramids at Dashur.
It is even more tempting to see it as a disaster occasioned by inexperience. So much for wise aliens building these things. http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/pyramid-meidum.html
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Old 12th October 2014, 06:41 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
That's why the civilization fell: No manuals.

On a serious note, one should not underestimate what can be accomplished just by intelligence and a lot of sweat, no machinery needed. Not to mention that in the case of pyramids, we can see a smooth and logical transition through time as they immproved techniques, from mounds to step pyramids to oddly-sloped pyramids to the Great Pyramids. It's not as if they just woke up one morning and started building them perfectly.
There are several ways to build a pyramid. Its not like it was written in stone.
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Old 12th October 2014, 08:56 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
They got a sharp lesson at Meidum It is even more tempting to see it as a disaster occasioned by inexperience. So much for wise aliens building these things. http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/pyramid-meidum.html
Even aliens have a learning curve.
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Old 12th October 2014, 09:25 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
There are several ways to build a pyramid. Its not like it was written in stone.
Agreed, however I think the poster is referring the evolution of technology we can see, rather than the site specific techniques that were used
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Old 12th October 2014, 09:26 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
There are several ways to build a pyramid. Its not like it was written in stone.
I see what you did there.
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Old 13th October 2014, 03:35 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
LOL - I could not find it through Google but I am sure the Khufu pyramid has an inscription near the top that literally translates to "This stone placed by Khufu's drunken gang"
"Drunkards of Menkaure".

Pulled from somewhere in here.
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Old 13th October 2014, 04:15 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
There are several ways to build a pyramid. Its not like it was written in stone.
Somethings would be deliberately not written down. This is a problem that has spawn all these CTidiots.
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Old 13th October 2014, 06:01 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
"Drunkards of Menkaure".

Pulled from somewhere in here.
Ah thank you very much for that!
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Old 13th October 2014, 08:22 AM   #49
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May I just mention that if anyone finds themselves running out of theories of how and why the pyramids were built, they can drop into the mysteries board of the Graham Hancock forum where they will find plenty more.
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Old 13th October 2014, 08:34 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Somethings would be deliberately not written down. This is a problem that has spawn all these CTidiots.
Another useful expression, coined back in the nineteenth century, is "Pyramidiots" referring the the exponents of far-fetched or fanciful theories about these constructions. One of the originators of this school of thought is named as no less than the Astronomer Royal for Scotland
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Charles Piazzi Smyth, F.R.S.E., F.R.A.S., who made numerous numerological calculations on the pyramid and published them in a 664-page book Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid (1864) followed by Life, and Work in the Great Pyramid (1867). These two works fused pyramidology with British Israelism and Smyth first linked the hypothetical pyramid inch to the British metric system.
He had a thing about inches being better than centimetres, and created an imaginary "pyramid inch" in which units he measured various objects within the pyramid, deriving all manner of prophetic messages in this strange way. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramidology for more, if you can bear it.
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Old 13th October 2014, 08:47 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
You're assuming people are reluctant to do these things. Humans are innately tribal, and monumental structures - literally awesome - enhance the self-esteem of most of the tribe's members. The Pyramids, Stonehenge, the great cathedrals of Europe, the Moon Landing, these are all triumphal statements of an entire society.
It's a crying shame that the last monumental human achievement was to land people on the moon. We desperately need more self esteem building mega things and less celebrity gossip. I hope I live to see the day we put a manned base on Mars.

I think maybe future humans will look back at the creation of the internet and the much improved pace that knowledge and ideas can be shared as a monumental thing. It's hard to tell atm.

The thing that most amazes me about the pyramids is not that they were built, it's that they are much more complicated than piles of rocks and are very well engineered. I wonder how many our our buildings will still be standing in 7000 AD.
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Old 13th October 2014, 08:53 AM   #52
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t's a crying shame that the last monumental human achievement was to land people on the moon.
I'm pretty excited by the monumental architecture we call the Interstate freeway system, with multilevel overpasses and thousands of miles of smooth paths and high speed curves through any terrain. We take them for granted but take a good look at one sometime and try to see it from the perspective of the ancient builders.
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Old 13th October 2014, 09:30 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Twenty logs, a large plank, the architecturally easiest structure to build, and a huge workforce - I don't see the mystery.
No logs necessary, by the way. The latest idea is that they used wet sand. Pretty cool theory.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...rn-technology/
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Old 13th October 2014, 09:39 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
No logs necessary, by the way. The latest idea is that they used wet sand. Pretty cool theory.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...rn-technology/
Ah, so the aliens pee'd on the sand?
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Old 13th October 2014, 09:52 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Ah, so the aliens pee'd on the sand?
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Old 13th October 2014, 09:57 AM   #56
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:salute:
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Old 13th October 2014, 12:11 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
The thing that most amazes me about the pyramids is not that they were built, it's that they are much more complicated than piles of rocks and are very well engineered. I wonder how many our our buildings will still be standing in 7000 AD.
But be aware very few pyramids have survived in any recognizable form.
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Old 13th October 2014, 02:56 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
But be aware very few pyramids have survived in any recognizable form.
And as stated upthread they're already the shape of buildings that have fallen down. . .
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Old 13th October 2014, 04:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Ah, so the aliens pee'd on the sand?
After all that beer they made a virtue out of necessity.
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Old 13th October 2014, 05:19 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
After all that beer they made a virtue out of necessity.
Menkaure had it all figured out.

He must have been an alien.
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Old 13th October 2014, 05:23 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
It's a crying shame that the last monumental human achievement was to land people on the moon. We desperately need more self esteem building mega things and less celebrity gossip. I hope I live to see the day we put a manned base on Mars.
I should live so long, if only for the sake of it.

The Pyramids and Moon Landing were triumphal gestures, but there's precious little sense of triumph in the world now. Even China is choking in its own excreta. The US was at the top of their game in the 60's, the white part of it anyway (it was, after all, Whitey on the Moon.)

Quote:
I think maybe future humans will look back at the creation of the internet and the much improved pace that knowledge and ideas can be shared as a monumental thing. It's hard to tell atm.
In qualitative terms it's the same as radio, printing, all the way back to literacy itself. (In scale, well, we just keep cranking that up.) All of them have subverted societies and orthodoxies until laws and norms were established to accomodate and to some extent control them. I'm sure it'll be the same this time.

One rule won't change - the bigger the pipe the more crap comes down it.

Quote:
The thing that most amazes me about the pyramids is not that they were built, it's that they are much more complicated than piles of rocks and are very well engineered. I wonder how many our our buildings will still be standing in 7000 AD.
Memories are stirring of a Deep Time project that's addressing that. I must look it up sometime - but no rush, eh?
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Old 13th October 2014, 05:28 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Menkaure had it all figured out.

He must have been an alien.
Surely 'tis a gift from the heavens.
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Old 13th October 2014, 05:37 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
I'm pretty excited by the monumental architecture we call the Interstate freeway system, with multilevel overpasses and thousands of miles of smooth paths and high speed curves through any terrain. We take them for granted but take a good look at one sometime and try to see it from the perspective of the ancient builders.
I have a particular admiration for the UK's Victorian canal system, which was an epic undertaking. In the end, though, these were things of business - not display.

For a beery holiday nothing beats a narrow-boat on the canal with like-minded friends. My theory, which is mine, is that the navvies dug in straight lines directly from one pub to the next, an arrangement greatly to be desired.
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Old 5th January 2021, 05:55 PM   #64
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Sorry to resurrect and old thread but this guy has an interesting take on the Great Pyramid.
He explains the Queen's Chamber, and the air shafts. I don't know enough about the pyramid to know if his hypothesis is solid, but it's interesting.

https://youtu.be/gBpUU5uqIi8
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Old 5th January 2021, 06:24 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
Also, beer.
And interestingly enough, onions!

Not exactly sure why beer and onions were such a big thing in ancient Egypt, but apparently they were.

As for the OP, Yes there was ancient tech that was lost. You can see that quite clearly in the archaeology. For example older highly polished stones like granite used by later kingdoms with new more crude stonework and inscriptions added hundreds of years later. Tool marks by sophisticated machinery (relatively) found in earlier sites, but later works all seemingly made by hand tools.

However, this doesn't mean the earlier "lost" technology was anything like our modern tech. Probably closer to the Romans in tech. Still it is impressive given the age of the pyramids.

Oh and it is no secret that Egypt went through a few collapses. One in particular was quite severe and lasted 300? years? If I recall correctly. So any gaps like that are easily explained without invoking wooish conspiracy theories or aliens.

You have to pay close attention to programs like that on you tube or the History channel (a joke to call that channel real history) They like to show evidence, then make a claim, but often leave off important details. Like a mystery older higher tech civilization.......leaving off how much older, how much higher tech, how big a mystery? Are there rational hypotheses available? Or is it a total mystery? And if even a total mystery, does it in any way support the programs claim? Lots of posters here have noted that there are a number of programs out there about ancient egypt using this logic fallacy: "We are not sure how they did such and such, so it must be aliens!" hahahaha All this guy did was change "aliens" to "previous high tech lost civilization". but the logic is still fail.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:53 AM   #66
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I just got a comment on one of my answers on Quora... Taking me to task for my “limited” scientific viewpoint. The fellow repeated the claim that “Vedic Science” knew about advanced astronomy and physics.... 150,000 years ago.

Such beliefs are still pretty common, to judge from some of the questions we get on Quora... Persisten ones about now-vanished ancient high-tech civilizations.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:47 PM   #67
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It would seem clear that Egyptian wall reliefs explain the methods used to build the pyramids, being used on other monuments.

I don't think it is that big a mystery.
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Old 8th January 2021, 10:54 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
It would seem clear that Egyptian wall reliefs explain the methods used to build the pyramids, being used on other monuments.

I don't think it is that big a mystery.
They used genetically engineered human-centipede hybrids developed with technology given to them from 50-foot tall visiting aliens with hoverboards! It's so clear now!
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Old 11th January 2021, 02:56 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Sorry to resurrect and old thread but this guy has an interesting take on the Great Pyramid.
He explains the Queen's Chamber, and the air shafts. I don't know enough about the pyramid to know if his hypothesis is solid, but it's interesting.

https://youtu.be/gBpUU5uqIi8
Could you hit the high points, so I don't have to spend 1.5 hours for 15 seconds of information..
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Old 11th January 2021, 04:04 PM   #70
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When I visited Egypt in 2011 the explanation we were given of how the construction was very probably achieved seemed perfectly reasonable and I'm really not aware of any great mystery.
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Old 11th January 2021, 04:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Could you hit the high points, so I don't have to spend 1.5 hours for 15 seconds of information..
I watched it while cleaning house, so wasn't paying real close attention. However, the first part of the vid is a very long winded criticism of much of the woo and unsupported ideas out there. (including some of his own earlier ideas which he now thinks are equally wrong)

His new premise is fairly close to the standard understanding. The pyramid is a burial chamber. The air shafts are symbolic passages to allow the resurrected body into the after life. One to let the "spiritual waters" into the chambers, and one out. But he contends the queens chamber and the kings chamber were never meant to hold any real water or gasses, all symbolic.

He then contends the reason for the 1st (subterranean chamber) and 2nd (queens chamber) was to make sure there was a "functional" burial chamber in case the Pharaoh died before the 3rd (kings chamber) was finished.

He also contends the original plan was to build a smaller but still large pyramid with the queens chamber being the final burial place; and that pyramid was either completed, or so close as to have started most the outer finishing stones, Then it was decided that they could make it even bigger, so the shafts were sealed and they expanded it even larger.

He goes into great long winded detail about the evidence for this new hypothesis, including observation of a change in stonework that ostensibly would have been the original outer surface of the pyramid before expansion.

I am only mildly interested in Egyptology. So I have no way to rate the quality of his research. But there are no aliens or weird futuristic forgotten technology claims made. Just a powerful Pharaoh that lived longer than expected, and thus had time to order the building of a larger than expected tomb for himself.
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Old 11th January 2021, 05:34 PM   #72
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Thanks for the info!
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