Clever Monkeys

arthwollipot · 13th January 2021, 08:50 PM

Nice phone: Bali’s thieving monkeys can spot high-value items to ransom

Quote:

Study finds macaques go for tourists’ electronics and wallets over empty bags and then maximise their profit

At the Uluwatu temple in Bali, monkeys mean business. The long-tailed macaques who roam the ancient site are infamous for brazenly robbing unsuspecting tourists and clinging on to their possessions until food is offered as ransom payment.

Researchers have found they are also skilled at judging which items their victims value the most and using this information to maximise their profit.

Shrewd macaques prefer to target items that humans are most likely to exchange for food, such as electronics, rather than objects that tourists care less about, such as hairpins or empty camera bags, said Dr Jean-Baptiste Leca, an associate professor in the psychology department at the University of Lethbridge in Canada and lead author of the study.

...

After spending more than 273 days filming interactions between the animals and temple visitors, researchers found that the macaques would demand better rewards – such as more food – for higher-valued items.

Bargaining between a monkey robber, tourist and a temple staff member quite often lasted several minutes. The longest wait before an item was returned was 25 minutes, including 17 minutes of negotiation. For lower-valued items, the monkeys were more likely to conclude successful bartering sessions by accepting a lesser reward.

This seems to me to be quite sophisticated behaviour. Not being very good at searching such things I was unable to find the paper this article cites, even searching the lead author's name in Google Scholar. Can anyone do better than me?

RecoveringYuppy · 13th January 2021, 09:08 PM

This link work?

https://scholar.google.com/citations...C%26tzom%3D420

Social influence on the expression of robbing and bartering behaviours in Balinese long-tailed macaques

Authors
Fany Brotcorne, Anna Holzner, Lucía Jorge-Sales, Noëlle Gunst, Alain Hambuckers, I Nengah Wandia, Jean-Baptiste Leca

arthwollipot · 13th January 2021, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

This link work?

https://scholar.google.com/citations...C%26tzom%3D420

Social influence on the expression of robbing and bartering behaviours in Balinese long-tailed macaques

Authors
Fany Brotcorne, Anna Holzner, Lucía Jorge-Sales, Noëlle Gunst, Alain Hambuckers, I Nengah Wandia, Jean-Baptiste Leca

Yes it does. Thanks. It's behind a paywall, but I can read the abstract at least.

ETA: It doesn't appear to be the same article. This describes the social influence on the RB behaviour, but the abstract doesn't mention the value of the stolen items. Is this perhaps a case of a journalist noticing a minor point in the paper, that the paper wasn't actually about, and publishing as though it is the most important point?

RecoveringYuppy · 13th January 2021, 09:18 PM

This might be interesting too:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rstb.2019.0677

arthwollipot · 13th January 2021, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

This might be interesting too:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rstb.2019.0677

This one goes into the value-based bartering more. I think this may be the one cited by the Guardian.

But the value-based bartering was "Prediction 2b" in the paper. There was a lot more to it than that. This is definitely cherry-picking by the paper.

ETA: take that back. It was the basis of the conclusion.

arthwollipot · 13th January 2021, 09:32 PM

Here's the Conclusion:

Quote:

Token-robbing and token/reward-bartering are cognitively challenging tasks for the Uluwatu macaques that revealed unprecedented economic decision-making processes (i.e. valued-based token selection and payoff maximization) in a large monkey population living in an anthropogenically impacted habitat. This spontaneous, population-specific, prevalent, cross-generational, learned and socially influenced practice may be the first example of a culturally maintained token economy in free-ranging animals. The present naturalistic research setting represents a unique opportunity to study field economics and explore macroeconomic phenomena in non-human primates in environmental conditions that are more externally and ecologically valid than those provided by the traditional token exchange paradigm. Further experimental research on the Uluwatu macaques should make future cross-species comparisons of economic decision-making and symbolic tool use more relevant from an evolutionary perspective and may ultimately lead to a better understanding of the origins of autonomous monetary systems in humans [29].

Fascinating.

Skeptic Ginger · 13th January 2021, 11:25 PM

This is incredible!

It might be to be an adaptation after the lockdowns everywhere meant their tourist feeding them dried up, except it looks like it started years before.

ETA: it's easy to see how this evolved. Macaque steals tourist item, tourist tries to lure them back with food.

Jim_MDP · 14th January 2021, 01:34 AM

I'm skeptical just because it's so tempting to believe at face value (the paper).
But they've got 5-6 months to get some more data. "Cheeky monkeys" eh? Good on them.
What I do know when we return, regarding the many once populated "wild animal attraction" plazas etc. ... we're ******.

Minoosh · 14th January 2021, 01:47 AM

So what is their preferred high-valued food payment? In case you really need your phone back fast ...

Jim_MDP · 14th January 2021, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

So what is their preferred high-valued food payment? In case you really need your phone back fast ...

I suspect "bananas"... is a trap.

Hell, what do ya got? Huh?
What's in the bag?
Hey! Don't run away!
What's in the purse? WHAT'S IN THE PURSE???

William Parcher · 14th January 2021, 08:24 AM

The clever monkeys steal the food. Stealing valuable objects is useless for a tourist that has no food to give.

theprestige · 14th January 2021, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Nice phone: Bali’s thieving monkeys can spot high-value items to ransom

This seems to me to be quite sophisticated behaviour. Not being very good at searching such things I was unable to find the paper this article cites, even searching the lead author's name in Google Scholar. Can anyone do better than me?

Trial and error plus tradition equal sophistication.

arthwollipot · 14th January 2021, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

The clever monkeys steal the food. Stealing valuable objects is useless for a tourist that has no food to give.

It appears that the temple staff have the food.

Gord_in_Toronto · 15th January 2021, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

It appears that the temple staff have the food.

So it's a monkey-human conspiracy?

catsmate · 16th January 2021, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

This is incredible!

It might be to be an adaptation after the lockdowns everywhere meant their tourist feeding them dried up, except it looks like it started years before.

ETA: it's easy to see how this evolved. Macaque steals tourist item, tourist tries to lure them back with food.

Some years ago the park in Merrion Square in Dublin had a squirre, a grey with a white patch on his tail, quite distinctive, who learned to pose for tourist photos.
He'd perch on a large chunk of granite, near the Wilde statue, and stand still there in exchange for food.

Skeptical Greg · 17th January 2021, 04:34 PM

I like that better..

Squirrels are cuter than macaques..

Planigale · 21st January 2021, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

I like that better..

Squirrels are cuter than macaques..

But carry leprosy!

https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/could-squi...prosy-outbreak

arthwollipot · 21st January 2021, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Planigale

But carry leprosy!

https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/could-squi...prosy-outbreak

I remember on my first trip to the US, my hosts took me to La Brea Tarpits and I saw my first squirrel. I approached to take a photo and hcmom said "careful, it might have rabies".

You can bet I stopped in my tracks.

RecoveringYuppy · 21st January 2021, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I remember on my first trip to the US, my hosts took me to La Brea Tarpits and I saw my first squirrel. I approached to take a photo and hcmom said "careful, it might have rabies".

You can bet I stopped in my tracks.

I don't think a human has ever gotten rabies from a squirrel and squirrels themselves hardly every acquire it.

arthwollipot · 21st January 2021, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

I don't think a human has ever gotten rabies from a squirrel and squirrels themselves hardly every acquire it.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it was mostly a joke, but you can damn well bet I stopped in my tracks.

steenkh · 21st January 2021, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

I don't think a human has ever gotten rabies from a squirrel and squirrels themselves hardly every acquire it.

When I was in New York for the first time, I was also hand feeding the squirrels in Central Park, but the locals warned us of rabies. It seems to be a persistent claim.

RecoveringYuppy · 21st January 2021, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by steenkh

When I was in New York for the first time, I was also hand feeding the squirrels in Central Park, but the locals warned us of rabies. It seems to be a persistent claim.

Just to make sure I have my fact straight:

https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/exposure/animals/other.html

Quote:

Small rodents like squirrels, hamsters, guinea pigs, gerbils, chipmunks, rats, and mice) and lagomorphs including rabbits and hares are almost never found to be infected with rabies and have not been known to transmit rabies to humans.

arthwollipot · 21st January 2021, 04:31 PM

Good to know. Through strict quarantine procedures, we have managed not to have rabies in Australia. We do have a bat lyssavirus, which is related, but no actual rabies.

Chanakya · 22nd January 2021, 07:19 AM

This thread reminded me of that old Buddhist story about the monkey trap.

When I first heard that story, it sounded to me like a made-up story -- although I don't know that, and it could be true for all I know.

Jim_MDP · 22nd January 2021, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Planigale

But carry leprosy!

https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/could-squi...prosy-outbreak

I thought that was just armadillolololos.

RecoveringYuppy · 22nd January 2021, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Chanakya

This thread reminded me of that old Buddhist story about the monkey trap.

When I first heard that story, it sounded to me like a made-up story -- although I don't know that, and it could be true for all I know.

Finally, something that might bring the Mythbusters back.

novaphile · 22nd January 2021, 10:44 PM

Apologies if I've shared it before, but I was robbed by a squirrel gang once...

Outside the Admiralty museum in London, I stopped because a squirrel had scampered across the park, stopped in front of me and started pawing at the air, while standing on its back legs...

I crouched down to see what it was doing, and there was a sudden commotion in my pocket. Before I'd realised what was happening, the pair of squirrels had raced across the park and scampered up a tree with my bag of trail mix.

Cheeky little grey bastards.

There were a lot of squirrels scampering around that park, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have been the only person that was robbed in this fashion.

Planigale · 23rd January 2021, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by novaphile

Apologies if I've shared it before, but I was robbed by a squirrel gang once...

Outside the Admiralty museum in London, I stopped because a squirrel had scampered across the park, stopped in front of me and started pawing at the air, while standing on its back legs...

I crouched down to see what it was doing, and there was a sudden commotion in my pocket. Before I'd realised what was happening, the pair of squirrels had raced across the park and scampered up a tree with my bag of trail mix.

Cheeky little grey bastards.

There were a lot of squirrels scampering around that park, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have been the only person that was robbed in this fashion.

Pretty sure no one has ever been mugged by a koala, of course grey squirrels are all immigrants that is why Brexit was essential!

(Except of course the thieving immigrant grey squirrels pushing the law abiding if lepromatous native British red squirrel out of hearth and home (or at least tree and drey) are American immigrants. Nothing to do with Brexit, but we are obliged to mention Brexit in all threads.)

Of course they have nothing on Kea for criminality.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...h-thieving-kea

rjh01 · 23rd January 2021, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Planigale

Pretty sure no one has ever been mugged by a koala, of course grey squirrels are all immigrants that is why Brexit was essential!
<snip>

You must never have heard about the drop bears in Australia. They need to be avoided. Here is a YouTube explaining the dangers to migrents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kev9VNGCLdc

The Greater Fool · 23rd January 2021, 02:14 PM

Imagine my surprise as a youth seeing signs posted in the Angeles and Sierra National forests (CA, USA) warning of Bubonic plague. They are still there.

Basically "Stay away from the cute creatures..."

dann · 28th January 2021, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

This is incredible!

It might be to be an adaptation after the lockdowns everywhere meant their tourist feeding them dried up, except it looks like it started years before.

ETA: it's easy to see how this evolved. Macaque steals tourist item, tourist tries to lure them back with food.

... and the macaque prefers food, can't carry both, so it leaves the 'stolen' item.

DevilsAdvocate · 28th January 2021, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Chanakya

This thread reminded me of that old Buddhist story about the monkey trap.

When I first heard that story, it sounded to me like a made-up story -- although I don't know that, and it could be true for all I know.

As I kid I heard the same story about trapping racoons.

dann · 28th January 2021, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Some years ago the park in Merrion Square in Dublin had a squirre, a grey with a white patch on his tail, quite distinctive, who learned to pose for tourist photos.
He'd perch on a large chunk of granite, near the Wilde statue, and stand still there in exchange for food.

Some squirrels seem to have something akin to 'punishment for breach of contract'.
30 years ago or so, if you squatted beneath a certain tree in my local park with nuts in your hand, squirrels would come down and pick them out of your hand. I wanted to demonstrate that to a friend of mine, but had forgotten to bring nuts, so I squatted beneath the tree, pretending to have food. Soon a squirrel came down, looked at my empty hand, grabbed hold of my middle finger, bit it (not hard) and fled back up the tree again.
Never got rabies!

Skeptic Ginger · 28th January 2021, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by The Greater Fool

Imagine my surprise as a youth seeing signs posted in the Angeles and Sierra National forests (CA, USA) warning of Bubonic plague. They are still there.

Basically "Stay away from the cute creatures..."

Stay away from ground squirrels and jack rabbits. They have infected fleas. I saw a case in a human when I lived in Colorado.

13th January 2021, 08:50 PM	#1
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Clever Monkeys Nice phone: Bali’s thieving monkeys can spot high-value items to ransom Quote: Study finds macaques go for tourists’ electronics and wallets over empty bags and then maximise their profit At the Uluwatu temple in Bali, monkeys mean business. The long-tailed macaques who roam the ancient site are infamous for brazenly robbing unsuspecting tourists and clinging on to their possessions until food is offered as ransom payment. Researchers have found they are also skilled at judging which items their victims value the most and using this information to maximise their profit. Shrewd macaques prefer to target items that humans are most likely to exchange for food, such as electronics, rather than objects that tourists care less about, such as hairpins or empty camera bags, said Dr Jean-Baptiste Leca, an associate professor in the psychology department at the University of Lethbridge in Canada and lead author of the study. ... After spending more than 273 days filming interactions between the animals and temple visitors, researchers found that the macaques would demand better rewards – such as more food – for higher-valued items. Bargaining between a monkey robber, tourist and a temple staff member quite often lasted several minutes. The longest wait before an item was returned was 25 minutes, including 17 minutes of negotiation. For lower-valued items, the monkeys were more likely to conclude successful bartering sessions by accepting a lesser reward. This seems to me to be quite sophisticated behaviour. Not being very good at searching such things I was unable to find the paper this article cites, even searching the lead author's name in Google Scholar. Can anyone do better than me?
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

13th January 2021, 09:15 PM	#3
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy This link work? https://scholar.google.com/citations...C%26tzom%3D420 Social influence on the expression of robbing and bartering behaviours in Balinese long-tailed macaques Authors Fany Brotcorne, Anna Holzner, Lucía Jorge-Sales, Noëlle Gunst, Alain Hambuckers, I Nengah Wandia, Jean-Baptiste Leca Yes it does. Thanks. It's behind a paywall, but I can read the abstract at least. ETA: It doesn't appear to be the same article. This describes the social influence on the RB behaviour, but the abstract doesn't mention the value of the stolen items. Is this perhaps a case of a journalist noticing a minor point in the paper, that the paper wasn't actually about, and publishing as though it is the most important point?
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart. Last edited by arthwollipot; 13th January 2021 at 09:17 PM.

13th January 2021, 09:18 PM	#4
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,724	This might be interesting too: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rstb.2019.0677
	Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 13th January 2021 at 09:20 PM.

13th January 2021, 09:30 PM	#5
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy This might be interesting too: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rstb.2019.0677 This one goes into the value-based bartering more. I think this may be the one cited by the Guardian. But the value-based bartering was "Prediction 2b" in the paper. There was a lot more to it than that. This is definitely cherry-picking by the paper. ETA: take that back. It was the basis of the conclusion.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart. Last edited by arthwollipot; 13th January 2021 at 09:34 PM.

13th January 2021, 09:32 PM	#6
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Here's the Conclusion: Quote: Token-robbing and token/reward-bartering are cognitively challenging tasks for the Uluwatu macaques that revealed unprecedented economic decision-making processes (i.e. valued-based token selection and payoff maximization) in a large monkey population living in an anthropogenically impacted habitat. This spontaneous, population-specific, prevalent, cross-generational, learned and socially influenced practice may be the first example of a culturally maintained token economy in free-ranging animals. The present naturalistic research setting represents a unique opportunity to study field economics and explore macroeconomic phenomena in non-human primates in environmental conditions that are more externally and ecologically valid than those provided by the traditional token exchange paradigm. Further experimental research on the Uluwatu macaques should make future cross-species comparisons of economic decision-making and symbolic tool use more relevant from an evolutionary perspective and may ultimately lead to a better understanding of the origins of autonomous monetary systems in humans [29]. Fascinating.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

13th January 2021, 09:08 PM	#2
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,724	This link work? https://scholar.google.com/citations...C%26tzom%3D420 Social influence on the expression of robbing and bartering behaviours in Balinese long-tailed macaques Authors Fany Brotcorne, Anna Holzner, Lucía Jorge-Sales, Noëlle Gunst, Alain Hambuckers, I Nengah Wandia, Jean-Baptiste Leca

13th January 2021, 11:25 PM	#7
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,870	This is incredible! It might be to be an adaptation after the lockdowns everywhere meant their tourist feeding them dried up, except it looks like it started years before. ETA: it's easy to see how this evolved. Macaque steals tourist item, tourist tries to lure them back with food.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 14th January 2021 at 12:03 AM.

14th January 2021, 01:34 AM	#8
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,012	I'm skeptical just because it's so tempting to believe at face value (the paper). But they've got 5-6 months to get some more data. "Cheeky monkeys" eh? Good on them. What I do know when we return, regarding the many once populated "wild animal attraction" plazas etc. ... we're ******.
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

14th January 2021, 01:47 AM	#9
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,238	So what is their preferred high-valued food payment? In case you really need your phone back fast ...

14th January 2021, 01:53 AM	#10
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Minoosh So what is their preferred high-valued food payment? In case you really need your phone back fast ... I suspect "bananas"... is a trap. Hell, what do ya got? Huh? What's in the bag? Hey! Don't run away! What's in the purse? WHAT'S IN THE PURSE???
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

14th January 2021, 08:24 AM	#11
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,760	The clever monkeys steal the food. Stealing valuable objects is useless for a tourist that has no food to give.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

14th January 2021, 08:26 AM	#12
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,584	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Nice phone: Bali’s thieving monkeys can spot high-value items to ransom This seems to me to be quite sophisticated behaviour. Not being very good at searching such things I was unable to find the paper this article cites, even searching the lead author's name in Google Scholar. Can anyone do better than me? Trial and error plus tradition equal sophistication.

14th January 2021, 06:03 PM	#13
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Originally Posted by William Parcher The clever monkeys steal the food. Stealing valuable objects is useless for a tourist that has no food to give. It appears that the temple staff have the food.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

15th January 2021, 10:41 AM	#14
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,402	Originally Posted by arthwollipot It appears that the temple staff have the food. So it's a monkey-human conspiracy?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

16th January 2021, 04:46 AM	#15
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,834	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger This is incredible! It might be to be an adaptation after the lockdowns everywhere meant their tourist feeding them dried up, except it looks like it started years before. ETA: it's easy to see how this evolved. Macaque steals tourist item, tourist tries to lure them back with food. Some years ago the park in Merrion Square in Dublin had a squirre, a grey with a white patch on his tail, quite distinctive, who learned to pose for tourist photos. He'd perch on a large chunk of granite, near the Wilde statue, and stand still there in exchange for food.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

17th January 2021, 04:34 PM	#16
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' . Posts: 16,921	I like that better.. Squirrels are cuter than macaques..
	__________________ " The main problem I have with the idea of heaven, is the thought of spending eternity with most of the people who claim to be going there. "

21st January 2021, 11:59 AM	#17
Planigale Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 4,639	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg I like that better.. Squirrels are cuter than macaques.. But carry leprosy! https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/could-squi...prosy-outbreak

21st January 2021, 02:45 PM	#18
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Originally Posted by Planigale But carry leprosy! https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/could-squi...prosy-outbreak I remember on my first trip to the US, my hosts took me to La Brea Tarpits and I saw my first squirrel. I approached to take a photo and hcmom said "careful, it might have rabies". You can bet I stopped in my tracks.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

21st January 2021, 02:57 PM	#19
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,724	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I remember on my first trip to the US, my hosts took me to La Brea Tarpits and I saw my first squirrel. I approached to take a photo and hcmom said "careful, it might have rabies". You can bet I stopped in my tracks. I don't think a human has ever gotten rabies from a squirrel and squirrels themselves hardly every acquire it.

21st January 2021, 02:58 PM	#20
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy I don't think a human has ever gotten rabies from a squirrel and squirrels themselves hardly every acquire it. Yeah I'm pretty sure it was mostly a joke, but you can damn well bet I stopped in my tracks.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

21st January 2021, 03:49 PM	#21
steenkh Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 6,141	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy I don't think a human has ever gotten rabies from a squirrel and squirrels themselves hardly every acquire it. When I was in New York for the first time, I was also hand feeding the squirrels in Central Park, but the locals warned us of rabies. It seems to be a persistent claim.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

21st January 2021, 04:18 PM	#22
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,724	Originally Posted by steenkh When I was in New York for the first time, I was also hand feeding the squirrels in Central Park, but the locals warned us of rabies. It seems to be a persistent claim. Just to make sure I have my fact straight: https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/exposure/animals/other.html Quote: Small rodents like squirrels, hamsters, guinea pigs, gerbils, chipmunks, rats, and mice) and lagomorphs including rabbits and hares are almost never found to be infected with rabies and have not been known to transmit rabies to humans.

21st January 2021, 04:31 PM	#23
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,272	Good to know. Through strict quarantine procedures, we have managed not to have rabies in Australia. We do have a bat lyssavirus, which is related, but no actual rabies.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

22nd January 2021, 07:19 AM	#24
Chanakya Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 2,598	This thread reminded me of that old Buddhist story about the monkey trap. When I first heard that story, it sounded to me like a made-up story -- although I don't know that, and it could be true for all I know.
Chanakya Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 2,598

22nd January 2021, 07:36 AM	#25
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Planigale But carry leprosy! https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/could-squi...prosy-outbreak I thought that was just armadillolololos.
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

22nd January 2021, 10:22 AM	#26
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,724	Originally Posted by Chanakya This thread reminded me of that old Buddhist story about the monkey trap. When I first heard that story, it sounded to me like a made-up story -- although I don't know that, and it could be true for all I know. Finally, something that might bring the Mythbusters back.

22nd January 2021, 10:44 PM	#27
novaphile Quester of Doglets Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 2,938	Apologies if I've shared it before, but I was robbed by a squirrel gang once... Outside the Admiralty museum in London, I stopped because a squirrel had scampered across the park, stopped in front of me and started pawing at the air, while standing on its back legs... I crouched down to see what it was doing, and there was a sudden commotion in my pocket. Before I'd realised what was happening, the pair of squirrels had raced across the park and scampered up a tree with my bag of trail mix. Cheeky little grey bastards. There were a lot of squirrels scampering around that park, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have been the only person that was robbed in this fashion.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

23rd January 2021, 12:47 PM	#28
Planigale Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 4,639	Originally Posted by novaphile Apologies if I've shared it before, but I was robbed by a squirrel gang once... Outside the Admiralty museum in London, I stopped because a squirrel had scampered across the park, stopped in front of me and started pawing at the air, while standing on its back legs... I crouched down to see what it was doing, and there was a sudden commotion in my pocket. Before I'd realised what was happening, the pair of squirrels had raced across the park and scampered up a tree with my bag of trail mix. Cheeky little grey bastards. There were a lot of squirrels scampering around that park, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have been the only person that was robbed in this fashion. Pretty sure no one has ever been mugged by a koala, of course grey squirrels are all immigrants that is why Brexit was essential! (Except of course the thieving immigrant grey squirrels pushing the law abiding if lepromatous native British red squirrel out of hearth and home (or at least tree and drey) are American immigrants. Nothing to do with Brexit, but we are obliged to mention Brexit in all threads.) Of course they have nothing on Kea for criminality. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...h-thieving-kea

23rd January 2021, 02:01 PM	#29
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,507	Originally Posted by Planigale Pretty sure no one has ever been mugged by a koala, of course grey squirrels are all immigrants that is why Brexit was essential! <snip> You must never have heard about the drop bears in Australia. They need to be avoided. Here is a YouTube explaining the dangers to migrents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kev9VNGCLdc
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23rd January 2021, 02:14 PM	#30
The Greater Fool Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Milky Way, Sol, Earth, Northern Hemisphere, USA, AZ, Scottsdale Posts: 4,324	Imagine my surprise as a youth seeing signs posted in the Angeles and Sierra National forests (CA, USA) warning of Bubonic plague. They are still there. Basically "Stay away from the cute creatures..."
	__________________ - "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Various; Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']

28th January 2021, 11:41 AM	#31
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,561	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger This is incredible! It might be to be an adaptation after the lockdowns everywhere meant their tourist feeding them dried up, except it looks like it started years before. ETA: it's easy to see how this evolved. Macaque steals tourist item, tourist tries to lure them back with food. ... and the macaque prefers food, can't carry both, so it leaves the 'stolen' item.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

28th January 2021, 11:50 AM	#32
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,448	Originally Posted by Chanakya This thread reminded me of that old Buddhist story about the monkey trap. When I first heard that story, it sounded to me like a made-up story -- although I don't know that, and it could be true for all I know. As I kid I heard the same story about trapping racoons.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

28th January 2021, 12:04 PM	#33
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,561	Originally Posted by catsmate Some years ago the park in Merrion Square in Dublin had a squirre, a grey with a white patch on his tail, quite distinctive, who learned to pose for tourist photos. He'd perch on a large chunk of granite, near the Wilde statue, and stand still there in exchange for food. Some squirrels seem to have something akin to 'punishment for breach of contract'. 30 years ago or so, if you squatted beneath a certain tree in my local park with nuts in your hand, squirrels would come down and pick them out of your hand. I wanted to demonstrate that to a friend of mine, but had forgotten to bring nuts, so I squatted beneath the tree, pretending to have food. Soon a squirrel came down, looked at my empty hand, grabbed hold of my middle finger, bit it (not hard) and fled back up the tree again. Never got rabies!
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

28th January 2021, 06:56 PM	#34
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,870	Originally Posted by The Greater Fool Imagine my surprise as a youth seeing signs posted in the Angeles and Sierra National forests (CA, USA) warning of Bubonic plague. They are still there. Basically "Stay away from the cute creatures..." Stay away from ground squirrels and jack rabbits. They have infected fleas. I saw a case in a human when I lived in Colorado.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 28th January 2021 at 06:57 PM.