Rhode Island to change it's formal name

Arcade22 · 25th June 2020, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Rhode Island governor Gina Raimondo has signed an executive order announcing the state would move forward with changing its official name due to its ties to American slavery.

The state’s official name, “The State of*Rhode Island*and Providence Plantations,” appears on state documents. But the order would shorten it to just “Rhode Island”.

...

Harold Metts, Rhode Island’s only Black state senator, introduced the 2020 bill. He said: “Whatever the meaning of the term ‘plantations’ in the context of Rhode Island’s history, it carries a horrific connotation when considering the [country’s] tragic and racist history.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vernor-slavery

Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery.

JoeMorgue · 25th June 2020, 07:37 AM

I'm just sooooooooooooo sure that "The number of people who will now be upset about this, will call it virtue signaling, and start hand wringing over which names we have to change next" will not vastly outnumber the number of people who know that "Rhode Island" wasn't the state's full official name a week ago.

3point14 · 25th June 2020, 07:38 AM

Here's the Woodland Trust talkiong about plantations.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/tre...s/plantations/

Darat · 25th June 2020, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vernor-slavery

Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery.

And gay can mean glad, carefree, wanton or homosexual.

What matters is how the word is actually used and understood today - not the words history. And I suggest in countries like Jamaica and the USA - to give 2 examples - the word is inextricably tied into slavery.

JoeMorgue · 25th June 2020, 07:47 AM

Outside of the "Commonwealth" term a few states use instead of "state" Rhode Island does seem to be the only state I can find firm reference to having a longer "official" name or any other weird variation on how they are named.

But this is like something I mentioned the previously, the "Well technically a group of (so and so animals) is called a..." problem.

"A group of (Animals) is called a..."

No. No it isn't. No group of specific animals is called an anything.

If you see a bunch of one type of animal you are going to refer to using the same dozen or so at most handful of specific generic terms; herd, flock, pack, school, swarm, etc.

Nobody ever casually and organically in real life human conversations refer to a shrewdness of apes or a shadow of jaguars or a parliament of owls or a conspiracy of lemurs.

These terms literally only exist inside trivia lists about what groups of animals are called. A few outlier cases; like say "a murder of crows" do occasionally pop up but that's only because the term itself is unique and/or bizarre enough to lend itself to puns and wordplay, I still wouldn't call that organic uses of the terms in their so called proper usage.

And it's not a case of these being the "technical" terms not used by laypeople. There are 649 articles containing the word "Ape" in the archives of the Etymology and Zoology Journal. The world "Shrewdness" doesn't appear once.

Same thing here. No "Rhode Island" is not technically known as anything other than Rhode Island if the other name only comes up in the topic about it having another name.

3point14 · 25th June 2020, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Outside of the "Commonwealth" term a few states use instead of "state" Rhode Island does seem to be the only state I can find firm reference to having a longer "official" name or any other weird variation on how they are named.

But this is like something I mentioned the previously, the "Well technically a group of (so and so animals) is called a..." problem.

"A group of (Animals) is called a..."

No. No it isn't. No group of specific animals is called an anything.

If you see a bunch of one type of animal you are going to refer to using the same dozen or so at most handful of specific generic terms; herd, flock, pack, school, swarm, etc.

Nobody ever casually and organically in real life human conversations refer to a shrewdness of apes or a shadow of jaguars or a parliament of owls or a conspiracy of lemurs.

These terms literally only exist inside trivia lists about what groups of animals are called. A few outlier cases; like say "a murder of crows" do occasionally pop up but that's only because the term itself is unique and/or bizarre enough to lend itself to puns and wordplay, I still wouldn't call that organic uses of the terms in their so called proper usage.

And it's not a case of these being the "technical" terms not used by laypeople. There are 649 articles containing the word "Ape" in the archives of the Etymology and Zoology Journal. The world "Shrewdness" doesn't appear once.

This is off topic, but I find this odd. Of course these are the names of groups of stuff. By the same power that dictates what every other word means - people agree that's that what they mean.

To pretend that it's not the case just because it's not 'official' in some way I find odd.

Meadmaker · 25th June 2020, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vernor-slavery

Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery.

My guess is the name change has been advocated for a long time, just because no one ever calls the state by that name. It's more one of those trivia questions, an historical curiosity that the smallest state has the longest name. In actual practice, it's always just "Rhode Island", which is kind of interesting because it isn't on an Island, and no one knows the origin of the name.

However, I do find it a bit irritating that the name change is prompted by people who don't understand the meaning of words, but figure there must be something wrong with it because elsewhere that word was used to mean something entirely different. "I don't understand what you said, but it sounds bad!" is an unfortunate way to shape public policy.

3point14 · 25th June 2020, 08:04 AM

It's niggardly all over again.

Big Bad Bob and Snoop attending get it:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

acbytesla · 25th June 2020, 08:09 AM

Yawn.

Personally I have a bigger issue with "Providence" than Plantation.

Armitage72 · 25th June 2020, 08:11 AM

It honestly sounds like something that might be dragged out by a Freeman On the Land. "This document says that I owe taxes to Rhode Island, but there's no such state. It's "The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations". Unless I get a document from them, I'm ignoring these demands."

Matthew Best · 25th June 2020, 08:14 AM

I have a bigger issue with the use of the apostrophe in "it's". It should be "its", although given the ignorance some people demonstrate I suppose it's not unexpected.

TragicMonkey · 25th June 2020, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

And gay can mean glad, carefree, wanton or homosexual.

What matters is how the word is actually used and understood today - not the words history. And I suggest in countries like Jamaica and the USA - to give 2 examples - the word is inextricably tied into slavery.

You've convinced me, Rhode Island shall be renamed to Gay Island.

d4m10n · 25th June 2020, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery.

Oddly enough, Rhode Island "played a leading role in the transatlantic slave trade."

https://www.brown.edu/Facilities/Joh...ibSlavery.html

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

shemp · 25th June 2020, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

You've convinced me, Rhode Island shall be renamed to Gay Island.

Rhodey McRhodeface

TragicMonkey · 25th June 2020, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

Rhodey McRhodeface

Too late, now that I've suggested it, not naming it Gay Island is homophobic.

shemp · 25th June 2020, 09:15 AM

It's not an island. A more accurate name would be "South Massachusetts." Also, there's already a Gay Island in Maine.

https://mapcarta.com/22275946

I would propose instead "Gay Underbelly of Massachusetts."

Jack by the hedge · 25th June 2020, 09:29 AM

Plantation in America has a deeply unfortunate nuance which isn't actually in its literal meaning, but it's what everyone calls to mind when you mention the word.

It's not all roses over the pond either as the plantation of Ulster in the early 1600s is the policy which parcelled out land there to British Protestants and led us eventually to the troubles of Northern Ireland.

TragicMonkey · 25th June 2020, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

It's not an island. A more accurate name would be "South Massachusetts." Also, there's already a Gay Island in Maine.

https://mapcarta.com/22275946

I would propose instead "Gay Underbelly of Massachusetts."

On my map all that's blank space with the words "Here be Yankees".

CORed · 25th June 2020, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm just sooooooooooooo sure that "The number of people who will now be upset about this, will call it virtue signaling, and start hand wringing over which names we have to change next" will not vastly outnumber the number of people who know that "Rhode Island" wasn't the state's full official name a week ago.

I actually did know that was the name, though had pretty well forgotten about it until I saw the post. I am firmly in the "don't give a **** either way" camp on this one.

ETA: On further consideration, count me in the "for" camp for reasons of brevity, and making the official name match what everyone calls the state anyway, as much as for whatever negative connotation the word "plantation" may have. I would guess that, never in the 300+ year history of the state and its predecessor colony, has anybody used its full name outside of official documents or speeches. It's a name the cries out to be shortened.

CORed · 25th June 2020, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

It's not an island. A more accurate name would be "South Massachusetts." Also, there's already a Gay Island in Maine.

https://mapcarta.com/22275946

I would propose instead "Gay Underbelly of Massachusetts."

IIRC, there is an actual Rhode Island somewhere of the coast that's the reason that "Rhode Island" is part of the former official name. Besides, it's not South Massachusetts; it's East Connecticut.

JoeMorgue · 25th June 2020, 10:31 AM

New England is one state. If you all have to share one Football team, you're one state.

Brainster · 25th June 2020, 10:34 AM

It was a Jeopardy final answer many years ago--what state had the longest name. They'll have to be sure to pull that episode from any streaming service.

CORed · 25th June 2020, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

It was a Jeopardy final answer many years ago--what state had the longest name. They'll have to be sure to pull that episode from any streaming service.

Smallest state, biggest name. It seems a certain symmetry has been lost.

Carrot Flower King · 25th June 2020, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

Plantation in America has a deeply unfortunate nuance which isn't actually in its literal meaning, but it's what everyone calls to mind when you mention the word.

It's not all roses over the pond either as the plantation of Ulster in the early 1600s is the policy which parcelled out land there to British Protestants and led us eventually to the troubles of Northern Ireland.

Yup: both the Strange Woman across the table and I have Lowland Scots Protestant transplanted to Ulster ancestry. In both cases some wandered back to to North East England - I kinda assume mine had something to do with the Marquess of Londonderry being a major land owner over there and in Co Durham.

Many words are freighted with meaning...

shemp · 25th June 2020, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

New England is one state. If you all have to share one Football team, you're one state.

On behalf of all New Hampshiremen, I shall have to call you out on the Field of Honor! Super Soakers loaded with New Hampshire Maple Syrup at ten paces!

Mojo · 25th June 2020, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

You've convinced me, Rhode Island shall be renamed to Gay Island.

If Oriel College is getting rid of Rhodes, getting rid of a single Rhode shouldn’t be too much to ask for.

Myriad · 25th June 2020, 11:26 AM

The state had a referendum on changing the name ten years ago. It was decisively voted down.

This time around, the "hey we already voted on that, no second bite of the apple" segment (voting no) will far outnumber the people who actively do (voting yes) or don't (voting no) want the change.

Skeptic Ginger · 25th June 2020, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

I have a bigger issue with the use of the apostrophe in "it's". It should be "its", although given the ignorance some people demonstrate I suppose it's not unexpected.

Much as I disagree often with Arcade22, he's from Sweden. I assume English is his second language, or at a minimum, one of two languages he speaks.

And it's an easy typo.

Your criticism is flawed.

Arcade22 · 25th June 2020, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

And gay can mean glad, carefree, wanton or homosexual.

What matters is how the word is actually used and understood today - not the words history. And I suggest in countries like Jamaica and the USA - to give 2 examples - the word is inextricably tied into slavery.

I guess anyone called Gaylord should be encouraged change their name then, since people might take offence...

Thermal · 25th June 2020, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

My guess is the name change has been advocated for a long time, just because no one ever calls the state by that name. It's more one of those trivia questions, an historical curiosity that the smallest state has the longest name. In actual practice, it's always just "Rhode Island", which is kind of interesting because it isn't on an Island, and no one knows the origin of the name.

However, I do find it a bit irritating that the name change is prompted by people who don't understand the meaning of words, but figure there must be something wrong with it because elsewhere that word was used to mean something entirely different. "I don't understand what you said, but it sounds bad!" is an unfortunate way to shape public policy.

It's not a twerking of Isle of Rhodes? Just kind of assumed so

TragicMonkey · 25th June 2020, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

It's not a twerking of Isle of Rhodes? Just kind of assumed so

It might be from "roads" in the oldtimey nautical sense, as RI was a big shipping area. Like "Hampton Roads" in Virginia.

mumblethrax · 25th June 2020, 04:05 PM

My favorite thing to do as a teenager was to take people to the Cornell Plantations, walk them around, take in the beauty of the place, and then say "It's great, isn't it?"
"Yeah, it really is."
(Tossing a cigarette to the ground, extinguishing it with a heel, and grimacing) "Slaves built this."

Anyway, I like to think I'm more more mature now.

I like to think that.

I guess they changed the name to the Cornell Botanic Gardens a few years back. The word has some bad connotations, for some reason.

Babbylonian · 25th June 2020, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

I guess anyone called Gaylord should be encouraged change their name then, since people might take offence...

If they were born in the last 50-60 years or so, they should be encouraged to change their name because their parents were dumb jerks.

Names go in and out of favor all the time. "Gaylord" has been out of favor for a very long time.

Thermal · 25th June 2020, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by mumblethrax

My favorite thing to do as a teenager was to take people to the Cornell Plantations, walk them around, take in the beauty of the place, and then say "It's great, isn't it?"
"Yeah, it really is."
(Tossing a cigarette to the ground, extinguishing it with a heel, and grimacing) "Slaves built this."

Anyway, I like to think I'm more more mature now.

I certainly hope you at least use ashtrays.

TragicMonkey · 25th June 2020, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by mumblethrax

My favorite thing to do as a teenager was to take people to the Cornell Plantations, walk them around, take in the beauty of the place, and then say "It's great, isn't it?"
"Yeah, it really is."
(Tossing a cigarette to the ground, extinguishing it with a heel, and grimacing) "Slaves built this."

In all likelihood, slaves also built the tobacco company that made that cigarette.

mumblethrax · 25th June 2020, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

In all likelihood, slaves also built the tobacco company that made that cigarette.

I don't smoke, don't know what you're talking about.

shemp · 25th June 2020, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

It's not a twerking of Isle of Rhodes? Just kind of assumed so

Actually, in Ancient Greek the word "Rhodes" or "Ρόδος" meant "to twerk" or to "shake your booty." So Rhode Island should be renamed "Twerk Island" or "Booty Island."

shemp · 25th June 2020, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

I guess anyone called Gaylord should be encouraged change their name then, since people might take offence...

Anyone named "Gaylord" should change their name to "Weedlord."

Thermal · 25th June 2020, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Actually, in Ancient Greek the word "Rhodes" or "Ρόδος" meant "to twerk" or to "shake your booty." So Rhode Island should be renamed "Twerk Island" or "Booty Island."

Motion to translatet 'Island' as the Phonecian 'Licious'? Always wanted a State of Booty Licious

Regnad Kcin · 25th June 2020, 06:01 PM

If we’re going to change the name anyway...

25th June 2020, 07:33 AM	#1
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,781	Rhode Island to change it's formal name Quote: Rhode Island governor Gina Raimondo has signed an executive order announcing the state would move forward with changing its official name due to its ties to American slavery. The state’s official name, “The State ofRhode Islandand Providence Plantations,” appears on state documents. But the order would shorten it to just “Rhode Island”. ... Harold Metts, Rhode Island’s only Black state senator, introduced the 2020 bill. He said: “Whatever the meaning of the term ‘plantations’ in the context of Rhode Island’s history, it carries a horrific connotation when considering the [country’s] tragic and racist history.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vernor-slavery Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

25th June 2020, 07:37 AM	#2
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,568	I'm just sooooooooooooo sure that "The number of people who will now be upset about this, will call it virtue signaling, and start hand wringing over which names we have to change next" will not vastly outnumber the number of people who know that "Rhode Island" wasn't the state's full official name a week ago.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." Last edited by JoeMorgue; 25th June 2020 at 07:39 AM.

25th June 2020, 07:38 AM	#3
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,558	Here's the Woodland Trust talkiong about plantations. https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/tre...s/plantations/
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,558	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

25th June 2020, 07:42 AM	#4
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,841	Originally Posted by Arcade22 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vernor-slavery Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery. And gay can mean glad, carefree, wanton or homosexual. What matters is how the word is actually used and understood today - not the words history. And I suggest in countries like Jamaica and the USA - to give 2 examples - the word is inextricably tied into slavery.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

25th June 2020, 07:47 AM	#5
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,568	Outside of the "Commonwealth" term a few states use instead of "state" Rhode Island does seem to be the only state I can find firm reference to having a longer "official" name or any other weird variation on how they are named. But this is like something I mentioned the previously, the "Well technically a group of (so and so animals) is called a..." problem. "A group of (Animals) is called a..." No. No it isn't. No group of specific animals is called an anything. If you see a bunch of one type of animal you are going to refer to using the same dozen or so at most handful of specific generic terms; herd, flock, pack, school, swarm, etc. Nobody ever casually and organically in real life human conversations refer to a shrewdness of apes or a shadow of jaguars or a parliament of owls or a conspiracy of lemurs. These terms literally only exist inside trivia lists about what groups of animals are called. A few outlier cases; like say "a murder of crows" do occasionally pop up but that's only because the term itself is unique and/or bizarre enough to lend itself to puns and wordplay, I still wouldn't call that organic uses of the terms in their so called proper usage. And it's not a case of these being the "technical" terms not used by laypeople. There are 649 articles containing the word "Ape" in the archives of the Etymology and Zoology Journal. The world "Shrewdness" doesn't appear once. Same thing here. No "Rhode Island" is not technically known as anything other than Rhode Island if the other name only comes up in the topic about it having another name.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." Last edited by JoeMorgue; 25th June 2020 at 07:49 AM.

25th June 2020, 07:55 AM	#6
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,558	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Outside of the "Commonwealth" term a few states use instead of "state" Rhode Island does seem to be the only state I can find firm reference to having a longer "official" name or any other weird variation on how they are named. But this is like something I mentioned the previously, the "Well technically a group of (so and so animals) is called a..." problem. "A group of (Animals) is called a..." No. No it isn't. No group of specific animals is called an anything. If you see a bunch of one type of animal you are going to refer to using the same dozen or so at most handful of specific generic terms; herd, flock, pack, school, swarm, etc. Nobody ever casually and organically in real life human conversations refer to a shrewdness of apes or a shadow of jaguars or a parliament of owls or a conspiracy of lemurs. These terms literally only exist inside trivia lists about what groups of animals are called. A few outlier cases; like say "a murder of crows" do occasionally pop up but that's only because the term itself is unique and/or bizarre enough to lend itself to puns and wordplay, I still wouldn't call that organic uses of the terms in their so called proper usage. And it's not a case of these being the "technical" terms not used by laypeople. There are 649 articles containing the word "Ape" in the archives of the Etymology and Zoology Journal. The world "Shrewdness" doesn't appear once. This is off topic, but I find this odd. Of course these are the names of groups of stuff. By the same power that dictates what every other word means - people agree that's that what they mean. To pretend that it's not the case just because it's not 'official' in some way I find odd.
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,558	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

25th June 2020, 08:03 AM	#7
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,193	Originally Posted by Arcade22 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...vernor-slavery Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery. My guess is the name change has been advocated for a long time, just because no one ever calls the state by that name. It's more one of those trivia questions, an historical curiosity that the smallest state has the longest name. In actual practice, it's always just "Rhode Island", which is kind of interesting because it isn't on an Island, and no one knows the origin of the name. However, I do find it a bit irritating that the name change is prompted by people who don't understand the meaning of words, but figure there must be something wrong with it because elsewhere that word was used to mean something entirely different. "I don't understand what you said, but it sounds bad!" is an unfortunate way to shape public policy.

25th June 2020, 08:09 AM	#9
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,175	Yawn. Personally I have a bigger issue with "Providence" than Plantation.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

25th June 2020, 08:11 AM	#10
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,222	It honestly sounds like something that might be dragged out by a Freeman On the Land. "This document says that I owe taxes to Rhode Island, but there's no such state. It's "The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations". Unless I get a document from them, I'm ignoring these demands."

25th June 2020, 08:14 AM	#11
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,178	I have a bigger issue with the use of the apostrophe in "it's". It should be "its", although given the ignorance some people demonstrate I suppose it's not unexpected.

25th June 2020, 08:35 AM	#12
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,425	Originally Posted by Darat And gay can mean glad, carefree, wanton or homosexual. What matters is how the word is actually used and understood today - not the words history. And I suggest in countries like Jamaica and the USA - to give 2 examples - the word is inextricably tied into slavery. You've convinced me, Rhode Island shall be renamed to Gay Island.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

25th June 2020, 08:37 AM	#13
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,333	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Given the ignorance some people demonstrate it's perhaps unexpected that the article does not mention the actual original meaning of "plantation": it's an older English word for colony and had nothing to do with racism or slavery. Oddly enough, Rhode Island "played a leading role in the transatlantic slave trade." https://www.brown.edu/Facilities/Joh...ibSlavery.html Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin Last edited by d4m10n; 25th June 2020 at 08:41 AM.

25th June 2020, 08:44 AM	#14
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,189	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey You've convinced me, Rhode Island shall be renamed to Gay Island. Rhodey McRhodeface
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

25th June 2020, 08:52 AM	#15
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,425	Originally Posted by shemp Rhodey McRhodeface Too late, now that I've suggested it, not naming it Gay Island is homophobic.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

25th June 2020, 09:15 AM	#16
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,189	It's not an island. A more accurate name would be "South Massachusetts." Also, there's already a Gay Island in Maine. https://mapcarta.com/22275946 I would propose instead "Gay Underbelly of Massachusetts."
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare Last edited by shemp; 25th June 2020 at 09:20 AM.

25th June 2020, 09:29 AM	#17
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,854	Plantation in America has a deeply unfortunate nuance which isn't actually in its literal meaning, but it's what everyone calls to mind when you mention the word. It's not all roses over the pond either as the plantation of Ulster in the early 1600s is the policy which parcelled out land there to British Protestants and led us eventually to the troubles of Northern Ireland.

25th June 2020, 09:51 AM	#18
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,425	Originally Posted by shemp It's not an island. A more accurate name would be "South Massachusetts." Also, there's already a Gay Island in Maine. https://mapcarta.com/22275946 I would propose instead "Gay Underbelly of Massachusetts." On my map all that's blank space with the words "Here be Yankees".
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

25th June 2020, 10:14 AM	#19
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,079	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm just sooooooooooooo sure that "The number of people who will now be upset about this, will call it virtue signaling, and start hand wringing over which names we have to change next" will not vastly outnumber the number of people who know that "Rhode Island" wasn't the state's full official name a week ago. I actually did know that was the name, though had pretty well forgotten about it until I saw the post. I am firmly in the "don't give a **** either way" camp on this one. ETA: On further consideration, count me in the "for" camp for reasons of brevity, and making the official name match what everyone calls the state anyway, as much as for whatever negative connotation the word "plantation" may have. I would guess that, never in the 300+ year history of the state and its predecessor colony, has anybody used its full name outside of official documents or speeches. It's a name the cries out to be shortened.
	Last edited by CORed; 25th June 2020 at 10:26 AM.

25th June 2020, 10:30 AM	#20
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,079	Originally Posted by shemp It's not an island. A more accurate name would be "South Massachusetts." Also, there's already a Gay Island in Maine. https://mapcarta.com/22275946 I would propose instead "Gay Underbelly of Massachusetts." IIRC, there is an actual Rhode Island somewhere of the coast that's the reason that "Rhode Island" is part of the former official name. Besides, it's not South Massachusetts; it's East Connecticut.
	Last edited by CORed; 25th June 2020 at 10:31 AM.

25th June 2020, 10:31 AM	#21
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,568	New England is one state. If you all have to share one Football team, you're one state.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

25th June 2020, 10:34 AM	#22
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,277	It was a Jeopardy final answer many years ago--what state had the longest name. They'll have to be sure to pull that episode from any streaming service.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

25th June 2020, 10:43 AM	#23
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,079	Originally Posted by Brainster It was a Jeopardy final answer many years ago--what state had the longest name. They'll have to be sure to pull that episode from any streaming service. Smallest state, biggest name. It seems a certain symmetry has been lost.

25th June 2020, 10:44 AM	#24
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 704	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge Plantation in America has a deeply unfortunate nuance which isn't actually in its literal meaning, but it's what everyone calls to mind when you mention the word. It's not all roses over the pond either as the plantation of Ulster in the early 1600s is the policy which parcelled out land there to British Protestants and led us eventually to the troubles of Northern Ireland. Yup: both the Strange Woman across the table and I have Lowland Scots Protestant transplanted to Ulster ancestry. In both cases some wandered back to to North East England - I kinda assume mine had something to do with the Marquess of Londonderry being a major land owner over there and in Co Durham. Many words are freighted with meaning...
	Last edited by Carrot Flower King; 25th June 2020 at 10:46 AM.

25th June 2020, 10:57 AM	#25
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,189	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue New England is one state. If you all have to share one Football team, you're one state. On behalf of all New Hampshiremen, I shall have to call you out on the Field of Honor! Super Soakers loaded with New Hampshire Maple Syrup at ten paces!
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

25th June 2020, 11:14 AM	#26
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,718	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey You've convinced me, Rhode Island shall be renamed to Gay Island. If Oriel College is getting rid of Rhodes, getting rid of a single Rhode shouldn’t be too much to ask for.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

25th June 2020, 11:26 AM	#27
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,447	The state had a referendum on changing the name ten years ago. It was decisively voted down. This time around, the "hey we already voted on that, no second bite of the apple" segment (voting no) will far outnumber the people who actively do (voting yes) or don't (voting no) want the change.
	__________________ A zømbie once bit my sister...

25th June 2020, 11:49 AM	#28
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,788	Originally Posted by Matthew Best I have a bigger issue with the use of the apostrophe in "it's". It should be "its", although given the ignorance some people demonstrate I suppose it's not unexpected. Much as I disagree often with Arcade22, he's from Sweden. I assume English is his second language, or at a minimum, one of two languages he speaks. And it's an easy typo. Your criticism is flawed.

25th June 2020, 03:33 PM	#29
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,781	Originally Posted by Darat And gay can mean glad, carefree, wanton or homosexual. What matters is how the word is actually used and understood today - not the words history. And I suggest in countries like Jamaica and the USA - to give 2 examples - the word is inextricably tied into slavery. I guess anyone called Gaylord should be encouraged change their name then, since people might take offence...
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

25th June 2020, 03:49 PM	#30
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,433	Originally Posted by Meadmaker My guess is the name change has been advocated for a long time, just because no one ever calls the state by that name. It's more one of those trivia questions, an historical curiosity that the smallest state has the longest name. In actual practice, it's always just "Rhode Island", which is kind of interesting because it isn't on an Island, and no one knows the origin of the name. However, I do find it a bit irritating that the name change is prompted by people who don't understand the meaning of words, but figure there must be something wrong with it because elsewhere that word was used to mean something entirely different. "I don't understand what you said, but it sounds bad!" is an unfortunate way to shape public policy. It's not a twerking of Isle of Rhodes? Just kind of assumed so
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

25th June 2020, 03:53 PM	#31
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,425	Originally Posted by Thermal It's not a twerking of Isle of Rhodes? Just kind of assumed so It might be from "roads" in the oldtimey nautical sense, as RI was a big shipping area. Like "Hampton Roads" in Virginia.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

25th June 2020, 04:05 PM	#32
mumblethrax Species traitor Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,704	My favorite thing to do as a teenager was to take people to the Cornell Plantations, walk them around, take in the beauty of the place, and then say "It's great, isn't it?" "Yeah, it really is." (Tossing a cigarette to the ground, extinguishing it with a heel, and grimacing) "Slaves built this." Anyway, I like to think I'm more more mature now. I like to think that. I guess they changed the name to the Cornell Botanic Gardens a few years back. The word has some bad connotations, for some reason.

25th June 2020, 04:08 PM	#33
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,478	Originally Posted by Arcade22 I guess anyone called Gaylord should be encouraged change their name then, since people might take offence... If they were born in the last 50-60 years or so, they should be encouraged to change their name because their parents were dumb jerks. Names go in and out of favor all the time. "Gaylord" has been out of favor for a very long time.

25th June 2020, 04:09 PM	#34
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13,433	Originally Posted by mumblethrax My favorite thing to do as a teenager was to take people to the Cornell Plantations, walk them around, take in the beauty of the place, and then say "It's great, isn't it?" "Yeah, it really is." (Tossing a cigarette to the ground, extinguishing it with a heel, and grimacing) "Slaves built this." Anyway, I like to think I'm more more mature now. I certainly hope you at least use ashtrays.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

25th June 2020, 04:13 PM	#35
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,425	Originally Posted by mumblethrax My favorite thing to do as a teenager was to take people to the Cornell Plantations, walk them around, take in the beauty of the place, and then say "It's great, isn't it?" "Yeah, it really is." (Tossing a cigarette to the ground, extinguishing it with a heel, and grimacing) "Slaves built this." In all likelihood, slaves also built the tobacco company that made that cigarette.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

25th June 2020, 04:16 PM	#36
mumblethrax Species traitor Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,704	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey In all likelihood, slaves also built the tobacco company that made that cigarette. I don't smoke, don't know what you're talking about.