Should President Barack Obama be “canceled” because of e.g. his droning of civilians?

Allen773 · 20th June 2020, 08:03 AM

I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

The Great Zaganza · 20th June 2020, 08:09 AM

That word "canceled":

I don't think it means what you think it means

TragicMonkey · 20th June 2020, 08:10 AM

You've convinced me not to vote for him if he runs again.

Giordano · 20th June 2020, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

I agree. Deeply disturbing. These actions should clearly be discussed in history books. In contrast “erased” wouldn’t contribute anything to our society or knowledge.

You probably don’t realize it but your OP has some vague link to the removal of Confederate statues! Fortunately, unlike you here, no one is proposing that these individuals be erased from history. Any more than erasing Hitler. Their good and bad should be in history books, etc. You probably haven’t been following the discussion, since you created a new thread, but the statute debate is focused on whether these individuals should be publicly honored given the evils they committed.

I will need to consider if Obama’s many statues in downtown areas should be taken down on a one by one basis.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 20th June 2020, 09:18 AM

I certainly agree that Obama's use of drone strikes was a bad thing which is very much at odds with the hero worship he gets from some quarters.

carlitos · 20th June 2020, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

Found. Past tense. We're on #45 now, and you're at least 3 1/2 years too late.

sackett · 20th June 2020, 10:49 AM

Military drones didn't begin with Obama, and they'll continue in use far into any imaginable future. They'll continue to advance in speed, range, precision, lethality, and particularly sophistication. (Sophistication refers to the primary use of drones, surveillance, which is of far greater value than their attack capabilities. Bombs and missiles make good YouTube, but not cameras.)

They may even become cheaper, although let's hope not; it's best if they remain a weapon, and a tactic, only of the strong.

Garrison · 20th June 2020, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by sackett

Military drones didn't begin with Obama, and they'll continue in use far into any imaginable future. They'll continue to advance in speed, range, precision, lethality, and particularly sophistication. (Sophistication refers to the primary use of drones, surveillance, which is of far greater value than their attack capabilities. Bombs and missiles make good YouTube, but not cameras.)

They may even become cheaper, although let's hope not; it's best if they remain a weapon, and a tactic, only of the strong.

This short film looks at potential consequences of cheaper more connected drones:

Slaughterbots

acbytesla · 20th June 2020, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

So, are we going to erase George W. Bush and Nixon since they indiscriminately bombed civilians as well?

I'm not really sure of your point. Are we comparing removing the monuments dedicated to the traitors who killed more Americans than in any other American war to actual Presidents. And I fail to see how removing the monuments to these traitors is erasing history.

timhau · 20th June 2020, 11:06 AM

Is droning somehow worse than air or missile strikes?

TruthJonsen · 20th June 2020, 12:35 PM

Any hawkishness that Obama displayed was the fault of neocon Hillary:

Militarist Monitor Profile: Hillary Clinton
https://militarist-monitor.org/profile/hillary-clinton/

JoeMorgue · 20th June 2020, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I'm not really sure of your point.

I'm going with bog-standard "Whataboutism"

Venom · 20th June 2020, 02:15 PM

Many on the progressive left have definitely "cancelled" Obama over that.

And they are the ones usually doing the cancelling. Though if we're being honest he'd be cancelled for far less given the standards some so-called "aggressive progressives" hold their politicians to.

smartcooky · 20th June 2020, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

Is droning somehow worse than air or missile strikes?

Indeed. What is so "different" about drone strikes?

A Ground Attack aircraft such as the F15, F16, F/A 18, and F-35, the A10 and AH-64, are flown by a combat pilot in the cockpit. They can carry a range of weapons systems, including...

GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs
AGM-114 Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles
GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM)

A Ground Attack Drone such as the MQ-1 Predator and the MQ-9 Reaper is flown by a combat pilot from a remote location. It can carry a range of weapons systems, including...

GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs
AGM-114 Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles
GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM)

The only difference I can see is that the pilot is sitting in a different place.

Mumbles · 20th June 2020, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

Is droning somehow worse than air or missile strikes?

There are...specific issues with how drones target civilians using signature strikes, "double taps" that kill medics, and the like. Granted, people generally dislike the killing of civilians and non-combatants, and whether it's because of the nature of UAVs (which tend to carry sophisticated sensory equipment), or the nature of the current enemies blending into civilians, but it's a problem regardless.

(Personally, I only found him to be *slightly* to the left of Hillary Clinton, and have no idea why anyone expected some lefty mcliberal - he mostly did what he said - but nobody's that interested in *actually* canceling him - particularly since he's not really spending much time in the public eye to begin with, and not at all like "#cancelcosby" where people actually wanted his show canceled.)

acbytesla · 20th June 2020, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm going with bog-standard "Whataboutism"

Yea. But no one is suggesting that history be cancelled. Robert E Lee, Jefferson Davis, Stonewall Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest were and always will be traitors and white supremacists.

Allen773 · 20th June 2020, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

So, are we going to erase George W. Bush and Nixon since they indiscriminately bombed civilians as well?

Why not?

acbytesla · 20th June 2020, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Allen773

Why not?

Whatever. It's not going to happen.

JoeMorgue · 20th June 2020, 03:26 PM

*Shrugs* All of our Rules for Warfare were written for different time and barely apply anymore anyway.

You can't make a distinction between civilians and soldiers to a greater degree than the enemy makes a distinction between civilians and soldiers.

JoeMorgue · 20th June 2020, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Whatever. It's not going to happen.

He knows that perfectly well. So by demanding we talk about it he keeps other things from happening.

As long as Obama isn't "uncancelled" (whatever the **** that means) over his drone strikes, then war mongerers on the Right can't be cancelled either.

In case you haven't noticed, that's becoming a pretty popular topic.

"I'm completely on the side of evil, so I'm going to demand we define where the line is draw before we go any further."

smartcooky · 20th June 2020, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

There are...specific issues with how drones target civilians using signature strikes, "double taps" that kill medics, and the like. Granted, people generally dislike the killing of civilians and non-combatants, and whether it's because of the nature of UAVs (which tend to carry sophisticated sensory equipment), or the nature of the current enemies blending into civilians, but it's a problem regardless.

Well that is just an argument against air strikes in general, not drones in particular.

The F-35 carries just as much sophisticated sensory equipment as a drone, probably more. In the end, regardless of whether it is a piloted aircraft or a ground/air controlled drone, it is the pilot who pulls the trigger, not the sensory equipment.

The Great Zaganza · 20th June 2020, 08:21 PM

The argument for drones is that the pilot has more time to make a decision, will not have the pressure of dying and can have his work reviewed in minute detail.

Drone warfare can be way more morally defensible than attack planes - that it isn't is intentional.

acbytesla · 20th June 2020, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

He knows that perfectly well. So by demanding we talk about it he keeps other things from happening.

As long as Obama isn't "uncancelled" (whatever the **** that means) over his drone strikes, then war mongerers on the Right can't be cancelled either.

In case you haven't noticed, that's becoming a pretty popular topic.

"I'm completely on the side of evil, so I'm going to demand we define where the line is draw before we go any further."

It's not worth talking about in my book. I'm guessing the real reason he wants to "cancel" or "erase" Obama has more to do with the color of his skin. It just bothers the hell out of them. No way could one of those people could be smarter and more eloquent than they are. No way was a colored man President.

It always kills me that the Evangelical right hated Obama, the dedicated family man who spoke kindly of almost anyone. And they love Trump, the philandering cheating whore chasing bully who treats anyone he disagrees with like ****. Obama, married a single time and Trump who was married 3 times and cheated on all of his wives including his present wife days after she gave birth to his son.

But Obama is the one they want to cancel.

Elagabalus · 20th June 2020, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

Says the guy who has as his avatar a portrait of George Washington-slave owner, rum drinker and rabble-rouser.

mumblethrax · 20th June 2020, 09:14 PM

He should probably be in prison, like every other US president during my lifetime.

bruto · 20th June 2020, 09:15 PM

Just what the word needs: expurgated history. Tear out the pages.

Quote:

The History Teacher

Trying to protect his students' innocence
he told them the Ice Age was really just
the Chilly Age, a period of a million years
when everyone had to wear sweaters.

And the Stone Age became the Gravel Age,
named after the long driveways of the time.

The Spanish Inquisition was nothing more
than an outbreak of questions such as
"How far is it from here to Madrid?"
"What do you call the matador's hat?"

The War of the Roses took place in a garden,
and the Enola Gay dropped one tiny atom
on Japan.

The children would leave his classroom
for the playground to torment the weak
and the smart,
mussing up their hair and breaking their glasses,

while he gathered up his notes and walked home
past flower beds and white picket fences,
wondering if they would believe that soldiers
in the Boer War told long, rambling stories
designed to make the enemy nod off.

(Billy Collins)

Norman Alexander · 20th June 2020, 09:21 PM

Cancel Truman. Hiroshima was very bad.

Mader Levap · 21st June 2020, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

Nice troll. Now go away.

sackett · 21st June 2020, 12:33 PM

Allen773: How is the use of attack drones objectionable?

fishbob · 22nd June 2020, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It's not worth talking about in my book. I'm guessing the real reason he wants to "cancel" or "erase" Obama has more to do with the color of his skin. It just bothers the hell out of them. No way could one of those people could be smarter and more eloquent than they are. No way was a colored man President.

It always kills me that the Evangelical right hated Obama, the dedicated family man who spoke kindly of almost anyone. And they love Trump, the philandering cheating whore chasing bully who treats anyone he disagrees with like ****. Obama, married a single time and Trump who was married 3 times and cheated on all of his wives including his present wife days after she gave birth to his son.

But Obama is the one they want to cancel.

And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit.

acbytesla · 22nd June 2020, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by fishbob

And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit.

I get that. That's unforgivable.

JoeMorgue · 22nd June 2020, 06:41 PM

Okay let's introduce some of those... things... that are true... what are they called... yeah facts.

Okay. Yes under Obama drone strikes did increase dramatically.*

Under George W. Bush, 57 Drone Strikes were carried out. 563 were carried out under Obama.

But Obama was also President during period advances in unmanned aircraft and global communications advancement.

And as noted... so? We're talking unmanned aircraft, not Skynet. A human being is still flying the aircraft and dropping the bombs, they just aren't in the aircraft when they do it.

*Obvious caveat, drone strikes are often classified so all numbers are just based on available information. Sprinkle what ever grains of

Stacyhs · 22nd June 2020, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by fishbob

And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit.

Then there was Golfgate when the GOP went ballistic over the amount of times Obama played golf.

The Don · 23rd June 2020, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by fishbob

And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I get that. That's unforgivable.

....and he put his feet on the desk....

....and put Dijon mustard on his hamberder

The man was a monster, as well as a thin-skinned narcissist

Crossbow · 23rd June 2020, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

If you can find a way of actually erasing Obama from American history, then please tell us how such a thing is done.

Otherwise, you will just have to go on living with Obama being a major fixture in American history.

Also, why is drone warfare so problematic for you?

After all, if these people were killed using more established technology such as guns, missiles, ships, tanks, aircraft, etc., then these people would still be just as dead as they are now.

JoeMorgue · 23rd June 2020, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

If you can find a way of actually erasing Obama from American history, then please tell us how such a thing is done.

I know. I mean we haven't put any statues of him up yet and apparently our entire historical archiving system is statue based.

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd June 2020, 05:30 AM

not sure what the point is here. People opposed to our endless military campaigns abroad are not fans of the Obama foreign policy.

I would contend that many of our more recent presidents are war criminals that deserve a violent death at the Hague. The bipartisan endorsement of endless war is a national disgrace.

JoeMorgue · 23rd June 2020, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

not sure what the point is here.

Standard tribalistic nihilistic whataboutism.

"Your side has standards but can't leave up to them 100%, my side has no standards, therefore through insane troll logic I'm better than you."

Mongrel · 23rd June 2020, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

And as noted... so? We're talking unmanned aircraft, not Skynet. A human being is still flying the aircraft and dropping the bombs, they just aren't in the aircraft when they do it.

I'm pretty sure Obama would have got stick either way just because that was what\is happening (see Mustardgate etc);

"OMG!! He's using drone strikes!!"

Or

"OMG! He's putting our upstanding pilots in danger"

With a small side of luddite testosterone "They're not true warriors"

I mean the normal crowd of rich white men & their stockholders still got their money, so keeping the status quo there.

dann · 23rd June 2020, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by fishbob

And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit.

The 10 Worst Scandals in Presidential History
Which One of These Is Obamagate?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

20th June 2020, 08:03 AM	#1
Allen773 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cali Four Neea Posts: 1,353	Should President Barack Obama be “canceled” because of e.g. his droning of civilians? I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history.

20th June 2020, 08:09 AM	#2
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,627	That word "canceled": I don't think it means what you think it means
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

20th June 2020, 08:10 AM	#3
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,443	You've convinced me not to vote for him if he runs again.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

20th June 2020, 09:18 AM	#5
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,239	I certainly agree that Obama's use of drone strikes was a bad thing which is very much at odds with the hero worship he gets from some quarters.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

20th June 2020, 10:49 AM	#7
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 6,362	Military drones didn't begin with Obama, and they'll continue in use far into any imaginable future. They'll continue to advance in speed, range, precision, lethality, and particularly sophistication. (Sophistication refers to the primary use of drones, surveillance, which is of far greater value than their attack capabilities. Bombs and missiles make good YouTube, but not cameras.) They may even become cheaper, although let's hope not; it's best if they remain a weapon, and a tactic, only of the strong.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

20th June 2020, 08:25 AM	#4
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 17,646	Originally Posted by Allen773 I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history. I agree. Deeply disturbing. These actions should clearly be discussed in history books. In contrast “erased” wouldn’t contribute anything to our society or knowledge. You probably don’t realize it but your OP has some vague link to the removal of Confederate statues! Fortunately, unlike you here, no one is proposing that these individuals be erased from history. Any more than erasing Hitler. Their good and bad should be in history books, etc. You probably haven’t been following the discussion, since you created a new thread, but the statute debate is focused on whether these individuals should be publicly honored given the evils they committed. I will need to consider if Obama’s many statues in downtown areas should be taken down on a one by one basis.

20th June 2020, 09:30 AM	#6
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,786	Originally Posted by Allen773 I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history. Found. Past tense. We're on #45 now, and you're at least 3 1/2 years too late.

20th June 2020, 10:59 AM	#8
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,525	Originally Posted by sackett Military drones didn't begin with Obama, and they'll continue in use far into any imaginable future. They'll continue to advance in speed, range, precision, lethality, and particularly sophistication. (Sophistication refers to the primary use of drones, surveillance, which is of far greater value than their attack capabilities. Bombs and missiles make good YouTube, but not cameras.) They may even become cheaper, although let's hope not; it's best if they remain a weapon, and a tactic, only of the strong. This short film looks at potential consequences of cheaper more connected drones: Slaughterbots
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

20th June 2020, 11:05 AM	#9
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,193	Originally Posted by Allen773 I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history. So, are we going to erase George W. Bush and Nixon since they indiscriminately bombed civilians as well? I'm not really sure of your point. Are we comparing removing the monuments dedicated to the traitors who killed more Americans than in any other American war to actual Presidents. And I fail to see how removing the monuments to these traitors is erasing history.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th June 2020, 11:06 AM	#10
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,462	Is droning somehow worse than air or missile strikes?
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

20th June 2020, 12:35 PM	#11
TruthJonsen Scholar Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 74	Any hawkishness that Obama displayed was the fault of neocon Hillary: Militarist Monitor Profile: Hillary Clinton https://militarist-monitor.org/profile/hillary-clinton/
TruthJonsen Scholar Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 74

20th June 2020, 12:44 PM	#12
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,605	Originally Posted by acbytesla I'm not really sure of your point. I'm going with bog-standard "Whataboutism"
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

20th June 2020, 02:15 PM	#13
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,889	Many on the progressive left have definitely "cancelled" Obama over that. And they are the ones usually doing the cancelling. Though if we're being honest he'd be cancelled for far less given the standards some so-called "aggressive progressives" hold their politicians to.

20th June 2020, 02:29 PM	#14
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by timhau Is droning somehow worse than air or missile strikes? Indeed. What is so "different" about drone strikes? A Ground Attack aircraft such as the F15, F16, F/A 18, and F-35, the A10 and AH-64, are flown by a combat pilot in the cockpit. They can carry a range of weapons systems, including... GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs AGM-114 Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) A Ground Attack Drone such as the MQ-1 Predator and the MQ-9 Reaper is flown by a combat pilot from a remote location. It can carry a range of weapons systems, including... GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs AGM-114 Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) The only difference I can see is that the pilot is sitting in a different place.
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

20th June 2020, 02:43 PM	#15
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,399	Originally Posted by timhau Is droning somehow worse than air or missile strikes? There are...specific issues with how drones target civilians using signature strikes, "double taps" that kill medics, and the like. Granted, people generally dislike the killing of civilians and non-combatants, and whether it's because of the nature of UAVs (which tend to carry sophisticated sensory equipment), or the nature of the current enemies blending into civilians, but it's a problem regardless. (Personally, I only found him to be slightly to the left of Hillary Clinton, and have no idea why anyone expected some lefty mcliberal - he mostly did what he said - but nobody's that interested in actually canceling him - particularly since he's not really spending much time in the public eye to begin with, and not at all like "#cancelcosby" where people actually wanted his show canceled.)
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,399

20th June 2020, 02:47 PM	#16
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,193	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm going with bog-standard "Whataboutism" Yea. But no one is suggesting that history be cancelled. Robert E Lee, Jefferson Davis, Stonewall Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest were and always will be traitors and white supremacists.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th June 2020, 03:17 PM	#17
Allen773 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cali Four Neea Posts: 1,353	Originally Posted by acbytesla So, are we going to erase George W. Bush and Nixon since they indiscriminately bombed civilians as well? Why not?

20th June 2020, 03:25 PM	#18
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,193	Originally Posted by Allen773 Why not? Whatever. It's not going to happen.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th June 2020, 03:26 PM	#19
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,605	Shrugs All of our Rules for Warfare were written for different time and barely apply anymore anyway. You can't make a distinction between civilians and soldiers to a greater degree than the enemy makes a distinction between civilians and soldiers.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

20th June 2020, 03:27 PM	#20
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,605	Originally Posted by acbytesla Whatever. It's not going to happen. He knows that perfectly well. So by demanding we talk about it he keeps other things from happening. As long as Obama isn't "uncancelled" (whatever the **** that means) over his drone strikes, then war mongerers on the Right can't be cancelled either. In case you haven't noticed, that's becoming a pretty popular topic. "I'm completely on the side of evil, so I'm going to demand we define where the line is draw before we go any further."
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

20th June 2020, 03:40 PM	#21
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,761	Originally Posted by Mumbles There are...specific issues with how drones target civilians using signature strikes, "double taps" that kill medics, and the like. Granted, people generally dislike the killing of civilians and non-combatants, and whether it's because of the nature of UAVs (which tend to carry sophisticated sensory equipment), or the nature of the current enemies blending into civilians, but it's a problem regardless. Well that is just an argument against air strikes in general, not drones in particular. The F-35 carries just as much sophisticated sensory equipment as a drone, probably more. In the end, regardless of whether it is a piloted aircraft or a ground/air controlled drone, it is the pilot who pulls the trigger, not the sensory equipment.
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! ! Last edited by smartcooky; 20th June 2020 at 03:42 PM.

20th June 2020, 08:21 PM	#22
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,627	The argument for drones is that the pilot has more time to make a decision, will not have the pressure of dying and can have his work reviewed in minute detail. Drone warfare can be way more morally defensible than attack planes - that it isn't is intentional.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

20th June 2020, 08:42 PM	#23
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,193	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue He knows that perfectly well. So by demanding we talk about it he keeps other things from happening. As long as Obama isn't "uncancelled" (whatever the ** that means) over his drone strikes, then war mongerers on the Right can't be cancelled either. In case you haven't noticed, that's becoming a pretty popular topic. "I'm completely on the side of evil, so I'm going to demand we define where the line is draw before we go any further." It's not worth talking about in my book. I'm guessing the real reason he wants to "cancel" or "erase" Obama has more to do with the color of his skin. It just bothers the hell out of them. No way could one of those people could be smarter and more eloquent than they are. No way was a colored man President. It always kills me that the Evangelical right hated Obama, the dedicated family man who spoke kindly of almost anyone. And they love Trump, the philandering cheating whore chasing bully who treats anyone he disagrees with like **. Obama, married a single time and Trump who was married 3 times and cheated on all of his wives including his present wife days after she gave birth to his son. But Obama is the one they want to cancel.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th June 2020, 08:54 PM	#24
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,919	Originally Posted by Allen773 I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history. Says the guy who has as his avatar a portrait of George Washington-slave owner, rum drinker and rabble-rouser.
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,919

20th June 2020, 09:14 PM	#25
mumblethrax Species traitor Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,704	He should probably be in prison, like every other US president during my lifetime.

20th June 2020, 09:15 PM	#26
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 27,676	Just what the word needs: expurgated history. Tear out the pages. Quote: The History Teacher Trying to protect his students' innocence he told them the Ice Age was really just the Chilly Age, a period of a million years when everyone had to wear sweaters. And the Stone Age became the Gravel Age, named after the long driveways of the time. The Spanish Inquisition was nothing more than an outbreak of questions such as "How far is it from here to Madrid?" "What do you call the matador's hat?" The War of the Roses took place in a garden, and the Enola Gay dropped one tiny atom on Japan. The children would leave his classroom for the playground to torment the weak and the smart, mussing up their hair and breaking their glasses, while he gathered up his notes and walked home past flower beds and white picket fences, wondering if they would believe that soldiers in the Boer War told long, rambling stories designed to make the enemy nod off. (Billy Collins)
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

20th June 2020, 09:21 PM	#27
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,746	Cancel Truman. Hiroshima was very bad.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

21st June 2020, 09:50 AM	#28
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,576	Originally Posted by Allen773 I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history. Nice troll. Now go away.
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

21st June 2020, 12:33 PM	#29
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 6,362	Allen773: How is the use of attack drones objectionable?
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

22nd June 2020, 05:06 PM	#30
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 7,274	Originally Posted by acbytesla It's not worth talking about in my book. I'm guessing the real reason he wants to "cancel" or "erase" Obama has more to do with the color of his skin. It just bothers the hell out of them. No way could one of those people could be smarter and more eloquent than they are. No way was a colored man President. It always kills me that the Evangelical right hated Obama, the dedicated family man who spoke kindly of almost anyone. And they love Trump, the philandering cheating whore chasing bully who treats anyone he disagrees with like ****. Obama, married a single time and Trump who was married 3 times and cheated on all of his wives including his present wife days after she gave birth to his son. But Obama is the one they want to cancel. And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit.
	__________________ "When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder. "It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels I hate bigots.

22nd June 2020, 06:27 PM	#31
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,193	Originally Posted by fishbob And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit. I get that. That's unforgivable.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

22nd June 2020, 06:41 PM	#32
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,605	Okay let's introduce some of those... things... that are true... what are they called... yeah facts. Okay. Yes under Obama drone strikes did increase dramatically.* Under George W. Bush, 57 Drone Strikes were carried out. 563 were carried out under Obama. But Obama was also President during period advances in unmanned aircraft and global communications advancement. And as noted... so? We're talking unmanned aircraft, not Skynet. A human being is still flying the aircraft and dropping the bombs, they just aren't in the aircraft when they do it. *Obvious caveat, drone strikes are often classified so all numbers are just based on available information. Sprinkle what ever grains of
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

22nd June 2020, 07:00 PM	#33
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 17,987	Originally Posted by fishbob And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit. Then there was Golfgate when the GOP went ballistic over the amount of times Obama played golf.

23rd June 2020, 01:40 AM	#34
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by fishbob And don't forget that time he wore a tan suit. Originally Posted by acbytesla I get that. That's unforgivable. ....and he put his feet on the desk.... ....and put Dijon mustard on his hamberder The man was a monster, as well as a thin-skinned narcissist

23rd June 2020, 04:31 AM	#35
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 13,307	Originally Posted by Allen773 I, for one, find America’s 44th President’s use of drone warfare deeply problematic and so I think he should be erased from American history. If you can find a way of actually erasing Obama from American history, then please tell us how such a thing is done. Otherwise, you will just have to go on living with Obama being a major fixture in American history. Also, why is drone warfare so problematic for you? After all, if these people were killed using more established technology such as guns, missiles, ships, tanks, aircraft, etc., then these people would still be just as dead as they are now.
	__________________ I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency. On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.