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Old 17th May 2020, 06:28 AM   #2001
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Capitalist societies also have welfare. And benefits of other kinds, including universal basic income.



No, they need an income to live.
Republican President, Republican Senate, Republican SCOTUS.

They are already gutting "free money for da free loaders" from stimulus and relief packages.

"Other countries this, other countries that." Other countries didn't elect Trump.
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Old 17th May 2020, 06:42 AM   #2002
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We live in a capitalist society here in America and that's not changing on a timeframe worth discussing. I don't care how poor people would fair in some alternative timeline. Right now they need jobs to survive.
Again, let's take a deep breathe. Working people who have been laid off -- like me -- have unemployment benefits available. At least in New York, the unemployed also qualify for federal pandemic unemployment assistance which pays $600.00 a week. That's plus the $1,200 stimulus check most people have received. If someone is still having trouble putting food on the table there are food pantries in most locales.

This is the worst public health crisis in over a century. It's a difficult time. But let's not make it worse than it is. The people who seem to be most effected are people who were not working before the crisis hit and were already having trouble getting enough food.

My concern is, making dramatic claims that people don't have food because of the shutdowns can create political pressure to reopen the economy whether it's safe to do so or not. That's my dog in the fight. When downstate New York reopens I will have to go back to work. I want to be sure I don't have to do that until public health officials feel it's safe. Not because people on the internet start scaring people with, 'We're all going to starve!'

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Old 17th May 2020, 06:47 AM   #2003
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That is not an exaggeration. He really said that. How disgusting.
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Old 17th May 2020, 06:57 AM   #2004
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Not because people on the internet start scaring people with, 'We're all going to starve!'
To be 100% clear I also favor public safety over economic recovery. I am most certainly not a "Sacrifice the old and weak so we can re-open Cracker Barrel" type.

That being said we cannot let the discussion happen as if we are pretending the safety nets that we should have actually exist.

Yes people without a job for 6 months should not be a death sentence. That doesn't change the fact that without a job in America you are not going to have a home, or a vehicle, or medical care, or whatnot. Bring this up is not being "dramatic" and you already know how I feel about "Oh you're being dramatic" being used as a counter.

An economic crisis here in America is going to kill more people then an equivalent economic crisis in European specifically because those safety nets don't exist. I can't make this not true by appealing to what should be.

Unemployment budgets are already running out across America and this is nowhere near as bad as it could potentially get.
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Old 17th May 2020, 06:59 AM   #2005
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I wonder if the GOP and Fox News have really thought through their strategy of deliberately killing off their supporters?
Actually minorities (more likely democrats) seem to be fairly hard-hit by Covid19. (Less health care insurance, often living in urban settings where social distancing is harder.)

The GOP may consider the loss of a few of their old white supporters as acceptable if it harms democratic supporters more.

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Old 17th May 2020, 07:10 AM   #2006
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Actually minorities (more likely democrats) seem to be fairly hard-hit by Covid19. (Less health care insurance, often living in urban settings where social distancing is harder.)

The GOP may consider the loss of a few of their old white supporters as acceptable if it harms democratic supporters more.

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I might run some numbers on this. It's true that the virus is hitting minorities harder, but that will probably happen in big cities, which are heavily Democrat anyway, so maybe won't affect statewide races. Could affect Congressional races, though. Maybe OH / Michigan.

Old people in retirement homes are in all 50 states, but might skew more in AZ, FL and TX, which could have a different effect.
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Old 17th May 2020, 07:10 AM   #2007
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
What we are seeing here:

Especially apt is the closing paragraph:
“Greater exposure to Hannity,” the researchers wrote, “leads to a greater number of Covid-19 cases and deaths.”
Which reinforces my opinion that Trump is not the most powerful person in the world, Hannity is. Along with other blowhards like Tucker Carlson, Limbaugh, et al. Because they are the people that Trump actually listens to, agrees with, and follows their suggestions.
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Old 17th May 2020, 07:12 AM   #2008
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
...That doesn't change the fact that without a job in America you are not going to have a home, or a vehicle, or medical care, or whatnot...
But that's not a fact. It's more of a factoid. It's not true that all the people who are jobless in America are homeless and without any medical care.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:05 AM   #2009
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Republican President, Republican Senate, Republican SCOTUS.

They are already gutting "free money for da free loaders" from stimulus and relief packages.

"Other countries this, other countries that." Other countries didn't elect Trump.
None of that changes what I've said.

Honestly, it's like saying that you can't criticise the Trump administration for their bad response to the pandemic because they're the Trump administration.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:08 AM   #2010
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Which reinforces my opinion that Trump is not the most powerful person in the world, Hannity is. Along with other blowhards like Tucker Carlson, Limbaugh, et al. Because they are the people that Trump actually listens to, agrees with, and follows their suggestions.
He's been moving away from Fox News recently, because he feels they don't support him sufficiently, and is instead more interested in OAN. Which is worse.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:28 AM   #2011
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That is not an exaggeration. He really said that. How disgusting.
He’s also not as carefully dancing around the idea that the coronavirus itself is a hoax the way his father did.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:30 AM   #2012
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
He's been moving away from Fox News recently, because he feels they don't support him sufficiently, and is instead more interested in OAN. Which is worse.
Worse still his embracing of Twitter essentially gives him his own private propaganda channel even if all mainstream and even most borderline crazy media abandons him.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:36 AM   #2013
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Amazing as it may sound, Trump's sons are even dumber than he is. And they'll be continuing his dynasty.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:39 AM   #2014
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That is not an exaggeration. He really said that. How disgusting.
His idiot old-man wants you to think it's already gone.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:58 AM   #2015
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Just wondering, how bad does the economy have to be for it to cause more than 1000 deaths a day for an extended period, comparable to the pandemic.
Since when have GOP talking points required facts or truth?


Post-truth, al[choke]ternative facts.
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Old 17th May 2020, 08:59 AM   #2016
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's called food. I need it to live.
Do you seriously expect to see massive death by starvation here in the US?
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:09 AM   #2017
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Amazing as it may sound, Trump's sons are even dumber than he is. And they'll be continuing his dynasty.
Just speculating, mind you:

Inherited the dumb, yes.

Propagandized their whole lives, yes.

Maybe inherited his pathologic narcissism, probably not. People may be born with a tendency toward personality disorders, not sure it's really a genetic disease. I don't think anyone's looked for the gene.

Inherited Trump's ability to con people, no. There's no evidence they'd be successful at conning people without their father's help. He's never seen to it they learned to be independent, apparently.

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Old 17th May 2020, 09:10 AM   #2018
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
He's been moving away from Fox News recently, because he feels they don't support him sufficiently, and is instead more interested in OAN. Which is worse.
OAN is worst in that it is far more biased and has less integrity (if that is possible). However, it does not have the viewer base that fox has.

Without the fox talking heads, trump would be in big trouble (regardless of the mutual love affair between trump and OAN)

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Old 17th May 2020, 09:12 AM   #2019
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
His idiot old-man wants you to think it's already gone.
Besides being an exaggerated example of pathologic narcissism, I think when people look back they are going to see Trump's also an exaggerated example of having cognitive dissonance.
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:23 AM   #2020
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Yes with Saturday's numbers entered, we're over 90,000. Link
That's less than 100K = Your prediction was wrong, therefore Trump's regime did a better than perfect response to Covid-19 and that Covid-19 is as dangerous as the common cold...or less so, more like a mild allergy...or a sniffle due to dust....
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:25 AM   #2021
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Do you seriously expect to see massive death by starvation here in the US?
If anything, people might lose weight. As a people, we're overweight because we eat too much anyway. I'm including myself in this.
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:31 AM   #2022
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
If anything, people might lose weight. As a people, we're overweight because we eat too much anyway. I'm including myself in this.
I figured people would gain weight.

Yes, meat might become harder to obtain, but cheap calories (from snack foods like chips) will remain plentiful. And with the self-isolation, people will both be less active (even small activities like walking around your office aren't happening) coupled with easy access to junk food at home.

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Old 17th May 2020, 09:33 AM   #2023
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Gov. Brian Kemp’s office issued an apology after a Georgia Public Health Department chart wrongly reported a downward trend in coronavirus cases for the third time in as many weeks.
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:34 AM   #2024
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There's no evidence they'd be successful at conning people without their father's help. He's never seen to it they learned to be independent, apparently.
It looks so far as if Trump's spawn are mere dingleberries, but I don't know what they'd be like once he's gone. It's possible they're currently doing merely what's necessary to survive a toxic father, and they might improve when on their own. There's no particular reason to think so, but it's possible.
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:44 AM   #2025
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
We're probably going to get to 120,000 deaths in less time than six months. Below is a chart from Worldometer. It shows the U.S had just over 80,000 deaths since March 31st. That's forty-four days. At the current rate we'll pass 100,000 next week sometime.
On May 14th, last Thursday, I wrote that based on the numbers, we'll probably pass 100,000 deaths by the end of next week, the week ending May 23rd. Sadly, I still think we will get there. My reason in posting this was, of course, illustrating the concern that Dr. Anthony Fauci and other public health officials have that the epidemic is not yet under control and it's dangerous to pretend or proceed as though it is. Below is a news report from The Guardian on how trump is marginalizing public health officials as he, trump, tries to spin this. I'm certain trump is under enormous pressure to reopen the economy and it appears to me he is beginning to cave.

Quote:
After disappearing for more than a week, Donald Trump’s top health officials tasked with combatting the US’s worsening coronavirus outbreak appeared with the president during a White House press conference on Friday. Drs Deborah Birx and Anthony Fauci, two of the nation’s top infectious disease experts, stood behind Trump as he and members of the White House coronavirus taskforce, including the defense secretary, Mark Esper, and health and human services secretary, Alex Azar, provided updates on vaccine development. The doctors were two of only a few participants to wear masks. They did not speak. Link
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File Type: jpg donnie knows all.jpg (68.2 KB, 7 views)
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Old 17th May 2020, 09:59 AM   #2026
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
On May 14th, last Thursday, I wrote that based on the numbers, we'll probably pass 100,000 deaths by the end of next week, the week ending May 23rd. Sadly, I still think we will get there. My reason in posting this was, of course, illustrating the concern that Dr. Anthony Fauci and other public health officials have that the epidemic is not yet under control and it's dangerous to pretend or proceed as though it is. Below is a news report from The Guardian on how trump is marginalizing public health officials as he, trump, tries to spin this. I'm certain trump is under enormous pressure to reopen the economy and it appears to me he is beginning to cave.
We're a bit past that point. He's quickly approaching the bottom of the cave at terminal velocity.

I'm only nitpicking as a vehicle for therapeutic angst, mind you.
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Old 17th May 2020, 10:02 AM   #2027
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Sorry, er, being unemployed for a year would be literally fatal to you???
The problem though, is they don't see themselves dying. But they do see not having money to pay the rent/mortgage and the grocery bill.
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Old 17th May 2020, 10:27 AM   #2028
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think he has that confused with the 2018 caravans.
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Old 17th May 2020, 10:38 AM   #2029
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
OAN is worst in that it is far more biased and has less integrity (if that is possible). However, it does not have the viewer base that fox has.

Without the fox talking heads, trump would be in big trouble (regardless of the mutual love affair between trump and OAN)

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I was talking more about the concept of influencing government policy, but your point is taken.
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Old 17th May 2020, 10:39 AM   #2030
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Thought Id add this,its doing the rounds on Twitter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkU1ob_lHCw
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Old 17th May 2020, 01:08 PM   #2031
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I don't know if this has been posted already, but it sure fits the scenario:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/monce...b601e938721768
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Old 17th May 2020, 05:10 PM   #2032
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Like the Republican Ebola furor during an Obama year, no doubt. Except that that really was entirely manufactured for media consumption and political gain, unlike the COVID coverage.
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Old 17th May 2020, 05:45 PM   #2033
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ah nm

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Old 17th May 2020, 05:47 PM   #2034
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same for this one

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Old 17th May 2020, 06:28 PM   #2035
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Why are we suprised by this?

A loud section of the American people have been convinced that the existence of government is actually evil. Remember "I'm from the government and I'm here to help"?

Add into that the perversion, in some quarters, of what was a rugged American individualism and can-do attitude into an "I'm alright Jack, **** you" attitdue that's encouraged everyone to believe that what they want is the most important thing all the time and this sort of thing was going to happen whoever was president.

Seriously, if you think they're mad now, imagine how mad they'd be if it was Hillary who'd locked them up?
Unlike Trump, HRC understands how the Constitution works and that she doesn't have the "absolute authority" to do whatever she wants and tell the governors what to do. It's not Trump who mandated the lock downs but the governors of each state. And I think she would have made that clear unlike Trump.

Part of me can't help but think that HRC is watching this cluster---- and engaging in a little schadenfreude.
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Old 17th May 2020, 06:41 PM   #2036
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When the U.S. became the nation with the MOST confirmed cases of coronavirus Clinton tweeted something like, "Well president trump assured us the United States would be always number one under his leadership." She was criticized for that comment as being in very poor taste and she took it down.

But she's always struck me as a pretty sincere person so I'd bet she probably deeply regrets, at a time like this, having lost to this whackjob. Lost in the electoral college, that is. She won the popular election by close to three million votes.
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Old 17th May 2020, 06:56 PM   #2037
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Why does Eric seem hell bent on proving that SNL's portrayal of him isn't so far fetched?

Beyond the obviously stupid statement that the virus will just go away on Nov. 4th, is his remark that Biden can't draw as large a crowd as his father.

(I have to laugh at his always saying "Donald Trump" and never "my father")

Ummm....Eric, baby...Biden hasn't been able to hold a rally as the nominee yet. There's this thing called Covid 19. Ask daddy about it. Better yet, don't. He doesn't know jack crap about it, either.

Besides, Dems haven't turned Biden into some cult figure who draws people like flies to crap.
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Old 17th May 2020, 06:58 PM   #2038
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Which reinforces my opinion that Trump is not the most powerful person in the world, Hannity is. Along with other blowhards like Tucker Carlson, Limbaugh, et al. Because they are the people that Trump actually listens to, agrees with, and follows their suggestions.
The Triumvirate of Evil.
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Old 17th May 2020, 07:01 PM   #2039
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I know I'm sitting around feeling guilty that I wasn't more enthusiastic for Clinton. I voted for her, without hesitation, but like so many people, I really didn't take Trump seriously. It wasn't until the weekend before the election that I even began to doubt, and the morning of the election when I started to feel nervous, and probably 8:00 or 8:30 on election night before I thought his victory was a serious possibility.

Had I thought it an actual possibility that Donald Trump would be in office, I probably would have worked for Hilary, and certainly not complained that she was "tone deaf" or was somehow a mediocre candidate.

And even after it became obvious that he would win, I figured it really wasn't all that big of a deal, but this situation is exactly the sort of situation that The Donald is least fit for. To whatever extent I I made my own tiny contribution to his victory, I definitely regret it.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 17th May 2020 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 17th May 2020, 07:04 PM   #2040
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I figured people would gain weight.

Yes, meat might become harder to obtain, but cheap calories (from snack foods like chips) will remain plentiful. And with the self-isolation, people will both be less active (even small activities like walking around your office aren't happening) coupled with easy access to junk food at home.

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I agree. Cheap foods bought in bulk like rice and potatoes are staples in low income families. And obesity is higher in that group. Healthier food is more expensive and less available in poor areas.
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