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Tags assassinations , JFK assassination , John F. Kennedy , Kennedy conspiracies

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Old 18th October 2018, 01:34 PM   #1921
bknight
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Quote:

From Star Trek 6: First rule of assassination: kill the assassin.

This is from one or more screen writers and is their opinion only.

Last edited by bknight; 18th October 2018 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 18th October 2018, 01:42 PM   #1922
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Well, it's never a good idea to quote idiots.
There's an obvious point to be made here, but it's so obvious there's no need for me to actually express it.

Besides, if I did, I'd likely get a warning.

Hank
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Old 18th October 2018, 04:42 PM   #1923
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
There's an obvious point to be made here, but it's so obvious there's no need for me to actually express it.

Besides, if I did, I'd likely get a warning.

Hank
Heh...

Here's the problem with killing the assassin:

Most known professional hit-men have a long list of successful hits. I'm referring to known, and confessed Mafia hit-men. The Mafia doesn't kill these guys because a good hit-man is hard to find, so when you have a guy like Sammy Gravano in your ranks you want to keep him around.

Could you imagine the clout a hit-man would have after killing JFK? He could command top-dollar, and his employer would pay him a retainer because being able to threaten someone with a visit from the guy who killed JFK would make their life much easier. This is one of the reasons the Chicago mob was happy to let people think they were in on the assassination. It's one thing to stare down Sam Giancana, that's intimidating enough, but facing off against the guy who might have whacked JFK...in broad daylight? You can't buy that kind of intimidation.
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Old 18th October 2018, 05:17 PM   #1924
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
There is a huge disconnect between CTists and the real world.

In the case of the JFK Assassination they're fixated on a second, or multiple gunmen in Dealey Plaza - none of which are Oswald, and it puts them in the position of defending incredibly stupid theories.
This is CT World 101. You don't dismiss the theory when the facts don't fit, you either...

a. where possible, continually increase the complexity (and stupidity) of the theory to force-fit the facts, or

b. ignore the facts, or handwave them away, or

c. argue excruciatingly minor points that are of minimal importance, or

d. attempt to create new meanings for words to make those words fit the theory (manifesto's multi-page argument about the meaning of the word "should" is a gold-plated example of this).

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Never once do they stop and ask the question: How would the CIA kill JFK? How would the Maffia kill JFK? How would the Cubans kill JKF? How would anti-Castro Cubans kill JFK?

There are four very different answers to each of those questions.

The CIA would have used poison. JFK had a number of ailments requiring daily medications, and it would have been easy to slip something to him.

The Maffia would have used a pretty woman. JFK regularly had sex on the side, sending Secret Service agents out to bring them to his hotel room. The Maffia's signature is always up-close and personal.

A Cuban operation to kill JFK would look a lot like what happened in Dallas. They would have pre-positioned assets in a location where the President was scheduled to appear, and hoped for the best. The problem is that an anti-Castro plot against the President would also look like what took place in Dallas too. The problem here is that Cuba would have signed their death warrant had they killed JFK, there would be no holding back the USA, and Johnson came into office looking for a war somewhere.
The problem with anti-Castro Cubans is that there were on-going MONGOOSE and AM/LASH operations against Cuba that would have continued the length of JFK's time in office. Johnson shut them down, and did more damage to the anti-Castro cause than the Bay of Pigs ever did.

In the end we're left with Lee Harvey Oswald. All of the evidence points to him acting alone.

All in all, a pretty good precis/analysis of why it is extremely unlikely that there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. It basically boils down to the fact that those who may have had the motive....

1. ...and were in a position to do it had ample opportunity to have done so quietly in a way unlikely to draw an investigation.

2. ... and were not in such a position (so would have had to go the "Dealey Plaza" way) risked severe, unacceptable repercussions.

The recently declassified JFK documents indicate very clearly that the CIA and the FBI tried very, vary hard to find a conspiracy, especially looking for Cuban involvement, and most especially after those famous 13 days the year before. I have no doubt that, had the Cuban government assassinated Kennedy, Cuba would have found itself in a war with the USA.
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

Last edited by smartcooky; 18th October 2018 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 18th October 2018, 07:51 PM   #1925
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
The same can be said of all the other fantasies about why X would kill Kennedy. It simply would have been relatively easy to destroy Kennedy without killing him and avoid the truly serious risks of trying to kill him / kill him and being caught.
I have occasionally noted that with so many people involved in the conspiracy to kill Kennedy or cover it up, i.e. the conspirators managed to get J. Edgar Hoover, Earl Warren, Gerald Ford, Hale Boggs, and Allen Dulles to all work together as a team, then what would be the point of killing the President? He obviously was just a figurehead anyway.
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Old 18th October 2018, 08:54 PM   #1926
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I have occasionally noted that with so many people involved in the conspiracy to kill Kennedy or cover it up, i.e. the conspirators managed to get J. Edgar Hoover, Earl Warren, Gerald Ford, Hale Boggs, and Allen Dulles to all work together as a team, then what would be the point of killing the President? He obviously was just a figurehead anyway.
You forgot LBJ!
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 18th October 2018, 10:46 PM   #1927
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Never once do they stop and ask the question: How would the CIA kill JFK? How would the Maffia kill JFK? How would the Cubans kill JKF? How would anti-Castro Cubans kill JFK?
I'm reminded of an line from an old detective fiction TV show. I think it was Columbo, but I'm not sure.

Anyway the detective is talking to a suspect, and lays out a theory about how the suspect might have tricked everyone into thinking he was somewhere else, he had no gun, the murder took place at a completely different time, etc.

The suspect thinks for a minute and says something like "Yeah, it all sounds too complicated. I'm more of a six sticks of dynamite kind of guy"

If any of those groups were going to kill JFK, there were certainly simpler ways to do it.
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Old 19th October 2018, 06:00 AM   #1928
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Originally Posted by JimOfAllTrades View Post
I'm reminded of an line from an old detective fiction TV show. I think it was Columbo, but I'm not sure.

Anyway the detective is talking to a suspect, and lays out a theory about how the suspect might have tricked everyone into thinking he was somewhere else, he had no gun, the murder took place at a completely different time, etc.

The suspect thinks for a minute and says something like "Yeah, it all sounds too complicated. I'm more of a six sticks of dynamite kind of guy"

If any of those groups were going to kill JFK, there were certainly simpler ways to do it.
LHO I the simplest explanation(KISS).
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Old 19th October 2018, 11:59 AM   #1929
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
LHO I the simplest explanation(KISS).
My comment should have been

LHO Is the simplest explanation(KISS).
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Old 19th October 2018, 04:36 PM   #1930
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You forgot LBJ!
Yeah if he was going to kill JFK he'd used a mind controlled steerable steer.....or somethin'
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Old 20th October 2018, 01:01 AM   #1931
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yeah if he was going to kill JFK he'd used a mind controlled steerable steer.....or somethin'
An assassin disguised as a grassy knoll, which would be programmed to self-destruct afterwards, thus fulfilling the scarily-accurate prophecies of Star Trek 6 at the same time.
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Old 20th October 2018, 01:06 AM   #1932
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So what's with the theory that the last shot was fired accidentally by one of the bodyguards, who was part of a conspiracy with Mr. J. Daniels and Mr. J. Walker?
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Old 20th October 2018, 01:26 AM   #1933
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So what's with the theory that the last shot was fired accidentally by one of the bodyguards, who was part of a conspiracy with Mr. J. Daniels and Mr. J. Walker?

Pure, unadulterated bunkum!
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 20th October 2018, 07:05 AM   #1934
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Pure, unadulterated bunkum!
That can be said of all the theories concerning the assassination of JFK.
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Old 20th October 2018, 10:24 AM   #1935
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I don't care about the dummy's head moving backwards. The 6.5 round exiting in a mostly straight line through the base of the skull was the important part.
MicahJava, did you break some CT taboo or something by posting a "back and to the left" pic where the shot came from behind? Is that why you're in hiding?

If and when you do return, we'll want to resolve the issue of why you and the other CTists were so adamant that "back and to the left" meant a shot from the front. We'll resolve that before discussing anything else.

Last edited by RoboTimbo; 20th October 2018 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 20th October 2018, 11:10 AM   #1936
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Tbf, at its most basic it could work. Hick Oswald discusses getting rid of JFK to his friends, the friends try to humor him and say OK. The day of the actual deed they pull a Terry Nichols and bail.
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Old 20th October 2018, 11:35 AM   #1937
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Today, on October 20, 1963, Marina gives birth to their second daughter, Audrey.

Oswald stayed home to babysit while Ruth Paine drove her to the hospital. When Marina was taken into the delivery room Ruth went home to care for her own family.

Marina gives birth with no friends or family present.

When Ruth arrives home she finds Oswald fast asleep, you know, because he was obviously worried about his wife and new child. She doesn't wake him, and breaks the news tomorrow.
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Old 20th October 2018, 11:44 AM   #1938
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So what's with the theory that the last shot was fired accidentally by one of the bodyguards, who was part of a conspiracy with Mr. J. Daniels and Mr. J. Walker?
The theory is that one of the Secret Service Agents in the chase car accidentally made the head-shot with their brand new M-16A1 rifle.

The first problem is that EVERYONE ON ELM STREET WOULD HAVE SEEN THIS.

The second problem is that both bullet holes in JFK were made with the same caliber weapon fired from the same location, and .556 is much smaller than 6.5, so it would be like comparing getting run over by a Ferrari as opposed to a locomotive.

Third problem is the shot from that car was not really possible to create the wound.

Fourth problem is that the Secret Service would have copped to it immediately. The Presidential detail has high standards and doesn't want a third-rate hack in their ranks. That guy would have been nailed to the wall very publicly.
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Old 20th October 2018, 11:57 AM   #1939
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Hick Oswald discusses getting rid of JFK to his friends,
To his what now? Oswald could have been a modern day CTist, considering the number of friends he had.
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Old 20th October 2018, 03:54 PM   #1940
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
To his what now? Oswald could have been a modern day CTist, considering the number of friends he had.
That's an understatement.

You can listen to the guy dodge question by qualifying answers, or re-framing the question and then sort of answering them here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_mg5-KCjRU&t=506s

This is a small goldmine into Osald's head. The guy is a quality BS-er.
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Old 20th October 2018, 04:15 PM   #1941
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So what's with the theory that the last shot was fired accidentally by one of the bodyguards, who was part of a conspiracy with Mr. J. Daniels and Mr. J. Walker?
Some of the Secret Service detail assigned to Presidential protection were out late Thursday night into Friday morning. I don't know if any of them had Jack Daniels or Johnny Walker drinks. Some of them had a few beers. All this is spelled out in the Warren Report.

The bodyguard theory doesn't work because two large fragments of a bullet were discovered in the Presidential Limo the evening of the assassination. Those two large fragments were determined to have been fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle with the serial number C2766 that was recovered from the sixth floor of the Depository to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world. Those two large fragments could only have been the result of the head shot, the only part of JFK's body that was hard enough to break up a bullet in that fashion and that was struck by a bullet. He was also struck in the neck, but that bullet struck no bone and therefore would not have broken apart into multiple pieces.

The bullet fragments could only have come from the head shot. And the bullet fragments came from Oswald's rifle. Ergo, no Secret Service accidental shooting of JFK.

Hank
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Old 20th October 2018, 04:51 PM   #1942
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That's an understatement.

You can listen to the guy dodge question by qualifying answers, or re-framing the question and then sort of answering them here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_mg5-KCjRU&t=506s

This is a small goldmine into Osald's head. The guy is a quality BS-er.
As I said earlier in the thread, the guy had a career in pirate radio. He kind of has a beat poet thing going on. He could talk about killing JFK figuratively as stream of consciousness Kerouacian rant. Cool baby.
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Old Yesterday, 05:29 AM   #1943
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Some of the Secret Service detail assigned to Presidential protection were out late Thursday night into Friday morning. I don't know if any of them had Jack Daniels or Johnny Walker drinks. Some of them had a few beers. All this is spelled out in the Warren Report.

The bodyguard theory doesn't work because two large fragments of a bullet were discovered in the Presidential Limo the evening of the assassination. Those two large fragments were determined to have been fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle with the serial number C2766 that was recovered from the sixth floor of the Depository to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world. Those two large fragments could only have been the result of the head shot, the only part of JFK's body that was hard enough to break up a bullet in that fashion and that was struck by a bullet. He was also struck in the neck, but that bullet struck no bone and therefore would not have broken apart into multiple pieces.

The bullet fragments could only have come from the head shot. And the bullet fragments came from Oswald's rifle. Ergo, no Secret Service accidental shooting of JFK.

Hank
The CT's grabbing at any straw that might point to a conspiracy. I remember one such that the driver of the limo turned and fired on JFK, proven by the Zapruder film. But personally I have studied the film and I find no evidence of the driver turning and firing on JFK.
We've lived for a couple of generations after the assassination and still have some, perhaps not as many people believing in a conspiracy. The quick sexy CT is easy to swallow instead of looking for the answers. No amount of theory will put the bullet fragments including the "magic bullet" back into any other weapon. You know the one with LHO hand prints on it. Fate and chance puts him on a course to assassination.
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Old Yesterday, 04:22 PM   #1944
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I think if Oswald were still alive today he'd have a podcast.
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM   #1945
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
The CT's grabbing at any straw that might point to a conspiracy. I remember one such that the driver of the limo turned and fired on JFK, proven by the Zapruder film. But personally I have studied the film and I find no evidence of the driver turning and firing on JFK.
We've lived for a couple of generations after the assassination and still have some, perhaps not as many people believing in a conspiracy. The quick sexy CT is easy to swallow instead of looking for the answers. No amount of theory will put the bullet fragments including the "magic bullet" back into any other weapon. You know the one with LHO hand prints on it. Fate and chance puts him on a course to assassination.
There's so many of them, it hard to keep track. According to author Vincent Bugliosi, at one time or another, doubters of the lone gunman theory "have accused 42 groups, 82 assassins and 214 people of being involved in the assassination,"

Here's the on that I have heard about...

The New Orleans conspiracy
The Shadow government conspiracy
The Secret Service conspiracy
The Lee Harvey Oswald had a double conspiracy
The CIA conspiracy
The Military-industrial complex conspiracy
The Israeli government conspiracy
The Cuban exiles conspiracy
The Cuban government conspiracy
The Soviet government conspiracy
The Organized crime conspiracy
The Lyndon B. Johnson conspiracy
The Decoy hearse and wound alteration conspiracy
The Federal Reserve conspiracy
The Aliens did it conspiracy

Then on top of all that, there are many different theories within those conspiracy theories as to what is supposed to have taken place in Dealey Plaza that day

A second shooter on the Grassy Knoll
Two shooters on the Grassy Knoll
Three shooters on the Grassy Knoll
Shooters across from the Grassy Knoll
The shooter was on the overbridge
A second shooter on another floor of the TSBD
Jackie was the shooter
The limo driver was the shooter
Ted Cruz's Father was the shooter
James Files was the shooter
Umbrella man was the shooter
One of the motorcycle cops was the shooter.
The shooter was on top of the Dal-Tex building
A shooter in a kerbside drain
Multiple shooters (up to nine) throughout Dealey Plaza
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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