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#161 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 42,156
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For a different view
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...-say/93681294/ "What may seem like a dramatic rise in the number of hate harassment and hate incidents happening across the country in the wake of Tuesday's general election is not in anyone's imagination, experts say. There indeed has been a spike in the number of reports of such incidents, say representatives for two organizations that track such occurrences. A representative for one group, in fact, said the rise appears to be even worse that what was took place immediately after the terror attacks in 2001." |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#162 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,033
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I've been looking for some.of the ones that appear on Facebook and there is absolutely nothing on any reputable news outlets, unless you consider a blogging in Portland Oregon or Sacramento as "reputable"
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#163 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,890
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Great minds discuss ideas. Medium minds discuss events. Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook. |
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#164 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,294
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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#165 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,033
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#166 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,294
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Sorry, I see that you were looking for some specific ones on Facebook, rather than if there was a more general increase.
As I said before, going from 'zero' to 'daily' was a local increase. The number of swastika I've seen has increased from 'one sometimes carved into a public bathroom stall' to 'spray painted on the university', and overtly racist conversation went from 'hushed tones' to 'blatant'. The videos of the schools with people chanting things seems to be rock solid documentation as well. |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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#167 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,033
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Certainly I have noticed (with the emphasis on "noticed") an apparent increase in people's use of language that is offensive/denigrating. Whether it is because I am more sensitive to it or it's real, I cannot affirm.
But I get sent things like "Muslim Firebombed on Highway", or "6 stabbed in Dallas Racist attack", and I find nothing more recent than 2012, I get a bit testy. And there have been folks, emboldened by perceived leniency because of the elections, who ARE putting racist/sexist things out--fliers at SMU, for example. As far as I can see, even in Texas, the authorities are coming down hard on those they catch. They don't catch all of them, though. |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#168 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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It's probably a false flag. Just as soon as all the racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, sexist bigots come out of the closet to parade their nasty, as just as soon as we document them all - THAT'S WHEN THE HAMMER FALLS!
Well played NSA, well played. |
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#169 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 37,737
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If you want to disprove "news" it's always best to go to the sources. Alternately, it might be best to just ignore anecdotes. I don't find that article terribly convincing. People lie on Facebook? Gasp! Twitter is for ********? Don't tell me!
Meanwhile there are legitimate news articles every day on actual cases, including video footage of the perp(s) and arrests in at least one case... but the incidents are generally cowardly sneak-attacks of graffiti. No one's likely to be so emboldened by Trump's victory to tell someone to move to the back of the bus, finger a weapon and tell them their time is coming or any such B-Movie made-up crap. I suspect most of the graffiti is kids. I don't think for a second that Stormfront is shouting "Woo Hoo, We Won, Time to Attack!" So? Racist violence? Probably no greater than before the election, but count on it getting reported as though it is. Racist vandalism? I think it's probably on the upswing. Mob mentality, and all that. |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#170 |
Salted Sith Cynic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 38,515
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Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis |
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#171 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,319
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Because if someone can espouse hateful views and not face consequences for it (aside from it rightfully being called hateful), that normalizes it. It becomes "one of many acceptable viewpoints." This is similar to why many people objected to Bill Nye accepting a debate against Ken Hamm, regardless of the outcome, it gives the appearance of equivalence between two arguments.
Now, if someone can espouse hateful views and be elevated, in part, because of it, that can be read as those views being admirable or preferable. This effect occurs regardless of whether the hateful rhetoric is 'why' he was elevated, since people will read what they want to into it. In studying social uprisings, I've encountered that one of the earliest strategies for organization is the use of a common symbol. It reveals to people how many stand against the reigning orthodoxy. It suggests that this contrary viewpoint has power and widespread support. So when a demagogue preaching hate is seen to have a great deal of support (and/or lack of resistance), people who share that view grow bolder and begin to embrace even more overt gestures. It's a very fundamental part of social organization engaged in by a social species. |
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#172 |
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 12,150
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There were similar posts to yours which crossed the line with faulty association to yours own.
No evidence of actual rise means fairly weak discussion with unchecked bias and personal interpretations for both sides. IIRC Brexit showed up in statistics fairly quickly. |
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#173 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,401
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#174 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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#175 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The great American southeast
Posts: 8,469
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Trump didn't tell them to do that. He told them to stop in fact. While there are low life's supporting Trump there are even more low life's supporting Hillary Clinton.
I'm nearly seventy years old and I;ve never seen a post-election like this ever. Riots, broken windows, fires, beatings all coming from Hillarys supporters and from some of Trumps supporters too. Never have I seen anything like this before. My generation sometimes rioted against social injustices but never for something so petty as losing a Presidential race. |
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If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else. |
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#176 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,198
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#177 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,198
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http://buffalonews.com/2016/11/09/di...-election-day/
https://twitter.com/SDSUPD/status/796535405667491840 http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/clout/400560361.html Not looking very hard are you? Why is that I wonder? |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#178 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,401
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All lowlifes support Trump. He's got the racists, conspiracy theorists, the misogynists, the anti-science folks and the religious bigots.
The reason you've never seen a post-election period like this is because this isn't normal. You haven't elected a normal president. You've elected an authoritarian racist. This is going to get a lot worse. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#179 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,033
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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#180 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,138
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That hardly seems like a massive wave of hate crimes directed at minorities. A ripple of hate misdemeanors, maybe?
Assuming they're even pro Trump, anti minority graffiti in the first place. They could be disgruntled minorities calling Trump out as Hitlerian. They could even be hoaxes. We know progressives aren't above manufacturing petty hate crimes to advance their narrative. When I think of hate crimes, I think of violent crimes against members of protected classes, motivated in part because of their membership in that class. And I expect to know about them the same way I know about other crimes: because they get reported in regional and national mainstream press. Like these swastika graffiti stories you found, for example. If that's the worst you can find, then I don't think there's much of a problem. |
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#181 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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#182 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 774
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Some American should maybe learn how "Davon haben wir nichts gewusst!" translates into English. It could become a useful sentence in a fear years...
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#183 | |||
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,172
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You mean:
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#184 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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#185 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 9,707
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I'm kind of on the fence here. If this is legitimate work by white nationalists, I find it extremely disturbing. On the other hand, however, all of the Hitler-related rhetoric I've heard has been coming from Clinton supporters who are equating Trump with Hitler. Until they have the vandals in hand, I'm not going to assume that this was Trump supporters. Nor am I going to assume that it was Clinton supporters.
I'm going to assume that it was crass hate-filled idiots... which seem to have a fairly equal chance of being on either side of the aisle right now. |
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I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me. |
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#186 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,868
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#187 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,868
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#188 |
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,382
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#189 |
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,382
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#190 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 9,707
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I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me. |
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#191 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,138
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#192 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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#193 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,808
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One step that I'd highly recommend- Denounce the KKK parade in NC celebrating his victory as a victory for white supremacy.
A statement similar to the one made by the NC GOP would be fine. If it were me, I'd go farther with something like: "I do not stand for white supremacy or white nationalism, my campaign and my deepest desire have been to make America great for all Americans, regardless of their skin color, religion, sexuality or where their ancestors came from. If the North Carolina KKK believes that I support their hatred, they are dead wrong. If they believe my victory at the polls was a victory for their hatred, they are dead wrong. I have no tolerance for their hatred and I will not allow them to pretend that I support their twisted views." If he really condemns their racism, then now is the time to make that kind of statement in clear, unquestionable terms. The only downside I can see to such a statement is that he may lose the support of people who believe he supports their racist ideals. If their support is that important to him, then he certainly confirms some of the worst suppositions about him. |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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#194 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,159
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Sounds like a case of the Duncan Anderson Effect (Allegedly in one match the soccer player was shown a red card and responded "If I'm to be accused of it I might as well as done it" and then knocked out the referee.")
Of slightly more and disturbing interest are these remarks from Kanye West, discussed by Snopes:
Quote:
http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/18/kan...-donald-trump/ And this 'document' that turned up in my inbox, I find the opening disclaimer amusing:
Quote:
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"I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!" 'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail Everybody gets it wrong sometimes... |
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#195 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,138
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I'm talking specifically about the graffitti that connects Trump with Nazism. Without interviewing the perpetrators, it's impossible to say whether they were inspired to celebrate his racism or denounce it.
Again, Many people on the left connected Bush with Hitler. Just likening someone to Nazis doesn't make you a racist. What makes you think that the authors of this graffitti are |
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#196 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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#197 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,138
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#198 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,608
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#199 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,319
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I'd say at least half of the cabinet or agency head picks so far are doing a great job of dispelling any illusions that the hateful rhetoric was just a ploy to get elected and then govern in an inclusive, enlightened fashion.
Jeff Sessions, who once tried to use the Voting Rights Act to punish black people for voting, as Attorney General illustrates the point quite nicely. |
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#200 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 37,737
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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