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Old 11th December 2016, 05:33 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Even politicians aren't safe.
The first Somali-American legislator, Minnesota state representative-elect Ilhan Omar, was harassed by a cab driver in Washington, DC on her way from the White House, where she'd been attending a meeting about policy ideas, last Tuesday.
The cab driver "called me ISIS and threatened to remove my hijab", said Omar who described his words as "the most hateful, derogatory, islamophobic, sexist taunts and threats I have ever experienced".

The deplorables are at it again.
Remarkable that she found a cab not driven by a Somali
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Old 11th December 2016, 09:54 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
No, the deplorables have been at it all along.

The spurious point of this thread is that there has been a rise in the rate. I think that is un-falsifiable at the level of verbal insults.
What? The plural of Twitter anecdotes is not data?
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Old 11th December 2016, 10:30 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The article has an update saying she's been found safe.
Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Cool story Sis'.

Why would the original story be given consideration as news? Any, non provable statement is now taken as proof unto itself?
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
It's part of the massive wave, mon.

This should have you sitting on the edge of your seat gnawing your fingernails with worry.
"Massive wave" my butt. That "reported missing" story is really just a re-publishing of the original "harassment" story. Following the link from there to the original "reported missing" story gets you another repeat of the "harassment" story. Following the link from the update about how she's safe gets you yet another repeat of the "harassment" story. I think we need to divide all these reports of a "massive wave" by a factor of five. Then maybe we can see if there's anything more than fake news going on.

Last edited by theprestige; 11th December 2016 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 11th December 2016, 10:39 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Massive wave" my butt. That "reported missing" story is really just a re-publishing of the original "harassment" story. Following the link from there to the original "reported missing" story gets you another repeat of the "harassment" story. Following the link from the update about how she's safe gets you yet another repeat of the "harassment" story. I think we need to divide all these reports of a "massive wave" by a factor of five. Then maybe we can see if there's anything more than fake news going on.
What is this, some kind of skeptics site?
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Old 12th December 2016, 05:07 AM   #285
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Remind me, please, what was the dismissal of the SPLC numbers?
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Old 12th December 2016, 05:24 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Remind me, please, what was the dismissal of the SPLC numbers?
All false flag attacks by blacks of course. Or just random trolling like on the internet and not true hate.
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Old 12th December 2016, 07:21 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Massive wave" my butt. That "reported missing" story is really just a re-publishing of the original "harassment" story. Following the link from there to the original "reported missing" story gets you another repeat of the "harassment" story. Following the link from the update about how she's safe gets you yet another repeat of the "harassment" story. I think we need to divide all these reports of a "massive wave" by a factor of five. Then maybe we can see if there's anything more than fake news going on.
Didn't the story have you on the edge of your seat wondering what had happened to the poor girl ? Had the Klan come for her ? Had she run off to join ISIS ? Had the media spotlight burned her to a crisp ? Had she run off to a safe space to assuage a guilty conscience ? Enquiring minds want to know.

Turns out she was over at a friends place.
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Old 12th December 2016, 07:22 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Remind me, please, what was the dismissal of the SPLC numbers?
There were several incidents of hate bias left out of the report, Hate bias against whites.
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Old 12th December 2016, 07:27 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
There were several incidents of hate bias left out of the report, Hate bias against whites.
Ok, so you are asserting that the wave of hate crimes was actually much larger than reported. And yet, this is being dismissed. Why?
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Old 12th December 2016, 07:34 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Ok, so you are asserting that the wave of hate crimes was actually much larger than reported. And yet, this is being dismissed. Why?
I'm not asserting it, the article I referenced is, and as to why those incidents were omitted we can only come to the conclusion that the SPLC had a narrative they wanted to push and these incidents didn't fit in all that well.
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Old 12th December 2016, 07:35 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I'm not asserting it, the article I referenced is, and as to why those incidents were omitted we can only come to the conclusion that the SPLC had a narrative they wanted to push and these incidents didn't fit in all that well.
Did you deliberately miss my point? Why are people in this thread dismissing this wave of hate crime if, as you say, it's actually much larger than what was reported by the SPLC?
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Old 12th December 2016, 09:06 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
All false flag attacks by blacks of course. Or just random trolling like on the internet and not true hate.
Yes, it is rather distressing that some of these incidents haven't panned out the way we hoped and all we can do is hope that the person of interest in the Pat/Jude in Cincinnati case turns out to be a real white supremacist rather than one of those alarmingly referred to "darkies" upthread.
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Old 12th December 2016, 09:19 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, it is rather distressing that some of these incidents haven't panned out the way we hoped and all we can do is hope that the person of interest in the Pat/Jude in Cincinnati case turns out to be a real white supremacist rather than one of those alarmingly referred to "darkies" upthread.
Ahem, wanna answer my post above? Or are you content with trolling in this thread? Maybe wait a few pages and then announce you aren't going to troll anymore, completely lose the argument and run away?
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Old 12th December 2016, 10:23 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Ahem, wanna answer my post above? Or are you content with trolling in this thread? Maybe wait a few pages and then announce you aren't going to troll anymore, completely lose the argument and run away?
Responses will me made at my convenience, not yours. Now did you wish to refute the article that suggests the SPLC left out reports on bias incidents against whites, or not ?
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Old 12th December 2016, 10:58 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Responses will me made at my convenience, not yours. Now did you wish to refute the article that suggests the SPLC left out reports on bias incidents against whites, or not ?
No, I am taking your word for it at this time.

You can read in my post what I do want to discuss. I'll repeat it here for your pleasure:

Why are people in this thread dismissing this wave of hate crime if, as you say, it's actually much larger than what was reported by the SPLC?

If you just want to troll, go ahead and lose whatever credibility you have left.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:19 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Why are people in this thread dismissing this wave of hate crime if, as you say, it's actually much larger than what was reported by the SPLC?
I will give you an answer, mostly because I find your question to be leading as well as based on a flawed assumption.

Not everyone in this thread is dismissing it, and those who do aren't doing so for the reason that you present.

Some people are dismissing this as being "massive" as well as "hate crime". A small, short-lived spike that quickly returns to baseline level doesn't constitute a "massive wave".

Some people question the veracity of the claims, and view at least some of them as being false. There's some actual documentation of this - at least some of the reported "hate crimes" have been put-up jobs or actions intended to make the "other side" look bad.

Some people have also complained that the media and the cited sources in this thread have been cherry-picking. The thread specifies a wave of hate crimes against minorities, and many of the media reports have focused on presumptive hate-based actions aimed at minorities (even though some of these have been shown to be false). They are ignoring and discounting the actions of self-styled liberals who have enacted violence and hate against people who voted for Trump, as well as hatred directed at otherwise innocent white people on the assumption that they are racists because Trump.

So all in all, the question that you're asking is a false question, based on false assumptions, and seems intended to re-frame the actual issues in this thread.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:24 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I will give you an answer, mostly because I find your question to be leading as well as based on a flawed assumption.

Not everyone in this thread is dismissing it
I never claimed they did. I don't dismiss it, for example, and I'm in the thread.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
, and those who do aren't doing so for the reason that you present.
I didn't present a reason, I asked a question. The hint is in the '?'.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Some people are dismissing this as being "massive" as well as "hate crime". A small, short-lived spike that quickly returns to baseline level doesn't constitute a "massive wave".
Arguably, it does.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Some people question the veracity of the claims, and view at least some of them as being false. There's some actual documentation of this - at least some of the reported "hate crimes" have been put-up jobs or actions intended to make the "other side" look bad.
Sure, and there's also actual statistics that corroborate the findings.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Some people have also complained that the media and the cited sources in this thread have been cherry-picking. The thread specifies a wave of hate crimes against minorities, and many of the media reports have focused on presumptive hate-based actions aimed at minorities (even though some of these have been shown to be false).
Who exposed the false claims? Surely it couldn't have been the 'media' could it? *Looks at sources* By GODS!

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
They are ignoring and discounting the actions of self-styled liberals who have enacted violence and hate against people who voted for Trump, as well as hatred directed at otherwise innocent white people on the assumption that they are racists because Trump.
They are? Who reported on the violence and hate against people who voted for Trump then? OH JESUS ON A WHOPPER, it's the media as well...

How deep does this thing go?

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
So all in all, the question that you're asking is a false question, based on false assumptions, and seems intended to re-frame the actual issues in this thread.
It's a false question?

You are saying people aren't dismissing the hate crime - which we have learned from Stout is even bigger than the SLPC reported? I could have sworn I saw dismissal of it...


OH CR...
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:57 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I never claimed they did. I don't dismiss it, for example, and I'm in the thread.



I didn't present a reason, I asked a question. The hint is in the '?'.



Arguably, it does.



Sure, and there's also actual statistics that corroborate the findings.



Who exposed the false claims? Surely it couldn't have been the 'media' could it? *Looks at sources* By GODS!



They are? Who reported on the violence and hate against people who voted for Trump then? OH JESUS ON A WHOPPER, it's the media as well...

How deep does this thing go?



It's a false question?

You are saying people aren't dismissing the hate crime - which we have learned from Stout is even bigger than the SLPC reported? I could have sworn I saw dismissal of it...


OH CR...


Let's try this again:

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Why are people in this thread dismissing this wave of hate crime if, as you say, it's actually much larger than what was reported by the SPLC?
Your question isn't a genuine question, it's a leading question, and it's using a false premise. You're not asking out of genuine curiosity; you're asking it because you're hoping to lead someone to an answer that will let you jump in with a "gotcha". Yes I know, it's mind-reading on my part, but in this case it's a completely transparent ploy.

So again: Some people are dismissing it as a massive wave of hate crimes against minorities. Adding the hate against non-minority peoples doesn't make it much larger than what has been reported as crimes against minorities. Furthermore, the people dismissing it as not being a "massive wave" are not necessarily the same people who are adding additional crimes. And in many of those instances, the people who are dismissing it as a "massive wave" are dismissing it because several of the instances cited as hate crimes have been shown to be false.

Why you're focusing on the media, I have no idea.
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Old 12th December 2016, 12:01 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Let's try this again:



Your question isn't a genuine question, it's a leading question, and it's using a false premise. You're not asking out of genuine curiosity; you're asking it because you're hoping to lead someone to an answer that will let you jump in with a "gotcha". Yes I know, it's mind-reading on my part, but in this case it's a completely transparent ploy.
I am actually completely honest in my question. I do not get how or why people can dismiss this when it worries the **** out of me. Racial violence and hate crime is something that can lead to large scale social disorder.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
So again: Some people are dismissing it as a massive wave of hate crimes against minorities. Adding the hate against non-minority peoples doesn't make it much larger than what has been reported as crimes against minorities. Furthermore, the people dismissing it as not being a "massive wave" are not necessarily the same people who are adding additional crimes. And in many of those instances, the people who are dismissing it as a "massive wave" are dismissing it because several of the instances cited as hate crimes have been shown to be false.

Why you're focusing on the media, I have no idea.
Because you said people were dismissing it because "the media and the cited sources in this thread have been cherry-picking".

None of the reasons you have provided is a good reason to dismiss this. It's all excuses to not having to face a serious problem.
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Old 12th December 2016, 01:01 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I am actually completely honest in my question. I do not get how or why people can dismiss this when it worries the **** out of me. Racial violence and hate crime is something that can lead to large scale social disorder.


Because you said people were dismissing it because "the media and the cited sources in this thread have been cherry-picking".
My apologies. Much of the media outcry has been cherry-picking, and the media sources that fueled this thread appeared to be cherry-picked.

My personal impression, for which I have not done any significant amount of research, is that the media sources that are debunking some of these are not the same sources that are reporting them .

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
None of the reasons you have provided is a good reason to dismiss this. It's all excuses to not having to face a serious problem.
I think the basic question here is whether or not there is a serious problem at all.

Look - hate crimes, in and of themselves, are a big deal. I'm just not really certain that there's been a large and consistent increase in them because of Trump. I cannot at this point tell if there has been a material increase in the frequency of hate crimes. Partly this is because 1) several of the reported incidents have been false, so shouldn't be counted in our comparison and 2) several of the incidents seem to be retaliatory or preemptive actions that are against non-minorities. Maybe I should be concerned about those - but I don't view them in the same light as "hate crimes", at least not at this juncture. Right now, I view them as people behaving like asses in general, and less as concentrated attribute-based hatred.

My contention is that I'm not convinced that there has been a material increase. A blip, while concerning, isn't necessarily something that needs all hands on deck. A consistent increase, on the other hand, needs action in response. I'm not seeing that this is what has been going on. For the most part, I end up with the impression that there are a lot of over-sensitive people who are so wrapped up in worry about it that they're seeing (and in some cases manufacturing) hatred to respond to. Until I have sufficient evidence that is comparable in a reasonable fashion... I see this as pretty much the same as the "increase" in autism that fuels all the anti-vax crowd. It's not actually any different, you're just looking really hard for it so you see it everywhere.
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Old 12th December 2016, 09:18 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Remarkable that she found a cab not driven by a Somali
No mention of a country of origin but the cab driver is described as an African Immigrant. Trump was never mentioned.


Link 1



Link 2
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Old 12th December 2016, 10:27 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Did you deliberately miss my point? Why are people in this thread dismissing this wave of hate crime if, as you say, it's actually much larger than what was reported by the SPLC?
Here's your answer. They are almost all fake. Fake reports, people faking actual events. Almost all fake. They, like you, want to establish a narrative.
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Old 12th December 2016, 10:32 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I am actually completely honest in my question. I do not get how or why people can dismiss this when it worries the **** out of me. Racial violence and hate crime is something that can lead to large scale social disorder.
Because they are almost all FAKE. What you should be asking are why are all these libs faking hate crime attacks. The answer is quite obvious.
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Old 13th December 2016, 10:05 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Even politicians aren't safe.
The first Somali-American legislator, Minnesota state representative-elect Ilhan Omar, was harassed by a cab driver in Washington, DC on her way from the White House, where she'd been attending a meeting about policy ideas, last Tuesday.
The cab driver "called me ISIS and threatened to remove my hijab", said Omar who described his words as "the most hateful, derogatory, islamophobic, sexist taunts and threats I have ever experienced".

The deplorables are at it again.
Curious that you would call an African Immigrant "deplorable."

sad
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Old 13th December 2016, 10:32 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
My contention is that I'm not convinced that there has been a material increase. A blip, while concerning, isn't necessarily something that needs all hands on deck. A consistent increase, on the other hand, needs action in response. I'm not seeing that this is what has been going on. For the most part, I end up with the impression that there are a lot of over-sensitive people who are so wrapped up in worry about it that they're seeing (and in some cases manufacturing) hatred to respond to. Until I have sufficient evidence that is comparable in a reasonable fashion... I see this as pretty much the same as the "increase" in autism that fuels all the anti-vax crowd. It's not actually any different, you're just looking really hard for it so you see it everywhere.
I was hoping we'd get to a line that I've heard come from people who also, ironically, "don't see an increase in hate crimes at all."

If you pussies, I mean that generally to all of the minorities complaining, would stop being so offended by blatant racism, maybe the racism wouldn't be so bad. I mean, seriously.
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Old 13th December 2016, 11:36 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I was hoping we'd get to a line that I've heard come from people who also, ironically, "don't see an increase in hate crimes at all."

If you pussies, I mean that generally to all of the minorities complaining, would stop being so offended by blatant racism, maybe the racism wouldn't be so bad. I mean, seriously.
The post it note incident seriously doesn't qualify as a hate crime.
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Old 13th December 2016, 11:47 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Remind me, please, what was the dismissal of the SPLC numbers?
I do not dismiss the SPLC numbers, but I do think they should be viewed skeptically:

1. They are biased in favor of a particular narrative. This is understandable; the SPLC is know n to be a biased organization that focuses on specific narratives in order to remedy specific harms.

2. They are cherry-picked to support the narrative.

3. They are unverifiable.

4. There is no way to distinguish between increases in reporting vs. increases in actual incidents.

5. False flag/hoax incidents of hate crimes do exist. Examples have been provided in this thread. Without verifiability, this makes the numbers dubious.

I don't dismiss the SPLC numbers. I also don't think they do much to support the claim of "massive wave of hate crimes against minorities".

In fact, I don't think there's been anything in this thread that supports the claim. I think that Emily's Cat has been generous in even allowing for a brief spike in such crimes.
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Old 13th December 2016, 12:02 PM   #308
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http://www.cbs5az.com/clip/12961114/...e-tempe-church

Yet another non threatening false flag fake attack.
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Old 13th December 2016, 12:14 PM   #309
theprestige
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
http://www.cbs5az.com/clip/12961114/...e-tempe-church

Yet another non threatening false flag fake attack.
Oh hey look, not a hate crime. Not a massive wave. What exactly do you imagine it has to do with the topic of this thread?
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Old 14th December 2016, 05:41 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
http://www.cbs5az.com/clip/12961114/...e-tempe-church

Yet another non threatening false flag fake attack.
That doesn't count because there are false reports as well.
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Old 14th December 2016, 07:09 AM   #311
theprestige
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That doesn't count because there are false reports as well.
Actually it doesn't count because it's not a hate crime. Or a crime. You can't have a crime wave without actual crimes.
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Old 14th December 2016, 07:16 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Actually it doesn't count because it's not a hate crime. Or a crime. You can't have a crime wave without actual crimes.
Trespassing isn't a crime?

Really they need to just shoot the guy, castle doctrine would cover it and his barging in and threatening them is a good excuse. Then no need to worry about if it was a crime or not.
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Old 14th December 2016, 09:13 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Trespassing isn't a crime?
He wasn't charged with trespassing. Actually, according to your source, Tempe police said he didn't commit any crime at all.

The more you push this "crime wave" narrative, the shakier it gets. I'm beginning to wonder if you're doing it on purpose.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:04 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
http://www.cbs5az.com/clip/12961114/...e-tempe-church

Yet another non threatening false flag fake attack.
Where is the 'false flag' part? How is it 'fake' if it actually happened?

You have every right to feel that it isn't a concern (to you), but where's the evidence for this being fabricated and/or concocted specifically to discredit hateful people?
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:12 PM   #315
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More like a ripple
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:17 PM   #316
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Where is the 'false flag' part? How is it 'fake' if it actually happened?

You have every right to feel that it isn't a concern (to you), but where's the evidence for this being fabricated and/or concocted specifically to discredit hateful people?
PT is being sarcastic. He really thinks this was a real hate crime.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:30 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
The post it note incident seriously doesn't qualify as a hate crime.
Thanks for addressing that one-off.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:35 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
PT is being sarcastic. He really thinks this was a real hate crime.
And the proper solution to that kind of harassment is to feel threatened and kill them. If only more people would carry guns in church.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:41 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And the proper solution to that kind of harassment is to feel threatened and kill them. If only more people would carry guns in church.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:54 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Far be it for me to defend Trump supporters, but this appears to be a gross exaggeration. There have been several incidents, not a massive wave.

It's incredbly misleading to post a list of links which reference the same few incidents. Weak.
I suspect it's also confirmation bias at play here. There are hate crimes committed every day, and have been for as long as there have been humans. For example, the news reports that someone wrote "Darkies back to Africa! Hail Trump!!!" on the wall of a black church. Is that because Trump was elected? Maybe. But I would suggest that the same person would have only wrote "Darkies back to Africa!" 2 years ago, and it would barely have made the news.

The topic needs research, not random data points.
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