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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 2nd February 2017, 01:22 PM   #361
Vixen
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I am not "sticking up" for this person. I am exposing your lies that she sent "pictures of Mez' naked torso in exchange for his following her on twitter. She adds hatefully, 'I'm sure Mez wouldn't mind'.

This is someone who has regularly attacked the Kerchers and sent the family pictures of vaseline jars and salacious references to 'brazilians'. "

In my post to you, I specifically highlighted the above and spoke of nothing else. As for the rest of your post and the tweets, they have nothing to do with anything I said. I never mentioned the Vaseline, attacks on the Kerchers, nor any other tweets concerning/to the Kerchers.

Therefore, I see no reason to withdraw my statement that the four claims I specifically addressed are lies.


1) I presented the picture that was sent and it does not, in fact, show a "naked torso". So that is a lie.

2) She did not add "hatefully" that "I'm sure Mez wouldn't mind". I presented the actual tweet that shows what she did say. So that is a lie.

3. She did not send the picture "in exchange for her following him on Twitter". It was not technically possible for her to PM him unless he did follow her. So that is a lie.

4. She did not send "salacious references to 'brazilians'". You have not provided any evidence of this. You would if you could. So this is a lie.

Perhaps you would now like to withdraw those four claims since you have failed to provide any evidence they are true?

LOL I don't have a copy of the 'brazilian' tweet, but many posters here will certainly remember it and the constant references to 'extreme sex' (all in her own mind, of course).
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Old 2nd February 2017, 01:32 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
True it was instigated to deal with witness intimidation by mafia dons. However, as it is written into the Italian Penal Code, it is within the law. This was to police eyes, drug-fuelled and some kind of a 'party', and had every reason to suspect serious organised crime, given Perugia's reputation as a druggie haven.
Sure, Vixen. Crimes that include drugs and parties are almost always connected to serious organized crime!

Put the shovel away. The hole you've dug is deep enough.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 01:47 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
LOL I don't have a copy of the 'brazilian' tweet, but many posters here will certainly remember it and the constant references to 'extreme sex' (all in her own mind, of course).
Of course you don't. If one existed, surely TJMK or PMF would have a copy. Those kind of things are collected which is why you were able to post the other tweets. What some may remember are claims that such a tweet exists, which is where I suspect you got the idea.

I never mentioned anything about "extreme sex" references. But they have nothing to do with the alleged "salacious references to brazilians".

So, do you concede that there was no "naked torso" picture sent, that the picture was not sent "in exchange for following" and that the woman never said "I'm sure Mez wouldn't mind"? Will you at least concede that you have no proof that the woman ever made "salacious references to brazilians"?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:10 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Not sure why you are sticking up for this person. Her behaviour is notorious. Before she was banned on twitter (and who then set up yet another twitter account, against twitter rules for banned posters).

Here attached are her direct attacks on the Kercher family, including one which is still up on Bruce Fischer's site, IIP, apparently. It is a reflection of that site and the supporters of FOA that they see nothing wrong with it.

That various members here state that the Kerchers deserve the abuse (some of this person's 'tweets' are too obscene for me to reproduce here) shows how twisted is the logic that the Kerchers have anything at all to do with the prosecution (rightful in the eyes of the first and second instance courts [trial/appeal]).

I should add, Amanda Knox herself was a follower of this person on twitter and no doubt this encouraged this disturbed person to be ever more daring, obscene and aggressive towards the Kerchers.


Which members here state that the Kerchers deserve abuse? Please expand or withdraw. Thank you.

(As a helpful hint, there's a fundamental difference between a) comment/criticism and b) abuse. But you know that already, right?)
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:15 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here is the one posted just a few days ago, that we were talking about and Stacyhs tried to play it down.

If Stacyhs is still trying to argue that this person was 'only going to send a very limited shot' - given the track record - well, we can all see that claim for the shabby facsimile of a bluff it is.
Yes, I provided this in my initial post to you. Notice that she even refers to the photo as "very censored" in the first tweet. She says she will send it to him. Not another one...the "very censored" one from Frank Sfarzo's site. I then provided that photo which clearly does NOT show a "naked torso".

If proving that your 4 claims were lies, then I guess that's "playing it down".

We can all see your continuing shoveling of the bovine feces for the shabby inability to admit you're wrong it is.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:16 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Of course you don't. If one existed, surely TJMK or PMF would have a copy. Those kind of things are collected which is why you were able to post the other tweets. What some may remember are claims that such a tweet exists, which is where I suspect you got the idea.

I never mentioned anything about "extreme sex" references. But they have nothing to do with the alleged "salacious references to brazilians".

So, do you concede that there was no "naked torso" picture sent, that the picture was not sent "in exchange for following" and that the woman never said "I'm sure Mez wouldn't mind"? Will you at least concede that you have no proof that the woman ever made "salacious references to brazilians"?

Yep, I do find it rather hard to get my head round the organised campaigns screengrabbing and carefully cataloguing "evidence" from the online debate. That's a level of obsession (and other issues.....) with which I'm neither familiar nor comfortable. But I guess if some people see an issue as some sort of "fight" - particularly if they have convinced themselves they are on some sort of moral crusade on behalf of a victim - then maybe it's not surprising to see a "campaign" run in a manner which is both militaristic and hugely administrative. So odd.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:19 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Of course you don't. If one existed, surely TJMK or PMF would have a copy. Those kind of things are collected which is why you were able to post the other tweets. What some may remember are claims that such a tweet exists, which is where I suspect you got the idea.

I never mentioned anything about "extreme sex" references. But they have nothing to do with the alleged "salacious references to brazilians".

So, do you concede that there was no "naked torso" picture sent, that the picture was not sent "in exchange for following" and that the woman never said "I'm sure Mez wouldn't mind"? Will you at least concede that you have no proof that the woman ever made "salacious references to brazilians"?

Here we go again. Ignore the thrust of my post and instead concentrate hard on trying to find a typo, working on the logical fallacy that this will cancel out the horrific abuse of the Kerchers by your good friend.

(Logical fallacy: disproportionality.)
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:24 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, I provided this in my initial post to you. Notice that she even refers to the photo as "very censored" in the first tweet. She says she will send it to him. Not another one...the "very censored" one from Frank Sfarzo's site. I then provided that photo which clearly does NOT show a "naked torso".

If proving that your 4 claims were lies, then I guess that's "playing it down".

We can all see your continuing shoveling of the bovine feces for the shabby inability to admit you're wrong it is.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3a1688d57f.png

I wonder what Freud would have said about your obsession with soil and bs?

Please read this post again. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post11699719 A reliable independent witness testifies (top tweet) that your chum posted naked pictures of the murder victim.

Don't try and wriggle out of it by posting pictures of potties and poo-poos (hey - I thought it was us Brits who find toilets hilarious).
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:27 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Sure, Vixen. Crimes that include drugs and parties are almost always connected to serious organized crime!

Put the shovel away. The hole you've dug is deep enough.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...397370d4d8.png
? You didn't know illegal drugs were associated with gobal organised crime ?

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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:29 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
And another. Perhaps Stacy would like to withdraw her claim it is all untrue.

Perhaps LoJo, acbytesla, Samson et al would like to comment on why they consider the Kerchers fair game, as they have stated.

1) Stacy did not claim "it is all untrue" - as she is repeatedly telling you. She was pointing out (correctly) that one particular florid claim of yours was in fact a falsehood. Do you really not see the difference?

2) As I've already just written, I want you to withdraw your nasty and incorrect straw man that I (and the others you mention) "consider the Kerchers fair game" and/or consider the Kerchers "worthy of abuse". I'll restate my position once again so you understand it: I refute your argument that the Kerchers are automatically totally immune from any criticism, and I argue that it's perfectly fair to comment upon - and criticise, if reasonable - public pronouncements from the Kerchers. To expand, if one or more members of the Kercher family chooses to give interviews or make any other public statement, then IMO it's entirely reasonable for anyone to analyse and comment upon those public pronouncements; further, if any of those public pronouncements contain opinions which might be considered unfair/provocative/untrue, then IMO it's perfectly reasonable for those opinions to be subjected to criticism.

You'll notice, perhaps, that my position is fundamentally different from the position you've unpleasantly and incorrectly attributed to me in your straw man. You've incorrectly implied that I endorse the sending of abusive messages to the Kerchers, and that I consider abuse of the Kerchers in any form to be acceptable.

So, please withdraw your incorrect, personalised, straw man insult. And don't do it again. Thank you.

Last edited by LondonJohn; 2nd February 2017 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:33 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here we go again. Ignore the thrust of my post and instead concentrate hard on trying to find a typo, working on the logical fallacy that this will cancel out the horrific abuse of the Kerchers by your good friend.

(Logical fallacy: disproportionality.)

Erm. Do you know the difference between

1) a typo (the mistaken typing of (usually) a single letter/character within a word or (sometimes) a single word within a sentence)

and

2) a false statement?

Because, in this matter, we are talking about (2) and not (1)........
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:38 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
? You didn't know illegal drugs were associated with gobal organised crime ?


Yes, of course she knows that. But she knows that illegal drugs are associated with global organised crime at the growing, transportation, distribution and top-line sales levels. She knows that at a street sales level and a consumption level (the only levels which could have any reasonable association with this crime), global organised crime has absolutely nothing to do with it (i.e. on a direct contact basis).

You didn't know that?


Last edited by LondonJohn; 2nd February 2017 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:47 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
1) Stacy did not claim "it is all untrue" - as she is repeatedly telling you. She was pointing out (correctly) that one particular florid claim of yours was in fact a falsehood. Do you really not see the difference?

2) As I've already just written, I want you to withdraw your nasty and incorrect straw man that I (and the others you mention) "consider the Kerchers fair game" and/or consider the Kerchers "worthy of abuse". I'll restate my position once again so you understand it: I refute your argument that the Kerchers are automatically totally immune from any criticism, and I argue that it's perfectly fair to comment upon - and criticise, if reasonable - public pronouncements from the Kerchers. To expand, if one or more members of the Kercher family chooses to give interviews or make any other public statement, then IMO it's entirely reasonable for anyone to analyse and comment upon those public pronouncements; further, if any of those public pronouncements contain opinions which might be considered unfair/provocative/untrue, then IMO it's perfectly reasonable for those opinions to be subjected to criticism.

You'll notice, perhaps, that my position is fundamentally different from the position you've unpleasantly and incorrectly attributed to me in your straw man. You've incorrectly implied that I endorse the sending of abusive messages to the Kerchers, and that I consider abuse of the Kerchers in any form to be acceptable.

So, please withdraw your incorrect, personalised, straw man insult. And don't do it again. Thank you.

Oh please. Some hack rang up John Kercher and asked for his comment on Raff's current compo hearing. John replied, 'I wish they would go away', or words to that effect.

You did, Lojo, you did indeed say that made him fair game for you and your pals to hurl abuse at him, when I commented that the Kerchers should be off-limits.

They have never been anything but unassuming, dignified and polite. However, even if John were to dance a jig with a cat and a fiddle, they should still be allowed their space to rail, rail against the dying of the light (apologies Dylan Thomas).
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:48 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Yes, of course she knows that. But she knows that illegal drugs are associated with global organised crime at the growing, transportation, distribution and top-line sales levels. She knows that at a street sales level and a consumption level (the only levels which could have any reasonable association with this crime), global organised crime has absolutely nothing to do with it (i.e. on a direct contact basis).

You didn't know that?

You're Stacy's spokesperson now...?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 02:50 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here we go again. Ignore the thrust of my post and instead concentrate hard on trying to find a typo, working on the logical fallacy that this will cancel out the horrific abuse of the Kerchers by your good friend.

(Logical fallacy: disproportionality.)
I've taken a few minutes to respond as it's difficult to type when I can't see the monitor through the tears of laughter. A "typo"? Exactly what typo would that be? Please identify it.

"Your good friend"? Speaking of logical fallacies....

The "thrust" of your post is an attempt to get out of addressing the fact that you cannot prove any of the FOUR false claims I identified.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:03 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I wonder what Freud would have said about your obsession with soil and bs?

Please read this post again. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post11699719 A reliable independent witness testifies (top tweet) that your chum posted naked pictures of the murder victim.

Don't try and wriggle out of it by posting pictures of potties and poo-poos (hey - I thought it was us Brits who find toilets hilarious).
Well, when we're practically wading in it, it's rather difficult to ignore. Might as well make fun of it.

You were the one who brought up the Vaseline, naked torso, brazilians, etc., not I.
I wonder what Freud would have said about your obsession with that?

"A reliable independent witness" whose identity is completely blacked out and who provided no evidence of it? Now, just why would I find that lacking?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:08 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Yes, of course she knows that. But she knows that illegal drugs are associated with global organised crime at the growing, transportation, distribution and top-line sales levels. She knows that at a street sales level and a consumption level (the only levels which could have any reasonable association with this crime), global organised crime has absolutely nothing to do with it (i.e. on a direct contact basis).

You didn't know that?

Anyone want to bet Vixen will soon claim there were signs they were linked to a terror cell? There really doesn't seem to be any limits to her flights of fancy.

I do have to give Vixen credit, however, for her dogged determination to defend an indefensible position. She is not like other PGP who, when boxed into a corner, simply disappear for a month or so hoping people will forget.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:08 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You're Stacy's spokesperson now...?
I hereby give LJ permission to speak for me when it's blindingly obvious what my answer (or any logical person's answer) would be. As it was in this case.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:11 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Yes, of course she knows that. But she knows that illegal drugs are associated with global organised crime at the growing, transportation, distribution and top-line sales levels. She knows that at a street sales level and a consumption level (the only levels which could have any reasonable association with this crime), global organised crime has absolutely nothing to do with it (i.e. on a direct contact basis).

You didn't know that?

When we're arguing with the PGP we have to remind ourselves these are people one misremembered dinner and sink DNA swab away from believing Ashley Olsen was killed by her friend Amy, Nicole Brown Simpson was killed by her friend Cora Fishman, Denise Naslund was killed by her friend Nancy Bettema. All of these cases have something in common: the murders are already solved and the (male) killer is known by the ample evidence they left committing the crime and not a shred of evidence connects these random friends with the respective killers, who for the record are Tidiane Diaw, OJ Simpson, and Ted Bundy. But in the PGP's mind, all three of these famous killers are one underwear shopping tabloid story away from becoming merely pawn accomplices to the real (invisible) mastermind they didn't know and perhaps couldn't even speak the same language as, and need to be released on short sentences - as exactly happened with Rudy Guede in connection with the murder of Meredith Kercher.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:12 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh please. Some hack rang up John Kercher and asked for his comment on Raff's current compo hearing. John replied, 'I wish they would go away', or words to that effect.

You did, Lojo, you did indeed say that made him fair game for you and your pals to hurl abuse at him, when I commented that the Kerchers should be off-limits.

They have never been anything but unassuming, dignified and polite. However, even if John were to dance a jig with a cat and a fiddle, they should still be allowed their space to rail, rail against the dying of the light (apologies Dylan Thomas).

Right.

Show me where I said (or even implied) that John Kercher's interview comments "made him fair game for me and my pals to hurl abuse at him"

Oh, what's that? You can't. Disgusting.

Let me tell you one last time: you argued that the Kercher family were automatically immune from any type of criticism. I refuted that argument. I stated - very clearly and explicitly - that IMO if the Kerchers made public statements then those statements were worthy of consideration, comment, and criticism if they contained opinions which might reasonably be deemed unfair, untrue, misleading and so on. That is TOTALLY different from me arguing that the Kerchers were "worthy of abuse". Shame on you. Cease, desist and apologise.

By the way, they're not "my pals" either. They are people who happen to share a broadly similar opinion to me on one particular issue. So don't say things like that again either. OK.

Your "arguments" are a total and utter disgrace, and an outrageous (and very deliberate) misrepresentation of the opinions/positions of me and others here. Truly horrible.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:20 PM   #381
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And, by the way, the paucity of the argument that the Kercher family should be allowed to say whatever they like without anyone being able to criticise them is perfectly illustrated by the reductio ad absurdum which I employed the other day: suppose John Kercher were, last week, to have made a public statement which read "I know Knox and Sollecito participated in murdering my daughter - they are subhuman scum and they deserve to rot in hell."

Should such a (hypothetical) statement from John Kercher be immune from any criticism? Vixen? Vixen? Bueller? Anyone.....?


(In the same way, but obviously on a far, far lesser scale, I believe that the statement John Kercher actually did make last week - that "They've been set free - so why keep going on (about it)?" - was in itself worthy of comment and a modicum of criticism, for reasons that I've already set out in other posts......)
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:23 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Right.

Show me where I said (or even implied) that John Kercher's interview comments "made him fair game for me and my pals to hurl abuse at him"

Oh, what's that? You can't. Disgusting.

Let me tell you one last time: you argued that the Kercher family were automatically immune from any type of criticism. I refuted that argument. I stated - very clearly and explicitly - that IMO if the Kerchers made public statements then those statements were worthy of consideration, comment, and criticism if they contained opinions which might reasonably be deemed unfair, untrue, misleading and so on. That is TOTALLY different from me arguing that the Kerchers were "worthy of abuse". Shame on you. Cease, desist and apologise.

By the way, they're not "my pals" either. They are people who happen to share a broadly similar opinion to me on one particular issue. So don't say things like that again either. OK.

Your "arguments" are a total and utter disgrace, and an outrageous (and very deliberate) misrepresentation of the opinions/positions of me and others here. Truly horrible.
Come now, LJ! "you did indeed say that made him fair game for you and your pals to hurl abuse at him" is either a typo or you know what she "meant".
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:35 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Well, when we're practically wading in it, it's rather difficult to ignore. Might as well make fun of it.

You were the one who brought up the Vaseline, naked torso, brazilians, etc., not I.
I wonder what Freud would have said about your obsession with that?

"A reliable independent witness" whose identity is completely blacked out and who provided no evidence of it? Now, just why would I find that lacking?
Sorry? Are you suggesting I invade their privacy?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:36 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Anyone want to bet Vixen will soon claim there were signs they were linked to a terror cell? There really doesn't seem to be any limits to her flights of fancy.

I do have to give Vixen credit, however, for her dogged determination to defend an indefensible position. She is not like other PGP who, when boxed into a corner, simply disappear for a month or so hoping people will forget.
Heh, it's called, 'sisu'.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:41 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Come now, LJ! "you did indeed say that made him fair game for you and your pals to hurl abuse at him" is either a typo or you know what she "meant".

Of course!! I hadn't thought of that! Obviously the typo here was the slip on the keyboard resulting in the words "...for you and your pals to hurl abuse at him" to be typed, instead of the intended words "...for you and others who hold a pro-innocence or pro-acquittal position to criticise his statements if you felt that he had said something that was either unfair, untrue or misleading".

Now it all makes sense! I can't believe I hadn't realised it was nothing more than a simple typo all along!!! Sorry, Vixen - I can see it was nothing more than an honest slip at the keyboard. Glad that's all sorted out


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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:41 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Right.

Show me where I said (or even implied) that John Kercher's interview comments "made him fair game for me and my pals to hurl abuse at him"

Oh, what's that? You can't. Disgusting.

Let me tell you one last time: you argued that the Kercher family were automatically immune from any type of criticism. I refuted that argument. I stated - very clearly and explicitly - that IMO if the Kerchers made public statements then those statements were worthy of consideration, comment, and criticism if they contained opinions which might reasonably be deemed unfair, untrue, misleading and so on. That is TOTALLY different from me arguing that the Kerchers were "worthy of abuse". Shame on you. Cease, desist and apologise.

By the way, they're not "my pals" either. They are people who happen to share a broadly similar opinion to me on one particular issue. So don't say things like that again either. OK.

Your "arguments" are a total and utter disgrace, and an outrageous (and very deliberate) misrepresentation of the opinions/positions of me and others here. Truly horrible.

I quite understand your desire to desperately distance yourself from Stacy's chum. It is a pity you cannot come out and condemn her appalling and unwarranted attacks on the family members of a murder victim, and as condoned by Amanda.


You can judge a man by his actions, or lack thereof.
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Last edited by Vixen; 2nd February 2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:42 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Heh, it's called, 'sisu'.

The English language has other, far more derogatory and unflattering, names for it......

(All of which apply in this instance)
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:44 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I quite understand your desire to desperately distance yourself from Stacy's chum. It is a pity you cannot come out and condemn her appalling and unwarranted attacks on the father of a murder victim, and as condoned by Amanda.


You can judge a man by his actions, or lack thereof.

Nice attempt at moving the goalposts. Won't wash, though.

Apologise and retract for falsely stating that I condoned abuse towards the Kerchers.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:44 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sorry? Are you suggesting I invade their privacy?
Wow... how you inferred that is mind boggling. I'll spell it out for you: you claim this "witness" is "reliable" and "independent". Since I have no idea who this person is as the name is blacked out, it's impossible to judge whether or not s/he is, indeed, either reliable or independent. Your idea of reliable and independent may be 180 degrees from mine. Quintavalle and Curatolo come to mind.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:45 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
And, by the way, the paucity of the argument that the Kercher family should be allowed to say whatever they like without anyone being able to criticise them is perfectly illustrated by the reductio ad absurdum which I employed the other day: suppose John Kercher were, last week, to have made a public statement which read "I know Knox and Sollecito participated in murdering my daughter - they are subhuman scum and they deserve to rot in hell."

Should such a (hypothetical) statement from John Kercher be immune from any criticism? Vixen? Vixen? Bueller? Anyone.....?


(In the same way, but obviously on a far, far lesser scale, I believe that the statement John Kercher actually did make last week - that "They've been set free - so why keep going on (about it)?" - was in itself worthy of comment and a modicum of criticism, for reasons that I've already set out in other posts......)


If his uncle had tits he would be his aunt ... oh never mind. You are unable to comprehend that 'if' and 'suppose' is hardly valid logic.

You start with a statement (true) he is the father of a murder victim and is often asked for a comment by the press and finish with an overblown typically prolix 'what-if' (i.e., untrue) conclusion.


He hasn't and he wouldn't so it's a stupid argument.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:47 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If his uncle had tits he would be his aunt ... oh never mind. You are unable to comprehend that 'if' and 'suppose' is hardly valid logic.

You start with a statement (true) he is the father of a murder victim and is often asked for a comment by the press and finish with an overblown typically prolix 'what-if' (i.e., untrue) conclusion.


He hasn't and he wouldn't so it's a stupid argument.

You really can't understand that I've employed a rhetorical device to illustrate precisely why it's wrong to argue that the Kerchers should have blanket immunity from any and all criticism?

Oh well............
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:48 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Nice attempt at moving the goalposts. Won't wash, though.

Apologise and retract for falsely stating that I condoned abuse towards the Kerchers.

I consider your comments about the Kerchers grossly offensive to the Kercher family, so there will not be any retraction or apology from me in this.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:48 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I quite understand your desire to desperately distance yourself from Stacy's chum. It is a pity you cannot come out and condemn her appalling and unwarranted attacks on the father of a murder victim, and as condoned by Amanda.


You can judge a man by his actions, or lack thereof.
And there you go again. I am not her "chum". Please stop posting "alternative facts" just because you think they somehow strengthen your position. They don't.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:50 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I consider your comments about the Kerchers grossly offensive to the Kercher family, so there will not be any retraction or apology from me in this.

What part of my comments about the Kerchers do you find "grossly offensive"? I want you to point me towards the exact comments of mine that fit this criterion in your view.

Because I find these nasty little assertions of yours to be grossly offensive.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:52 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I quite understand your desire to desperately distance yourself from Stacy's chum. It is a pity you cannot come out and condemn her appalling and unwarranted attacks on the family members of a murder victim, and as condoned by Amanda.


You can judge a man by his actions, or lack thereof.
You can judge a woman by her actions, or lack thereof. I suggest you retract the lie you posted about LJ or be judged by your lack of action.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:53 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
You really can't understand that I've employed a rhetorical device to illustrate precisely why it's wrong to argue that the Kerchers should have blanket immunity from any and all criticism?

Oh well............
The Kerchers have always behaved in an exemplary way.

Your assertion, oh but what if they do XYZ or say ABC, is pie in the sky.

Whoops! There goes another rubber tree plant.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:53 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And there you go again. I am not her "chum". Please stop posting "alternative facts" just because you think they somehow strengthen your position. They don't.

I find Vixen's comments about certain pro-guilt commentators, coupled with the repeated creation of strawman "arguments" and attempts to shift goalposts, to be grossly offensive. And absolute anathema to the idea of debating in good faith.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:56 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And there you go again. I am not her "chum". Please stop posting "alternative facts" just because you think they somehow strengthen your position. They don't.
You claimed to know the background story to her offer to send autopsy pics and to understand the reasoning behind it. You even provided a picture which you claim was what she was really talking about. Busted! You are now claiming you were only 'supposing'.


Que sera sera.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 03:58 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I find Vixen's comments about certain pro-guilt commentators, coupled with the repeated creation of strawman "arguments" and attempts to shift goalposts, to be grossly offensive. And absolute anathema to the idea of debating in good faith.
It's like trying to debate Teflon. Nothing sticks.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:05 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The Kerchers have always behaved in an exemplary way.

Your assertion, oh but what if they do XYZ or say ABC, is pie in the sky.

Whoops! There goes another rubber tree plant.

Seriously. Do you really not understand the point here?

I'll try one last time. Slowly.

You stated that the Kerchers should, in effect, be automatically immune from any and all criticism.

I pointed out how wrong that position is, since the Kerchers could well make statements which were, for example, unnecessarily hurtful to others - and which therefore would be justifiably open to criticism.

I used a reductio ad absurdum to illustrate this. I'm sorry you don't seem to understand the concept of reductio ad absurdum.

But if you prefer we go back to the actual statements from the Kerchers, let's take the actual statement made by John Kercher last week. Remember, he stated:

"What fascinates me is why they (Knox and Sollecito) keep going on about it. They've been let free - so why keep going on?"


In my opinion, this statement of John Kercher's from last week absolutely IS justifiably open to criticism. He's clearly arguing that Knox and Sollecito should in some way feel that being set free is "good enough" and that they should never again feel the need/wish to talk about their experiences in respect of the murder and their trials process. But both Knox and Sollecito have important remnants of this case still ongoing - and as such they are fully justified in carrying on their campaigns to clear their names and gain rightful compensation. And as part of that, the media still harbours an interest in these residual legal matters, and wishes to get the participation of Sollecito (in this particular instance, vis-a-vis the compensation hearing) and Knox. And Sollecito and Knox are fully justified in talking to the media under such circumstances.

So I argue that even John Kercher's statement from last week illustrates, in and of itself, the paucity of the claim that "the Kerchers should be immune from any and all criticism, no matter what".
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