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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:40 PM   #321
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
It might well do. It's the kind of name anarchists go for.
Evidence?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:42 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Yeah, technically Communists are Anarchists (the theory is that Communism is the elimination of government enforcement, it's people self-organizing to work together in their own best interests).
To be fair:

Black Bloc
Anarcho-(any of 50 variations here)
Communist

None of these labels are mutually exclusive, but neither are they merely synonyms for one another.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 2nd February 2017 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:44 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
And? Do you have some evidence for your claim that these are anarchists?
The duck test. The look, the walk and the sound.

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Evidence that anarchists aren't left-wing?
I imagine your evidence that they are is that you don't like them. But, as I've pointed out, everybody on the left-right spectrum hates anarchists.

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Who exactly is left-wing according to you?
Somebody on the left-right spectrum at the very least. Anarchists don't qualify, for obvious reasons. They lie off the main sequence, so to speak.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:45 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Except that I did not refer to them as a group in that post. In fact that post was a clear refutation of your unsupported tales about characteristics you claim are held by people who employ black bloc tactics.
Say, you managed to actually get through a post without resorting to Black Bloc posting tactics.

Now, as to the "substance" of that post, the characteristic of the people who use Black Bloc tactics is they use *********** Black Bloc tactics, which are stupid, violent and totally unproductive, notwithstanding what a bunch of teachers in freaking Brazil think about how "cute" they are.

Now the ones I have had to deal with also smell bad and steal other protesters food, as I have explained.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:46 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Evidence?
Have you spent any time with anarchists? I'm starting to think not.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:49 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Actually, that's what we have in the US as well - and of course, college students that are overly strident about whatever.

But in day-to-day, it's mostly twitter trolls spewing racism, misogyny, and anti-semitism from what I can see. Still not much at the personal level, offline.

ETA: as far as these Black Bloc idiots go, I learned of them (here in Maryland!) when they showed up at the Sean Bell protests back in 2009 and started trashing things. The regular protestors, of course, hated them. IOW, the idea that this is something new for the Trump Era is a joke.
Here in Northern California,the Black Bloc in Berkeley has been notorious ever since they pretty much derailed the Occupy movement with their antics. Berserkly is a natural habitat for them.
The vast majority of Progressives and other Lefties in California distance themselves from the "Movement" in Berkeley. In what other city is there a book store with a huge picture of Stalin in the front window?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:52 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Have you spent any time with anarchists? I'm starting to think not.
One would imagine that a person of the level of conviction he is so desperately attempting to portray would be out there right now showing us how to overthrow fascists.

Instead here he is, doing his level best to marry the idea of resisting oppressive government policies with behavior that the vast majority of the public find to be entirely indefensible at best, if not outright threatening to both their immediate and long term physical safety.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:53 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Well, the liberal definition of intolerance is apparently proposing policies that they disagree with.
This bears absolutely no ressemblance to anything I've said. No wonder you think I'm inconsistent.

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So I disagree that being intolerant towards blacks means you won't rent them an apartment.
What are you on about? Do you even know what "intolerance" means?

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Actually, you used the word "racist" not intolerance. Racism is the belief that certain large groups of people, identifiable by superficial visual traits like skin color, facial shape, hair consistency or whatnot, have other genetically determined traits (and possibly culturally derived traits) which are inferior, on average, to those of one's preferred genetic group.
That sounds like someone that would be intolerant of, say, blacks.

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By itself, racism is a belief system. Not a mode of behavior, although it's possible to engage in racist behavior, which I think is discriminating unfairly based on race.
Now you're just engaging in ridicule. Jihadism is a belief system, not a mode of behaviour, so I guess we can't say that jihadists are likely to resort to violence.

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Ironically, I think most white liberals are racist in that they think certain minorities are incapable of succeeding without radical help from the government.
Off-topic.

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Your arguments are often not consistent, but I don't want to be goaded into a Rule 12 violation.
Of all the dishonest things. You're the one who brought it up, and now that you're asked to support this claim you squirm away. You've never called me inconsistent before, so I assume that you said that as a "clever" way to avoid addressing what I actually said about incompatible world-views, and that you never planned on putting your money where your mouth is.

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Many SJWs insist that white people have special unearned privileges. Do you agree with that?
Depends where and when, but this isn't on topic.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:54 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
The duck test. The look, the walk and the sound.
So no evidence then?

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I imagine your evidence that they are is that you don't like them.
No, it's just that they generally are, as anyone can simply look up.

Quote:
But, as I've pointed out, everybody on the left-right spectrum hates anarchists.
You've asserted it at least.

Quote:
Somebody on the left-right spectrum at the very least. Anarchists don't qualify, for obvious reasons. They lie off the main sequence, so to speak.
So you keep asserting. You've still failed to give an example of people you'd consider "left-wing" and why they would disagree with a "no platform" position.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:55 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Again: I'm seeing a concerning lack of imagination on the ISF...

Democratic voters can want to turn out in greater numbers, but if they've been denied voter registration ("New law! No Ex-felons voting. New law! Drug testing for voters in Inner Cities!"), have 20 hour lineups that extend beyond a "state of emergency" curfew... And that's if they're in the eligible demographic... I would not be surprised by deportations or blanket citizenship revocations. DREAMers and recent immigrants look like a logical target for deportation, much less disenfranchisement.

Enthusiasm and popular support may not translate into sufficient votes to ensure a Republican defeat.
Are felons, drug addicts and illegal immigrants a significant portion of Democratic voters?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 04:56 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
ETA: as far as these Black Bloc idiots go, I learned of them (here in Maryland!) when they showed up at the Sean Bell protests back in 2009 and started trashing things. The regular protestors, of course, hated them. IOW, the idea that this is something new for the Trump Era is a joke.
Adolescent narcissim is ever-present, and that's the bulk of the anarchist crowd at any particular time, in my experience.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:02 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Adolescent narcissim is ever-present, and that's the bulk of the anarchist crowd at any particular time, in my experience.
More unsupported assertions. Nice ageism btw.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:05 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
<snip>
Of all the dishonest things. You're the one who brought it up, and now that you're asked to support this claim you squirm away. You've never called me inconsistent before, so I assume that you said that as a "clever" way to avoid addressing what I actually said about incompatible world-views, and that you never planned on putting your money where your mouth is.
This matches my experience with he and his ilk to a tee.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:05 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
So no evidence then?
All the evidence of your lying eyes. Not proof to your satisfaction, but this is poor sophism.

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No, it's just that they generally are, as anyone can simply look up.
No, they generally aren't, as they'll tell you if you ask them. Their class war isn't against any particular class, it's against the very concept of class.

Quote:
You've asserted it at least.
Repeatedly.

Quote:
So you keep asserting. You've still failed to give an example of people you'd consider "left-wing" and why they would disagree with a "no platform" position.
The subject is anarchists, who I don't consider left-wing. It's irrelevant who I do so consider.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:06 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Are felons, drug addicts and illegal immigrants a significant portion of Democratic voters?
Someone around here will chime in soon.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:07 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The vast majority of Progressives and other Lefties in California distance themselves from the "Movement" in Berkeley.
What lefties in particular?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:08 PM   #337
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Note that our interest waned in entertaining CM over in the other thread and now that we are all here, he has to follow along and make this entire thread about himself now, as well.

Another classic hallmark of Black Bloc: show up to someone else's party and demand the music change to what they want.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:11 PM   #338
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Antichrists ruin everything.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:14 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
All the evidence of your lying eyes. Not proof to your satisfaction, but this is poor sophism.
What evidence? The mere fact of having employed a black bloc tactic? Plenty of non-anarchist leftists do that as well.

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No, they generally aren't, as they'll tell you if you ask them.
They seem to generally consider themselves left-wing if you ask them.

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Their class war isn't against any particular class, it's against the very concept of class.
And? So are, for one, Marxists. Are they then not on the left either?

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The subject is anarchists, who I don't consider left-wing. It's irrelevant who I do so consider.
Sure it is. What about Marxists, do you consider them on the left? What about socialists in general?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:16 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Note that our interest waned in entertaining CM over in the other thread and now that we are all here, he has to follow along and make this entire thread about himself now, as well.

Another classic hallmark of Black Bloc: show up to someone else's party and demand the music change to what they want.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:17 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Are felons, drug addicts and illegal immigrants a significant portion of Democratic voters?
It doesn't have to be significant to simply 'add up' to a decisive critical mass.

Regarding Felons - I was saying 'ex felons' - they can vote today, and make up about 25% of the black population. This seems like a very attractive demographic for white supremacists to decree unworthy of enfranchisement. Easy sell.

Regarding drug addicts - drug testing will catch a hundred casual users for every 'addict'. Depending on the test, there may be a high false positive rate. So: if policy is to administer it to 'suspicious' would be voters ("anybody who looks lefty"), if it has a 5% false positive rate, that will successfully disenfranchise 5% of that demographic. So many districts are <1% margin, this could be a game changer. And: it's an easy sell.

Regarding DREAMers - they represent a voting demographic when they come of age to apply for citizenship. Deporting them now slows the growth of that demographic and is another easy sell.


ETA: and also regarding DREAMers - nullifying the DREAM Act is another way to do it, but deportation is more tempting, because then they won't have anchor babies.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:19 PM   #342
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:26 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Well, I see it like this. I hope this isn't too long-winded for you:

:

Don't you agree?

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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:28 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Oh, that's good.

I was seriously wondering if I was going to get control of myself before I blacked out from lack of oxygen or not.

Damn that's good.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:37 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
It doesn't have to be significant to simply 'add up' to a decisive critical mass.

Regarding Felons - I was saying 'ex felons' - they can vote today, and make up about 25% of the black population. This seems like a very attractive demographic for white supremacists to decree unworthy of enfranchisement. Easy sell.

Regarding drug addicts - drug testing will catch a hundred casual users for every 'addict'. Depending on the test, there may be a high false positive rate. So: if policy is to administer it to 'suspicious' would be voters ("anybody who looks lefty"), if it has a 5% false positive rate, that will successfully disenfranchise 5% of that demographic. So many districts are <1% margin, this could be a game changer. And: it's an easy sell.

Regarding DREAMers - they represent a voting demographic when they come of age to apply for citizenship. Deporting them now slows the growth of that demographic and is another easy sell.


ETA: and also regarding DREAMers - nullifying the DREAM Act is another way to do it, but deportation is more tempting, because then they won't have anchor babies.
I believe in almost universal suffrage. We should not deny the right to vote to any US citizen above the age of 18 including ex-felons or even convicts in prison. I do believe that convicts should vote in the election where they resided in before they were incarcerated as opposed to the community where the prison is at though. This idea that just because someone may have broken the law that they should be deprived of their voice is wrong in my book.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:52 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
as far as these Black Bloc idiots go, I learned of them (here in Maryland!) when they showed up at the Sean Bell protests back in 2009 and started trashing things. The regular protestors, of course, hated them. IOW, the idea that this is something new for the Trump Era is a joke.
As far as liberal middle-class idiots go, they never let a chance go to waste to show off their privilege and arrogance.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:17 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
As far as liberal middle-class idiots go, they never let a chance go to waste to show off their privilege and arrogance.
I align with caveman on almost nothing.

But on this we can find common ground.

I have yet to meet a black bloc that was less than 90% young adult white males from the suburbs who wouldn't know oppression if it crushed their throat with a boot stomp.

After a hard day of putting their sacred lives and honor on the line in the grand struggle to 'liberate the public spaces', they will pile into their hand-me-down mid-size luxury sedans their parents gave them, go back to loft condos in gentrified neighborhoods (they moved their for 'the diverse culture' that they displaced upon arriving in it) paid for with mommy and daddy's trust fund money and complain about how 'ungrateful' the other protesters were to them.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:32 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
the real greatest threat to the US is the hysterical intolerance and dogmatism of the progressive left.
This is a God-given signal! If this fire, as I believe, turns out to be the handiwork of Communists, then there is nothing that shall stop us now crushing out this murder pest with an iron fist.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:04 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I have yet to meet a black bloc that was less than 90% young adult white males from the suburbs who wouldn't know oppression if it crushed their throat with a boot stomp.

After a hard day of putting their sacred lives and honor on the line in the grand struggle to 'liberate the public spaces', they will pile into their hand-me-down mid-size luxury sedans their parents gave them, go back to loft condos in gentrified neighborhoods (they moved their for 'the diverse culture' that they displaced upon arriving in it) paid for with mommy and daddy's trust fund money and complain about how 'ungrateful' the other protesters were to them.


Do you have evidence or just an over-active right-wing imagination?
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"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by caveman1917; 2nd February 2017 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:14 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post


Do you have evidence or just an over-active right-wing imagination?
Delphic Oracle has a "right wing imagination"?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:21 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Delphic Oracle has a "right wing imagination"?
Maybe he meant right brain? Isn't that the emotional/intuitive/artistic side? Left-handed, left wing?

**** if i can comprehend half the **** he says.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:26 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Agreed. Progressive politicians need to reach out to these misguided individuals and harness their rage for the struggle to come. Properly deployed, these kinds of actions can do wonders for a resistance movement.
Yeah. that'll work.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:40 PM   #353
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Delphic Oracle has a "right wing imagination"?
Well there doesn't seem to be any evidence for this, and it's one of those standard right-wing myths about black blocs/anarchists being perpetuated.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:55 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Well there doesn't seem to be any evidence for this, and it's one of those standard right-wing myths about black blocs/anarchists being perpetuated.
"so-called" right wing you mean?

Jeepers, for someone who got upset when people use the Black Bloc label on Black Bloc idiots, you certainly produce a lot of labels on your personal iPhone.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:58 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Well, you're the first anti-Milo poster in the thread to express such a sentiment. Even Puppycow, who is one of the most thoughtful and civil posters here, only expressed disapproval of the riot in terms of its practical effect rather than whether or not it was morally acceptable.
Of course it's not morally acceptable either, and I thought I implied that, but maybe I wasn't explicit enough. Violence, except in self-defense, and vandalism is always wrong.



I will point out that it may be that the ones doing the violent acts were not UC Berkley students, but these "Black Bloc" anarchist thugs. Peaceful protesters should be wary of these interlopers, as they can turn an otherwise peaceful protest into a riot, which discredits the protesters. They are not your allies.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:10 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I will point out that it may be that the ones doing the violent acts were not UC Berkley students, but these "Black Bloc" anarchist thugs. Peaceful protesters should be wary of these interlopers, as they can turn an otherwise peaceful protest into a riot, which discredits the protesters. They are not your allies.
Protesters should be wary of people who give this sort of "advice". They are not your allies. It's called the Stonewall riots after all and not the Stonewall candlelight vigils, and for a reason.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:11 PM   #357
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My favorite bunch so far got a group of activists to go along on a direct action that wasn't approved by the general assembly. They were going to 'reclaim' an old, abandoned highway/public works building to turn it into a community shelter/kitchen/library. Well, first of all, they didn't do their homework. Behind the building was another state property that had a guard post. So police were basically on the scene in minutes. Worse yet, the press was seconds behind that so the cameras record a bunch of people basically breaking into a building. There was no time to get set up and try to convince them to 'see what we're doing to the place.'

Even more fun, several weeks prior one of the antifa had weaseled their way onto the legal defense working group. Our resident anarchist contingent started making a stink about the camp being in a place the police 'approved for us' (takes a lot of effort to get a working understanding in place, let me tell you) and claimed they were going to set up at one of the homeless camps along the slopes of the hill on the outskirts of the downtown area. Fast forward again to the direct action. The legal working group needed to ask the general assembly for permission to devote funds to those arrested at the action (because it had not been approved). The GA did so. They go to get the funds and find the account nearly empty. Someone had racked up thousands of dollars on 2 hotel rooms (1 suite-of-rooms and 1 double queen room) for 9 days. We're not talking Residence Inn, either. We couldn't bail them out. Some were from out of town. This is another problem with actions that are not approved, there wasn't a serious discussion about risks (and they figured they were covered for bail, anyways). We never saw our little anarchist friend on the legal fund again.

Anyone want to take some guesses here?

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 2nd February 2017 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:15 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Protesters should be wary of people who give this sort of "advice". They are not your allies. It's called the Stonewall riots after all and not the Stonewall candlelight vigils, and for a reason.
Are you LGBT?

If not, are you in any demographic group targeted for abuse up to and including murder for how you were born?

Because I'd hate to think you just used someone else's struggle as an argument to excuse your behavior.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:17 PM   #359
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
My favorite bunch so far got a group of activists to go along on a direct action that wasn't approved by the general assembly. They were going to 'reclaim' an old, abandoned highway/public works building to turn it into a community shelter/kitchen/library. Well, first of all, they didn't do their homework. Behind the building was another state property that had a guard post. So police were basically on the scene in minutes. Worse yet, the press was seconds behind that so the cameras record a bunch of people basically breaking into a building. There was no time to get set up and try to convince them to 'see what we're doing to the place.'

Even more fun, several weeks prior one of the antifa had weaseled their way onto the legal defense working group. Our resident anarchist contingent started making a stink about the camp being in a place the police 'approved for us' (takes a lot of effort to get a working understanding in place, let me tell you) and claimed they were going to set up at one of the homeless camps along the slopes of the hill on the outskirts of the downtown area. Fast forward again to the direct action. The legal working group needed to ask the general assembly for permission to devote funds to those arrested at the action (because it had not been approved). The GA did so. They go to get the funds and find the account empty nearly empty. Someone had racked up thousands of dollars on 2 hotel rooms (1 suite-of-rooms and 1 double queen room) for 9 days. We're not talking Residence Inn, either. We couldn't bail them out. Some were from out of town. This is another problem with actions that are not approved, there wasn't a serious discussion about risks (and they figured they were covered for bail, anyways). We never saw our little anarchist friend on the legal fund again.

Anyone want to take some guesses here?
More unsupported tales, who would've guessed.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:22 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Are you LGBT?

If not, are you in any demographic group targeted for abuse up to and including murder for how you were born?

Because I'd hate to think you just used someone else's struggle as an argument to excuse your behavior.
I'm sure you'd hate to think that. Not sure why you think the Stonewall riots are an argument to "excuse" my posting behaviour, or why my posting behaviour would require an "excuse". They are a good argument against liberal ******** though.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by caveman1917; 2nd February 2017 at 09:23 PM.
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