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Old 10th March 2017, 09:43 AM   #161
Argumemnon
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
It is, though, because people don't act to risk their lives over something because they consider it its relative worth or importance.
You seem to be under the assumption that unsconscious calculations don't take knowledge and values into consideration, but I would argue that you are very wrong.

Quote:
No, they were considered more valuable to men than perhaps some other property (slaves/servants, land, cattle) was to those same men.
Don't you think that now it's just a matter of interpretation or spin? You seem to be quite determined to conclude that women were nothing more than property no matter what I post.

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How do you mean? In general?
I mean men vs women. I don't know much about the stone age.
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Old 10th March 2017, 09:45 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
But this always happens: A discussion starts on these type of issues, and when things like feminist issues are criticised, it is pointed out that women had it worse years ago. This really is a diversion. Even if women did have it worse back then, why would it justify behaving as a perpetual victim today?
Everybody had it worse back then. My contention, however, is that while women were not considered equal, they had their own privileges, and women of high class could still order lesser men to their deaths.
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Old 10th March 2017, 09:46 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Uh, that's the exact same Blackwell text quoted by the research guide at my link. It even contains the exact same part it quoted about how a married women had no separate legal being or existence from that of herr husband and is entirely subsumed within her husband's legal identity:


In fact, that part is right before the part you quoted, in the same paragraph!



Your own link says otherwise.
Let me say that again:
Women were also given legal privileges which gave the husband responsibilities. This still stands, as I've just shown in both links. No where have I denied that women had hardships in those days.

Why were those things in place? Because life was hard. Without such controls, women would have been more vulnerable.
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Last edited by wobs; 10th March 2017 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 10th March 2017, 10:02 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You seem to be under the assumption that unsconscious calculations don't take knowledge and values into consideration, but I would argue that you are very wrong.
I disagree, because people often react by risking their lives for even objectively valueless or low-value things. For example, store employees (not even owners, just low-level employees of large retail chains) chasing down and sometimes getting themselves killed by shoplifters and robbers.

Quote:
Don't you think that now it's just a matter of interpretation or spin? You seem to be quite determined to conclude that women were nothing more than property no matter what I post.
It's really not so much that as an effort to highlight that women being considered "valuable" did not at all mean that they were also considered "more important" than men, and especially not that they "rule the world". As both my and wobs' links to quotes of Blackstone show, even when women weren't considered explicit chattels, they still had a legal status which precluded any of those notions.

Quote:
I mean men vs women. I don't know much about the stone age.
The priestly classes were pretty much exclusively male in early civilizations (Egypt, Sumer, Indus Valley, etc). It wasn't until later that priestesses became a thing, but by then governments had shifted to a still-male-ruled noble class.
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Old 10th March 2017, 10:07 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
Let me say that again:
Women were also given legal privileges which gave the husband responsibilities. This still stands, as I've just shown in both links. No where have I denied that women had hardships in those days.
Yes, women had some legal privileges and attendant responsibilities to them from their husbands, but both were far fewer than the legal privileges and responsibilities to them from their wives that men were accorded.

I mean, even the most patriarchal and conservative forms of shari'ah enumerate certain legal privileges to women and attendant responsibilities from their husbands!
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Old 10th March 2017, 11:32 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
I disagree, because people often react by risking their lives for even objectively valueless or low-value things. For example, store employees (not even owners, just low-level employees of large retail chains) chasing down and sometimes getting themselves killed by shoplifters and robbers.
Not routinely, though.

Quote:
It's really not so much that as an effort to highlight that women being considered "valuable" did not at all mean that they were also considered "more important" than men, and especially not that they "rule the world".
Note that I am not the poster who said that last one. My point was that you are rewording things in order to give them a different value, which is unproductive.

Quote:
The priestly classes were pretty much exclusively male in early civilizations (Egypt, Sumer, Indus Valley, etc).
Wait, I thought we were talking about _really_ early stuff. By the bronze age you had much more established warrior castes and war cultures.
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Old 10th March 2017, 11:42 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Very true. For example, 32 Everyday Things Women Do That Men Don't Have to Worry About:



I have not had to do all of these things, but I've done a lot of them. So please; continue to tell me how there isn't a gender gap.
If you took a few of the scenarios on your list and substituted whites for women and blacks for men some people would consider you to be unjustifiably racist.
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Old 10th March 2017, 12:14 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Not routinely, though.
True, but it's still more routine than the "women and children first" type thing. People risk themselves for relatively valueless objects all the time, so it's not at all related to them thinking those things are "more important" than they are and therefore not property.

Quote:
Note that I am not the poster who said that last one. My point was that you are rewording things in order to give them a different value, which is unproductive.
I apologize, I didn't mean to attribute that directly to you. I mentioned it in my re-rewording of my argument (specifically to avoid the rewording that you objected to) because this particular discussion spun out of your response to that statement.

Quote:
Wait, I thought we were talking about _really_ early stuff. By the bronze age you had much more established warrior castes and war cultures.
We are, I'm referring to the first civilizations that arose out of the Neolithic Revolution, not later Bronze Age cultures like Akkad, Babylonia, or Mycenaean Greece.
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Old 10th March 2017, 12:25 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
True, but it's still more routine than the "women and children first" type thing.
How do you make that determination other than by your personal impression?
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Old 10th March 2017, 12:27 PM   #170
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As a divorcee of many years and counting I have had many days without a woman. Whats the big deal?
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Old 10th March 2017, 12:35 PM   #171
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Thanks for bringing us back on topic, Cain!
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Old 10th March 2017, 12:36 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
How do you make that determination other than by your personal impression?
To be fair, this seems to be the case for both sides. But I submit that the shipwreck study I cited above gives at least some reliable indication of the true prevalence of the "women and children first" thing.
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Old 10th March 2017, 12:41 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
No, they were considered more valuable to men than perhaps some other property (slaves/servants, land, cattle) was to those same men. It wasn't the women making the decisions about themselves, it was the men who owned them making the decisions regarding their property.
I'd like to come back to this, in regards to 'spin'. Note that you substituted "valuable" for "important" and continue to use the term "property" to mean that they were essentially possessions, which to me indicates a predetermined conclusion.

If women were property, how could they be queen regnant, or own property (or land) themselves, or organise armies, etc.? It just doesn't fit.
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Old 10th March 2017, 01:22 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'd like to come back to this, in regards to 'spin'. Note that you substituted "valuable" for "important"
Because my argument is that what you call "important" is actually that they were valuable, and the unspoken connotations and implications of "important" don't accurately describe things.

Quote:
and continue to use the term "property" to mean that they were essentially possessions, which to me indicates a predetermined conclusion.

If women were property, how could they be queen regnant, or own property (or land) themselves, or organise armies, etc.? It just doesn't fit.
This is, admittedly, the flip side of the kind of argument I'm making above (and why I did my rewording above): "property", to be honest, is not really the best term for what I'm trying to describe either, precisely because it has certain connotations and implications that aren't necessarily the case.

While it's true that in some places and times women were literally property in the sense of the word that you object to above, the actual situation for women was usually much more similar to the system of coverture described above: a woman possessing certain rights, to be sure, but having most rights (and, for the most part, her legal identity as a separate person) subsumed by (and again for the most part, absolutely subordinated to) those of her husband. It's not "property", per se, but neither is it anything that I think is suited to be described as "important" in the way you seem to mean it.

Suggestions as to what to actually call this sort of intermediate subordinate legal state for the purposes of this discussion would be welcome.
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Old 10th March 2017, 01:25 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yep, I've done many of those too. Maybe we should add to the list of:

32 Everyday Things Women Do That Men Don't Have to Worry About:

33. Being so self absorbed that you repost lists about things that men don't have to worry about that are false.
The list can really be divided into 3 sections.

1. Okay self defense techniques.

2. Things socially awkward people hate.

3. Crappy things that happen but are criminal and not simply gender specific.

Seriously when I see these lists the title might as well be " I'm anti social and im going to tell you how to socialize".
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Old 10th March 2017, 02:08 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
The list can really be divided into 3 sections.

1. Okay self defense techniques.

2. Things socially awkward people hate.

3. Crappy things that happen but are criminal and not simply gender specific.

Seriously when I see these lists the title might as well be " I'm anti social and im going to tell you how to socialize".
Also, at the risk of putting statistics into a "skeptical" discussion:
- men are more likely to be crime victims than women
- men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes than women
- 79% of homicide victims are men
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Old 10th March 2017, 02:32 PM   #177
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Old 10th March 2017, 04:15 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Because my argument is that what you call "important" is actually that they were valuable, and the unspoken connotations and implications of "important" don't accurately describe things.
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Since it comes down to which words we use to sell one interpretation or another, I don't see how to move forward.
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Old 12th March 2017, 09:53 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
When you look at anecdotes, you'll find tons of horrible things. But it doesn't make it necessarily a widespread or common occurance. It'll also surely dependon what country or area you live in. And as others have pointed out, a lot of men have to take the same precautions.
Of course they are only anecdotes, since they are unreported incidents. But the frequency of these incidents compared to that of men (my point) is certainly backed up by practically any country's statistics on sexual violence and harassment against women.

It is disproportionately greater than that against men.
Quote:
...and we know men aren't really victims of that, right?
I'm not going to argue something that was not my point.
The point being that women are disproportionately targeted victims of sexual aggression, unwanted sexual advances and sexual violence than men are.
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Old 12th March 2017, 11:00 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Of course they are only anecdotes, since they are unreported incidents. But the frequency of these incidents compared to that of men (my point) is certainly backed up by practically any country's statistics on sexual violence and harassment against women.
If unreported anecdotes are the standard, I have been sexually assaulted by women far more than the times I have sexually assaulted women. Off the top of my head the score is +/-25 : 0. I have been touched, grabbed, groped, fondled, many times without my consent. I have been proposed to by strangers twice and suffered their ire when I rejected them.
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Old 13th March 2017, 02:43 AM   #181
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Regarding the OP - there has been a week without women in a village in the UK in 2005:
Quote:
The latest reality TV show reveals how the boys handled life on their own - quite well, actually
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...s.broadcasting
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Old 13th March 2017, 02:52 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
If the issue is the status of women today, why are you trying to prove that women did not have it worse back then?
Sorry, I missed this post.

I was answering to posts that I read as being misleading, as having a overly victim mentality common in many feminist discussions. It is, as I said a distraction from what actually happens today. Like I said, even if women were as downtrodden as often depicted, it doesn't justify such ideological victim based thinking regarding women today.

I often see this in posts in Facebook - something bad happens to women, therefore women have it worse. Its a logical fallacy, as it provides no context and no balance.
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Old 13th March 2017, 03:05 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Of course they are only anecdotes, since they are unreported incidents. But the frequency of these incidents compared to that of men (my point) is certainly backed up by practically any country's statistics on sexual violence and harassment against women.

It is disproportionately greater than that against men.
If they are anecdotes, then you cannot establish their frequency. You are contradicting yourself.
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Old 13th March 2017, 10:18 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If they are anecdotes, then you cannot establish their frequency. You are contradicting yourself.
Of course I am not. You are mere being deliberately obtuse in order to argue a point that was not mine.

Allow me to quote the relevant part of my OP,
"Their experiences were way more aggressive or intense and frequent than anything I have encountered
...
I'd not be surprised if there was actual data out there that also supported these personal experiences."
It is obvious that I was comparing the frequency of my experiences with the frequency of incidents encountered by my women friends.
Further, any number of studies and statistics support the fact that women are victims of sexual advance and/or attack disproportionately more frequently than men.

So not a single contradiction by myself of any of my comments in any of my posts.
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Old 13th March 2017, 10:29 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post


What's the difference between "risking" one's life for property, and "sacrificing" one's life for property?
It's the finality.
Jack Benny could explain.
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Old 14th March 2017, 01:55 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Of course I am not. You are mere being deliberately obtuse in order to argue a point that was not mine.
Of course I am not. I'm pointing out a contradiction in your post.

Quote:
Allow me to quote the relevant part of my OP,
"Their experiences were way more aggressive or intense and frequent than anything I have encountered
...
I'd not be surprised if there was actual data out there that also supported these personal experiences."
It is obvious that I was comparing the frequency of my experiences with the frequency of incidents encountered by my women friends.
Further, any number of studies and statistics support the fact that women are victims of sexual advance and/or attack disproportionately more frequently than men.

So not a single contradiction by myself of any of my comments in any of my posts.
That's completely irrelevant. You cannot determine frequency from anecdotes. Period.
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Old 14th March 2017, 02:08 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Also, at the risk of putting statistics into a "skeptical" discussion:
- men are more likely to be crime victims than women
- men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes than women
- 79% of homicide victims are men
These are true, and need more attention. However, how and why they are true doesn't actually negate that women who are just engaged in everyday life may indeed need to take more precautions than men generally need to in order to avoid violence.

The reasons men get involved in violence and the reasons women do (generally), aren't actually symmetrical. It can be the case that it is easier for men to generally avoid violence than women, and that they still do not.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:56 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
These are true, and need more attention. However, how and why they are true doesn't actually negate that women who are just engaged in everyday life may indeed need to take more precautions than men generally need to in order to avoid violence.

The reasons men get involved in violence and the reasons women do (generally), aren't actually symmetrical. It can be the case that it is easier for men to generally avoid violence than women, and that they still do not.
So.. is it the case?

Even if it is the case, why do we care more or put more emphasis on those who are less often the victims of violence? I don't think you intended it but your comment comes off to me a bit victim-blamey: men can easily avoid violence, they just don't bother!
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:57 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
it may also mean that women make career choices that will impact their earnings quite a bit.
Let's play a decision-making game.

Let's say you're entering college, and you want to go into the medical profession.

Let's say that doctors, on average, earn about $100K to start, the 5-yr salary is about $250K, and the 10-yr salary is also $250K.

Nurses, on the other hand, earn about $30K to start, the 5-yr is about $40K and the 10-yr is about $50K.

Which would you choose to study?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now let's add some more complexity to this.

Let's say that the placement rate for doctors out of school is about 50%, and the placement rate for nurses is about 80%.

Which one do you choose?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now for that last layer...

Let's say that the placement rate for male doctors out of school is about 75% and the placement rate for female doctors out of school is about 10%. The placement rate for male nurses is about 50% and the placement rate for female nurses is about 85%.

Which do you choose?

Which do you choose if you're female?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The choices that women and men make differently aren't solely a matter of "gender preference". It's also a matter of placement rate, the perception of bias in that career field, and the overall career prospects. A field that has a high male contingent, and is perceived as being less open to female employees, and has a lower likelihood of career advancement for women is less likely to be chose as a field by women. This doesn't mean that women don't like that field as much, or even that they're less interested in it. It simply means that women have brains too and consider more than just "do I like it" when they're planning out their future.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:59 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
If employee 1 is going to take unscheduled time x off, and employee 2 is going to take unscheduled time 2x off then I'm going to make more money employing 1 than 2.
What if you don't know?

What if employees *like* employee 1 have historically taken unscheduled time x, and employees *like* employee 2 have historically taken unscheduled time 2x? What if employee 2 has no intention of taking unscheduled time 2x?

Is it justifiable to you to preferentially select employee 1 because you believe that employee 2 *might* take more time?
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:03 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm sorry, where have I said that they can't? What I am saying is that if they choose to work 4 days a week to be at home with their young children more often, they should expect to make only 80% of the money they'd make on a 5 day week. Do you think their wage should increase by 25% in order to compensate? If not, then you have to accept that these women won't make as much money as their male counterparts.
Are you sure it'sa completely free choice?

If women make less on average for comparable work, and women are promoted less for comparable performance, and women are less likely to be selected for leadership positions, and women are less likely to be considered for jobs with high levels of responsibility... then when the choice is who stays home with the kids... who do you think it's going to be? The one with the better career prospects, or the one with the lower career prospects all else being equal?
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:05 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Are we now talking about hourly wage and for the same work? If so, that's illegal.
Not if her job title is "internal consultant" with a highly flexible salary range, and his job title is "principle developer". Even though they're doing the same actual work, with the same actual responsibilities... it's not technically the same job.

This happens a lot more often than you might think. She's a data analyst, but he's a data scientist. She's a developer, he's a data engineer.
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:07 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
The difference is that one is elective, the other isn't.
Did the father elect to make babies? Or only the mother?
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:14 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
But is it a problem? Society sometimes creates expectations for people. That's life. We live with other people and this is the sort of dynamic that emerges from living in groups. We can try to change these tendencies but in the end there will always be some of them influencing our decisions. I don't think that's inherently bad.
Yes, it is a problem.

Heidi-Howard

There have been several studies done over the year, comparing resumes and CVs for the exact same person, where the only difference was the gender of the applicant. The outcomes are different, the suggested salaries are different, based on absolutely zero difference except gender.

Do you find it acceptable the same sort of discrepancy exists with respect to race? Is it acceptable to you that society creates expectations for people based on their perceived ethnicity, and that those expectations place some people at a disadvantage? Do you find it acceptable that same underlying expectation-based bias results in far more black men being in prison than white men?
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:19 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Is it a problem? Yes of course it is. You're changing the resolution of the argument, and that changes the answer, but for the actual set under discussion, the answer seems very obvious. We aren't talking about 'social expectations' as a whole, but 'the way social expectations based completely on your gender are enforced'. Even if social expectations as a concept aren't inherently bad, that in no way means these ones are not bad or the way they're enforced is not.

Why are these ones problems? Well quite plainly it's a problem for many individuals who would like to do the things they're not 'supposed' to do, like be a female CEO just as valued as her peers or a part-time working male who lives with family helping take care of his grandmother. Not only will you not receive as much support as the other way, but you'll endure other rebuffs as well. Now, some write that completely off as 'whiny snowflakes hurt feelings', but, to put it mildly, screw those people. Also, this tendency to push people towards these different life choices based on something that matters realistically almost not at all for those purposes is that society is deprived of the best candidate for the activity who would provide the best labor. We're deprived of men who would rather spend more time being a good father and helping the PTA be effective because they're working overtime. We're deprived of talented and insightful female leaders and elected officials, because voters decided she should be raising children or supporting her husband. We're deprived of the labor of female scientists who might have brought insights into solving some of our most intractable problems because 'smart girls aren't cute'.

In short, it is a horrendous detriment to the efficient organization of labor. You know, in addition to being a ****** thing to do to individuals.
So much yes.

Also: would anyone in this thread accept an argument of "it's all choices" if the discriminating factor were race instead of gender?
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Old 14th March 2017, 08:11 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
So.. is it the case?
I lack the data to either completely confirm nor deny this idea. There is just enough to make me tentatively conclude it's probably the case. Even though men really are more harshly punished by the legal system for crimes than women are, and even though that should be addressed, it's still true that men commit more violence and violent acts than women. Yes, violence from women and against men needs to be taken more seriously and is, in all likelihood drastically, under-reported. Even then though, men still are the major committers of violence. The same factors that drive men to be the victims of violence, drive them to commit it as well.

Quote:
Even if it is the case, why do we care more or put more emphasis on those who are less often the victims of violence? I don't think you intended it but your comment comes off to me a bit victim-blamey: men can easily avoid violence, they just don't bother!
I was afraid that might be the case. However, these same social expectations, punishments, and incentives, drive men towards them as drive women away from things they might want. Men are still victims, even some who are committing violence, and it still needs to be addressed. It doesn't do anyone any favors though to come at it through a false equivalency. Generally speaking, it is not easy for men to avoid violence, but it is easier than for women. Put another way, the ways men can avoid violence and the ways women can overlap a lot depending on the kind of violence, but the likelihood of needing to actually live by these mitigating tactics aren't. A man isn't likely to be targeted by sex-traffickers. He is less likely to be the target of random sexual violence. He is less likely to be followed and harassed. In no way does this mean men shouldn't worry about this things or that it's less bad when it happens to a man rather than a woman. Men are much more likely to have another man challenge them in an ego-driven fight. More likely to be pressured into challenging another man. More likely to be pressured to fight off their attacker rather than run, or take foolhardy risks rather than avoid them in the first place. He's more likely to be pressured into challenging the authorities, or push around whatever power he does have. The targets of this also tends to be other men.

Men are expected to endure, accept, commit, and seek violence. This is harmful to men, and they are victims too. The idea that one side or the other are the 'real victims' or the 'real power' is one of those that need to go drown in a fire. It isn't a contest between the sexes, nor is blaming a sex at all useful. We're all hurt by this, even if it tends to be in different ways.

This should be needless to say, but none of that actually removes individual responsibility for ones actions.
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Old 14th March 2017, 09:08 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Of course I am not. I'm pointing out a contradiction in your post.
There is no contradiction in my posts, you are merely misrepresenting, or misunderstanding my point.
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That's completely irrelevant. You cannot determine frequency from anecdotes. Period.
Of course I can.
The women's anecdote's regarding sexual aggression, harassment and assault showed it happened more frequently to them than it did to me.

There is absolutely no contradictions in the point that I was actually making, and absolutely no problem observing that the frequency of incidents experienced by them were/are more frequent than that experienced by myself (a man).
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Old 15th March 2017, 02:39 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Let's say that doctors, on average, earn about $100K to start, the 5-yr salary is about $250K, and the 10-yr salary is also $250K.

Nurses, on the other hand, earn about $30K to start, the 5-yr is about $40K and the 10-yr is about $50K.

Which would you choose to study?
It's not just about how much money you make.

Quote:
Let's say that the placement rate for doctors out of school is about 50%, and the placement rate for nurses is about 80%.
Now that's possibly a more reliable factor.

Quote:
Let's say that the placement rate for male doctors out of school is about 75% and the placement rate for female doctors out of school is about 10%. The placement rate for male nurses is about 50% and the placement rate for female nurses is about 85%.

Which do you choose?
It'd be more interesting -- were that true -- to know why it is this way. I'm not going to assume that it's because of discrimination just because it favours men getting paid more.
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Old 15th March 2017, 02:43 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Are you sure it'sa completely free choice?
Nothing's a completely free choice. We have biology to thank for that, and social expectations, and peer pressure, and so on and so forth.

Quote:
If women make less on average for comparable work, and women are promoted less for comparable performance, and women are less likely to be selected for leadership positions, and women are less likely to be considered for jobs with high levels of responsibility... then when the choice is who stays home with the kids... who do you think it's going to be?
If.

Are you denying the biological imperatives to do so?

Quote:
Not if her job title is "internal consultant" with a highly flexible salary range, and his job title is "principle developer".
It should be fairly easy to demonstrate this in court, however, given one's tasks.

Quote:
There have been several studies done over the year, comparing resumes and CVs for the exact same person, where the only difference was the gender of the applicant. The outcomes are different, the suggested salaries are different, based on absolutely zero difference except gender.
You sound way too more certain of that. Zero difference?

Quote:
Do you find it acceptable the same sort of discrepancy exists with respect to race?
Depends on the cause.

Quote:
Do you find it acceptable that same underlying expectation-based bias results in far more black men being in prison than white men?
You seem to be doing a lot of assuming your own conclusions, Cat.
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Old 15th March 2017, 02:44 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Of course I can.

The women's anecdote's regarding sexual aggression, harassment and assault showed it happened more frequently to them than it did to me.
I don't think you know how statistics work, then. You have way too little data to reach a reliable conclusion. Your conclusion, therefore, is too subjective to be worth considering.
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