ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 17th March 2017, 02:51 PM   #41
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 29,476
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If it doesn't cost very much, then it should be easy to make up the funding from other sources.
Reading comprehension, again. I didn't say it wasn't a lot of money. I said it was a very small portion of the federal budget.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 02:53 PM   #42
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 29,476
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The claim I'm referring to was from your earlier post. I asked you to support your claim.
What claim is that? I hope you aren't referring to your straw man?


Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Instead of supporting your claim, you want me to, with your question being the first step of what I'm sure you hoped would be a series.
Not really, I was hoping I could help you understand what I was actually asking, but I see that is very unlikely.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 02:54 PM   #43
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
This is stupid. First off, all modern presidents seem to make taxpayers pay for their golf weekends. The practice may be objectionable, but if so, it is objectionable on its own grounds, not just for Trump, and regardless of how much money the President has.

Second, telling someone that the federal government won't pay for something isn't the same thing as telling them that they cannot have that thing. This is basic logic, but apparently that's beyond a growing number of supposed adults.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 02:55 PM   #44
xjx388
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,435
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Sorry, I was going off of your earlier reference to the National Endowments for the Humanities.
Let's look at NEH too, then. They don't fund libraries. They might fund certain collections in libraries but it's not like those collections would disappear if there was no NEH.


Quote:
Then why did your local museum apply for NEA grants?
If the money is there, people and organizations will apply for it. Hell, I'm going to apply to see if I can get money to quit my job and write the Great American Novel. Not that I need the money but if it's there, why not?

If it isn't there, there are other sources. If a particular library collection, artwork, etc is valuable, there will be patrons to support it. Federal funding is not necessary to support the arts.

We have to make some hard decisions about what we consider to be essential functions of the government. We can't do everything. If we aren't willing to put certain programs on the chopping block to fill other needs deemed essential then we end up with a bloated government that tries to be everything to everyone. Defense, Infrastructure and the Justice/Court system are essentials in just about everyone's book. If you want other things on the budget, then you have to be willing to make room. In my mind, NEA and NEH are about as non-essential as you can get as far as government function so they are first on the block.
__________________
Hello.

Last edited by xjx388; 17th March 2017 at 02:58 PM.
xjx388 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 02:57 PM   #45
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
What claim is that? I hope you aren't referring to your straw man?
The connection implicit in this question:

Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
If we're cutting funding to arts, science, diplomacy, the environment, education, etc., What are we preparing to fight other countries to protect?
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 02:59 PM   #46
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Reading comprehension, again. I didn't say it wasn't a lot of money. I said it was a very small portion of the federal budget.
Reading comprehension indeed. I never said that YOU said it was a lot of money. In fact, my question is premised on the fact that it's not, and that you agree that it's not.

You really aren't good at this.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 02:59 PM   #47
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 29,476
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The connection implicit in this question:
I have no responsibility to support connections that you are inferring.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 03:00 PM   #48
Armitage72
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,442
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
I'm sure most Republicans believe that our military isn't strong enough to make America Great Again. I believe it's not that simple

It's like the military personnel in the Mister Neutron sketch on Monty Python's Flying Circus.


Commander: Have we bombed anywhere? Have we shown 'em we got teeth?

Carpenter: Oh yes, sir. We've bombed a lot of places flat, sir.

Commander: Good. Good. We don't want anyone to think we're chicken.

Carpenter: Oh no! They don't think that, sir. Everyone's really scared of us, sir.

Commander: Of us?

Carpenter: Yes, sir.

Commander: (pleased) Of our power?

Carpenter: Oh yes, sir! They're really scared when they see those big planes come over.

Commander: Wow! I bet they are. I bet they are. I bet they're really scared.

Carpenter: Oh they are, sir.

Commander: Do we have any figures on how scared they are?

Carpenter: No ... no figures, sir. But they sure were scared.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 03:01 PM   #49
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 29,476
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Reading comprehension indeed. I never said that YOU said it was a lot of money. In fact, my question is premised on the fact that it's not, and that you agree that it's not.
I have not agreed that it is not a lot of money.


Please stop trying to derail the thread with your semantic games, Zig.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 03:04 PM   #50
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 20,538
Not that I quite subscribe to it, but I always enjoyed the old bumper sticker (paraphrasing from memory), "It will be a great day when our schools have all the money they need, and they have to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber."
__________________
Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding. (Samuel Johnson)

I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 03:09 PM   #51
xjx388
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,435
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
If you Googled her and discovered that she's a professor at Berkeley, then why are you feigning ignorance of her publications? They're right there on the web page and it's a quite impressive publication record.
I don't know that it's the same person. She is a professor in California but the grant was made for a person from McAllen. But let's assume this is the same person.

If so, I don't see why we need a federal agency to give grants to people who want to write books. Write the damn book and shop it around. If it contributes something, someone will bite. If they don't, oh well.

Quote:
Without more specifics on what that grant was for - or if it was even a grant as opposed to an honorary award - it's not possible to determine where the money went. It might have supported a graduate student, provide travel money for a series of lectures or research trips of her own, provided the means for Dr. Perez to cover some publications costs for her latest book, etc.
It's an NEA Literature Fellowship which:

"... offers $25,000 grants in prose (fiction and creative nonfiction) and poetry to published creative writers that enable recipients to set aside time for writing, research, travel, and general career advancement."

Why do we need to use tax money towards these purposes? Take your time off, write the book, make the money and travel and advance your career on your own dime. What an absolute waste of taxpayer money.

Quote:
Tenured faculty typically collect their salary from their university. External grants provide the support they need to actually do things like conduct research and provide salary for their graduate students.
That's not the case here.

Quote:
I've raised about $2 million in grants in my career, none of which has contributed to my salary, mortgage, etc. What it's done is allow me to create positions for the many people I've hired to work in my lab down through the years. Productive faculty are job creators. We are legally obligated to turn the cash we raise into new positions.
That's not the case here. This was money in her pocket. Do we need a program to redistribute money this way?
__________________
Hello.
xjx388 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 04:44 PM   #52
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Public libraries and museums bring art, history, and literature to the public for free. That's why.
Certainly plenty of leftists who can donate to that.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 04:45 PM   #53
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Because it's for the good of the country. Morale, that sort of thing?
Yes, the leftists who participate in that crap.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 04:46 PM   #54
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post


Okay, let's take it slow, then. Why do we need a gigantic military budget?
If you don't know the answer to that, going slow isn't going to help you.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 04:47 PM   #55
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 19,651
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes, the leftists who participate in that crap.
Ooh... "leftists".
Edgy!
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 04:49 PM   #56
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Why can't the wealthy handle the funding of luxury items like new aircraft carriers?
They already are.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 04:50 PM   #57
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Finally someone has the guts to stand up against museums, homelessness, environmental standards and hungry old folks.
Are we adding in hungry old folks now? Someone mention school lunches don't forget that.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 05:01 PM   #58
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,444
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes, the leftists who participate in that crap.
Art, History and Literature are 'leftist'?
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 05:02 PM   #59
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,444
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes, the leftists who participate in that crap.
Art, History and Literature are crap and 'leftist'?

So much for thousands of years of Civilisation.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 05:24 PM   #60
newyorkguy
Philosopher
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 8,788
First of all, the NEA website has a finder for recent grant recipients and the name Laura Perez got no hits so it's impossible to know why she was given a grant or even if she was. Second, the argument seems to be, because someone doesn't know what NEA does we should get rid of it.
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 05:30 PM   #61
logger
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,768
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Art, History and Literature are 'leftist'?
Leftist "feel" it is for the good of the country, read the post I quoted.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 05:39 PM   #62
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I have no responsibility to support connections that you are inferring.
You have no responsibility to make sense either. Would be nice though. Oh well.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 05:42 PM   #63
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I have not agreed that it is not a lot of money.


Please stop trying to derail the thread with your semantic games, Zig.
Well which is it, Upchurch? Is it a lot of money, or is it not a lot of money? Seems like you're the one trying to play games here.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 05:48 PM   #64
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,444
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Leftist "feel" it is for the good of the country, read the post I quoted.
Isn't it good for the country though.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 06:25 PM   #65
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Isn't it good for the country though.
People keep saying that, but nobody is providing any evidence for it. It's not a reasoned conclusion, it's an article of faith.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 06:33 PM   #66
newyorkguy
Philosopher
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 8,788
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
People keep saying that, but nobody is providing any evidence for it...
Why should we provide evidence? What's in it for us?
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th March 2017, 06:56 PM   #67
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 29,476
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Why should we provide evidence? What's in it for us?
Heh.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 05:08 AM   #68
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Why should we provide evidence? What's in it for us?
Nothing, absolutely nothing. Of course, this is a central claim of the thread, whereas what you were referring to was a throw-away line. So not quite the same thing, but still, you're right. But I do like how you've acknowledged that no evidence is provided. Honesty counts for something.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

Last edited by Ziggurat; 18th March 2017 at 05:09 AM.
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 05:59 AM   #69
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
 
Cl1mh4224rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
eta: to be more specific: Why is more money being redirected to the Military Industrial Complex? For what purpose?

Trump may be serious about renting out the U.S. military to other countries.
Cl1mh4224rd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 06:08 AM   #70
Tero
Muse
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 942
America is getting pumped up! Just like Hans and Frans!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-GLO_PydqU
__________________
Truth on Trump: https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3840/3...c01763b118.jpg
And we are going right back to the Hillary/Obama progression of things once we get rid of Trump. The last Republican president this century. Face it, with population growth and more urban people, the future is more Sesame Street than Little House on The Prairie.
Tero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 07:00 PM   #71
seayakin
Graduate Poster
 
seayakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,180
I don't have it at hand but the NEH provides some direct grants to libraries and archives. I have reviewed a few grants which also were to preserve a collection. If they didn't get the money some of the collections may have been lost.
__________________
"I kayak, therefore I am"
seayakin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 08:46 PM   #72
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,320
He wants to cut:

-the home heating oil for the poor program.

-public housing.

-Medicaid.

I guess he wants to lose all those poor white voters he got in 2016.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 08:49 PM   #73
Regnad Kcin
Philosopher
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,215
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The claim I'm referring to was from your earlier post. I asked you to support your claim. Instead of supporting your claim, you want me to, with your question being the first step of what I'm sure you hoped would be a series.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Nothing, absolutely nothing. Of course, this is a central claim of the thread, whereas what you were referring to was a throw-away line. So not quite the same thing, but still, you're right. But I do like how you've acknowledged that no evidence is provided. Honesty counts for something.
You tell him, partner! - Notoriously thin-skinned narcissist Barack Obama
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 09:05 PM   #74
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 42,668
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
He wants to cut:

-the home heating oil for the poor program.

-public housing.

-Medicaid.

I guess he wants to lose all those poor white voters he got in 2016.
Unless they'd rather freeze, be homeless, and go without medicine if by doing so they can imagine somebody else doing just as badly. America is no longer about being successful yourself, it's about making sure those other people, the ones you don't like, aren't successful.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 09:33 PM   #75
Polaris
Penultimate Amazing
 
Polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,883
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
He wants to cut:

-the home heating oil for the poor program.

-public housing.

-Medicaid.

I guess he wants to lose all those poor white voters he got in 2016.
They won and made libtards cry - that's all that matters.
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar

"Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.
Polaris is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 09:56 PM   #76
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,320
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
They won and made libtards cry - that's all that matters.
Cutting Medicaid, home heating oil for the poor, public housing, will lead to a massive victory for the Democrats in 2018.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 10:07 PM   #77
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 37,045
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Cutting Medicaid, home heating oil for the poor, public housing, will lead to a massive victory for the Democrats in 2018.
Then follow Napoleon's advice and don't interrupt.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th March 2017, 10:24 PM   #78
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 20,538
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Unless they'd rather freeze, be homeless, and go without medicine if by doing so they can imagine somebody else doing just as badly. America is no longer about being successful yourself, it's about making sure those other people, the ones you don't like, aren't successful.
Besides, although some poor people did vote for trump this time, poor people can't be trusted. The best way to make sure they don't vote against you is to kill the ones you can't send to prison or deport.
__________________
Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding. (Samuel Johnson)

I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th March 2017, 06:03 AM   #79
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 16,096
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Cutting Medicaid, home heating oil for the poor, public housing, will lead to a massive victory for the Democrats in 2018.
It was this type of overestimating the American electorate that cost Clinton the election in the first place.

Never underestimate people's ability to vote against their own interests.
__________________
I have a permanent room at the Home for the Chronically Groovy - Floyd from the Muppets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th March 2017, 06:47 AM   #80
newyorkguy
Philosopher
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 8,788
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
He wants to cut:
-the home heating oil for the poor program.
-public housing.
-Medicaid.
I guess he wants to lose all those poor white voters he got in 2016.
I think the reality may be, Trump did well with white working class and middle-class voters. Not as well with white voters who live at, near or below the poverty level. They're two different groups. In most counties where there is significant poverty -- and they are not all obviously minority dominated -- Clinton got close to a 60/40 ratio of the votes. Clinton also won with about a 52%/42% ratio among voters making less than $50,000 a year.

Quote:
The working class did not vote against its interests. The middle and upper class sold them out. Link
The programs listed above seem to me to be the kinds of programs most white working class and middle-class voters don't qualify for and usually want to see eliminated.
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:26 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.