[Merged] Silver Over 40.00 / Real and fake prices

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 12:17 PM

Praise the Bernank for printing money which drives the value of my physical silver holdings higher.

Of course, I have sympathy for the great unwashed who will be wiped out as inflation destroys their meager incomes.

But fear not, the bankers who are currently flipping bonds back to the Fed within a week of their issuance are making a fat payday every POMO day and will continue to live in their shining mansions on the hill.

If you are kind to them, they may feel pitty for you and provide you with handouts and perhaps some rice to feed your families.

Praise Mao, and may the Bernank reign supreme forever.

The Don · 8th April 2011, 12:24 PM

So happy for you

Cayvmann · 8th April 2011, 12:27 PM

When the money is gone(devalued), your silver is going to be worth???

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cayvmann

When the money is gone(devalued), your silver is going to be worth???

A lot of real goods and services.

I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime.

timhau · 8th April 2011, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

A lot of real goods and services.

I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime.

Yes, because things will never get so bad that people won't trade food for shiny objects.

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

Yes, because things will never get so bad that people won't trade food for shiny objects.

People are trading 40.00 dollars of fiat money for shiny objects right now.

I don't think it is any more of a stretch to trade food for shiny objects when those paper dollars are worthless.

In Zimbabwe, what little remains of the economy functions on the trade of gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

timhau · 8th April 2011, 01:19 PM

Oh yes, Zimbabwe. 'Cause that's where we're headed. All inflation automatically leads to hyperinflation

The hyperinflation in Mugabeland has actually caused them to do business in U.S. Dollars (and Euros, and UK Pounds).

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

Oh yes, Zimbabwe. 'Cause that's where we're headed. All inflation automatically leads to hyperinflation

The hyperinflation in Mugabeland has actually caused them to do business in U.S. Dollars (and Euros, and UK Pounds).

The International Accounting Standards Board, which describes hyperinflation as "a cumulative inflation rate over three years approaching 100% (26% per annum compounded for three years in a row)"

Commodities markets are currently increasing at about a 22% annual rate, and are accelerating.

We will experience hyperinflation.

There is only one way we would not experience hyperinflation, and that is if the Fed stops printing and the government stops spending.

Neither of those will happen, therefore we will experience hyperinflation.

lomiller · 8th April 2011, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

A lot of real goods and services.

I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime.

Not likely. If the monetary system did collapse so would the economy and no one is going to be willing to give you something useful (food) in exchange for something that is not useful (silver)

lomiller · 8th April 2011, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

The International Accounting Standards Board, which describes hyperinflation as "a cumulative inflation rate over three years approaching 100% (26% per annum compounded for three years in a row)"

Commodities markets are currently increasing at about a 22% annual rate, and are accelerating.

We will experience hyperinflation.

There is only one way we would not experience hyperinflation, and that is if the Fed stops printing and the government stops spending.

Neither of those will happen, therefore we will experience hyperinflation.

Lol so you are saying that if you redefine inflation you can call the current near zero inflation rate hyperinflation.

Frank Newgent · 8th April 2011, 01:55 PM

Bought a 100 oz silver bar not that long ago in Nov 2009 at under $18/oz

Should I sell it already

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Lol so you are saying that if you redefine inflation you can call the current near zero inflation rate hyperinflation.

The Fed redefines inflation by stripping out half of what consumers spend their money on.

Food and energy.

The notion that these should be removed from the core CPI, while housing should take up over 40% of the adustment, is patently ridiculous.

Keep laughing.

In the end, the markets will have the last laugh.

As will I.

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Frank Newgent

Bought a 100 oz silver bar not that long ago in Nov 2009 at under $18/oz

Should I sell it already

No, silver is about to undergo an exponential increase in price.

I think silver has the chops to actually beat gold in price because it has been so severely manipulated and has much higher industrial usage rates.

I think it is entirely plausible that we could see silver around a thousand in fairly short order.

Right now we will see silver price increases accelerating on an almost daily basis as JP Morgan has no silver left to manipulate the markets with.

Their naked shorts are about to come unwound.

Frank Newgent · 8th April 2011, 02:07 PM

I sure hope not. That would annihilate the sterling silver jewelry business.

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Frank Newgent

I sure hope not. That would annihilate the sterling silver jewelry business.

lol

timhau · 8th April 2011, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

I think it is entirely plausible that we could see silver around a thousand in fairly short order.

And if we don't, it's because the Jews manipulate it, right?

lomiller · 8th April 2011, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Frank Newgent

Bought a 100 oz silver bar not that long ago in Nov 2009 at under $18/oz

Should I sell it already

In Apr of 09 I bought 300 shares of BMO for $31, it’s now selling for $65 has paid me $1800 in dividends and should pay me at least $900 more every year. Should I sell it already?

Frank Newgent · 8th April 2011, 02:22 PM

Didn't you forget a smilie?

timhau · 8th April 2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

In Apr of 09 I bought 300 shares of BMO for $31, it’s now selling for $65 has paid me $1800 in dividends and should pay me at least $900 more every year. Should I sell it already?

I have some shiny trinkets. Wanna trade?

michaelsuede · 8th April 2011, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

In Apr of 09 I bought 300 shares of BMO for $31, it’s now selling for $65 has paid me $1800 in dividends and should pay me at least $900 more every year. Should I sell it already?

Precious metals and hard commodities always out perform the market during a hyper-inflationary scenario.

I would recommend selling the stock while it still has value.

Historically we know this to be true in virtually every instance.

lomiller · 8th April 2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

I have some shiny trinkets. Wanna trade?

Shiny is sooo much better then a dividend check every 3 months!

timhau · 8th April 2011, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Shiny is sooo much better then a dividend check every 3 months!

You just heard that. Historically it's true in virtually every instance.

Tippit · 8th April 2011, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

Yes, because things will never get so bad that people won't trade food for shiny objects.

If that time ever occurs, it will in all likelihood be preceded by a longer duration where people will refuse to trade food for pieces of paper or plastic. The value of gold and silver depend on the existence of civilization as much as fiat and electronic money do, but they insure against the loss (and sometimes dramatic loss) of purchasing power that has occured and will occur within the context of a civilized, if financially unstable, society.

Tippit · 8th April 2011, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

A lot of real goods and services.

I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime.

Hey, don't knock the dimes minted from 1946-1964, either!

Tippit · 8th April 2011, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

The Fed redefines inflation by stripping out half of what consumers spend their money on.

Food and energy.

The notion that these should be removed from the core CPI, while housing should take up over 40% of the adustment, is patently ridiculous.

I'm afraid it's far worse than this. It's easy enough to just look at headline inflation to presumably capture food and energy prices, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that the current formula which uses hedonic regression to measure "inflation" is several-hundred basis points lower than the results given by the pre-Clinton era CPI formula, as documented by John Williams at http://www.shadowstats.com. This is how economists can, with a straight face, claim inflation is low and fool people like iomiller, not because of core vs. headline.

mhaze · 10th April 2011, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Tippit

....John Williams at http://www.shadowstats.com. This is how economists can, with a straight face, claim inflation is low and fool people like iomiller, not because of core vs. headline.

Williams has done absolutely outstanding work in providing a credible, carefully researched alternative set of numbers (including the M3 number) against a generally increasing propagandic set of government supplied numbers.

BUT I'm in favor of most of the people being fooled most of the time, so I like the government numbers.

PSST: let's not tell anyone about Shadowstats.com, okay? We'll just keep it a little secret.

mhaze · 10th April 2011, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Tippit

... The value of gold and silver depend on the existence of civilization as much as fiat and electronic money do, but they insure against the loss (and sometimes dramatic loss) of purchasing power that has occured and will occur within the context of a civilized, if financially unstable, society.

But gold and silver always were intermediate products in the context of bartering exchange, and today other intermediate products are dominent. Gold and silver will never return to this status.

For example, today even currency isn't really used. Electronic equivalents are. The question of relevance is what backs the unit of exchange presented.

So for example, suppose there was a major currency collapse. Visa would move to back it's cards with some commodity based basket, then the card presented would be good. And that could happen so fast you couldn't blink your eyes twice before it was in place. No gold or silver is necessary, just the elimination of governments from the concept of money.

It's the electronic equivalents which have created these possibilities, but they are not yet recognized for their potentials.

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 03:23 PM

Silver over 42 today.

ehcks · 14th April 2011, 03:32 PM

Wouldn't it be funny if precious metals were in a bubble state, like houses were recently, and dotcoms were before that?

Gonna have a nice laugh if/when the price tanks.

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by ehcks

Wouldn't it be funny if precious metals were in a bubble state, like houses were recently, and dotcoms were before that?

Gonna have a nice laugh if/when the price tanks.

There is no bubble in metals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTYO5ViN9s

NewtonTrino · 14th April 2011, 03:40 PM

So you're saying a 100oz silver bar is soon going to be worth $100k US?

I have my doubts

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by NewtonTrino

So you're saying a 100oz silver bar is soon going to be worth $100k US?

I have my doubts

That's funny.

Because I have those same doubts about the dollar.

I think MY doubts are more well founded than YOUR doubts.

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 03:56 PM

I have a bag of 1000 silver dimes.

At one point, each dime was worth 10 cents.

Today, each dime is worth over 3 dollars.

((¢300 - ¢10) / ¢10) *100 = 2900% increase

(($1000 - $42) / $42) * 100 = 2280% increase

I don't see why silver can't go to 1000 since the dollar has already lost 96.7% of its value.

Most of that lost value has occurred in the last 40 years. We will see an acceleration of value lost for several reasons. Not the least of which is JPMs fraudulent naked shorts and the Bernank's printing press.

roger · 14th April 2011, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

I have a bag of 1000 silver dimes.

At one point, each dime was worth 10 cents.

Today, each dime is worth over 3 dollars.

((¢300 - ¢10) / ¢10) *100 = 2900% increase

(($1000 - $42) / $42) * 100 = 2280% increase

I don't see why silver can't go to 1000 since the dollar has already lost 96.7% of its value.

Most of that lost value has occurred in the last 40 years. We will see an acceleration of value lost for several reasons. Not the least of which is JPMs fraudulent naked shorts and the Bernank's printing press.

For a whopping ~4.5% compounded return. Adjusted for inflation.

You'd be way better off owning, say, Berkshire Hathaway. Or a friggin utility that pays dividends.

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by roger

For a whopping ~4.5% compounded return. Adjusted for inflation.

You'd be way better off owning, say, Berkshire Hathaway. Or a friggin utility that pays dividends.

This is true under normal circumstances.

However, we are no longer dealing with normal circumstances.

We are dealing with an out of control central bank and government.

In those situations, metals will out-perform such market gains.

They always do.

roger · 14th April 2011, 04:32 PM

Metals do not 'perform'. They do no useful work by themselves. They are not productive. Their prices are based on supply and demand. Admittedly demand rises due to hysteria during inflation, but it also collapses. Historically silver has been nearly flat except for that super brief bubble/collapse a few decades ago. It falls back to flat. It always does. (because of that aforementioned 'it does not produce' point).

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 04:34 PM

10 year return on silver:
april 14 2001: 4.38
april 14 2011: 42.20

Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (BRK-A)
Apr 16, 2001 64,200.00
Apr 13, 2011 121,227.00

Which would you rather own?

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by roger

Metals do not 'perform'. They do no useful work by themselves. They are not productive. Their prices are based on supply and demand. Admittedly demand rises due to hysteria during inflation, but it also collapses. Historically silver has been nearly flat except for that super brief bubble/collapse a few decades ago. It falls back to flat. It always does. (because of that aforementioned 'it does not produce' point).

Metals preform when the dollar fails.

The dollar is failing.

roger · 14th April 2011, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by michaelsuede

10 year return on silver:
april 14 2001: 4.38
april 14 2011: 42.20

Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (BRK-A)
Apr 16, 2001 64,200.00
Apr 13, 2011 121,227.00

Which would you rather own?

Berkshire Hathaway.

michaelsuede · 14th April 2011, 04:39 PM

I predict just a few months from now, I will dredge up this post and LOL @ 40.00 silver.

It will be a thing of a by-gone era.

Like nickel gum-ball machines.

8th April 2011, 12:17 PM	#1
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Silver Over 40.00 / Real and fake prices Praise the Bernank for printing money which drives the value of my physical silver holdings higher. Of course, I have sympathy for the great unwashed who will be wiped out as inflation destroys their meager incomes. But fear not, the bankers who are currently flipping bonds back to the Fed within a week of their issuance are making a fat payday every POMO day and will continue to live in their shining mansions on the hill. If you are kind to them, they may feel pitty for you and provide you with handouts and perhaps some rice to feed your families. Praise Mao, and may the Bernank reign supreme forever.

8th April 2011, 12:27 PM	#3
Cayvmann Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 785	When the money is gone(devalued), your silver is going to be worth???
Cayvmann Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 785

8th April 2011, 12:34 PM	#5
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,514	Originally Posted by michaelsuede A lot of real goods and services. I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime. Yes, because things will never get so bad that people won't trade food for shiny objects.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

8th April 2011, 01:19 PM	#7
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,514	Oh yes, Zimbabwe. 'Cause that's where we're headed. All inflation automatically leads to hyperinflation The hyperinflation in Mugabeland has actually caused them to do business in U.S. Dollars (and Euros, and UK Pounds).
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

8th April 2011, 01:39 PM	#9
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,534	Originally Posted by michaelsuede A lot of real goods and services. I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime. Not likely. If the monetary system did collapse so would the economy and no one is going to be willing to give you something useful (food) in exchange for something that is not useful (silver)
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

8th April 2011, 12:24 PM	#2
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,668	So happy for you

8th April 2011, 12:28 PM	#4
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by Cayvmann When the money is gone(devalued), your silver is going to be worth??? A lot of real goods and services. I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime.

8th April 2011, 12:58 PM	#6
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by timhau Yes, because things will never get so bad that people won't trade food for shiny objects. People are trading 40.00 dollars of fiat money for shiny objects right now. I don't think it is any more of a stretch to trade food for shiny objects when those paper dollars are worthless. In Zimbabwe, what little remains of the economy functions on the trade of gold. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

8th April 2011, 01:35 PM	#8
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by timhau Oh yes, Zimbabwe. 'Cause that's where we're headed. All inflation automatically leads to hyperinflation The hyperinflation in Mugabeland has actually caused them to do business in U.S. Dollars (and Euros, and UK Pounds). The International Accounting Standards Board, which describes hyperinflation as "a cumulative inflation rate over three years approaching 100% (26% per annum compounded for three years in a row)" Commodities markets are currently increasing at about a 22% annual rate, and are accelerating. We will experience hyperinflation. There is only one way we would not experience hyperinflation, and that is if the Fed stops printing and the government stops spending. Neither of those will happen, therefore we will experience hyperinflation.

8th April 2011, 01:41 PM	#10
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,534	Originally Posted by michaelsuede The International Accounting Standards Board, which describes hyperinflation as "a cumulative inflation rate over three years approaching 100% (26% per annum compounded for three years in a row)" Commodities markets are currently increasing at about a 22% annual rate, and are accelerating. We will experience hyperinflation. There is only one way we would not experience hyperinflation, and that is if the Fed stops printing and the government stops spending. Neither of those will happen, therefore we will experience hyperinflation. Lol so you are saying that if you redefine inflation you can call the current near zero inflation rate hyperinflation.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

8th April 2011, 01:55 PM	#11
Frank Newgent Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 6,800	Bought a 100 oz silver bar not that long ago in Nov 2009 at under $18/oz Should I sell it already
	__________________ Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski

8th April 2011, 02:02 PM	#12
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by lomiller Lol so you are saying that if you redefine inflation you can call the current near zero inflation rate hyperinflation. The Fed redefines inflation by stripping out half of what consumers spend their money on. Food and energy. The notion that these should be removed from the core CPI, while housing should take up over 40% of the adustment, is patently ridiculous. Keep laughing. In the end, the markets will have the last laugh. As will I.

8th April 2011, 02:04 PM	#13
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by Frank Newgent Bought a 100 oz silver bar not that long ago in Nov 2009 at under $18/oz Should I sell it already No, silver is about to undergo an exponential increase in price. I think silver has the chops to actually beat gold in price because it has been so severely manipulated and has much higher industrial usage rates. I think it is entirely plausible that we could see silver around a thousand in fairly short order. Right now we will see silver price increases accelerating on an almost daily basis as JP Morgan has no silver left to manipulate the markets with. Their naked shorts are about to come unwound.

8th April 2011, 02:07 PM	#14
Frank Newgent Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 6,800	I sure hope not. That would annihilate the sterling silver jewelry business.
	__________________ Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski

8th April 2011, 02:10 PM	#15
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by Frank Newgent I sure hope not. That would annihilate the sterling silver jewelry business. lol

8th April 2011, 02:12 PM	#16
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,514	Originally Posted by michaelsuede I think it is entirely plausible that we could see silver around a thousand in fairly short order. And if we don't, it's because the Jews manipulate it, right?
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

8th April 2011, 02:19 PM	#17
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,534	Originally Posted by Frank Newgent Bought a 100 oz silver bar not that long ago in Nov 2009 at under $18/oz Should I sell it already In Apr of 09 I bought 300 shares of BMO for $31, it’s now selling for $65 has paid me $1800 in dividends and should pay me at least $900 more every year. Should I sell it already?
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

8th April 2011, 02:22 PM	#18
Frank Newgent Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 6,800	Didn't you forget a smilie?
	__________________ Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski

8th April 2011, 02:29 PM	#19
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,514	Originally Posted by lomiller In Apr of 09 I bought 300 shares of BMO for $31, it’s now selling for $65 has paid me $1800 in dividends and should pay me at least $900 more every year. Should I sell it already? I have some shiny trinkets. Wanna trade?
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

8th April 2011, 02:33 PM	#20
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by lomiller In Apr of 09 I bought 300 shares of BMO for $31, it’s now selling for $65 has paid me $1800 in dividends and should pay me at least $900 more every year. Should I sell it already? Precious metals and hard commodities always out perform the market during a hyper-inflationary scenario. I would recommend selling the stock while it still has value. Historically we know this to be true in virtually every instance.

8th April 2011, 02:42 PM	#21
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,534	Originally Posted by timhau I have some shiny trinkets. Wanna trade? Shiny is sooo much better then a dividend check every 3 months!
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

8th April 2011, 02:57 PM	#22
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,514	Originally Posted by lomiller Shiny is sooo much better then a dividend check every 3 months! You just heard that. Historically it's true in virtually every instance.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

8th April 2011, 06:42 PM	#23
Tippit Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 3,071	Originally Posted by timhau Yes, because things will never get so bad that people won't trade food for shiny objects. If that time ever occurs, it will in all likelihood be preceded by a longer duration where people will refuse to trade food for pieces of paper or plastic. The value of gold and silver depend on the existence of civilization as much as fiat and electronic money do, but they insure against the loss (and sometimes dramatic loss) of purchasing power that has occured and will occur within the context of a civilized, if financially unstable, society.
	__________________ "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." - Herbert Spencer

8th April 2011, 06:43 PM	#24
Tippit Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 3,071	Originally Posted by michaelsuede A lot of real goods and services. I might be able to feed myself for a few days with a single pre-1946 dime. Hey, don't knock the dimes minted from 1946-1964, either!
	__________________ "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." - Herbert Spencer

8th April 2011, 07:01 PM	#25
Tippit Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 3,071	Originally Posted by michaelsuede The Fed redefines inflation by stripping out half of what consumers spend their money on. Food and energy. The notion that these should be removed from the core CPI, while housing should take up over 40% of the adustment, is patently ridiculous. I'm afraid it's far worse than this. It's easy enough to just look at headline inflation to presumably capture food and energy prices, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that the current formula which uses hedonic regression to measure "inflation" is *several-hundred basis points lower* than the results given by the pre-Clinton era CPI formula, as documented by John Williams at http://www.shadowstats.com. This is how economists can, with a straight face, claim inflation is low and fool people like iomiller, not because of core vs. headline.
	__________________ "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." - Herbert Spencer

10th April 2011, 08:48 AM	#26
mhaze Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,718	Originally Posted by Tippit ....John Williams at http://www.shadowstats.com. This is how economists can, with a straight face, claim inflation is low and fool people like iomiller, not because of core vs. headline. Williams has done absolutely outstanding work in providing a credible, carefully researched alternative set of numbers (including the M3 number) against a generally increasing propagandic set of government supplied numbers. BUT I'm in favor of most of the people being fooled most of the time, so I like the government numbers. PSST: let's not tell anyone about Shadowstats.com, okay? We'll just keep it a little secret.
mhaze Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,718

10th April 2011, 08:53 AM	#27
mhaze Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,718	Originally Posted by Tippit ... The value of gold and silver depend on the existence of civilization as much as fiat and electronic money do, but they insure against the loss (and sometimes dramatic loss) of purchasing power that has occured and will occur within the context of a civilized, if financially unstable, society. But gold and silver always were intermediate products in the context of bartering exchange, and today other intermediate products are dominent. Gold and silver will never return to this status. For example, today even currency isn't really used. Electronic equivalents are. The question of relevance is what backs the unit of exchange presented. So for example, suppose there was a major currency collapse. Visa would move to back it's cards with some commodity based basket, then the card presented would be good. And that could happen so fast you couldn't blink your eyes twice before it was in place. No gold or silver is necessary, just the elimination of governments from the concept of money. It's the electronic equivalents which have created these possibilities, but they are not yet recognized for their potentials.
mhaze Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,718

14th April 2011, 03:23 PM	#28
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Silver over 42 today.

14th April 2011, 03:32 PM	#29
ehcks Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302	Wouldn't it be funny if precious metals were in a bubble state, like houses were recently, and dotcoms were before that? Gonna have a nice laugh if/when the price tanks.
ehcks Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302

14th April 2011, 03:39 PM	#30
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by ehcks Wouldn't it be funny if precious metals were in a bubble state, like houses were recently, and dotcoms were before that? Gonna have a nice laugh if/when the price tanks. There is no bubble in metals. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTYO5ViN9s

14th April 2011, 03:40 PM	#31
NewtonTrino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,391	So you're saying a 100oz silver bar is soon going to be worth $100k US? I have my doubts
NewtonTrino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,391

14th April 2011, 03:40 PM	#32
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by NewtonTrino So you're saying a 100oz silver bar is soon going to be worth $100k US? I have my doubts That's funny. Because I have those same doubts about the dollar. I think MY doubts are more well founded than YOUR doubts.

14th April 2011, 03:56 PM	#33
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	I have a bag of 1000 silver dimes. At one point, each dime was worth 10 cents. Today, each dime is worth over 3 dollars. ((¢300 - ¢10) / ¢10) 100 = 2900% increase (($1000 - $42) / $42) 100 = 2280% increase I don't see why silver can't go to 1000 since the dollar has already lost 96.7% of its value. Most of that lost value has occurred in the last 40 years. We will see an acceleration of value lost for several reasons. Not the least of which is JPMs fraudulent naked shorts and the Bernank's printing press.
	Last edited by michaelsuede; 14th April 2011 at 04:10 PM.

14th April 2011, 04:20 PM	#34
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 11,465	Originally Posted by michaelsuede I have a bag of 1000 silver dimes. At one point, each dime was worth 10 cents. Today, each dime is worth over 3 dollars. ((¢300 - ¢10) / ¢10) 100 = 2900% increase (($1000 - $42) / $42) 100 = 2280% increase I don't see why silver can't go to 1000 since the dollar has already lost 96.7% of its value. Most of that lost value has occurred in the last 40 years. We will see an acceleration of value lost for several reasons. Not the least of which is JPMs fraudulent naked shorts and the Bernank's printing press. For a whopping ~4.5% compounded return. Adjusted for inflation. You'd be way better off owning, say, Berkshire Hathaway. Or a friggin utility that pays dividends.
	__________________ May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. - John Muir

14th April 2011, 04:24 PM	#35
michaelsuede Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,416	Originally Posted by roger For a whopping ~4.5% compounded return. Adjusted for inflation. You'd be way better off owning, say, Berkshire Hathaway. Or a friggin utility that pays dividends. This is true under normal circumstances. However, we are no longer dealing with normal circumstances. We are dealing with an out of control central bank and government. In those situations, metals will out-perform such market gains. They always do.