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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 11th October 2019, 05:58 AM   #2201
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Oh wait I think it was Teresa
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Old 3rd November 2019, 08:26 AM   #2202
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
A crockpot, but a fun one I guess. Blevins' home made bigfoot costume was silly looking by movie monster standards, but it effectively debunked some trenchant footer fantasies about the PGF. No zippers were visible, the "mime" (Blevins) was able to walk smoothly in a costume that created the illusion of great mass, etc.
Sad news. I spent a lot of time talking to Leroy, he was always happy to send me updates about his Patty suit project.
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Old 4th November 2019, 10:04 PM   #2203
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
A crockpot, but a fun one I guess. Blevins' home made bigfoot costume was silly looking by movie monster standards, but it effectively debunked some trenchant footer fantasies about the PGF. No zippers were visible, the "mime" (Blevins) was able to walk smoothly in a costume that created the illusion of great mass, etc.
Very true. Many of Blevins's claims were... interesting, but I thought he did a surprisingly good job on his suit, especially for a person with no prior experience (IIRC). Certainly better than many, including probably all of the footers gave him. What so many of them seemed to be missing (and always seem to be missing, for that matter) is how poor quality the PGF actually is, and how little you can see in versions that haven't been zoomed in, cropped, "enhanced," and slowed down. Shot poorly and in bad conditions on 16mm from a good distance, I always thought his suit would have looked pretty comparable to Patty. And either way, as you said, he was able to debunk a lot of claims about making and wearing a Patty-ish suit.
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Old 5th November 2019, 08:55 AM   #2204
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Originally Posted by ArchSas View Post
Shot poorly and in bad conditions on 16mm from a good distance, I always thought his suit would have looked pretty comparable to Patty.
IMO, Blevins did not provide at least three necessary things for a "Patty recreation".

1) Greatly increased distance between the subject and the camera. He could have done this but didn't.

2) Very glossy fur on the costume. He may have had trouble finding this even if he knew that it should be - but I don't think he understood the need for this.

3) Bright sunlight with the sun being high in the sky. He didn't do this.

I think that film might be necessary instead of video because I think that it might be important that the original media has grain instead of pixels. Additionally, the great distance is important because it is necessary to force any analyst to greatly enlarge the image/subject in order to see anything at all. Blevins filmed his costume from such a short distance that it is unnecessary for anyone to enlarge the image to look at the costume.
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Old 5th November 2019, 04:18 PM   #2205
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
IMO, Blevins did not provide at least three necessary things for a "Patty recreation".
Fair points all.

To me what Blevins did accomplish was demonstrate ease of movement in a costume that created the illusion of great bulk. The "mime" was fully capable of donning the suit and walking around without dying, which some suit geniuses at the time were trying to convince us was nigh-on impossible.
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Old 6th November 2019, 08:33 AM   #2206
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Al DeAtley has died.
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Old 6th November 2019, 01:35 PM   #2207
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That really only leaves Pat Patterson and Bob H. as the remaining players?
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Old 6th November 2019, 02:10 PM   #2208
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Bob Gimlin is still kicking.
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Old 6th November 2019, 03:27 PM   #2209
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
2) Very glossy fur on the costume. He may have had trouble finding this even if he knew that it should be - but I don't think he understood the need for this.
I've spoken of the need to use very glossy synthetic fur in order to get the look of Patty. Here we see a vintage black Dynel synthetic fur coat. This fur would have been readily available back in 1967 but may be near impossible to find now. Bigfooters ask Patty replicators to make sure they only use what was available to Patterson without any modern-era advancements. It looks to me like Patterson used Dynel and that is difficult to get now.

Notice that the gloss creates bright areas when illuminated (think bright sunlight). This black coat appears to have grey areas (some of which are nearly white) but it really doesn't. That gloss could create optical illusions of various kinds including causing false visual impressions about underlying contours like muscles or other physiology. One might make mistakes in trying to determine if an area on the costume is raised or depressed. One might declare that there is an underlying physiology that isn't actually there. IOW, the gloss could trick you as an observer trying to describe what you see.

That could very much benefit a Bigfoot hoaxer with a costume such as Roger Patterson. Illusions can cause you to think that certain things are present which actually aren't and vice-versa.

One might even take this synthetic fur and place it on a perfectly flat surface but then the variable reflection of light off of the fur fibers causes one to think that it isn't flat.
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Old 6th November 2019, 03:40 PM   #2210
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Here is a Dynel fur purse with the potential for optical illusion and pareidolia. Can you find the palm tree?
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Old 6th November 2019, 03:45 PM   #2211
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Lions and muscles and tendons, oh my!
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Old 10th November 2019, 01:38 PM   #2212
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post

Pretty impressive obit. Seems like he was quite a community leader and benefactor.
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Old 10th November 2019, 08:43 PM   #2213
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Pretty impressive obit. Seems like he was quite a community leader and benefactor.
And if we take Kitakaze at his word, was DeAtley not in possession of "the suit"?
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Old 10th November 2019, 09:25 PM   #2214
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
And if we take Kitakaze at his word, was DeAtley not in possession of "the suit"?
I'm not sure I would consider such a claim even remotely valid without some sort of hard evidence. Kitakaze supplied no evidence that I am aware of.
I respected his research until his eagerness to make a big splash as documentary producer/writer seemed to cloud his judgement. IMHO, of course.
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Old 11th November 2019, 12:42 AM   #2215
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He told me someone else owns the suit.
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Old 11th November 2019, 08:11 AM   #2216
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I thought DeAtley had funded Patterson's film and after it took off so to speak, he kept the suit and it was in a display case at his home. It was supposedly described by a contractor who was working at the home.
Since he would have known the truth, and had the most to lose by its exposure as a fraud, or maybe he had it as trophy of the greatest hoax ever....or both.
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Old 12th November 2019, 03:17 AM   #2217
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
I thought DeAtley had funded Patterson's film and after it took off so to speak, he kept the suit and it was in a display case at his home. It was supposedly described by a contractor who was working at the home.
Since he would have known the truth, and had the most to lose by its exposure as a fraud, or maybe he had it as trophy of the greatest hoax ever....or both.
With respect - there is no direct evidence supporting any of your post. As sceptics - we should at least try and have a higher standard of evidence than the Footers.
After all - my contractor source told me DeAtley was a strategically shaved Bigfoot who had Patterson's body embalmed and kept it in a display case in his home.

Kit supplied absolutely no evidence to back up his later claims. Like the Footers - he promised a giant awe-inspiring reveal and kept doubling down and chiding those who disagreed with his claims.
He was acting like a Footer so much I thought he was actually doing some sort of parody.
However, in the end, when he had no more fantasies to spin and no-one was actually buying into his wild claims - he bailed. Just like a Footer.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:50 AM   #2218
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
With respect - there is no direct evidence supporting any of your post. As sceptics - we should at least try and have a higher standard of evidence than the Footers.
After all - my contractor source told me DeAtley was a strategically shaved Bigfoot who had Patterson's body embalmed and kept it in a display case in his home.

Kit supplied absolutely no evidence to back up his later claims. Like the Footers - he promised a giant awe-inspiring reveal and kept doubling down and chiding those who disagreed with his claims.
He was acting like a Footer so much I thought he was actually doing some sort of parody.
However, in the end, when he had no more fantasies to spin and no-one was actually buying into his wild claims - he bailed. Just like a Footer.
Agreeded I was just trying to clarify what the story was. No doubt that the faithful at BFF (Bigfoot Fantasy w/Friends) didn't buy into it.
Wild claims....meh if you say so, the way you compare the two is pretty dramatic/disingenuous.

Giant monkey man roaming the U.S.!
Well regarded rich dude, who was the brother in law who funded a film that was peddled by Roger Patterson as a real Bigfoot, hiding evidence that it was fake!
These two things are the same in your mind....okey-dokey.


Your saying there's no evidence that DeAtley didn't fund PGF and it's subsequent national tour?

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Old 12th November 2019, 12:56 PM   #2219
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
And if we take Kitakaze at his word, was DeAtley not in possession of "the suit"?
Extraordinary how key words and phrases can so often be ignored.
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Old 12th November 2019, 01:22 PM   #2220
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Extraordinary how key words and phrases can so often be ignored.
Yeah, i noticed that.
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Old 12th November 2019, 03:46 PM   #2221
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Extraordinary how key words and phrases can so often be ignored.
Talk about pot/kettle!

What part of: "I'm not sure I would consider such a claim even remotely valid without some sort of hard evidence." did you take as me ignoring your bit about taking Kit at his word?
I was obviously referring to my opinion about Kit's veracity - not yours.
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Old 12th November 2019, 03:53 PM   #2222
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Agreeded I was just trying to clarify what the story was. No doubt that the faithful at BFF (Bigfoot Fantasy w/Friends) didn't buy into it.
Wild claims....meh if you say so, the way you compare the two is pretty dramatic/disingenuous.

Giant monkey man roaming the U.S.!
Well regarded rich dude, who was the brother in law who funded a film that was peddled by Roger Patterson as a real Bigfoot, hiding evidence that it was fake!
These two things are the same in your mind....okey-dokey.


Your saying there's no evidence that DeAtley didn't fund PGF and it's subsequent national tour?
Not saying those things I hi-lighted are false - but perhaps you could provide proof of those claims? Cancelled checks, cash withdrawals and/or deposits, sworn statements by people who were there; or, are you just going to take someone's unverified stories as proof?
We seem to have a different standard of scepticism in these threads when the narrative fits into our own beliefs that is a little hypocritical - to say the least.

Edit - I'm not getting into a debate about the PGF and the events surrounding it. It was a fake - no doubt about it. But I am also not willing to be part of lynch mob denigrating DeAtley's life because of some unproven allegations bandied about by unknown posters on an erroneously named Sceptics forum.
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Last edited by rockinkt; 12th November 2019 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 12th November 2019, 09:08 PM   #2223
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Not saying those things I hi-lighted are false - but perhaps you could provide proof of those claims? Cancelled checks, cash withdrawals and/or deposits, sworn statements by people who were there; or, are you just going to take someone's unverified stories as proof?
We seem to have a different standard of scepticism in these threads when the narrative fits into our own beliefs that is a little hypocritical - to say the least.

Edit - I'm not getting into a debate about the PGF and the events surrounding it. It was a fake - no doubt about it. But I am also not willing to be part of lynch mob denigrating DeAtley's life because of some unproven allegations bandied about by unknown posters on an erroneously named Sceptics forum.
Your criteria for establishing DeAtelys participation in the PGF is absurd. While I fully appreciate what your trying to say, I'm not sure I understanding your emotional reaction to the subject, but hey that's your gig.

DeAtley supporting PGF is well documented. If one believes it's a hoax, then all parties participated in that fraud. It's just a matter of to what extent.

Money was made off PGF, is that not self evident or are you looking for cashed checks, and bank deposits?....thats the absurd part again.

Kits claim that DeAtley having the suit would make sense, he had the most to lose if the fraud was exposed, impacting his reputation and legally if sued. I'm not sure who would sue anyone for committing this type of fraud. Certainly any legal issues have long since become a none issue.

Kits declaration about the suit while premature was very interesting to see play out over at BFF (Bigfoot Fantasy w/Friends). Bill Munns, the has been make-up artist/PGF head doofus in charge was offered the chance to examine the suit, if Kit could pull it off. He declined claiming poverty, go figure, a dude who's life appears to revolve around this one subject couldn't scrap together the money to make a 300-500 mile journey, to examine a suit used in one of the greatest hoaxes in history.

Lynch mob denigrating some dead rich dude.....your perception of reality is fascinating, way to take a stand.

Last edited by Cervelo; 12th November 2019 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 18th November 2019, 12:43 AM   #2224
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Your criteria for establishing DeAtelys participation in the PGF is absurd. While I fully appreciate what your trying to say, I'm not sure I understanding your emotional reaction to the subject, but hey that's your gig.

DeAtley supporting PGF is well documented. If one believes it's a hoax, then all parties participated in that fraud. It's just a matter of to what extent.

Money was made off PGF, is that not self evident or are you looking for cashed checks, and bank deposits?....thats the absurd part again.

Kits claim that DeAtley having the suit would make sense, he had the most to lose if the fraud was exposed, impacting his reputation and legally if sued. I'm not sure who would sue anyone for committing this type of fraud. Certainly any legal issues have long since become a none issue.

Kits declaration about the suit while premature was very interesting to see play out over at BFF (Bigfoot Fantasy w/Friends). Bill Munns, the has been make-up artist/PGF head doofus in charge was offered the chance to examine the suit, if Kit could pull it off. He declined claiming poverty, go figure, a dude who's life appears to revolve around this one subject couldn't scrap together the money to make a 300-500 mile journey, to examine a suit used in one of the greatest hoaxes in history.

Lynch mob denigrating some dead rich dude.....your perception of reality is fascinating, way to take a stand.
"Well documented" in this case means many people repeating the same story. There is no direct evidence supporting any of the claims that you are repeating.
In real life - "well documented" means that there is hard evidence in the form of official or semi-official paperwork. Bank statements, written/signed agreements/ tax statements, statutory declarations, etc.

I am not stating that many different story-lines about the hows and whys of the hoax are not possible. Some are even probable. Some might be very close to the truth. I am just stating that as sceptics we should be cognizant about the need to not state things as fact if they do not meet the basics of what one would consider evidence.

Please do not try and lecture me about Bill Munns. I was the first to call out Bill Munns as a fraud way back when he first started. His approach to the people at BFF fit all the classic con-man moves and as a former cop specializing in fraud investigations for 7 years I recognized the pattern.

Please do not continue the personal attacks. I am trying to discuss this in a reasonable way using arguments backed by facts and logical reasoning. You know - like a sceptic.
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt

Last edited by rockinkt; 18th November 2019 at 12:46 AM. Reason: grammer,clarity
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Old 18th November 2019, 08:07 AM   #2225
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Rockinkt,

It is documented. Here is official paperwork, in the form of a court document stipulating that Al Deatley was a 1/3 partner.


If someone knows how to archive a pdf link to the court documents:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/15..._LegalDocs.pdf
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Old 19th November 2019, 06:29 AM   #2226
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
"Well documented" in this case means many people repeating the same story. There is no direct evidence supporting any of the claims that you are repeating.
In real life - "well documented" means that there is hard evidence in the form of official or semi-official paperwork. Bank statements, written/signed agreements/ tax statements, statutory declarations, etc.

I am not stating that many different story-lines about the hows and whys of the hoax are not possible. Some are even probable. Some might be very close to the truth. I am just stating that as sceptics we should be cognizant about the need to not state things as fact if they do not meet the basics of what one would consider evidence.

Please do not try and lecture me about Bill Munns. I was the first to call out Bill Munns as a fraud way back when he first started. His approach to the people at BFF fit all the classic con-man moves and as a former cop specializing in fraud investigations for 7 years I recognized the pattern.

Please do not continue the personal attacks. I am trying to discuss this in a reasonable way using arguments backed by facts and logical reasoning. You know - like a sceptic.
I'm not making this personal but your near hysterics in regard to this subject can't help but be noted
Your claim of a lynch mob going after Al DeAtley is absurd
Your claim of me lecturing you in regards to Munns is absurd
Your request for any documentation for Al DeAtley's participation in PGF is absurd
You don't set the the bar for evidence supporting his participation in PGF or for skeptical inquiry but you seem to be pretty good at lecturing others about it.

I haven't seen you present anything remotely based on facts or logic just a lot of emotional hand waving, having seen this behaviour from others, I can't help but be reminded of this response that was posted to this style of debate.....I wish I could credit the original poster.

"It's as if you are a singularly fantastic presence on the planet. I'm skeptical of virtually everything that you say. You talk about yourself all the time here, so the arguments are drawn onto you rather than the object of your claims. It tests the forum guideline of "attack the argument, not the arguer" because you force the argument to be about you based on personal anecdotal experience."

Thx to Drew for posting the above, that's the tip of an iceberg of support for Al DeAtley's participation in PGF. Anyone with an Internet connection could verify it for themselves if they had an interest in the facts, but I'm not convinced that's what this is about.....I'm not really sure what it's about LOL!

Last edited by Cervelo; 19th November 2019 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 19th November 2019, 10:41 AM   #2227
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
...I can't help but be reminded of this response that was posted to this style of debate.....I wish I could credit the original poster.

"It's as if you are a singularly fantastic presence on the planet. I'm skeptical of virtually everything that you say. You talk about yourself all the time here, so the arguments are drawn onto you rather than the object of your claims. It tests the forum guideline of "attack the argument, not the arguer" because you force the argument to be about you based on personal anecdotal experience."
Your wish has been granted.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:11 PM   #2228
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Parcher, which post? I just read all of page 86 and couldn't find it
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:18 PM   #2229
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Post #3430 on Page 86.

ETA: You should have known that the quote is Parcher-style.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:22 PM   #2230
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Post #3430 on Page 86.

ETA: You should have known that the quote is Parcher-style.
Fantastic.

Amazing how close to the actual quote Cervelo was.
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:00 PM   #2231
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Amazing how close to the actual quote Cervelo was.
Close? It's the exact same thing word-for-word. That's because it's a copy-paste.

I suspect that Cervelo saved what I wrote long ago and then couldn't remember where or who the words came from. Maybe there is another explanation.
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Old 20th November 2019, 05:35 AM   #2232
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I'm sorry, I'm stuck rereading the Wood Ape thread since you posted that...
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:42 AM   #2233
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Close? It's the exact same thing word-for-word. That's because it's a copy-paste.

I suspect that Cervelo saved what I wrote long ago and then couldn't remember where or who the words came from. Maybe there is another explanation.
Indeed it's one of my favorites, I'll make sure your given credit in the future.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:51 AM   #2234
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Indeed it's one of my favorites, I'll make sure your given credit in the future.
It doesn't really matter to me if you credit or not. I wouldn't even have said anything if you hadn't mentioned that you wished you could give credit.

There were also three other occasions that you used that quote without credit but I said nothing.
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Old 20th November 2019, 11:05 AM   #2235
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There were also three other occasions that you used that quote without credit but I said nothing.
Haha – No tricks missed by our own Willy Parcher!

In other news, the word "if" has only two letters but those letters can be really effective in saving people a lot of needless aggravation.
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Old 6th April 2020, 04:05 PM   #2236
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In Jan 2020 in Longview WA Gimlin made this claim. Is this new?
Quote:
He stands by the story, though, along with a second encounter with Bigfoot he had about 10 years later while camping along the Pacific Crest Trail.

“I put my tent up that night. There was a half moon in the sky,” Gimlin said. “I looked up through the tent and a Bigfoot was standing right there (looking in). By the time I got my boots on, it was gone.”
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Old 6th April 2020, 04:26 PM   #2237
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AFAIK, he had never claimed a different Bigfoot encounter before. I think he described seeing Patty as being his confirmation of their existence.
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Old 6th April 2020, 08:16 PM   #2238
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It certainly has a ring of truth about it though.

Why would bigfoot wait for him to get his boots on? That would contradict most of the published behavioral studies which suggest a more elusive creature.
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Old 7th April 2020, 12:24 PM   #2239
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Quote:
How fitting that the man often credited with saying “a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” most likely did not invent the phrase.

Commonly attributed to Mark Twain, that quotation instead appears to be a descendant of a line published centuries ago by the satirist Jonathan Swift.
Link
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Old 8th April 2020, 03:38 AM   #2240
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
It certainly has a ring of truth about it though.

Why would bigfoot wait for him to get his boots on? That would contradict most of the published behavioral studies which suggest a more elusive creature.
I imagine it's because there is a certain comedy value in watching these overweight doofuses struggling to reach their feet.
Once BF realised Gimlin was in better shape than most of his peers, he would have wandered off in search of something more interesting, like a cabin he could throw rocks at.
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