ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Australia politics , geert wilders , immigration issues , Islam issues

Reply
Old 20th February 2013, 12:16 PM   #1
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
 
Earthborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 6,081
Any Aussies care about Geert Wilders visit?

Dutch anti-Islam (anti-EU, anti-Polish) politician Geert Wilders is visiting Australia. What have the Australian members of the forum heard of this, and how much do they care?
__________________
Perhaps nothing is entirely true; and not even that!
Multatuli
Earthborn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2013, 12:45 PM   #2
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
 
Akhenaten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia
Posts: 29,685
He seems like a bit of a ratbag, so do some of the protestors and so does the person who wrote in the linked article such sensationalist nonsense as, "Up to 60 police then formed a ring of steel around the venue, as Mr Wilders spoke inside."

A trifecta of fail.
__________________


Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon
Akhenaten is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2013, 01:41 PM   #3
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 42,352
The mainstream politicians are avoiding him like the plague. Except for Cori Bernardi, from the Liberal Party, who is attracted to people like Geert like a fly to honey.

His message that we need to ensure our freedom by depriving others of theirs seems to be intuitively flawed.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2013, 01:45 PM   #4
Hallo Alfie
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,691
Meh...
Hallo Alfie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2013, 03:01 AM   #5
Wildy
Adelaidean
 
Wildy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,999
What Alfie said.
__________________
Wildy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2013, 03:04 AM   #6
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
I'm not an Aussie, but I don't!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2013, 05:12 AM   #7
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,305
Whatever he has to say probably wouldn't make it past the CT section in this forum.

However, there is a concerted effort to prevent him making his POV public. This might make some people suspicious that he has a valid message that the authorities are trying to suppress.

I would never have heard of David Irving if the Australian government hadn't made a big noise about keeping him out of the country.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2013, 05:44 AM   #8
Hallo Alfie
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,691
I don't care much for his message, but I am concerned that others would try and silence him.
Hallo Alfie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2013, 06:01 PM   #9
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 48,029
Giving him all this free publicity is just what the jerk wants.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2013, 06:08 PM   #10
332nd
Penultimate Amazing
 
332nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,278
I'll admit it. I read it as "Gene Wilder", read the replies, & was ready to insist you were all humourless heathens.
__________________
The poster formerly known as Redtail
332nd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2013, 07:48 PM   #11
Noztradamus
Illuminator
 
Noztradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,680
Not a lot.

I maintain the illusion that it's still a free country.
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
Noztradamus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2013, 08:07 PM   #12
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,932
Originally Posted by Earthborn View Post
Dutch anti-Islam (anti-EU, anti-Polish) politician Geert Wilders is visiting Australia. What have the Australian members of the forum heard of this, and how much do they care?
Quote:
Protesters call Dutch MP Geert Wilders a racist as he calls for end to mass migration from Islamic countries
Does Australia allow "mass migration from Islamic countries"?

How is this not hypocrisy?
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2013, 11:50 PM   #13
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,305
I think The Australian forgot to put scare quotes around "mass migration".
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2013, 12:05 AM   #14
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
 
Earthborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 6,081
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Except for Cori Bernardi, from the Liberal Party, who is attracted to people like Geert like a fly to honey.
In that sentence I would have mentioned a different substance that tends to attract more flies...

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
However, there is a concerted effort to prevent him making his POV public.
Is there? Explain.

Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Does Australia allow "mass migration from Islamic countries"?
I guess as much as the Netherlands does, which is to say not at all.
__________________
Perhaps nothing is entirely true; and not even that!
Multatuli
Earthborn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2013, 05:03 AM   #15
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,305
Originally Posted by Earthborn View Post
Is there? Explain.
Wilders' Perth gig cancelled
Barnett accepts 'some role' for cancelled speech

The irony is that because of actions like these, Wilders doesn't have to say a word for some people to believe him.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2013, 05:11 AM   #16
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,474
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Wilders' Perth gig cancelled
Barnett accepts 'some role' for cancelled speech

The irony is that because of actions like these, Wilders doesn't have to say a word for some people to believe him.
Barnett's an idiot who isn't suited to be mayor of Dingo Spit shire. For him to think he has struck some mighty blow against, er.....something.......anything, is simply laughable. More unearned publicity for Wilders. Well done Mayor Quimby.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2013, 05:43 AM   #17
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,305
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Barnett's an idiot who isn't suited to be mayor of Dingo Spit shire. For him to think he has struck some mighty blow against, er.....something.......anything, is simply laughable. More unearned publicity for Wilders. Well done Mayor Quimby.
For once, I agree with you 100%.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2013, 07:41 AM   #18
Damien Evans
Up The Irons
Tagger
 
Damien Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 34,458
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Does Australia allow "mass migration from Islamic countries"?

How is this not hypocrisy?
Since the White Australia Policy was consigned to the dustbin of history we've had a steady flow of Islamic immigrants, though not in nearly the same numbers as Southern Europeans and South-East Asians. Today there are nearly 500,000 Muslims in Australia, mostly with Turkish, Lebanese or Bosnian heritage. Islam is the 4th largest Religious grouping, behind the combined forms of Christianity, No Religion and Buddhism.

Prior to this in the 19th century a significant number (about 3,000, pretty large in the context of the times and remoteness of the areas they lived) of Pakistani/Afghani Muslims settled in the remote areas as stockmen and camel train drivers. This is why today the overland train line between Adelaide and Darwin is known as The Ghan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_%28Australia%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghan
__________________
i loves the little birdies they goes tweet tweet tweet hee hee i loves them they sings to each other tweet twet tweet hee hee i loves them they is so cute i love yje little birdies little birdies in the room when birfies sings ther is no gloom i lobes the little birdies they goess tweet tweet tweet hee hee hee i loves them they sings me to sleep sing me to slrrp now little birdies - The wisdom of Shemp.
Damien Evans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2013, 09:56 PM   #19
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 18,198
He finally found someone who cared.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 02:00 AM   #20
Natan
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,121
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Whatever he has to say probably wouldn't make it past the CT section in this forum.
Maybe.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
However, there is a concerted effort to prevent him making his POV public. This might make some people suspicious that he has a valid message that the authorities are trying to suppress.
They are trying to suppress it. Those calling for jihad get more freedom of speech than those opposing muslims.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I would never have heard of David Irving if the Australian government hadn't made a big noise about keeping him out of the country.
The UK kept Wilders out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7885918.stm

Last edited by Natan; 25th February 2013 at 02:02 AM.
Natan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 03:21 AM   #21
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,305
Originally Posted by Simon666 View Post
Those calling for jihad get more freedom of speech than those opposing muslims.
"Freedom of speech" means the freedom to say anything that is politically correct.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 09:01 AM   #22
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
 
Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,408
Originally Posted by Simon666 View Post
They are trying to suppress it. Those calling for jihad get more freedom of speech than those opposing muslims.
I've seen this a lot, although lately it has been less than in the past. For some reason, Islamic-fundy nutcases who hate gays, love violence and want religious law are coddled while christian-fundy nutcases who want the same are rightly called out for the cranks they are.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain
Tony is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 04:31 PM   #23
Hallo Alfie
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,691
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I've seen this a lot, although lately it has been less than in the past. For some reason, Islamic-fundy nutcases who hate gays, love violence and want religious law are coddled while christian-fundy nutcases who want the same are rightly called out for the cranks they are.
I know virtually zero about Wilders. I wholeheartedly agree with the above, but as I understand it, Islam (as a religion/ideology) calls for and/or condones: female genital mutilation, death to non Islams, an Islam state run by religious doctrine, death to gays, subjugation of woman and so on.
If Christianity (or anyone else for that matter) called for these we would be demanding people's heads. It seems to me that our society lends itself to Christian teachings and vice versa because it was essentially based on those teachings.

If Wilders has a point, it is why is there no uproar about these offensive ideals in a western democracy; are they consistent with our values? And if not, what is to be done (I think he suggests ceasing Moslem immigration) and is there evidence of successful integration?

Last edited by Hallo Alfie; 25th February 2013 at 04:41 PM.
Hallo Alfie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 05:03 PM   #24
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
I know virtually zero about Wilders. I wholeheartedly agree with the above, but as I understand it, Islam (as a religion/ideology) calls for and/or condones: female genital mutilation, death to non Islams, an Islam state run by religious doctrine, death to gays, subjugation of woman and so on.
No, it doesn't. "Islam" is not a single monolithic thing.

Quote:
If Christianity (or anyone else for that matter) called for these we would be demanding people's heads.
Plenty of Christians actually do call for these things, and there's not nearly as much condemnation as there ought to be. Especially in my country (in fact, there's quite a large overlap here between those who most vociferously condemn those things in Islam, and those who favor most of those things as long as it's Christians who do it).

Quote:
And if not, what is to be done (I think he suggests ceasing Moslem immigration) and is there evidence of successful integration?
Islam has been established in your country for at a century and a half. The mosque in Addelaide was built before your country was even independent.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 05:11 PM   #25
Hallo Alfie
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,691
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
No, it doesn't. "Islam" is not a single monolithic thing.
The Qu'ran is not a single thing? That is where the teachings come from.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Plenty of Christians actually do call for these things, and there's not nearly as much condemnation as there ought to be.
If that were true, I would wholeheartedly agree. I have yet to see a Christian call for female genital mutilation.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Especially in my country (in fact, there's quite a large overlap here between those who most vociferously condemn those things in Islam, and those who favor most of those things as long as it's Christians who do it).
I find that very hard to believe, but what that has to do with Australia is another issue altogether. Our Christian community here is not as fundamental or vocal as those elsewhere.

That aside, it seems to me you are saying "our Christians do it, so it's ok for others to do it too". I will happily be corrected.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Islam has been established in your country for at a century and a half. The mosque in Addelaide was built before your country was even independent.
That's nice. But does it prove broad integration?

Last edited by Hallo Alfie; 25th February 2013 at 05:14 PM.
Hallo Alfie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 05:29 PM   #26
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 18,198
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
The Qu'ran is not a single thing? That is where the teachings come from.

So is the Bible. People come to all kinds of conclusion about that, from beating their children so they don't end up in hell while awaiting the rapture, to struggle for justice for the oppressed while following the golden rule.

The likes of Wilders pretend that there is one definitive way to understand the Koran, which flies into the face of the very essence of Islamic studies over the millenia, and has striking similarities to what the Nazis accused the Jews of. It's in the Talmud, they eat babies, and they struggle for world domination, and they are allowed to lie to reach their nefarious goals. You can't trust any of THEM. Sick and dangerous.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 05:42 PM   #27
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
The Qu'ran is not a single thing? That is where the teachings come from.
There's no one interpretation of the Qur'an. That is, in fact, partly why "Islam" is not a monolithic thing.

Quote:
If that were true, I would wholeheartedly agree. I have yet to see a Christian call for female genital mutilation.
You should visit Tanzania sometime, where the prevalence of FGM among daughters of Christian women is higher than among daughters of Muslim women.

The horrific problem of FGM is not a problem of religion.

Quote:
I find that very hard to believe, but what that has to do with Australia is another issue altogether. Our Christian community here is not as fundamental or vocal as those elsewhere.
Then maybe you shouldn't use such broad labels encompassing entire religions when discussing the activities of a specific subset within those religions.

Quote:
That aside, it seems to me you are saying "our Christians do it, so it's ok for others to do it too". I will happily be corrected.
No, it's not okay when anyone does it.

I'm just not foolish enough to blame a religion as a whole and all it's billion-plus members for what some of those members are doing and saying, and merely pointing out that there's more than just the particular double-standard Tony claims exists going on here.

Quote:
That's nice. But does it prove broad integration?
Muslims in Australia
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 06:02 PM   #28
wombatwal
Graduate Poster
 
wombatwal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Van Squad
Posts: 1,484
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
I know virtually zero about Wilders. I wholeheartedly agree with the above, but as I understand it, Islam (as a religion/ideology) calls for and/or condones: female genital mutilation,
As far as I know Alfie, FGM is not an Islam thing.
It is cultural, and I think cultural to Northern Africa irrespective of religion.
I do stand to be corrected though.
__________________
http://500px.com/Bruce_Wallace

Put him in the van.
wombatwal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 06:12 PM   #29
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by wombatwal View Post
As far as I know Alfie, FGM is not an Islam thing.
It is cultural, and I think cultural to Northern Africa irrespective of religion.
I do stand to be corrected though.
Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting: A statistical exploration
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 08:17 PM   #30
Hallo Alfie
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,691
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
You should visit Tanzania sometime, where the prevalence of FGM among daughters of Christian women is higher than among daughters of Muslim women.
I thought we were talking about Muslims in Australia.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
The horrific problem of FGM is not a problem of religion.
Perhaps not. But I do not hear of Christian, Buddhist or Hindu priests in Australia calling for it.

Originally Posted by wombatwal View Post
As far as I know Alfie, FGM is not an Islam thing.
It is cultural, and I think cultural to Northern Africa irrespective of religion.
I do stand to be corrected though.
Again, we are talking about Australia.
Hallo Alfie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th February 2013, 11:41 PM   #31
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Funny, you didn't seem quite so keen on making sure things were limited to just Australia when you claimed that "Islam (as a religion/ideology)" was all for FGM and killing "non Islams".

Perhaps you ought to be more careful with your terminology in the future, to avoid any more such confusion.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 12:05 AM   #32
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,474
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Funny, you didn't seem quite so keen on making sure things were limited to just Australia when you claimed that "Islam (as a religion/ideology)" was all for FGM and killing "non Islams".

Perhaps you ought to be more careful with your terminology in the future, to avoid any more such confusion.
Absolutely. The sort of stuff Alfie is posting is almost word for word from the right-wing shock jock playbook.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 12:07 AM   #33
Hallo Alfie
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,691
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Funny, you didn't seem quite so keen on making sure things were limited to just Australia when you claimed that "Islam (as a religion/ideology)" was all for FGM and killing "non Islams".

Perhaps you ought to be more careful with your terminology in the future, to avoid any more such confusion.
Gee, I'd have thought when discussing Islam in Australia, Girt Wilders in Australia, integration and assimilation in Australia, when you yourself provide a link about 'Muslims in Australia', not to mention your reference to a Mosque in Adelaide (which surprisingly is in Australia), references to the White Australia policy etc etc ..... you know, I really would have thought this was self evident.
Hallo Alfie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 12:10 AM   #34
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,474
Hang on, your comment was "Islam calls for", not "Islam as practiced in Australia and nowhere else in the world calls for". You were rightly called on this broadbrush.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 12:11 AM   #35
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,305
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
Meh...
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
Islam (as a religion/ideology) calls for and/or condones: female genital mutilation, death to non Islams, an Islam state run by religious doctrine, death to gays, subjugation of woman and so on.
That Geert Wilders sure is persuasive. He didn't have to say a word to persuade Alfie.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 12:36 AM   #36
Hallo Alfie
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,691
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Hang on, your comment was "Islam calls for", not "Islam as practiced in Australia and nowhere else in the world calls for". You were rightly called on this broadbrush.
Rubbish. I believe I was clear enough as was the topic. If others wish to meander off that is not my problem.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That Geert Wilders sure is persuasive. He didn't have to say a word to persuade Alfie.
Wilders has nothing to do with my views. It is interesting however that we would now choose to attack anyone who thinks the more extreme and vile teachings of Islam are not the problem, but simply raising them as a problem are.
If Christianity proposed these things and actively sought to implement them here in Australia, there would rightly be outcry.

Last edited by Hallo Alfie; 26th February 2013 at 12:39 AM.
Hallo Alfie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 05:32 AM   #37
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
Gee, I'd have thought when discussing Islam in Australia, Girt Wilders in Australia, integration and assimilation in Australia, when you yourself provide a link about 'Muslims in Australia', not to mention your reference to a Mosque in Adelaide (which surprisingly is in Australia), references to the White Australia policy etc etc ..... you know, I really would have thought this was self evident.
Even in that context, your comments about "Islam (as a religion/ideology)" are still incorrect and painting with a broad brush. Muslims in Australia aren't any more single-minded and monolithic than they are worldwide. The grandchildren of the Albanian Muslim immigrants who came in the 20's aren't like the children of the Turkish Muslims who came in the 70's, and neither of them are like the newly-arrived Muslims born in Lebanon. And they, in turn, are different from the author of the book I cited, a Bangladesh-born naturalized Australian citizen. And some members of my own family live far closer to you than they do to me, having emigrated from Egypt to New Zealand in the 80's.

And my bringing up the Adelaide mosque and that book recommendation were an attempt to point out just how Muslims have integrated into your own county, to give you a local reference in answer to your specific question about integration.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 08:55 AM   #38
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
 
Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,408
Originally Posted by Hallo Alfie View Post
Rubbish. I believe I was clear enough as was the topic. If others wish to meander off that is not my problem.
What you're witnessing is the double-standard in action. Notice how the Islamic-fundy apologists are belaboring the point that you didn't go out of your way to word your language such that you precisely identify that you are talking about Islamic fundamentalism in Australia despite the context. Such considerations are not given when the conversation is about Christian fundamentalism. Everyone knows that the conversation is about the extremism and not about every single individual Christian or every single interpretation of Christianity that may exist. Only with Islam is bandwidth wasted on such BS. Why? It is because Islam is coddled while Christianity isn't. Maybe Christianity would get the same treatment if Christian extremists rioted every time someone criticized Yahweh in a Facebook status update or political cartoon.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

Last edited by Tony; 26th February 2013 at 09:01 AM.
Tony is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 09:34 AM   #39
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
 
A'isha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,221
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
What you're witnessing is the double-standard in action. Notice how the Islamic-fundy apologists are belaboring the point that you didn't go out of your way to word your language such that you precisely identify that you are talking about Islamic fundamentalism in Australia despite the context.
Because, as evidenced by statements of his like "The Qu'ran is not a single thing? That is where the teachings come from" and being quite clear that he was talking about "Islam (as a religion/ideology)", he wasn't.

Quote:
Such considerations are not given when the conversation is about Christian fundamentalism. Everyone knows that the conversation is about the extremism and not about every single individual Christian or every single interpretation of Christianity that may exist. Only with Islam is bandwidth wasted on such BS. Why? It is because Islam is coddled while Christianity isn't.
No, it's because people raised in a Christian culture are more aware of the distinctions and divisions within Christianity and more likely to either be specific or make it directly clear what they're talking about, while "Islam" to most non-Muslims is this monolithic Other with just a single interpretation that all Muslims must adhere to.

And your intense hostility towards anyone who points this out and your repeated use of insulting labels like "Islamic-fundy apologists" whenever it happens mystifies me. At the very least you could channel your anger into efforts that will actually help.
__________________
When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus

"Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni
A'isha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:31 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.