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Old Yesterday, 10:40 AM   #3201
Gaetan
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Gaetan, we live in a civilized society. We have houses and buildings and roads. There isn't any wild game to hunt and gather. We go to markets to purchase food.

But since markets are for profit businesses, they won't exist in your no money world.
Why not?
Quote:
Where will people get food from?
From producers

Quote:
They will wind up looting and stealing from people who have food resources.
There would no reason to steal, all we have to do is to produce enough food

Quote:
Your no money idea will plunge the world into chaos and violence.
Why, if every thing are free of charge there will be no violence
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Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM   #3202
The Great Zaganza
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There will always be currency in one form or another.
If it isn't money, it is land, slaves, women, honor, privileges, prestige, rank or whatever.

Abolishing money just shifts the dynamics to a different medium.
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Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM   #3203
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Why not?
Because companies that are for profit will close their doors when there is no money to be made.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
From producers
Produce what? You can't raise livestock and grow crops on the streets of New York city or Los Angeles.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
There would no reason to steal, all we have to do is to produce enough food
Of course there's a reason to steal. If I beat you up and take your food, I don't have to work. Might makes right.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Why, if every thing are free of charge there will be no violence
Before money was invented, people were violent as it was a world where the fittest survived. It was the use of money that helped people become civilized and where society started to become modern.

Money is a civilized way to make exchanges and trades.
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Old Yesterday, 11:17 AM   #3204
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Because companies that are for profit will close their doors when there is no money to be made.



Produce what? You can't raise livestock and grow crops on the streets of New York city or Los Angeles.



Of course there's a reason to steal. If I beat you up and take your food, I don't have to work. Might makes right.



Before money was invented, people were violent as it was a world where the fittest survived. It was the use of money that helped people become civilized and where society started to become modern.

Money is a civilized way to make exchanges and trades.
You have absolutely no proof to back up what you say.
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Old Yesterday, 11:25 AM   #3205
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You have absolutely no proof to back up what you say.
The irony....
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Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM   #3206
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Is there only right wing profiteers on this forum?
Do all religious have pudding for brains?
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Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM   #3207
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well, there could be some solution. like a certificate that you are doing a job. like: Gaetan and 'we' sending other people to work as golf players; then, obviously, the golf players; food producers; etc. but there is a slight problem that the food producers might not care much about Gaetan's and golf player's certificates. well then, certificates of a meaningful job. but... who will decide it?etc etc, just playing around with a few sentences, too lazy to write more

added: you see, will lazy comment writers considered a meaningful job?

Last edited by kayle; Yesterday at 11:45 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 12:14 PM   #3208
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Is there only right wing profiteers on this forum?
What is your plan to deal with them?
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Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM   #3209
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You have absolutely no proof to back up what you say.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...ter-gatherers/

Quote:
Prehistoric massacre hints at extreme violence among hunter-gatherers
Quote:
The scene was a lagoon on the shore of Lake Turkana in Kenya. The time about 10,000 years ago. One group of hunter-gatherers attacked and slaughtered another, leaving the dead with crushed skulls, embedded arrow or spear points, and other devastating wounds.

The dead, said the scientists who reported the discovery Wednesday in the journal Nature, seem to have been scattered in no apparent order, and eventually covered and preserved by sediment from the lake. Of 12 relatively complete skeletons, 10 showed signs of violent death, the scientists said. Partial remains of at least 15 other people were found at the site and are thought to have died in the same attack.


The bones at the lake, in northern Kenya, tell a tale of ferocity. One man was hit twice in the head by arrows or small spears and in the knee by a club. A woman, pregnant with a fetus that was between 24 and 36 weeks, was killed by a blow to the head, the fetal skeleton preserved in her abdomen. The position of her hands and feet suggest she may have been tied up before she was killed.

Violence has always been part of human behavior, but the origins of war are hotly debated. Some experts see it as deeply rooted in evolution, pointing to violent confrontations among groups of chimpanzees as clues to an ancestral predilection. Others emphasize the influence of complex and hierarchical human societies, and agricultural surpluses to be raided.

No one is suggesting that one discovery, at a place called Nataruk, will settle the argument, but it may be the first instance of a massacre in a foraging society. A discovery in Sudan from an earlier date found burials of victims of intergroup violence, but that society may have been more settled.

Marta Mirazon Lahr and Robert Foley, of Cambridge University and the Turkana Basin Institute in Nairobi, Kenya, and a team of other scientists, concluded in Nature that the find represented warfare among prehistoric hunter-gatherers.
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Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM   #3210
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Gaetan, we live in a civilized society. We have houses and buildings and roads. There isn't any wild game to hunt and gather. We go to markets to purchase food.

But since markets are for profit businesses, they won't exist in your no money world.
Why not?
Because they don't exist right now. A local market of that type does not exist near me for example, nor is there space to make one. Nearest such market to me is a good brisk 2 hour hike away and back. Then there is the fact that I can only haul so much on foot. Anyway, given at least some time to go, get and return, at least five hours of my day are gone. Then I have to sort and store it there goes another hour. Then I have to prep 3 squares a day. Given it is fresh produce, that is 1 hr prep plus 30 minutes eating per meal.

I also have to clean myself, my home and my clothes so there goes another 1 and a half hours.

I must also contribute my eight hours of labour a day to the community.

I must also sleep for eight hours.

And now there is a problem with GaetanWorldTM because I have already spent 28 hours of my day simply surviving.

I have yet to add in spending any quality time with friends or family, or any time at all.

But it gets worse. In I must spend the sabbath doing nothing but worshiping his god so that, in the remaining six days, I must work enough to cover that unproductive time. This adds another 4 hours for EACH of the remaining six days.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Quote:
Where will people get food from?
From producers
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Who distribute their produce at a market. We are back to the same place.
Yup. And who not incidentally have their very own 32 hour days of hard labour.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Quote:
They will wind up looting and stealing from people who have food resources.
There would no reason to steal, all we have to do is to produce enough food.
I can produce no food. I have no land nor the knowledge to do so. The only option I have is the 5 hour trek.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Quote:
Your no money idea will plunge the world into chaos and violence.
Why, if every thing are free of charge there will be no violence
Because it is much quicker to steal than endure 32 hour days of endless drudgery.
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Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM   #3211
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
The war in Irak was even worse. People in the past were fighting for territory and food but this could be counter by producing enough food and having free acces to ressources.

Last edited by Gaetan; Yesterday at 04:51 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 04:55 PM   #3212
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
People in the past were fighting for territory and food but this could be counter by producing enough food and having free acces to ressources.
People in a no-money barbarian society will also fight for food and territory. Free access to resources will be reserved for the warlords.

Were you hoping to be a warlord or will you be content to clean all my toilets?
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Old Yesterday, 05:11 PM   #3213
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The war in Irak was even worse. People in the past were fighting for territory and food but this could be counter by producing enough food and having free acces to ressources.
You have absolutely no proof to back up what you say.

People fight for food and territory because they are limited resources.

People fight and some people even die on "black Friday" sales because they are all trying to get the 1 or 2 items that are "super cheap".

Try putting 10 starving families on grounds where there is only enough to feed one family. The strongest will eat and the rest will perish unless they find someone else they can overpower for resources.
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Old Yesterday, 05:39 PM   #3214
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
You have absolutely no proof to back up what you say.

People fight for food and territory because they are limited resources.

People fight and some people even die on "black Friday" sales because they are all trying to get the 1 or 2 items that are "super cheap".

Try putting 10 starving families on grounds where there is only enough to feed one family. The strongest will eat and the rest will perish unless they find someone else they can overpower for resources.
The war in Irak killed hundreds of thousand people then you can't say that we are in a civilized world with money. Producers can feed every body on earth but they wait for money to do that. If they would work free of charge every one would have food.
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Old Yesterday, 08:09 PM   #3215
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The war in Irak killed hundreds of thousand people then you can't say that we are in a civilized world with money. Producers can feed every body on earth but they wait for money to do that. If they would work free of charge every one would have food.
They won't work for free of charge. End of story.
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Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM   #3216
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
They won't work for free of charge. End of story.
And that cause starvation in the world
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Old Yesterday, 08:32 PM   #3217
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
And that cause starvation in the world
So why do you want to cause starvation in the world?
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 PM   #3218
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
So why do you want to cause starvation in the world?
I don't want to cause starvation, what i say is that because people need money to buy food that cause not only starvation but more children in the world can't eat enough food for their development and they are handicapped for their life.
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Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM   #3219
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I don't want to cause starvation, what i say is that because people need money to buy food that cause not only starvation but more children in the world can't eat enough food for their development and they are handicapped for their life.
Yes, you want to cause mass starvation and you want to see little Christian children die of barbarity. Anything to satisfy your weird religious messiah complex.

This is why religion should be abolished, as the brain and moral sucking leech that it is.
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Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM   #3220
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Yes, you want to cause mass starvation and you want to see little Christian children die of barbarity. Anything to satisfy your weird religious messiah complex.

This is why religion should be abolished, as the brain and moral sucking leech that it is.
That's what happen with your religious satanic beliefs. What you belief is all fool and make a hell of earth

Last edited by Gaetan; Yesterday at 10:03 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 10:06 PM   #3221
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That's what happen with your religious satanic beliefs. What you belief is all fool and make a hell of earth
You are correct that all religious beliefs are satanic and its believers are fools who want to destroy civilization.
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM   #3222
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
You are correct that all religious beliefs are satanic and its believers are fools who want to destroy civilization.
Fox media and other garbage made your mind completely satanic and fool, not all religions are satanic but yours is.

Last edited by Gaetan; Yesterday at 10:17 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 10:28 PM   #3223
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Fox media and other garbage made your mind completely satanic and fool, not all religions are satanic but yours is.
Your evil plan will never come to fruition so you lash out religiously.

I forgive you.
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Old Today, 12:12 AM   #3224
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I don't want to cause starvation, what i say is that because people need money to buy food that cause not only starvation but more children in the world can't eat enough food for their development and they are handicapped for their life.
You will cause starvation. People need money but you want to eliminate it.

Why can't you understand that money is just a way of exchanging that makes life easier?

If you helped me build a house, I could pay you with 50,000 apples but most of them would rot before you could consume them si it's better to give you money and you buy apples as you need them.

Money makes us efficient in trade and civilized.
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Old Today, 12:18 AM   #3225
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
If you helped me build a house, I could pay you with 50,000 apples but most of them would rot before you could consume them si it's better to give you money and you buy apples as you need them.

Money makes us efficient in trade and civilized.
You build the house for free and you put the apples on the market for whom wants it for free.
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Old Today, 12:20 AM   #3226
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You build the house for free and you put the apples on the market for whom wants it for free.
Perfect. I'll take them all since they're free.
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Old Today, 12:58 AM   #3227
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You build the house for free and you put the apples on the market for whom wants it for free.
Instead of making them free, I'll make apple pies and "give them to people" in exchange for promissory notes that they "owe" me labor. Then I can exchange those notes to get other resources that I need.

How's that work for you?
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Old Today, 01:27 AM   #3228
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Instead of making them free, I'll make apple pies and "give them to people" in exchange for promissory notes that they "owe" me labor. Then I can exchange those notes to get other resources that I need.

How's that work for you?
That looks like a satanic agreement and we got to get rid of Satan on earth.
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Old Today, 02:24 AM   #3229
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That looks like a satanic agreement and we got to get rid of Satan on earth.
what happened to the free market of ideas?

Cthulhu has just as much right to be heard as Yahweh.
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Old Today, 05:27 AM   #3230
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That looks like a satanic agreement and we got to get rid of Satan on earth.
Religion is satanic. We discussed this. Your satanic attempt to destroy the world has been successfully rebuffed. We got to get rid of religion.
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Old Today, 09:22 AM   #3231
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
And that cause starvation in the world
People aren't starving because we aren't producing enough food. They are starving because they lack resources to either trade for the food, or grow it themselves. The latter will always remain a fact, the former is not solved by reducing their resources further.

Well, actually, it is, since you will kill them off.
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Old Today, 11:18 AM   #3232
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That looks like a satanic agreement and we got to get rid of Satan on earth.
If paying someone wages for their work was satanic, why is it allowed in the Bible?

Quote:
The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
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Old Today, 02:18 PM   #3233
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The war in Irak was even worse. People in the past were fighting for territory and food but this could be counter by producing enough food and having free acces to ressources.
If you can't be bothered to spell "Iraq" correctly your opinion on any subject related to that nation isn't worth consideration.
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