ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old Today, 02:02 PM   #2321
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,284
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
You seem to be assuming here that Trump is going to act rationally, and to direct his staff to try to make a deal with the Dems. But, this is perhaps not taking ego considerations enough into account. Perhaps Trump is thinking: "I am the president, they should contact me, I am not the one who is supposed to be running after them".
I don't mean to speak for acbytesla, but I'd be surprised if he expects Trump to act rationally. It's been painfully obvious for a long time that Trump is perpetually irrational.

The notion that everyone else should cater to Trump's irrationality is, well, irrational. Especially when public opinion opposes Trump.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:11 PM   #2322
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,026
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I have to admit that I don't know all details of Washington politics...
I think its possible that you don't actually know ANY of the details of washington politics.
Quote:
...but I think there is a serious possibility that Trump didn't know himself fully the contents of the bill he vetoed.
Then why is he vetoing it?

Quote:
Also, it is possible that Trump is not (much) used to the process of finding information on the internet using Google, he is not an extremely careful person, and, sometimes, the right information may be very hard to find, even for people used to the process.
Seriously, your arguments all seem to be coming down to "Its the democrats fault because Trump is incompetent". That makes absolutely no sense.

Quote:
Also, we all know that, in discussions among people, there are things that just anger people, and there are things you can say to calm things and people down. It seems rather clear to me Pelosi and the Dems are maneuvering cynically to make Trump angry and to try to weaken him.
So you don't think its reasonable to expect a president to act in a rational manner rather than being overly emotional?
Quote:
They are systematically avoiding meetings...
They tried having a meeting with the president. The president said, to paraphrase, "I'm not getting what I want, with no negotiation, so I'm ending it". So what's the point in having more meetings with Trump?

Oh, and by the way, there are various meetings that are going on in congress to get around the deadlock. They just don't always involve Trump because, you know, incompetent racist and all.
Quote:
...they want to travel abroad or far from D.C.
As has been pointed out... congress-critters have more responsibilities than just the government and the shutdown. The planned trip to Europe and Afghanistan involved both diplomatic and fact-finding missions. something that is definitely in the wheelhouse of congress.
Quote:
Clearly, they are not seeking the "middle-of-the road" right compromise, though intense dialogue, they're more acting like political enemies. And this is made easier for them by an uncritical support of much of the Press, and many people.
Why should they compromise any more than they have when Trump has made it clear that he will not compromise at all?
Quote:
Presumably, Trump is interested is an effective physical barrier, and could be convinced to agree to any really effective (and not too expensive) barrier.
You presume wrong.

Trump is not interested in an inexpensive chain link or barbed wire fence. (And even if he was, it would still be a huge waste of money). He has made it clear that he wants a wall, either of concrete or steel slats.

No amount of apologizing that you do for him will change that fact.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:16 PM   #2323
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,844
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
You seem to be assuming here that Trump is going to act rationally, and to direct his staff to try to make a deal with the Dems. But, this is perhaps not taking ego considerations enough into account. Perhaps Trump is thinking: "I am the president, they should contact me, I am not the one who is supposed to be running after them".
What are they supposed to do? Put a gun to his head? I know it's tempting. But Secret Service might have an issue with that.
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:22 PM   #2324
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,446
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
You seem to be assuming here that Trump is going to act rationally, and to direct his staff to try to make a deal with the Dems. But, this is perhaps not taking ego considerations enough into account. Perhaps Trump is thinking: "I am the president, they should contact me, I am not the one who is supposed to be running after them".
You're probably right.

ETA: I mean to apply that to your second sentence, not your first. I'm not sure anyone here assumes Trump is ever going to act rationally.

Last edited by Minoosh; Today at 02:23 PM.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:49 PM   #2325
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 26,125
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I have to admit that I don't know all details of Washington politics, but I think there is a serious possibility that Trump didn't know himself fully the contents of the bill he vetoed. He may never read technical bills (Pelosi does have more the reputation of a "technician" in legal matters than him, I believe), and he may rely a lot on his advisors, who perhaps just told him "they're not giving you the $5 billion (or more) that you are demanding, Mr. President". Also, it is possible that Trump is not (much) used to the process of finding information on the internet using Google, he is not an extremely careful person, and, sometimes, the right information may be very hard to find, even for people used to the process.

Wait, what? Did you just argue that President Trump has neither the skills nor the resources to determine what is in a bill that he is holding in his hands?


Quote:
we all know that, in discussions among people, there are things that just anger people, and there are things you can say to calm things and people down.. It seems rather clear to me Pelosi and the Dems are maneuvering cynically to make Trump angry and to try to weaken him.
Being able to maintain one’s poise during discussions with Congress is one of the minimum requirements for being a competent president. Not being a good president, merely being a competent president.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

Last edited by Ladewig; Today at 02:50 PM.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:18 PM   #2326
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NeverLand
Posts: 14,992
Another perjury case, this time on the family separation policy. Everyone knew they were lying, but now there are documents:

Quote:
Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon announced Friday he had formally requested that the FBI investigate Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, accusing her of lying to Congress about the Trump administration's family separations.

On Thursday, Merkley released a previously unseen document dated December 2017, showing that top Department of Homeland Security officials drafted a memo of "policy options" that explicitly discussed a policy to "separate family units."

The draft suggested that officials "announce that DHS is considering separating family units, placing the adults in adult detention, and placing the minors under the age of 18 in the custody of [the Department of Health and Human Services] as unaccompanied alien children."

...

Merkley said in his statement that Nielsen's December 2018 testimony conflicted with the information found in the December 2017 memo.

"This policy, called 'Separate Family Units,' was specifically designed to gain media attention and generate a 'substantial deterrent effect,'" he said, adding that the FBI should "immediately investigate" whether Nielsen committed perjury and provided false statements to Congress.
Linky.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:19 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.