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Old 15th May 2019, 05:44 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
You're conflating. S&M is not inevitably associated with "punishment" or humiliation, nor is it even associated with such in the majority of scenes. You're once again displaying your ignorance here.




That's your own personal problem, and a demonstration of your prejudice, not my description.




That is, again, because you are speaking from ignorance and prejudice, rather than a sincere request for education, and why others in this thread are giving up on you. You seem to be obsessed with humiliation and degradation, regardless of the fact that you've been informed that this is not the only, nor even the most common, form of BDSM, and even when it does exist is simply playacting, like any other form of playacting.

I think perhaps your single-minded focus on humiliation and degradation say far more about you than it does about anything else.




Oh please, like the entertainment/tabloid media posing as news would ever pass up an opportunity to splatter any salacious BDSM accident all over the front pages. Look at how many dead celebs get put on blast after someone discovers they died during autoerotic asphyxiation.




Not even remotely.




And therein lies the root of your problem. You're assuming based on ignorance and prejudices. Which wouldn't be as bad if you hadn't demonstrated an unwillingness to examine said ignorance and prejudices when faced with contradictory facts.

Perhaps you should make the effort to educate yourself, before assuming anything.




Failing utterly to see what this has to do with anything that is being said in this thread. Again, you seem utterly obsessed with this one rare incident to the exclusion of all other facts. What does this say about you and your predilections?
Luchog, if he's wrong on all that how about you correct him rather than just tell him it's wrong. Might educate the rest of us at the same time.
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:47 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
(Dann, it stands to reason that anything you can learn from reading this thread, anyone else can also learn from reading this thread. Furthermore, unless someone is posting never before revealed super secret information to this thread, which is damned unlikely, the same can be learned from reading other discussions much like it elsewhere. This makes your seeming expectation to be given answers to your questions that no one could have learned elsewhere just by merely reading stuff seem a bit illogical.)

It stands to reason that anything I can learn from reading any ISF thread, anybody can also learn from reading the same thread. Nevertheless, some members of the ISF often post stuff that’s relevant to the theme being discussed, stuff that I didn't know till then, which I find to be both educational and entertaining. Isn't that why most of us are here?
What “seeming expectation” exactly? I ask because I’ve seen a number of weird ideas about my seeming expectation in this thread and most of them seem to be based on strawman presentations of what I've said rather than on any expectations I have mentioned.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:18 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You've read what some people in the BDSM community are saying. You clearly haven't read what other people in the BDSM community are saying. People like me, TragicMonkey and luchog, for example. Why do the words of some rando who had a bad experience outweigh the words of another rando who had a good experience? Why do you believe them and not us?

Yes, I’ve obviously only read what some are saying. Reading what TragicMonkey and luchog are saying, I’ve still only read what some are saying, and you yourself and TragicMonkey and luchog, too, have also only read what some are saying.
I don’t doubt that you have read more than I have, but I notice an unwillingness to deal with what ”some rando who had a bad experience” because of the way you describe the "rando", and that contributes to making her story credible: Apparently she did have (not a bad experience but) bad experiences, and the community's denial of it that she describes seems to be the same kind of denial that I see here.
Why should I believe you rather than them, i.e. Marcus and Black? I try to make it a question of understanding instead of belief, and you say, ‘but you have to trust us rather than them.’ That is also what astrologers and kinesiologists say. Black and Marcus don’t, which I appreciate.
Your question, “Why do you believe them and not us?,” is weird for another reason as well: You now pretend, like theprestige, that I just don’t believe you. However, what I have done all the way through this, and very patiently, is to present you with an argument whenever I think that someone is deviating from what appears to be the truth, not always in an attempt to lie, but often, probably, for the reason why people from all walks of life tend to use euphemisms to avoid dealing with reality.
So in each specific case where I say that I disagree with you, I also present you with the specific reason why I disagree with you in that case. Pretending that I just dismiss your accounts out of hand is very unfair. I would expect that way of presenting things from theprestige, that’s what he does, but not from you.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The difference is that astrology is fake. BDSM is very real.
I don’t doubt that BDSM exists. But I also don’t doubt that astrology exists. What I do doubt is that astrologers are reliable witnesses of anything other than how they feel about their experiences with astrology. When they tell me that something happened because Jupiter was here and Mars was there, I more than doubt the causation that they believe in. And it doesn’t make them more reliable when they tell me that they’ve been doing horoscopes for 25 years, and that I’m just ignorant. You know, the luchog way of arguing …
BDSM is very real as fantasy role playing, but that doesn’t give me any reason to trust statements from members of the community. Many of those statements are obvious euphemistic delusions. TragicMonkey’s description of it as utter selflessness is a case in point. In order to make sure that he understood that I didn’t dismiss his interpretation out of hand, I stated why I also don’t believe a similar description of ‘vanilla’ relationships.
I don’t think that denial and idealization is any more prevalent in the BDSM community than they are in the rest of the world, but that they’re there is obvious.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, and it shouldn't really need to be said, but I have a lot less actual experience in the scene than TragicMonkey or luchog, so if I ever say something that is contradicted by either of them, you should pay attention to them rather than me.

No, I shouldn’t. I look at people’s arguments as well as at their attitudes. When TragicMonkey and luchog present themselves as authorities because of their experience, it doesn’t really make the few attempts at explanations that they present any better than yours.
If you have spent decades finding justifications for whatever it is you’re doing, there’s a big chance that you have come to believe your own explanations over the years, but it doesn’t make them true.
And when they insist that they are experienced and I’m ignorant, it’s nothing but appeal to experience. And what they share isn’t really their experiences. It’s the conclusions that they have drawn based on those experiences. And many of those conclusions are wrong in my opinion, and I have explained why I think so.
Luchog’s first post contained some insights, but her/his (?) recent one is just arrogant.
And then there is theprestige, who is mainly worried that somebody might reveal something that wasn’t supposed to see the light of day:

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You're just supporting dann's idea of BDSM being wrongbad and inexplicable.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you doubt that the dysfunctionality of Fifty Shades will feed dann's argument?

It speaks volumes, but I can reassure you all that I have neither read the books nor watched the movies, and I also don’t intend to, so they won’t contaminate my ideas or feed my argument at all. By the way, theprestige’s attempt at describing “dann’s idea” is spectacularly wrong.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:21 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
<<Lots of stuff>>

I think the problem is that none of understand the form that you want the answer to take.

You ask questions, people answer, you berate them for not answering in a fashion that you deem proper and we go round again.

What form would you like the answer to take?
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:21 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Luchog, if he's wrong on all that how about you correct him rather than just tell him it's wrong. Might educate the rest of us at the same time.

No, we can't risk that! There's no way of telling what damage that might do:

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you doubt that the dysfunctionality of Fifty Shades will feed dann's argument?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:26 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Originally Posted by dann View Post
<<Lots of stuff>>
<<Stuff>>

What, me worry?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:29 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Luchog, if he's wrong on all that how about you correct him rather than just tell him it's wrong. Might educate the rest of us at the same time.

Correcting people is only worthwhile when it's not someone who immediately then tells you that you are wrong about your own experience. That is not the action of someone who is interested in learning, but of someone only interested in preaching.

"BDSM is very real as fantasy role playing, but that doesn’t give me any reason to trust statements from members of the community."

That is not the comments of someone who is interested in learning or correcting their misapprehensions.

And you clearly haven't read my posts very carefully, because I did lay out some basic info explaining why he was wrong, and which he summarily dismissed, reverting back to asserting the same misconceptions that people have repeatedly corrected throughout this thread.

If you want to educate yourself (which I'm taking at face value here, despite your posting history) and aren't just trolling, then there are a myriad of "sex positive"/"BDSM positive" resources which can do the job far better than I can. Especially in a venue that greatly restricts what I'm allowed to say on the subject.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:32 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Luchog’s first post contained some insights, but her/his (?) recent one is just arrogant.



Quote:
I don’t doubt that BDSM exists. But I also don’t doubt that astrology exists. What I do doubt is that astrologers are reliable witnesses of anything other than how they feel about their experiences with astrology.

Please explain what it is about BDSM that violates well-established principles of science, provide citations to support your assertion. if you can't do that, your analogy is beyond specious, and well into disingenuous territory. You're still doing nothing but preaching.
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Last edited by luchog; 15th May 2019 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:36 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Correcting people is only worthwhile when it's not someone who immediately then tells you that you are wrong about your own experience.
I get that you don't trust dann to learn but it might be interesting for the rest of us. As for looking for it myself, well, this is a discussion forum and since you seem to know what you're talking about on these matters I wanted to read it from you.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:52 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Originally Posted by dann View Post
I don’t doubt that BDSM exists. But I also don’t doubt that astrology exists. What I do doubt is that astrologers are reliable witnesses of anything other than how they feel about their experiences with astrology.
Please explain what it is about BDSM that violates well-established principles of science, provide citations to support your assertion. if you can't do that, your analogy is beyond specious, and well into disingenuous territory. You're still doing nothing but preaching.

BDSM isn't science. As such it violates "well-established principles of science" as little as ice-skating or ballroom dancing do. However, that doesn't mean that whatever BDSM practitioner says about BDSM based on experience is the truth. You got that completely wrong if you think so, and it makes you appear to be the one around here who takes on the guise of the infallible preacher.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:57 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I get that you don't trust dann to learn but it might be interesting for the rest of us. As for looking for it myself, well, this is a discussion forum and since you seem to know what you're talking about on these matters I wanted to read it from you.

As I noted, I don't have any online resources I can link here, as they would be in violation of the TOS (sexually explicit), and I'm greatly limited in what I can discuss.

If you're really interested, a good starting point is a pair of books, The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book, by Dossie Easton and and Janet Hardy. They're updated versions of books that have been the bibles of the BDSM community for many years. I also recommend the publications of the Society of Janus in San Francisco (not to be confused with the similarly-named Janus Society based in Philidelphia), which is one of the oldest BDSM communities in the US. They have a website.

Not about BDSM per se, but tangentially related and covering many of the same principles of negotiation and consent in a wider context is The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities, also by Easton and Hardy.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:58 AM   #212
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I very much doubt Dann would be open to being expected to "scientifically explain" to all of our satisfaction the things he enjoys, sexually or otherwise.
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:06 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
What, me worry?
If you can't say what form you want your answer in, what hope does anyone else have of answering the question to your satisfaction?
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:08 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I very much doubt Dann would be open to being expected to "scientifically explain" to all of our satisfaction the things he enjoys, sexually or otherwise.

It seems that every time anyone tries to answer, they're derided as not being sceptical enough, being anecdotal and generally, and aggressively being accused of not answering correctly.

That the interlocutor can't even describe the format of the answer that would be acceptable is telling, I think.
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:30 AM   #215
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I enjoy light bondage because I am a sick, twisted **** and so is my partner.




I think that's the answer sought.

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Old 15th May 2019, 07:32 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
If the underlying question isn't about why people actually like BDSM then none of those questions makes any sense to me.

But the weirder thing is that I asked you upfront if you were interested in that question, and you said yes. Yet you still claim that other posters saying that you are asking that question are presenting a strawman. I don't see how both of those things can be true.
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:35 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I enjoy light bondage because I am a sick, twisted **** and so is my partner.
Ah, it always helps in a relationship if you have something in common


Quote:



I think that's the answer sought.
I genuinely think that's what Dann's after, a blanket condemnation of all activities that he (or she, I have no idea) personally either doesn't like or finds flat out unpleasant.


Me, in many ways I'm a colossal pervert, but I'm up front about it.
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:36 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I enjoy light bondage because I am a sick, twisted **** and so is my partner.
Must be some pretty thick light!
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:44 AM   #219
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Yes, we spank light bulbs, tie them up and insult them, then turn them on. It's most satisfying.
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Old 15th May 2019, 08:24 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
If the underlying question isn't about why people actually like BDSM then none of those questions makes any sense to me.

There is no underlying question. Yes, I have asked a couple of very specific questions about what was said in specific posts.

Quote:
But the weirder thing is that I asked you upfront if you were interested in that question, and you said yes. Yet you still claim that other posters saying that you are asking that question are presenting a strawman. I don't see how both of those things can be true.

If you ask me upfront - and I don't see why it shouldn't be upfront - then I'm interested in that question, but apparently you weren't able to find me asking the question that everybody seemed to agree that I came to this thread and required that people answer.
It's been (yet another) weird thread in that way.
If people feel like answering it, that's fine, since you're asking. The strawman, however, isn't.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th May 2019, 08:28 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
There is no underlying question. Yes, I have asked a couple of very specific questions about what was said in specific posts.
In that case your post makes no sense to me, but okay.




Quote:
If you ask me upfront - and I don't see why it shouldn't be upfront - then I'm interested in that question, but apparently you weren't able to find me asking the question that everybody seemed to agree that I came to this thread and required that people answer.
It's been (yet another) weird thread in that way.
If people feel like answering it, that's fine, since you're asking. The strawman, however, isn't.
I didn't even bother going back through the thread because I figured it would be easier to just ask you if you were interested in that question, and you said yes. That seems pretty clear to me.

Now, I guess you're saying that you are interested in that question, and everyone else interpretted you as asking that question, but you didn't actually ask it, so people saying that you were asking it were presenting a strawman. Something like that?

I'm going to bed now, but this is making me think I should go back through the thread and try to understand what exactly you have been talking about because when I read it the first time, like everyone else, I thought you were trying to understand why people are into BDSM.
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Old 15th May 2019, 08:37 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
this is making me think I should go back through the thread and try to understand what exactly you have been talking about because when I read it the first time, like everyone else, I thought you were trying to understand why people are into BDSM.
If you work it out, could you let the rest of us know?
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Old 15th May 2019, 09:04 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
There is no underlying question. Yes, I have asked a couple of very specific questions about what was said in specific posts.
It's true. What should be questions are instead presented as facts:

Originally Posted by dann View Post
I'm aware that they are "consenting to be dominated and humiliated," but I'm also aware that that's a contradiction in terms. So is "a healthy dom/sub relationship." And so is "consenting" and "complete control".

Thus:
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I enjoy light bondage because I am a sick, twisted **** and so is my partner.

I think that's the answer sought.
I think the answer sought is required to begin with agreement that consensual submission is impossible and healthy dom/sub relationships don't exist. After that, any answer based on the assumed pathological nature of the activity is probably going to be in the right ballpark.
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Old 15th May 2019, 12:01 PM   #224
luchog
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
However, that doesn't mean that whatever BDSM practitioner says about BDSM based on experience is the truth.

Wait what? You can't trust someone who has had a subjective experience to truthfully report the nature of their own subjective experience? What the hell? That is about the dumbest, most ludicrous, most patently absurd hand-waving dismissal and justification for willful ignorance I have ever seen here. Congratulations, I guess.

At this point, your entire contribution to this thread can easily be summed up in one sentence:



And with that you have effectively demonstrated that you are not at all interested in learning, only in preaching and scoring cheap Internet gotchas. I'm done.
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Old 15th May 2019, 04:08 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
BDSM isn't science. As such it violates "well-established principles of science" as little as ice-skating or ballroom dancing do. However, that doesn't mean that whatever BDSM practitioner says about BDSM based on experience is the truth. You got that completely wrong if you think so, and it makes you appear to be the one around here who takes on the guise of the infallible preacher.
However, that doesn't mean that whatever an ice-skating practitioner says about ice-skating based on experience is the truth.

However, that doesn't mean that whatever a ballroom dancing practitioner says about ballroom dancing based on experience is the truth.

Do those sentences work for you dann? Or is it just BDSM practitioners that you feel can't speak reliably about what they do for recreation?
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:38 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
And with that you have effectively demonstrated that you are not at all interested in learning, only in preaching and scoring cheap Internet gotchas. I'm done.
I started this thread honestly trying to answer what I thought were serious questions, politely and in as much detail as I could, and I received nothing but derision in return. I'm done too.
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:46 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
....
But at least we haven't heard from the pseudo-Darwinists yet. I would love to hear how evolution makes people want to dress up like dogs.

Once you get past self awareness it doesn't matter... ( Not that I understand how evolution accounts for self awareness... )
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Old 17th May 2019, 12:24 AM   #228
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I agree, but pseudo-Darwinists always prefer whatever specific endeavor intelligent creatures undertake to be explained, not by the (more or less) intelligent decisions that their free will enables them to make, but directly. In the rape thread, a very popular explanation was that some people like to rape because ... evolution!
I don't think it's difficult to make evolution account for self-awareness: If you think that awareness (= intelligence) gives the human race an evolutionary advantage, it obviously includes self-awareness as a by-product. As soon as you have awareness, it is hard to see how self-awareness could be made a blindspot of that awareness. (And it would also have to make some kind of evolutionary sense: How would a lack of self-awareness be advantageous?)
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Old 17th May 2019, 12:56 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I started this thread honestly trying to answer what I thought were serious questions, politely and in as much detail as I could, and I received nothing but derision in return. I'm done too.

It is my impression as well that you tried honestly to answer questions that you thought were serious, that you did so politely and in as much detail as you could, so I'm very sorry to hear that you think that you got nothing but derision in return.
The questions I asked were all honest and I don't think that my answers to you were ever derisive.
I have probably hurt the feelings of both you and TragicMonkey by pointing out the idealizations of the BDSM community that I think you made, but come on! Did you expect me not to contradict you when I think you are wrong? Could I have contradicted you in a way that wouldn't offend you?
My major disappointment in this thread is that my references to Maria Marcus and Ayoka Black - the latter never stops emphasizing how much she is still into kink - were ignored and dismissed: I think they were simply called "random".
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Old 17th May 2019, 01:08 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I agree, but pseudo-Darwinists always prefer whatever specific endeavor intelligent creatures undertake to be explained, not by the (more or less) intelligent decisions that their free will enables them to make, but directly. In the rape thread, a very popular explanation was that some people like to rape because ... evolution!
I don't think it's difficult to make evolution account for self-awareness: If you think that awareness (= intelligence) gives the human race an evolutionary advantage, it obviously includes self-awareness as a by-product. As soon as you have awareness, it is hard to see how self-awareness could be made a blindspot of that awareness. (And it would also have to make some kind of evolutionary sense: How would a lack of self-awareness be advantageous?)
I'm having a hard time following. How are you defining awareness?

Saying awareness = intelligence doesn't help as intelligence is itself not well defined.
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Old 17th May 2019, 01:23 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I'm having a hard time following.
You're not the only one.
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Old 17th May 2019, 01:30 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
"just"??!
I'm with Thermal on this one, but I know that some people get extremely upset if you even ask the question, why the hell would anybody want to do a thing like that? What's in it for them?
In that thread people kept telling me that it was a thing, as if I didn't obviously know that when I started the thread, instead of trying to explain why it was a thing.
At least in this thread, it would be much more difficult for the pseudo-Darwinists to use the argument that it's obviously in people's nature; that evolution is what makes them want to do it.
This was your first post in this thread. Based on your response to arthwolipot's reply to it, it seems clear that by "it" you were referring to BDSM. That's certainly how I read it. It doesn't seem like you were talking about rape, except in so much as you asked the same question about rape.

Another interpretation could be that you were specifically saying you don't understand why doms would want to kill their subs (for context see the post dann was responding to), but again based on your response to Arthwolipot's response to this post that doesn't seem to be the case.

So, again, I don't think we've been misinterpreting you.
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Old 17th May 2019, 01:32 AM   #233
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For context, here's arthwollipot's response to dann, and dann's response to that:

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Each of the parties in the relationship gets something different out of it. For the dom, the pleasure is in having complete control over every aspect of the other person's life. It's a literal power trip, and really not that hard to understand.

For the sub, however, it's a little more complicated. For the sub, it's about giving up control to someone else. It's an interesting phenomenon that people who wield a lot of power in their regular life, like CEOs and politicians, are frequently submissive in the bedroom. That stereotype? Yeah, it's more or less true. For a sub, the pleasure of giving control over to someone else can be so intense as to be sexual.

It's important to note that these folks are consenting to be dominated and humiliated - it's what they want. They're not being forced into anything. In a healthy dom/sub relationship, the sub can end it at any time.

The Hafertepens also had internet celebrity, so there was an element of exhibitionism there as well. They were doing it for an audience, and therefore probably also for money.
Originally Posted by dann View Post
I'm aware that they are "consenting to be dominated and humiliated," but I'm also aware that that's a contradiction in terms. So is "a healthy dom/sub relationship." And so is "consenting" and "complete control".

Preacher meets God:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 17th May 2019, 01:36 AM   #234
3point14
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
This was your first post in this thread. Based on your response to arthwolipot's reply to it, it seems clear that by "it" you were referring to BDSM.

That whole passage gave me an Admiral Ackbar moment.
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Old 17th May 2019, 03:55 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It is my impression as well that you tried honestly to answer questions that you thought were serious, that you did so politely and in as much detail as you could, so I'm very sorry to hear that you think that you got nothing but derision in return.
The questions I asked were all honest and I don't think that my answers to you were ever derisive.
I have probably hurt the feelings of both you and TragicMonkey by pointing out the idealizations of the BDSM community that I think you made, but come on! Did you expect me not to contradict you when I think you are wrong? Could I have contradicted you in a way that wouldn't offend you?
My major disappointment in this thread is that my references to Maria Marcus and Ayoka Black - the latter never stops emphasizing how much she is still into kink - were ignored and dismissed: I think they were simply called "random".
You didn't "hurt my feelings". By saying that you again commit the same error people have been objecting to all along: you constantly, insistently declare what other people are thinking and feeling despite them telling you you're incorrect. You do not know what's going on inside the heads of others better than they do, and until you can grasp that you will get absolutely nowhere with this.
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Old 17th May 2019, 04:05 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You do not know what's going on inside the heads of others better than they do, and until you can grasp that you will get absolutely nowhere with this.

(S)He doesn't seem to want to actually get anywhere though. At every turn, every time there is a miscommunication or someone says something that Dann doesn't like, it's the fault of anyone but Dann. When several people who know stuff all answer a question in a similar fashion that is not to Dann's liking, Dann believes it's the answers that are the problem. I believe it's the question that's poor.

I genuinely believe that the desired end point of this is so Dann can proudly proclaim that (s)he's normal, we're all screaming, dangerous perverts, and only then can we renounce our perverted ways and return to the vanilla fold. Which, let's face it, isn't happening.

I read an article a little while ago that posited that kinky activity is correlated to higher intelligence. When I'm not at work I shall try to find it.
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Old 18th May 2019, 08:19 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I read an article a little while ago that posited that kinky activity is correlated to higher intelligence. When I'm not at work I shall try to find it.

I recall reading that as well.

Unfortunately, higher intelligence is also correlated to depression and other disorders, so that's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

However, it does appear that kinkiness may be correlated with better mental health. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bdsm-...tudy_n_3390676

Excerpt:
Quote:
Despite past assumptions that BDSM proclivities might be correlated with previous abuse, rape or mental disorders (research has shown that they’re not), this survey found that kinky people actually scored better on many indicators of mental health than those who didn’t practice BDSM, reported LiveScience. According to Reuters, BDSM-friendly participants were found to be less neurotic, more open, more aware of and sensitive to rejection, more secure in their relationships and have better overall well-being.

Andreas Wismeijer, a psychologist at Nyenrode Business University in the Netherlands and the lead author on the study, told LiveScience that people involved in the BDSM community may have scored better on these surveys because they tend to be more aware of and communicative about their sexual desires, or because they have done some “hard psychological work” to accept and live with sexual needs that are beyond the scope of what is often considered socially acceptable to discuss in the mainstream.

Citations in linked article.
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