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Old 14th May 2019, 01:43 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not to mention that monkey chants have not happened at British football matches for years if not decades for the simple reason that I doubt there's a team without a significant number of non white players.
Still happening - though not as much as they used to. A story crops up in the news every now and then, usually because some top flight player gets some abuse. You rarely hear about it from the lower leagues, though I don't doubt it happens, abuse is - sadly - very much part of the game.
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Old 14th May 2019, 01:50 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Still happening - though not as much as they used to. A story crops up in the news every now and then, usually because some top flight player gets some abuse. You rarely hear about it from the lower leagues, though I don't doubt it happens, abuse is - sadly - very much part of the game.
I'm sure you're right, there is still racist abuse; I was being brief as I was on the phone. However, I think any abuse is likely to be from a few individuals, not a whole section of the crowd. And the abuse is not likely to be simply because a particular individual is black, as happened in the days when a team fielded one black player against and all-white team, because that would simply not make sense.

ETA: Most of the incidents I've seen reported in recent years have been when England have played abroad, and have come from crowds apparently unaccustomed to seeing any black players.
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Old 14th May 2019, 02:45 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Still happening - though not as much as they used to. A story crops up in the news every now and then, usually because some top flight player gets some abuse. You rarely hear about it from the lower leagues, though I don't doubt it happens, abuse is - sadly - very much part of the game.
Happens in junior leagues, sadly. Some parents are just plain *********.
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Old 14th May 2019, 02:51 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
You lost me here? Whether he knew what/who was Meghan's baby? It's a picture of a chimp!

ETA: Ninja'd by elaba... elaga.... some other poster.
Whether he knew the reported new royal baby was Meghan's.
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Old 14th May 2019, 02:51 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not to mention that monkey chants have not happened at British football matches for years if not decades for the simple reason that I doubt there's a team without a significant number of non white players.
This is simply not true.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...-investigation

Funnily enough, the idea that it is only those horrible Eastern Europeans who are racist at the football is just another example of English racism and xenophobia.
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Old 14th May 2019, 02:53 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
How could he not know all of that? Has he denied know these things?
As has been noted repeatedly, people on this very forum have said they weren't aware of Meghan being mixed race until this furore, and I have seen similar comments on other forums and social media. I think it's quite plausible that Baker did not know, so even if he knew the new baby was hers, why would he had thought a chimp picture would be inappropriate?
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Old 14th May 2019, 02:55 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
In my view the withdrawal of the tweet showed he understood how it could be offensive.
Yes, but probably only when it was pointed out to him. While I'm sure we've all posted something on social media, and then realised it might be inappropriate, seconds or minutes later.
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Old 14th May 2019, 03:23 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Yes, but probably only when it was pointed out to him. While I'm sure we've all posted something on social media, and then realised it might be inappropriate, seconds or minutes later.
Youíve posted about black(ish) babies being apes? Pity.
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Old 14th May 2019, 05:05 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Happens in junior leagues, sadly. Some parents are just plain *********.
What? In England? Thatís pretty shocking. As zooterkin says, it seems to be common in various parts of Eastern Europe such as Poland and Ukraine. I think recently in some of the former Yugoslavia as well.
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Old 14th May 2019, 05:18 AM   #170
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I have come to the conclusion that the button that says "Tweet" should say "I have read and re-read what I have written and am completely satisfied that it expresses just exactly what I want to say and cannot be interpreted in any other way"
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Old 14th May 2019, 05:30 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Youíve posted about black(ish) babies being apes? Pity.
No, but I have made comments in response in a hurry to one person on the misassumption that they were someone else, in a way that would be amusing to the latter, but not the former, so had to quickly delete them. I know too many people called "Paul," and I sometimes get them mixed up.
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Old 14th May 2019, 06:20 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
If he was innocent, he should be fired for stupidity.

Princess Charlotte doesn't have a black grandmother.

As for the "hate speech" investigation, yeah, that may be an over the line reaction.
"Innocent"? Of what, thought crime 'hate speech'? Jaysus, listen to yourself.
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Old 14th May 2019, 06:22 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Make England Britain Great Again
FTFY - you won't win any 'pith' awards at this rate.
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Old 14th May 2019, 06:58 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
What? In England? Thatís pretty shocking. As zooterkin says, it seems to be common in various parts of Eastern Europe such as Poland and Ukraine. I think recently in some of the former Yugoslavia as well.
There's a bit in this Guaradian article, but it's not the article I was thinking of:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...-investigation

Ah, here it is...the Beeb:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-48093032
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Old 14th May 2019, 07:13 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
As has been noted repeatedly, people on this very forum have said they weren't aware of Meghan being mixed race until this furore, and I have seen similar comments on other forums and social media. I think it's quite plausible that Baker did not know, so even if he knew the new baby was hers, why would he had thought a chimp picture would be inappropriate?
Interesting because I picked that up just scanning online news headlines in Australia. I avoid reading royals articles.
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Old 14th May 2019, 07:36 AM   #176
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Some people are properly better at avoiding them than even you.
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Old 14th May 2019, 11:16 AM   #177
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I suppose it's possible that a BBC commentator did not know anything about the parents of the royal baby about whom he tweeted, being merely clueless and demonstrably unfit for the task, but I find it really really hard to imagine, as Information Analyst seems to, that he did not even know whose baby was the subject of the tweet! I mean he must have had some inkling when tweeting about a recently born royal baby that such things are not daily occurrences, and that such a critter was likely to have a mother, and that being royal and all, it would not be hard to find out, and probably would be a good idea to know a little something about a little something before blurting out an insulting tweet.

As so often seems the case in these situations, the only defense of offensive actions seems to be to protest that the perpetrator was either uncommonly stupid, unforgivably lazy, under the influence, or a combination of those.
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Old 14th May 2019, 11:53 AM   #178
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It seems that instead of seeing Twitter as a supplement to responsible journalism, the media mostly sees it as an easier alternative to responsible journalism.
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:15 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No, but I have made comments in response in a hurry to one person on the misassumption that they were someone else, in a way that would be amusing to the latter, but not the former, so had to quickly delete them. I know too many people called "Paul," and I sometimes get them mixed up.
Not sure why you keep defending him. By your own admission, Baker is "about as funny as having your leg amputated without anaesthetic". Cut him loose, IA! The outrage machine is a beast that needs to be fed.
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:20 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
As so often seems the case in these situations, the only defense of offensive actions seems to be to protest that the perpetrator was either uncommonly stupid, unforgivably lazy, under the influence, or a combination of those.
The perpetrator explained their actions and they were quite reasonable, but as is so often the case, people just love for their outrage to be fueled.

My entire life, everywhere I have lived, children have been called monkeys. I was, my classmates were, my children were, my grandchildren are. There is no offence in that.

Not that this couldn't have been offensive. In the right context it would be but not in this context.
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:31 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It seems that instead of seeing Twitter as a supplement to responsible journalism, the media mostly sees it as an easier alternative to responsible journalism.
This.

Regurgitating the voluntary writings of a self-selecting group of loudmouths and calling it 'the mood of the nation' is almost the opposite of journalism.
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:53 PM   #182
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Sadly, we just don't live in an ideal world in which everyone regardless of race, nationality, ethnicity, religion, creed, et cetera can equally be compared to chimps - for there is always going to be some vocal minority who will start screeching about it like a bunch of howler monkeys. Obviously, then, in such a diverse world as ours some can only properly be compared to the lesser apes or, as you've just seen, even lesser simians than that (though that could be arguable, of course, considering the prehensile tail).

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Old 14th May 2019, 01:49 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I suppose it's possible that a BBC commentator did not know anything about the parents of the royal baby about whom he tweeted, being merely clueless and demonstrably unfit for the task, but I find it really really hard to imagine, as Information Analyst seems to, that he did not even know whose baby was the subject of the tweet!
I think it's less of a possibility than him not knowing Meghan is mixed race, but neither is impossible.

Quote:
I mean he must have had some inkling when tweeting about a recently born royal baby that such things are not daily occurrences, and that such a critter was likely to have a mother, and that being royal and all, it would not be hard to find out, and probably would be a good idea to know a little something about a little something before blurting out an insulting tweet.
I think you underestimate the degree to which people can filter out stuff they're not interested in. There's an awful lot of gossipy crap in the media that I manage not to process.
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Old 14th May 2019, 01:50 PM   #184
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I still can't believe it's this that Danny Baker is getting vilified for, when what he really should be in trouble about is killing Bob Marley!
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Old 14th May 2019, 04:31 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I think it's less of a possibility than him not knowing Meghan is mixed race, but neither is impossible.



I think you underestimate the degree to which people can filter out stuff they're not interested in. There's an awful lot of gossipy crap in the media that I manage not to process.
Perhaps, but I really have to doubt whether a BBC commentator who takes the small but specific effort to utter a tweet about an event is so utterly and completely unaware of what that event is that he knows neither the identity of the participants nor the hitherto unique and internationally noted fact that the mother is of mixed race. If he's really that disconnected from the event then I can't see how that does not make intelligence and posting about it mutually exclusive. If he's that stupid, I'd consider it a public service to censure him if not to fire him anyway, on the grounds that he cannot be trusted to act intelligently about anything.
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Old 14th May 2019, 04:40 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Some people are properly better at avoiding them than even you.
Oh, I actively avoid reading any royals fluff articles but the headlines have been enough.

This one from May two contains a not uncommon theme:

Meghan Markle's baby a symbol of hope for diverse Britain and a target for racist trolls
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...-hope/10983122
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Old 14th May 2019, 04:54 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Oh, I actively avoid reading any royals fluff articles but the headlines have been enough.

This one from May two contains a not uncommon theme:

Meghan Markle's baby a symbol of hope for diverse Britain and a target for racist trolls
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...-hope/10983122
Everything I know about Meghan Markle I learned from an episode of the podcast How Did This Get Made? where they discussed a TV movie about her marrying into the royal family. I don't remember the name of the movie, I don't remember which royal she married, etc. Of course, I'm neither someone looking to tweet jokes about her nor an employee of the BBC, so my ignorance is somewhat understandable. If I was going to make jokes about her or her child, I'd probably take 5 or 10 minutes to find out just a bit more information.
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Old 14th May 2019, 05:22 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Oh, I actively avoid reading any royals fluff articles but the headlines have been enough.

This one from May two contains a not uncommon theme:

Meghan Markle's baby a symbol of hope for diverse Britain and a target for racist trolls
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...-hope/10983122
If royal headlines are getting past your active avoidance of royal fluff then you could do better at avoiding royal fluff.
Though I did know she was american, so my active avoidance of royal fluff could be better too.
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Old 14th May 2019, 06:02 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Perhaps, but I really have to doubt whether a BBC commentator who takes the small but specific effort to utter a tweet about an event is so utterly and completely unaware of what that event is that he knows neither the identity of the participants nor the hitherto unique and internationally noted fact that the mother is of mixed race. If he's really that disconnected from the event then I can't see how that does not make intelligence and posting about it mutually exclusive. If he's that stupid, I'd consider it a public service to censure him if not to fire him anyway, on the grounds that he cannot be trusted to act intelligently about anything.
Just FYI, he's not a commentator, he's a DJ and radio presenter.
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Old 14th May 2019, 06:52 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Just FYI, he's not a commentator, he's a DJ and radio presenter.
My mistake, but he was still a BBC employee in a public role.
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Old 15th May 2019, 12:45 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I think it's less of a possibility than him not knowing Meghan is mixed race, but neither is impossible.
I just don't think he thought it through.
"Ah, a royal/posh baby. I'll do what I've done before for those, and post this picture that makes me chuckle."

I very much doubt he put any more thought into it than that.
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Old 15th May 2019, 01:36 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Perhaps, but I really have to doubt whether a BBC commentator who takes the small but specific effort to utter a tweet about an event is so utterly and completely unaware of what that event is that he knows neither the identity of the participants nor the hitherto unique and internationally noted fact that the mother is of mixed race.
As has been repeatedly pointed out, just because the media outside the UK think that's a defining feature, doesn't make it so within the UK. IIRC, when I first heard about it - several months down the line - it was specifically noticing by chance a piece remarking on the fact that US media was obsessed with that angle, but the UK media wasn't.
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Old 15th May 2019, 01:40 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
If I was going to make jokes about her or her child, I'd probably take 5 or 10 minutes to find out just a bit more information.
I make guillotine shaped jokes about her child and knew nothing about her before this happened other than:

She's married one of the Saxe Coburgs
She's the first royal who's tits you can see on DVD - apparently.

I learned the above by accident. I have no desire to know any more. I'll continue to make jokes about guillotines and the Saxe Coburgs. Her ethnicity is of supreme indifference to me. Her pointlessness is slightly annoying.
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Old 15th May 2019, 01:42 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I just don't think he thought it through.
"Ah, a royal/posh baby. I'll do what I've done before for those, and post this picture that makes me chuckle."

I very much doubt he put any more thought into it than that.
Yeah, I think it was some combination of knowing at all, not having processed previously heard information as significant, or just being in a hurry to crack a "joke," rather than thinking it through. Consciously thinking, "Hur-hur! Meghan is mixed race, so I'll tweet a chimp picture now she's had a baby!" would be equivalent to him e-mailing the BBC's Director General to say, "I think you're a cock. Please sack me."
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Old 15th May 2019, 01:51 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I just don't think he thought it through.
"Ah, a royal/posh baby. I'll do what I've done before for those, and post this picture that makes me chuckle."

I very much doubt he put any more thought into it than that.
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Yeah, I think it was some combination of knowing at all, not having processed previously heard information as significant, or just being in a hurry to crack a "joke," rather than thinking it through. Consciously thinking, "Hur-hur! Meghan is mixed race, so I'll tweet a chimp picture now she's had a baby!" would be equivalent to him e-mailing the BBC's Director General to say, "I think you're a cock. Please sack me."
Well, three of us, at least, seem to concur on the motive (or lack of).

As to whether he deserved a sacking when they keep that reprehensible cur hosting The Apprentice? Obviously, he doesn't bring in revenue and the Beeb management are a bunch of hypocrites, 'cuz the WC post was far worse.

That's between you guys (the Brit public) and your government, though.
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Old 15th May 2019, 02:11 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I have to agree with this.

Looking at UK from over here in the southernmost colony, the biggest issue seemed to be that she is.... err.... American!!!!!!!!! Really? OMG? Remember what happened the LAST time a Royal married an American? It was a disaster; the sky will fall, the sun will finally set on the Empire.
And an actor to boot.The way some of the media reacted at the time, I think there would have been less fuss if Harry had announced his engagement to a prostitute (as long as she was English).

Wallis Simpson was treated pretty shabbily. I sincerely hope Megan Markle fairs better and I wish the tabloid press would stop judging the Royals based on who they fall in love with.
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Old 15th May 2019, 02:48 AM   #197
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I just don't think he thought it through.
"Ah, a royal/posh baby. I'll do what I've done before for those, and post this picture that makes me chuckle."

I very much doubt he put any more thought into it than that.
Besides he were pissed so he thought it funnier ... apparently.
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Old 15th May 2019, 02:48 AM   #198
Darat
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
...snip...

She's married one of the Saxe Coburgs
She's the first royal who's tits you can see on DVD - apparently.

..snip...
"It's A Royal Knockout" is no longer available?
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Old 15th May 2019, 02:50 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
"It's A Royal Knockout" is no longer available?
VHS, not DVD
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:14 AM   #200
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Another vote that 'could be interpreted as racist' does not at all mean 'reflects racism'.

Like the nooses in the news, sometimes the racist connotations are not seen by the user. I didn't know that she was part black. Actually, I think I heard it early on but just don't care enough to think of it when she is mentioned. This guy likes the imagery of royalty being dressed chimps, I take it, and uses it frequently? So why would time this be any different? Seems the offense is in the observers' minds, not the 'offender's. Sin being in intent and all.
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