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Old 30th January 2013, 11:04 AM   #1
Cainkane1
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Bullet proof boar

http://www.inquisitr.com/501793/bull...n-a-mile-away/

I don't believe this story out of France. Hunters are claiming a bullet richosheded off of a boar and killed a man a mile away. Somebodys lying big time.
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Old 30th January 2013, 11:11 AM   #2
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Re: Bullet proof boar

Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
http://www.inquisitr.com/501793/bull...n-a-mile-away/

I don't believe this story out of France. Hunters are claiming a bullet richosheded off of a boar and killed a man a mile away. Somebodys lying big time.
Maybe maybe not. Bullets can go a long way and do weird things. A light graze on the boar could result in a hazard down range. Or a miss.

Credibly an accident that can't be avoided when hunting with high powered rifles.
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Old 30th January 2013, 11:12 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
http://www.inquisitr.com/501793/bull...n-a-mile-away/

I don't believe this story out of France. Hunters are claiming a bullet richosheded off of a boar and killed a man a mile away. Somebodys lying big time.
Is there some reason that this is impossible? If they meant it ricocheted backward that far, I'd agree. But if the weapon was powerful enough and it just grazed upward slightly, why not?

ETA: I'm not familiar with weapon ranges. If a "normal" hunting rifle were fired at a 10 degree angle, could it go a mile?

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Old 30th January 2013, 11:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Maybe maybe not. Bullets can go a long way and do weird things. A light graze on the boar could result in a hazard down range. Or a miss.

Credibly an accident that can't be avoided when hunting with high powered rifles.
I'm sure it's not news to those who are more knowledgeable about weapons than I am but I was interested to learn that one of the many reasons to hunt from an elevated hide was that the earth below provides a useful backstop for an errant shot. I mean it's obvious in retrospect.
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Old 30th January 2013, 11:26 AM   #5
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It's not impossible with the right freak circumstances. I think it's more likely that they missed and were playing fast and loose with knowing what was behind their target - this is a macabre version of a fish story I'd bet.

I've heard tales before of the thickness of boar skulls, but I've also heard that about alligators...and yet I've seen them killed with single shots by .22 LR on Swamp People (.22LR won't penetrate a 55 gallon drum).

It would have to be a rifle of impressive ballistics to ricochet off skull and still have enough velocity to kill a man a mile away. I'm assuming it passed through a side window, since a windshield would make it even more unbelievable (windshields absorb quite a bit of energy and change the trajectory of a bullet).
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Old 30th January 2013, 11:45 AM   #6
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Unlikely, but not entirely unbelievable. They don't say what caliber and they don't say the bullet crashed through a *closed* window. A decent rifle round glancing off a hard skull cold easily travel a mile. Its hard to imagine it traveling at an angle that would allow it to enter a car window and hit someone in the head with deadly force, but I guess its possible.

Remember the woman who was shot in the arm while sitting in her trailer on the infield at a nascar race last year? The shooter was, I think, 2 miles away at a shooting range and missed his target.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Maybe maybe not. Bullets can go a long way and do weird things. A light graze on the boar could result in a hazard down range. Or a miss.

Credibly an accident that can't be avoided when hunting with high powered rifles.
Knowing french hunter far more probably there was no baor, and the idiot fired at something moving. That is much much much more probably than a freak accident with a bullet travelling that far after ricoheting a boar hide.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Unlikely, but not entirely unbelievable. They don't say what caliber and they don't say the bullet crashed through a *closed* window. A decent rifle round glancing off a hard skull cold easily travel a mile. Its hard to imagine it traveling at an angle that would allow it to enter a car window and hit someone in the head with deadly force, but I guess its possible.

Remember the woman who was shot in the arm while sitting in her trailer on the infield at a nascar race last year? The shooter was, I think, 2 miles away at a shooting range and missed his target.
That was a .50BMG round, that's a little more than a regular rifle bullet. It can pierce some APC armor.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:07 PM   #9
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We had a case here not so long ago of a home kill gone wrong, where the bullet bounced off the bull's skull and took out the assistant nearby, but he was not a mile away.

(He survived)
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:09 PM   #10
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Here in Georgia hunters shoot boar all the time. I've never heard of this happening.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:10 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Here in Georgia hunters shoot boar all the time. I've never heard of this happening.
In France they shoot boar all the time too, and had never heard of this happening ___ until now.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:10 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
That was a .50BMG round, that's a little more than a regular rifle bullet. It can pierce some APC armor.
Yep, it was. And, even then, the bullet came down through the trailer at a pretty steep angle.

But, a mile is still no stretch. A .22LR can easily travel a mile. Something with more powder behind it, like a .223 might even be deadly at a mile.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Yep, it was. And, even then, the bullet came down through the trailer at a pretty steep angle.

But, a mile is still no stretch. A .22LR can easily travel a mile. Something with more powder behind it, like a .223 might even be deadly at a mile.
The mile isn't the stretch, it's the lethal velocity - especially after a ricochet.

IIRC the woman hit with the .50 had her arm broken by it.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:20 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The mile isn't the stretch, it's the lethal velocity - especially after a ricochet.

IIRC the woman hit with the .50 had her arm broken by it.
Agreed. It would have to be a very slight glancing blow to the boar's head, not a 90 degree ricochet as described in the article.

FWIW - found this helpful table on bullet travel distances (and I admit the longer distances should be taken with a grain of salt)

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/learning.../bullets.phtml
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:30 PM   #15
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YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Rounds do not magically stay near their targets.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:42 PM   #16
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A 90 degree reflection would kill too much of its velocity. I'm thinking they're telling a half truth. A 10 or 20 degree reflection could easily stay lethal at that range, but that would mean they were still firing approximately towards road.
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:43 PM   #17
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"Accidental" death by boar? Yeah, right. Cersei Lannister strikes again!
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Old 30th January 2013, 12:55 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Looks good compared to the results I get using ballistic tables. It depends upon the ballistic coefficient of the bullet, velocity and the angle of departure. Most bullets need an angle of about 40 degrees to obtain maximum range. If a bullet is traveling this far, then the shooter is either aiming at a target high above or had a negligent discharge.

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Old 30th January 2013, 01:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Looks good compared to the results I get using ballistic tables. It depends upon the ballistic coefficient of the bullet, velocity and the angle of departure. Most bullets need an angle of about 40 degrees to obtain maximum range. If a bullet is traveling this far, then the shooter is either aiming at a target high above or had a negligent discharge.

Ranb
That highlighted bit was where I was hedging my bets on the table in my link. That is, you'd have to be aiming at an airplane for your 7mm bullet to accidentally fly 5 miles.

In the boar ricochet scenario I'm envisioning a shooter downhill from the boar. The bullet ricochets off the boar's head, continues over the top of the hill and down the other side where the roadway is. Even then, the driver would have to be mighty short to be hit in the head by a bullet coming in through the window at what I imagine would have to be a pretty steeply declining trajectory.
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Old 30th January 2013, 01:37 PM   #20
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Re: Bullet proof boar

Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
That highlighted bit was where I was hedging my bets on the table in my link. That is, you'd have to be aiming at an airplane for your 7mm bullet to accidentally fly 5 miles.

In the boar ricochet scenario I'm envisioning a shooter downhill from the boar. The bullet ricochets off the boar's head, continues over the top of the hill and down the other side where the roadway is. Even then, the driver would have to be mighty short to be hit in the head by a bullet coming in through the window at what I imagine would have to be a pretty steeply declining trajectory.
What about a more level trajectory on the top of a hill?
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Old 30th January 2013, 01:40 PM   #21
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What if there were a second boar, on the grassy knoll?!
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Old 30th January 2013, 01:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Irony View Post
A 90 degree reflection would kill too much of its velocity. I'm thinking they're telling a half truth. A 10 or 20 degree reflection could easily stay lethal at that range, but that would mean they were still firing approximately towards road.
Oh, I see. I had misread that sentence in the article as the bullet glancing off at "(just) the right angle" not "a right angle".

If the translation didn't screw up anything and that was the actual report, then I completely agree with the bogosity of the claim. Only a glancing blow would have been possible.

If nothing else, I'd expect such a severe deflection would cause deformation of the bullet. That would cut down on the range even without the energy loss.

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Old 30th January 2013, 01:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BowlOfRed View Post
Oh, I see. I had misread that sentence in the article as the bullet glancing off at "(just) the right angle" not "a right angle".

If the translation didn't screw up anything and that was the actual report, then I completely agree with the bogosity of the claim. Only a glancing blow would have been possible.

If nothing else, I'd expect such a severe deflection would cause deformation of the bullet. That would cut down on the range even without the energy loss.
I think I found my new favorite word.
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Old 30th January 2013, 01:56 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What if there were a second boar, on the grassy knoll?!
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Old 30th January 2013, 02:49 PM   #25
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A ricochet off of a hard target, like steel, would deform the bullet too much for it to retain good ballistic coefficiency. It wouldn't go as far.

But if you can get a bullet to 'skip' off of a softer surface, like skipping a stone on a pond, the bullet might retain most of it's ballistic coefficiency, and travel a long ways, retaining enough energy to do damage.

Any mention of evidence of a hawg with a headache?
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Old 30th January 2013, 02:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
A ricochet off of a hard target, like steel, would deform the bullet too much for it to retain good ballistic coefficiency. It wouldn't go as far.

But if you can get a bullet to 'skip' off of a softer surface, like skipping a stone on a pond, the bullet might retain most of it's ballistic coefficiency, and travel a long ways, retaining enough energy to do damage.

Any mention of evidence of a hawg with a headache?
In Rogue Warrior, the autobiography of Dick Marcinko (founder of SEAL Team 6), he describes one of his men being hit non-fatally between the eyes by an AK-47 ricochet off the river they were traveling down.
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Old 30th January 2013, 03:03 PM   #27
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Boars have very thick skulls. More than one person has told me they have shot them in the head with a small caliber gun and thinking they have killed them they try to gut and skin them only to have them become instantly awake and rather upset at the attempt to gut them or skin them.
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Old 30th January 2013, 03:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dogdoctor View Post
Boars have very thick skulls. More than one person has told me they have shot them in the head with a small caliber gun and thinking they have killed them they try to gut and skin them only to have them become instantly awake and rather upset at the attempt to gut them or skin them.
Pictures;

http://www.texasboars.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19765
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Old 30th January 2013, 03:11 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Knowing french hunter far more probably there was no baor, and the idiot fired at something moving. That is much much much more probably than a freak accident with a bullet travelling that far after ricoheting a boar hide.
What makes me think they're lying is the claim that the bullet ricocheted at a 90o angle.

I think he or she took a negligent shot (you have to be aware of what is behind the target) and is trying to cover it up.
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Old 30th January 2013, 03:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
My work neighbor (wife of a cop) has taken a Mini-14 out a few times to shoot some of the feral pigs and wild boar that have taken up residence around her property.

Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
What makes me think they're lying is the claim that the bullet ricocheted at a 90o angle.

I think he or she took a negligent shot (you have to be aware of what is behind the target) and is trying to cover it up.
That was my thought as well.
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Old 31st January 2013, 11:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
In Rogue Warrior, the autobiography of Dick Marcinko (founder of SEAL Team 6), he describes one of his men being hit non-fatally between the eyes by an AK-47 ricochet off the river they were traveling down.
Yup - water is deadly that way. My brother and I used to skip 22 bullets off the mill pond in our backyard. We spent hours trying to get good at aiming the skipped rounds to hit targets we set up on the other side, but were never really successful other than a couple of random lucky shots. But, we could easily manage to skip 100% of our shots after the first few minutes of practice.

Yes, we were very poorly supervised and there were no neighbors for miles. It was still pretty stupid of us.
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Old 31st January 2013, 11:37 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Yup - water is deadly that way. My brother and I used to skip 22 bullets off the mill pond in our backyard. We spent hours trying to get good at aiming the skipped rounds to hit targets we set up on the other side, but were never really successful other than a couple of random lucky shots. But, we could easily manage to skip 100% of our shots after the first few minutes of practice.

Yes, we were very poorly supervised and there were no neighbors for miles. It was still pretty stupid of us.
It's actually the focal point of an episode of the Golgo 13 anime series about a legendary sniper hit man. I recommend the show, it's interesting how he uses basic problem solving.
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Old 1st February 2013, 08:13 AM   #33
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Old 1st February 2013, 08:19 AM   #34
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If ever one should be skeptical of a claim it is this one.

A .308 after traveling about ~1 mile will be traveling about 800 fps, down from 2700 fps without hitting anything. Just wind resistance and gravity.

Ok so you take this fact, that a common high powered round has lost over 2/3'rds of its velocity having traveled that far without:

Quote:
“It’s unheard-of … The bullet rebounded [off the boar] at almost a right angle. In terms of probability, it’s very unlikely.”
Taking a 90 degree bounce . . . .

I am not believing this at all what so ever.

Skipping bullets off of water is VERY different than what is being claimed.

A water skip tends to be under 30 degrees of angle to work, and water does not deform the bullet the way a unyielding surface will.

Something hard could offer a skip at a higher angle, but would deform the bullet, which would hinder the distance the bullet could travel.
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Freedom of Speech is a right recognized in the First Amendment. Freedom from consequence is nowhere to be found. -Bstrong

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