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Old 9th January 2013, 01:29 PM   #401
seycyrus
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
What if he has no fear because he has taken appropriate precautions that include arming himself? Perhaps you should contact him prior to making an accustion.
Ranb
It's pretty clear that the words "fear" and afraid are being used due to the emotional response they usually generate.

I say the ant-gunners are "afraid" of personal responsibility, and potential confrontation. MUCH less scary to close one's eyes and hope the bad guys go away.

Last edited by seycyrus; 9th January 2013 at 01:33 PM. Reason: replace safer with "less scary"
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Old 9th January 2013, 01:50 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
It's pretty clear that the words "fear" and afraid are being used due to the emotional response they usually generate.

I say the ant-gunners are "afraid" of personal responsibility, and potential confrontation. MUCH less scary to close one's eyes and hope the bad guys go away.
These?

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Old 9th January 2013, 02:05 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
What if he has no fear because he has taken appropriate precautions that include arming himself? Perhaps you should contact him prior to making an accustion.

Ranb
I think this just boils down to gun owners not liking the fear word. Context is important and here we are talking about crime and guns, so here we are talking about fear of crime.

So he has armed himself to reduce his fear of crime.
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Old 9th January 2013, 02:07 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by shawmutt View Post
Does insurance of any kind send out signals of fear to you? Its purpose is to defray the cost of unlikely events. People that are aware that accidents/theft/sickness/etc. happen prefer to have insurance.

I don't stock my car for fear of getting into a mess, I do it because I am aware that being prepared is the intelligent thing to do.

Perhaps it is semantics, and in that case perhaps words can be chosen that are least likely to offend and close off discussion.
OK, is fear of crime an acceptable non insulting term?
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Old 9th January 2013, 04:19 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
They want to minimize reload time and frequency. Now tell me why that is.
Actually, that's secondary.

It's to minimize the amount of magazines a soldier has to carry, thereby freeing up space for other necessities.
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Old 9th January 2013, 04:23 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Fear of crime is a recognised term, the subject of much academic study. It does not mean out and out fear where you are literally scared all the time. There are people with no fear of crime.

But to say you have no fear and yet you still feel the need to arm yourself against criminals suggests you are not really telling the truth. Actions speaking louder than words.

Or maybe there are people who need a gun as a prop, a security blanket to make them feel safe.
You keep using the word "need" when referring to someone carrying a firearm. I've explained this many times.

Most don't feel a need, but a want. They're two different words.
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Old 9th January 2013, 04:56 PM   #407
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Nessie, by your logic, is insurance a "need" or a security blanket? Because gun owners feel the same way about owning a gun. They just see it as insurance.
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Old 9th January 2013, 05:58 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
They want to minimize reload time and frequency. Now tell me why that is.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...for-civilians/

"The primary reason the military adopted the M-16 in 5.56 is because of the LOW recoil, and amount of ammo that a warrior can carry into battle. The .223 is the smallest the military would adopt at the time."
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Old 9th January 2013, 10:36 PM   #409
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This is about half a mile from my house.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archive....php?ref=fpblg

You gun nuts are making it really hard to give two ***** about your stupid *********** hobby. For those who don't know, that's right by a kids amusement park. ********.
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Old 10th January 2013, 12:09 AM   #410
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What is a "Broad brush" Alex?

PS. Did they break the law? Seems as they didn't. I don't support going out and scaring people like that though. Dumb move. Agreed.
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Old 10th January 2013, 12:23 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
What is a "Broad brush" Alex?

PS. Did they break the law? Seems as they didn't. I don't support going out and scaring people like that though. Dumb move. Agreed.
This affects me personally. First, the shooting in Clackamas, and now legally carrying freaks who go shutting down schools in my neighborhood. What sized brush should I use and how much should I give a crap about you guys and your toys while my neighbors call 911 in terror?
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Old 10th January 2013, 02:09 AM   #412
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Dude, de-caf, seriously
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Old 10th January 2013, 03:43 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
You keep using the word "need" when referring to someone carrying a firearm. I've explained this many times.

Most don't feel a need, but a want. They're two different words.
I know, I was talking about the ones who feel a need for a gun to protect themselves.

In any case please evidence your claim most have a want for a gun and not a need.
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Old 10th January 2013, 03:56 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Nessie, by your logic, is insurance a "need" or a security blanket? Because gun owners feel the same way about owning a gun. They just see it as insurance.
Insurance is a need or want that can also be described as a security blanket. On similar lines are warranties. I do not bother with any warranty, instead I self warranty. This is all down to finances. I know there is a very low risk of losing my entire house, but I could never afford to re-build it, so I insure it. I insure one of my motorbikes fully comprehensively as it is new and I would struggle to replace/repair it. I insure my other bike third party only as it cheap and I can afford to replace/repair it.

I modify due to risk. I see many gun owners as not doing that. They assume the highest risk and so can react very inappropriately to lower risk situations by shooting. I believe that because of instances such as Andrew De Vreis and Yoshihiro Hattori, tourists shot by scared gun owners and studies of DGUs, such as the Harvard School of Public Health that case suspicion on the appropriateness of the use of the gun. Then other instances such as the police officer shooting the naked student on drugs, the man who shot and killed a youth in a SUV which was playing loud music and Trayvon Martin.

It is the assessment of risk that is all squeued with many gun owners.
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Old 10th January 2013, 03:59 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
This is about half a mile from my house.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archive....php?ref=fpblg

You gun nuts are making it really hard to give two ***** about your stupid *********** hobby. For those who don't know, that's right by a kids amusement park. ********.
Vigilantes.
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Old 10th January 2013, 04:45 AM   #416
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I can see no problem with making gun owners take out a compulsory insruance policy when ever they purchase one, just like a car, while guns are designed to be lethal and cars are not, but if there is an accident involving one then they would be covered, or if it was stolen and traced back to the original owner after being used by a crim then the insurance can cover any damages that could be incurred.
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Old 10th January 2013, 04:48 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I know, I was talking about the ones who feel a need for a gun to protect themselves.
Then you need to be clear on that.

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
In any case please evidence your claim most have a want for a gun and not a need.
Um, go talk to 1000 gun owners in the US. Tell me what your results are.
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Old 10th January 2013, 04:56 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
This affects me personally. First, the shooting in Clackamas, and now legally carrying freaks who go shutting down schools in my neighborhood.
I understand your point, and I agree. I rarely open carry, and when I do, it's not a rifle, unless I am hunting.

Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
What sized brush should I use
One that doesn't encompass every legal, respectful, gun owner. But, doubtful you'll understand that not everyone agrees with their actions. Labeling an entire group because of the actions of a few, is dumb.

Just as if I labeled everyone from Oregon as a drunk who kills kids, because a drunk driver from Oregon killed a family on their way to Disney. Wouldn't be fair would it?


Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
and how much should I give a crap about you guys and your toys while my neighbors call 911 in terror?
I don't care how you feel. But when you post blatant broad brush statements, telling us that you don't care, blah blah blah, you make yourself look like an emotional freak who cannot think logically. If you want to have an opinion, fine, no problem there. But base it off of facts, and use logic to come to that opinion.

Fact: You didn't see the dozen or so other people who have a CWP in your state that you walked by, did you? Of course not.

I don't want to ban alcohol because a few people misuse it. But yet, you want to do that, with guns.

Now, I understand alcohol isn't designed to kill, so let's not go down that ignorant road again.
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Old 10th January 2013, 05:58 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Then you need to be clear on that.
I am. When I say need I mean need.



Quote:
Um, go talk to 1000 gun owners in the US. Tell me what your results are.
Er, no you evidence your claim.
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Old 10th January 2013, 07:20 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I am. When I say need I mean need.

Er, no you evidence your claim.
I need my guns to enhance my firearm collection; in other words I simply want them instead. My gun collection is more secure than that of the police/FBI as evidenced by +20 years of never losing one or allowing one to be used in any crime. I can also be trusted more with a gun than the Kennedy clan can with cars, airplanes and golf clubs.

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Old 10th January 2013, 07:40 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I need my guns to enhance my firearm collection; in other words I simply want them instead.
Fine, no issues there.

Quote:
My gun collection is more secure than that of the police/FBI as evidenced by +20 years of never losing one or allowing one to be used in any crime. I can also be trusted more with a gun than the Kennedy clan can with cars, airplanes and golf clubs.

Ranb
Not a very good comparison as you do not go out armed to tackle the bad guys and there are many police and FBI who have never lost a weapon or allowed it to be used in a crime.
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Old 10th January 2013, 07:58 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
I understand your point, and I agree. I rarely open carry, and when I do, it's not a rifle, unless I am hunting.



One that doesn't encompass every legal, respectful, gun owner. But, doubtful you'll understand that not everyone agrees with their actions. Labeling an entire group because of the actions of a few, is dumb.

Just as if I labeled everyone from Oregon as a drunk who kills kids, because a drunk driver from Oregon killed a family on their way to Disney. Wouldn't be fair would it?




I don't care how you feel. But when you post blatant broad brush statements, telling us that you don't care, blah blah blah, you make yourself look like an emotional freak who cannot think logically. If you want to have an opinion, fine, no problem there. But base it off of facts, and use logic to come to that opinion.

Fact: You didn't see the dozen or so other people who have a CWP in your state that you walked by, did you? Of course not.

I don't want to ban alcohol because a few people misuse it. But yet, you want to do that, with guns.

Now, I understand alcohol isn't designed to kill, so let's not go down that ignorant road again.
Two ******** shut down an elementary school. People frantically dialed 911 thinking there's another shooting rampage happening, and it's all because gun nuts wanted to "educate" the public. It worked. I now know you guys are *********** nuts. And you don't care how we feel about that and think the normal people are the freaks?

You're making it harder and harder to worry about your rights since you don't care about my right to be free from your guns.
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Old 10th January 2013, 08:31 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Two ******** shut down an elementary school. People frantically dialed 911 thinking there's another shooting rampage happening, and it's all because gun nuts wanted to "educate" the public. It worked. I now know you guys are *********** nuts. And you don't care how we feel about that and think the normal people are the freaks?

You're making it harder and harder to worry about your rights since you don't care about my right to be free from your guns.
Two blithering idiots are two blithering idiots. But glad to know that in your universe two is equal to all.
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Old 10th January 2013, 08:39 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Not a very good comparison as you do not go out armed to tackle the bad guys and there are many police and FBI who have never lost a weapon or allowed it to be used in a crime.
I do go out armed on accasion. I'm not aware of any police guns being lost while tackling the bad guys. The great majority of lost gun incidents I have read about were cases of carelessness on the part of the officer it was issued to. There is also the occasional theft by corrupt police officers.

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Old 10th January 2013, 08:40 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Two blithering idiots are two blithering idiots. But glad to know that in your universe two is equal to all.
We'll have to remember that when a couple of "Islamists" bomb a bus, or marketplace, or drive an airplane into a skyscraper...
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Old 10th January 2013, 08:45 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Two ******** shut down an elementary school. People frantically dialed 911 thinking there's another shooting rampage happening, and it's all because gun nuts wanted to "educate" the public. It worked. I now know you guys are *********** nuts. And you don't care how we feel about that and think the normal people are the freaks?

You're making it harder and harder to worry about your rights since you don't care about my right to be free from your guns.
Could they not have been charged with some sort of public order offence?
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Old 10th January 2013, 08:47 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
What is a "Broad brush" Alex?

PS. Did they break the law? Seems as they didn't. I don't support going out and scaring people like that though. Dumb move. Agreed.
Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
Dude, de-caf, seriously
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Two blithering idiots are two blithering idiots. But glad to know that in your universe two is equal to all.
By the way. If all you normal, law abiding, responsible gun owners would have reacted with horror at this incident instead of snark and hand waving, I'd have a lot more confidence that there was such a thing as normal, law abiding, responsible gun owners.
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Old 10th January 2013, 08:55 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
By the way. If all you normal, law abiding, responsible gun owners would have reacted with horror at this incident instead of snark and hand waving, I'd have a lot more confidence that there was such a thing as normal, law abiding, responsible gun owners.
Who made you the arbiter of the appropriate level of outrage? I reserve "horror" for Newtown and VT. These two morons just get a facepalm reaction - not "snark and hand waving". It'll be very unfortunate if they can't be charged with anything.
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Old 10th January 2013, 08:55 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Could they not have been charged with some sort of public order offence?
Apparently not. Since they are part of the super class of Responsible Gun Owners who got themselves a CCW permit, they can also "open carry" anywhere in the city. And it seems the overriding message is here is that they carried their assault rifles around a school "because they could".

In contrast to this, there was a young woman who went around topless in NYC to demonstrate that in NYC, being topless is legal. That was actually kind of awesome, since unlike guns, boobs are beautiful. But there was a huge outrage over it. I think the fact that there was more outrage over boobs in public than guns in public shows a serious character flaw in the population.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:01 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Who made you the arbiter of the appropriate level of outrage? I reserve "horror" for Newtown and VT. These two morons just get a facepalm reaction - not "snark and hand waving". It'll be very unfortunate if they can't be charged with anything.
I made myself arbiter of my own standards, thank you very much. At least you're saving your name calling for the two guys and not me, unlike Triforcharity.

They can't be charged with anything, because the NRA passed open carry laws all over the country. And since they could carry, they did, eschewing any concern for "how we feel about it".

The point must be made that in a normal society, the fact that you don't brandish weapons in a normal shopping area "because you can" is just common sense and common decency. Then you can make the case that you don't need laws against it, since no one would ever do something so insane. And yet last month people did it in Connecticut, they did it at Obama rallies, and they did it here in my neighborhood (where I go ride my bike).

So now I support abolishing open carry laws, since your right to open carry is conflicting with my right to not have insane gun nuts carrying guns around me and my family.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:03 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by Dcdrac View Post
I can see no problem with making gun owners take out a compulsory insruance policy when ever they purchase one, just like a car, while guns are designed to be lethal and cars are not, but if there is an accident involving one then they would be covered, or if it was stolen and traced back to the original owner after being used by a crim then the insurance can cover any damages that could be incurred.
That's not a bad idea. I was thinking that premiums could be lowered if claimants took regular gun safety classes and had secure storage for guns as means of encouraging due diligence.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:04 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Apparently not. Since they are part of the super class of Responsible Gun Owners who got themselves a CCW permit, they can also "open carry" anywhere in the city. And it seems the overriding message is here is that they carried their assault rifles around a school "because they could".

In contrast to this, there was a young woman who went around topless in NYC to demonstrate that in NYC, being topless is legal. That was actually kind of awesome, since unlike guns, boobs are beautiful. But there was a huge outrage over it. I think the fact that there was more outrage over boobs in public than guns in public shows a serious character flaw in the population.
It seems that you need to work on swaying the population to your way of thinking.

Do you think that your recent posts are conducive to that?




FWIW, my 2c on these guys:

They hurt their own cause. The only "educating" they achieved was to reinforce peoples pre-existing worries about gun nuts.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:05 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
I made myself arbiter of my own standards, thank you very much. At least you're saving your name calling for the two guys and not me, unlike Triforcharity.

They can't be charged with anything, because the NRA passed open carry laws all over the country. And since they could carry, they did, eschewing any concern for "how we feel about it".

The point must be made that in a normal society, the fact that you don't brandish weapons in a normal shopping area "because you can" is just common sense and common decency. Then you can make the case that you don't need laws against it, since no one would ever do something so insane. And yet last month people did it in Connecticut, they did it at Obama rallies, and they did it here in my neighborhood (where I go ride my bike).

So now I support abolishing open carry laws, since your right to open carry is conflicting with my right to not have insane gun nuts carrying guns around me and my family.
The NRA didn't pass anything. Legislatures did.

Beyond that, I don't disagree. I don't think forbidding open carry is unreasonable. And I'm a gun nut.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:15 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
It seems that you need to work on swaying the population to your way of thinking.

Do you think that your recent posts are conducive to that?
My posts are directed at the handful of people reading this thread. It is not "the population" and I don't labor under the illusion that minds are changed by what I write.

How's your population swaying endeavor going these days?
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:20 AM   #435
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Two ******** shut down an elementary school. People frantically dialed 911 thinking there's another shooting rampage happening, and it's all because gun nuts wanted to "educate" the public. It worked. I now know you guys are *********** nuts. And you don't care how we feel about that and think the normal people are the freaks?
Your town shuts down in panic, at the mere sight of a weapon on someone's person, but gun-owners supposedly have a problem with irrational fear?
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:26 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
By the way. If all you normal, law abiding, responsible gun owners would have reacted with horror at this incident instead of snark and hand waving, I'd have a lot more confidence that there was such a thing as normal, law abiding, responsible gun owners.
It was an epic fail in terms of gun owners behaving responsibly. It also shows an outcome if the NRA had their way and loads more people carried guns. It would mean a tyranny of gun owners frightening people who chose to live their lives without guns.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:28 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by Ferguson View Post
Your town shuts down in panic, at the mere sight of a weapon on someone's person, but gun-owners supposedly have a problem with irrational fear?
Bringing AR-15s into a school less than a month after Sandy Hook is an appropriate time to panic. I don't think that's too irrational. These two guys are dumber than stones for doing this, and do their (and my) side no good by doing it.

If they wanted to educate, they should have arranged for a uniformed policeman to do the educating - or at the absolute least, accompany them.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:31 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by Ferguson View Post
Your town shuts down in panic, at the mere sight of a weapon on someone's person, but gun-owners supposedly have a problem with irrational fear?
With so much gun crime and so many mass shootings is it really unreasonable to be concerned about people openly carrying guns?

How would firearms owners react if me and some mates started to walk about outside their house armed with axes, machetes and clubs?
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:32 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by Ferguson View Post
Your town shuts down in panic, at the mere sight of a weapon on someone's person, but gun-owners supposedly have a problem with irrational fear?
Thanks for once again demonstrating that the elusive "responsible gun owner" is a phantasm.

So far, only Polaris is expressing a reasonable reaction to this incident.
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Old 10th January 2013, 09:34 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Bringing AR-15s into a school less than a month after Sandy Hook is an appropriate time to panic. I don't think that's too irrational. These two guys are dumber than stones for doing this, and do their (and my) side no good by doing it.

If they wanted to educate, they should have arranged for a uniformed policeman to do the educating - or at the absolute least, accompany them.
Thank you.
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