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Old 11th January 2013, 05:45 PM   #521
R.Mackey
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Just going off of what [one] article states.
My edit respectfully added.

This is still a critical thinking board, right?

If you can come up for a better reason why he got 31 rounds out of a 33 round magazine, I'm all ears.
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Old 11th January 2013, 05:48 PM   #522
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Maybe he didn't load the magazine to 33.
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Old 11th January 2013, 05:50 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by shawmutt View Post
Nah, they don't want all your guns you silly gun owners! Go to sleep.... Go to sleep...

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/TOB/S/201...122-R00-SB.htm
They didn't say it had to be muzzle loaded, did they? Kwicherbichen.
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Old 11th January 2013, 05:50 PM   #524
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Possible, but there's no evidence for that. Typically one loads a mag until it won't hold any more. 31 is a pretty odd choice, and it's hard to imagine how he would have done that accidentally.
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Old 11th January 2013, 05:52 PM   #525
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His fingers got tired? Who knows? What really matters is that once he had to stop shooting, he was hampered by a woman and then tackled. Reloading takes time, and at that time, a person is more vulnerable to being neutralized.
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Old 11th January 2013, 05:54 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
I noticed that today. Couldn't hardly find any 9mm anywhere. Finally found some cheap steel cased 9mm from Russia. Actually shot pretty true, and not one FTF or FTE. And about 10 bones a box.
Ammunition up 400% + on old M193 practice ammo - $815.00 per K.

The good stuff (M 262) is running at about $2.00 per round
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Old 11th January 2013, 06:01 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
His fingers got tired? Who knows? What really matters is that once he had to stop shooting, he was hampered by a woman and then tackled. Reloading takes time, and at that time, a person is more vulnerable to being neutralized.

Actually, it matters because know-nothings -- some of whom are senior elected representatives -- are using this as an excuse for their anti-magazine-capacity legislation proposals. In reality, the cases they cite don't make such a clear pattern. If anything, restricting magazine capacity will only mean maniacs carry MORE magazines, now smaller and more reliable, or MORE firearms altogether. The effect will be to unwittingly funnel these untrained idiots into adopting more lethal choices.

For example, that scumbag who shot up the theater in Aurora Colorado recently. Everybody focuses on the AR-15 because it's a scary "Assault Rifle" and there's money/votes to be had attacking them. What's forgotten is that he JAMMED, because being a moron he had it prepped with a 100-round Betamag, which the educated know to be little more than range toys. The majority of those he shot were hit with shotgun pellets, not rifle bullets.

The Virginia Tech shooter, standard magazines (10 and 15 rounds). Lots of them. Deadliest single shooter in American history.

I have all three -- standard (20-round), high capacity (30-round), and "California compliant" (10-round) magazines for my AR-15, and I shoot timed events. The practical difference between them is not statistically significant.

If your approach to stopping crime relies upon an attempt to regulate magazines, for which tens of millions are already in the field and any halfway decent shop graduate can make new ones, then you've already failed. The whole idea is preposterous.

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Old 11th January 2013, 06:03 PM   #528
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Reloading means time not shooting. Sorry, but it does make a difference.
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Old 11th January 2013, 06:07 PM   #529
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I have hard data that says otherwise, but thanks for playing.
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Old 11th January 2013, 06:14 PM   #530
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Reloading = not shooting.
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Old 11th January 2013, 07:05 PM   #531
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Reloading = not shooting.

This has gotten silly, but...

...if one changes mags at an opportune time before exhausting all the ammo in the current mag, his weapon will likely* be "hot" while he or she reloads.


* Some semi-automatic pistols have magazine safeties, and cannot be fired without a magazine in place - even if there's a round in the chamber.
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:33 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It could be a drum type.

But please, can you tell me why a 30 round magazine is preferable to a 5 round magazine?
Drum and helium bullets? Are you playing with Hollywood physics again?

I notice you avoid all those stories I post out of inconvenience to your...logic.

Last edited by shawmutt; 11th January 2013 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:39 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
This has gotten silly, but...

...if one changes mags at an opportune time before exhausting all the ammo in the current mag, his weapon will likely* be "hot" while he or she reloads.


* Some semi-automatic pistols have magazine safeties, and cannot be fired without a magazine in place - even if there's a round in the chamber.
Browning's only mistake, the magazine safety in the P35.
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Old 11th January 2013, 09:08 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Ammunition up 400% + on old M193 practice ammo - $815.00 per K.

The good stuff (M 262) is running at about $2.00 per round



I just checked on .223 ammo......$769..... I used to pay about 400ish for 1k.

Even reload supplies are hard to come by.

I did find a local retailer here, small mom and pop shop, that has them pretty inexpensive, comparatively.
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Old 11th January 2013, 09:44 PM   #535
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I finally found some. A Walmart by my job had just received a couple cases. Not my favorite brand/grain (I prefer subsonic stuff for some reason), but I got what I need for tomorrow's class.

I've all but abandoned my goals for 3-gun and/or cowboy action shooting. I got two kiddos I have to put through college first! I have two new goals though, one is getting into .22 competition (maybe even starting something similar to 3-gun but with .22 pistol/rifle and 20 guage shottie). The second is going through all the bs to get a suppressor for a .22 pistol.

Only problem I have with starting on my .22 endeavor is finding a decent pistol. It seems like the Browning Buckmark or Ruger Mark II/III is the way to go, but I just don't like the looks of either and apparently the cleaning sucks. I also haven't seen one with a threaded barrel. I really like the Sig Mosquito but I'm not sure it's an appropriate "match gun".
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Old 12th January 2013, 08:48 AM   #536
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I believe I've found the most outrageous example of panic pricing.

On Gunbroker a seller has a M16 bolt carrier assembly for a buy it now price of...wait for it...

$1199.00 American Dollars.

There is a guy selling some very rare examples of rifles that would be subject to the currently proposed nonsense for prices only 100% above value, a Joe Poyer imported Aussie L1A1 NIB for $13,750.00, and a lightweight G series FAL NIB for $11,995.00
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Old 12th January 2013, 12:07 PM   #537
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All of this shows just how pointless trying to ban or remove any guns from the USA is.
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Old 12th January 2013, 01:05 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
All of this shows just how pointless trying to ban or remove any guns from the USA is.
Or perhaps you have spent too much time listening to the small minority of Americans who are too paranoid to live without firearms.
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:00 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Or perhaps you have spent too much time listening to the small minority of Americans who are too paranoid self-reliant to live without firearms.
Fixed!
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:01 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Or perhaps you have spent too much time listening to the small minority of Americans who are too paranoid to live without firearms.
small minority? 80-100 million people and perhaps as much as 50% of households is a small minority?
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:08 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
small minority? 80-100 million people and perhaps as much as 50% of households is a small minority?
Given that demographics are changing in the US, and as minorities get more influence (given that they are pro gun control) and that the GOP will fade away (most of them are going to be over 65 soon), we will probably see gun owners eventually become a small minority.

ETA: Source is from Spacebattles: http://forums.spacebattles.com/threa...5#post-9530249
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:09 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Or perhaps you have spent too much time listening to the small minority of Americans who are too paranoid to live without firearms.
Sadly I have read enough to believe too many gun owners would rather shoot it out with the police or ATF official who comes round to their house to seize their guns to make it a sensible exercise.

It is a horrible thing to say, but because someone with a gun has the ability to change rule of law into rule of force to get their own way, they have the upper hand in this.

It puts tyranny on its head that instead of gun owners protecting all from tyranny, they have imposed one of their own.

Because of that the one action that is likely to meet with some success is action to get guns off criminals and nuts. The actions proposed so far by Feinstein are not going to do that. They just play into the gun owners hands by tackling them before tackling the real problem.
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:18 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Given that demographics are changing in the US, and as minorities get more influence (given that they are pro gun control)...
Your link did not provide a source.

Anecdotally, lots of Cuban expatriates in and around Miami were pretty pro-gun when I lived there. Maybe that's changed.

But maybe a totally disarmed nation of minorities is where the US is headed. If so, I hope the gov't is always benevolent, because if it ever turns malevolent, the people will be at their mercy.
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:20 PM   #544
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Given that demographics are changing in the US, and as minorities get more influence (given that they are pro gun control) and that the GOP will fade away (most of them are going to be over 65 soon), we will probably see gun owners eventually become a small minority.

ETA: Source is from Spacebattles: http://forums.spacebattles.com/threa...5#post-9530249
evidence? every minority person I know owns guns. I think you are assuming that because minorities tend to be democrats that this makes them pro gun control. LOL, nope!

this idea that guns are only owned by republicans is false, the more you folks can get a grip on that the better off you will be
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:24 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Your link did not provide a source.

Anecdotally, lots of Cuban expatriates in and around Miami were pretty pro-gun when I lived there. Maybe that's changed.

But maybe a totally disarmed nation of minorities is where the US is headed. If so, I hope the gov't is always benevolent, because if it ever turns malevolent, the people will be at their mercy.
I find it staggering that some believe there could or even should be a USA with no civilian guns.

There are loads of countries where civilian gun ownership runs at about a quarter to a third of the civilian population with nothing like the deaths experienced in the USA. There is a middle way, which is to only have decent law abiding citizens entrusted to have guns.

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-gun-contro...zerland-732104
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:37 PM   #546
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Nobody thinks criminals should have guns though. The problem is, criminals don't care about, you know, gun laws.
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Old 12th January 2013, 02:38 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post

Because of that the one action that is likely to meet with some success is action to get guns off criminals and nuts. The actions proposed so far by Feinstein are not going to do that. They just play into the gun owners hands by tackling them before tackling the real problem.
This.
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Old 12th January 2013, 03:02 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
Nobody thinks criminals should have guns though. The problem is, criminals don't care about, you know, gun laws.
That sounds like there is an enforcement and punishment problem. The laws are not successfully enforced and the criminals not punished enough to make them care about the law.
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Old 12th January 2013, 03:11 PM   #549
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That sounds like there is an enforcement and punishment problem. The laws are not successfully enforced and the criminals not punished enough to make them care about the law.
Bingo. And you know what, I'd have a hard time coming up with a gun advocate who disagrees with the above.
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Old 12th January 2013, 03:12 PM   #550
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well, when someone is in a gang and plans to drive around the corner and shoot up an opposing gang member's house, whether or not they are violating a gun law is probably at the low end of their priorities.
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Old 12th January 2013, 03:13 PM   #551
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I also tend to think that by decriminalizing drugs we could put those law enforcement dollars to better use and do a better job of enforcing gun laws.

Mandatory background checks for private sales would be a good start.
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Old 12th January 2013, 04:41 PM   #552
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Originally Posted by shawmutt View Post
Drum and helium bullets? Are you playing with Hollywood physics again?

I notice you avoid all those stories I post out of inconvenience to your...logic.
I notice how you try to avoid the fact that reloading is the time when a shooter is more vulnerable. Drum bullets? Who the heck said that? Drum style magazine, those exist.

Why do armies want the larger capacity magazines in their assault rifles instead of the smaller ones? So they don't have to reload as often.
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Old 12th January 2013, 04:42 PM   #553
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Fixed!
If you can't live without a fire-arm, how are you self-reliant?!
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Old 12th January 2013, 04:55 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
If you can't live without a fire-arm, how are you self-reliant?!
I don't think that was the import of my change, but...

...what I was trying to say was that without a firearm, one is reliant on the good will of others, and at the whim of that good will.

I think!
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Old 12th January 2013, 05:43 PM   #555
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Why do armies want the larger capacity magazines in their assault rifles instead of the smaller ones? So they don't have to reload as often.
Which, as a few of us have explained, it's a secondary priority.

We've already explained the first.
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Old 12th January 2013, 06:14 PM   #556
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That sounds like there is an enforcement and punishment problem. The laws are not successfully enforced and the criminals not punished enough to make them care about the law.
Yup, and we have the gun lobby pandering to paranoia and making life safe for people diverting firearms to criminals.

For example, the BATF is prohibited from inspecting a licensed dealer more than once a year. Even when that dealer has shown an inability to follow the rules as required by law.

The government is prohibited from using computers to keep track of firearms registration. Computerized records could be easily searched for buying patterns leading to straw buyers. Tracing a firearm found at a crime scene could be a quick computer query instead of hours or days of manually searching records at dealers shops.

The private seller exemption allows criminals and black market dealers to easily acquire firearms without a background check or paper trail linking them to the firearm. This is really handy for guys selling handguns to street punks.
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Old 12th January 2013, 06:34 PM   #557
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And we have Feinstein and those in bed with her who are pandering to the idea that banning future sale of assault weapons to civilians while leaving 2 million plus of them in private hands and punishing those that do not register them or attach a banned doo-dad to them will somehow reduce the crime rate in the country or reduce the number of children murdered here.

I noticed that it was all about banning the guns right after the latest tragedy and not about controls to keep them out of the wrong hands.

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Old 12th January 2013, 07:30 PM   #558
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Yup, and we have the gun lobby pandering to paranoia and making life safe for people diverting firearms to criminals.

For example, the BATF is prohibited from inspecting a licensed dealer more than once a year. Even when that dealer has shown an inability to follow the rules as required by law.

The government is prohibited from using computers to keep track of firearms registration. Computerized records could be easily searched for buying patterns leading to straw buyers. Tracing a firearm found at a crime scene could be a quick computer query instead of hours or days of manually searching records at dealers shops.

The private seller exemption allows criminals and black market dealers to easily acquire firearms without a background check or paper trail linking them to the firearm. This is really handy for guys selling handguns to street punks.
Not only this, but the BATF has not had a director for NINE YEARS.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep...ector-20110907

The GOP refuses to confirm anyone, Republican or Democrat, for the post. It's almost as if the party that's bought and paid for by the gun lobby wants to prevent the BATF from functioning. Wonder why that is?
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Old 12th January 2013, 07:45 PM   #559
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Quote:
Wonder why that is?
What's your theory?
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Old 12th January 2013, 07:49 PM   #560
rwguinn
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Not only this, but the BATF has not had a director for NINE YEARS.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep...ector-20110907

The GOP refuses to confirm anyone, Republican or Democrat, for the post. It's almost as if the party that's bought and paid for by the gun lobby wants to prevent the BATF from functioning. Wonder why that is?
gee- that's 2 administrations. One of them an "R"
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