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Old 18th May 2020, 06:54 AM   #601
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I tend to agree, although I have had a few people talking to me about aliens and UFO's over the past couple of years. A couple of people have even claimed that they might as well believe in UFO's, as there's more evidence for them than there is for God, which, for me, is honestly a sentence that I can't make sense of no matter how many angles I attack it at, lol.


While I certainly don't agree with the UFO believers, I think I can follow what they have told you. Gods supposedly come from heaven, or like locals, which no one can point to. UFOs supposedly come from planets around other stars, which we can see. The one story is pure fantasy, the other only mostly.
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Old 18th May 2020, 11:24 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oops. Full credit to theprestige for posting it first.
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Old 18th May 2020, 11:26 AM   #603
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I'm just glad I'm not the only one who thought of it.
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Old 18th May 2020, 02:31 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who thought of it.
Great minds etc.
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Old 18th May 2020, 06:56 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by MohamedTaqi View Post
To 'explain' something, implies that the something is a phenomenon. Ghosts are not a phenomenon, but just a definition.

So, there is nothing to explain.
No. Ghosts are a side-effect.

Not explaining them can get people hurt, as in the case of CO2 poisoning, and outgassing from toxic sheetrock. They may also be diabetic.

This is why it is important to understand why people see, or think they see them. Non-existence is a starting point, not an end point.
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Old 18th May 2020, 07:55 PM   #606
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Ghosts are diabetic? How did that come about?


Also, do you have a link to a peer-reviewed journal article on this?
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Old 18th May 2020, 09:52 PM   #607
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I think what the Axxman was saying is that the perception of ghosts could be a symptom of diabetes, but it's not one I've heard about.
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Old 19th May 2020, 12:21 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
Ghosts are diabetic? How did that come about?


Also, do you have a link to a peer-reviewed journal article on this?
Symptom of diabetes. Blood sugar spikes lead to sleep apnea. Sleep apnea accounts for many of the more dramatic ghost encounters due to sleep paralysis. A diabetic fog can make a person hear things.

Most diabetics don't know they have the disease until it's far along.

If someone tells me they're seeing hooded figures standing at the end of their bed the first thing I tell them is to check their blood glucose.
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Old 19th May 2020, 01:47 AM   #609
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Anecdata from a diabetic: on the couple of occasions my levels have got completely out of whack I've been in a bizarre mental state until things calmed down. We're talking the same level as when off my head on serious medication post-surgery. As far as I can remember it.
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Old 19th May 2020, 05:58 AM   #610
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I should have used an emoticon or " /s " to indicate that my comment was intended to be humorous.
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Old 19th May 2020, 11:20 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
While I certainly don't agree with the UFO believers, I think I can follow what they have told you. Gods supposedly come from heaven, or like locals, which no one can point to. UFOs supposedly come from planets around other stars, which we can see. The one story is pure fantasy, the other only mostly.
It's not that I don't get what they're trying to say, I'm usually just being pedantic, but I find their comments baffling all the same.

IMO, having evidence for UFO's just means you've got some evidence that an object that you can't identify was flying through the air, not that aliens exist or that the object came from anywhere other than earth.

IMO, there's no evidence to suggest aliens exist, nor that they've ever visited earth once, never mind multiple times. I'm sceptical of most UFO sightings, tbh.

So I get what they mean, but I don't really agree with it. Both stories are purely based in speculation, IMO, yet I don't mind anyone believing in either.
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Old 19th May 2020, 12:09 PM   #612
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The problem, as we all know, is that although UFO is almost the correct term for what people see, it has come to mean something else.

The correct term as pointed out in this or another thread, is "UVP" for Unidentified Visual Phenomenon.

What believers mean by "UFO" is "ILIAFT" for Interstellar (or Intergalactic or Interdimensional) Live Intelligent Alien-owned Flying Thing." Usually the believers think that the ILIAs have some strange interest or fascination or obsession with human sexual organs or activity or something.


We never hear about these ILIAs investigating the sexual activities of rhesus monkeys, or elands, or turtles? Why is that?
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Old 19th May 2020, 12:34 PM   #613
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post


We never hear about these ILIAs investigating the sexual activities of rhesus monkeys, or elands, or turtles? Why is that?
The aliens that tried to anal probe grizzly bears are all ghosts now.
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Old 19th May 2020, 01:19 PM   #614
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Reminds me of a postcard with the caption "Grizzly Bear Artificial Insemination Team, Wyoming."

Also, aliens would probably be very confused by hyenas.
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Old 19th May 2020, 02:25 PM   #615
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
I should have used an emoticon or " /s " to indicate that my comment was intended to be humorous.
I figured you were, but it's a great opportunity to better explain my point.
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Old 19th May 2020, 04:44 PM   #616
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
IMO, having evidence for UFO's just means you've got some evidence that an object that you can't identify was flying through the air, not that aliens exist or that the object came from anywhere other than earth.
But even that statement assumes that the phenomenon you are seeing is an object. Many aren't.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:08 AM   #617
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
But even that statement assumes that the phenomenon you are seeing is an object. Many aren't.
Of course, all of these sightings vary, but generally, most people see an actual object, they just don't know what it is. It's usually a plane.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:33 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Of course, all of these sightings vary, but generally, most people see an actual object, they just don't know what it is. It's usually a plane.
One of the frustrating things about UFO reports is that you can't actually say that it's usually a plane.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:48 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One of the frustrating things about UFO reports is that you can't actually say that it's usually a plane.
I guess that's true, but I'm generally speaking from my own experiences with some people who have definitely seen a plane of some sort. Near to Speke airport here in Liverpool, you tend to see all manner of planes flying overhead, and I knew one fella who quite often spotted UFOs in Speke.

I feel planes are a more obvious explanation for UFOs, but they don't account for all sightings, but I do believe all sightings have their logical explanations.

As a kid, me and a few mates had a UFO-spotting club, you can imagine we saw them quite frequently! I think that goes for many people who intentionally set out to find UFOs, or ghosts, or Bigfoot, Nessie, etc, you start seeing the buggers everywhere.

I remember working with one ex-fireman, quite an intelligent chap, but he had a thing for ghosts, as did I, I just didn't believe in them, whereas he did. He had one of those ghost apps that lots of people had in 2010, around then. He'd matter-of-factly walk up to me during shifts and would show me his app, telling me to have a wander round a certain abandoned warehouse on my break as he'd had some good readings! Needless to say I asked if I could have a wander there during my shift, as opposed to my break, and he obliged. I'd sit in the old warehouse just eating a chocolate bar and generally doing bugger-all for 30 minutes.
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Old 20th May 2020, 10:14 AM   #620
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Originally Posted by MohamedTaqi View Post
To 'explain' something, implies that the something is a phenomenon. Ghosts are not a phenomenon, but just a definition.

So, there is nothing to explain.
Sort of. They are a claimed phenomenon. Those claims, however, evaporate when subjected to close examination. Or any examination at all.
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Old 20th May 2020, 05:09 PM   #621
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Floating pieces of roofing bubble wrap (metallic on one side, white on the other) have confused the **** out of me on a few occasions.
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Old 20th May 2020, 05:43 PM   #622
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I saw a UFO once. It was on my first trip to America, and I was driving from LA to Vegas for TAM7. On one very long straight stretch of road I idly looked out the window and saw a bright point of light, which seemed to be following along with the vehicle. It passed behind some clouds, and after a while it vanished without a trace.

I still don't know exactly what it was. My best guess is that it was an Iridium flare.

ETA: I wasn't driving. hcmom was driving - I was the passenger.
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Old 21st May 2020, 01:27 AM   #623
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I saw a UFO once. It was on my first trip to America, and I was driving from LA to Vegas for TAM7. On one very long straight stretch of road I idly looked out the window and saw a bright point of light, which seemed to be following along with the vehicle. It passed behind some clouds, and after a while it vanished without a trace.

I still don't know exactly what it was. My best guess is that it was an Iridium flare.

ETA: I wasn't driving. hcmom was driving - I was the passenger.
Could it have been a satellite which vanished when it went into the earth's shadow?
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Old 21st May 2020, 03:32 AM   #624
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In the summer of 69 I spied three ufos. To my eye they where just point like stars and that's what I thought they were until two moved a short distance apart in relation to another star nearby from each other then stopped. I observed them for a few more minutes, but no further movement was seen. I then observed another part of the night sky a few degrees away and once again saw a point of light move a short distance and stop. No further movement was seen. In the summer of 72 under a featureless overcast sky I spied an orange ball of light slowly moving under the cloud cover in a straight path. I watched it for as long as possible until my view was blocked by trees. Both by definition were ufos.

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Old 21st May 2020, 03:36 AM   #625
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Could it have been a satellite which vanished when it went into the earth's shadow?

Satellites are usually not bright enough to be seen through a car window. And Iridium flare is a possibility, but they do not last long.

I think the ISS (which of course is technically also a satellite) is the best fit, and as you say, it could disappear into the Earth's shadow, which I have seen often enough if the transit happened long after sunset.
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Old 21st May 2020, 04:12 AM   #626
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
In the summer of 72 under a featureless overcast sky I spied an orange ball of light slowly moving under the cloud cover in a straight path. I watched it for as long as possible until my view was blocked by trees. Both by definition were ufos.
Can't immediately think of a possible explanation for the first one, but the orange ball of light might well have been a sky lantern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_lantern

My nephew and his new wife launched one at their wedding reception here in the UK a few years ago, it seems to have become a thing.

And yes, steenkh, the ISS was the satellite I thought most likely. It's easily the brightest.
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Old 21st May 2020, 05:05 AM   #627
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Can't immediately think of a possible explanation for the first one, but the orange ball of light might well have been a sky lantern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_lantern

My nephew and his new wife launched one at their wedding reception here in the UK a few years ago, it seems to have become a thing.

And yes, steenkh, the ISS was the satellite I thought most likely. It's easily the brightest.
I thought of the lantern too but the lanterns I've seen in person flicker. This orange light was steady. Perhaps the earlier occurances were 3 satellites in a geostationary orbit repositioning.
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Old 21st May 2020, 08:40 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I thought of the lantern too but the lanterns I've seen in person flicker. This orange light was steady.
I note from the wiki article that they've been banned in some countries because of the fire hazard. Perhaps some enterprising soul has started manufacturing them with an led inside instead of a candle.

ETA: Just googled 'sky lantern led'

http://www.intrepidlife.com/helium-a...-sky-lanterns/

Yep.

Quote:
Perhaps the earlier occurrences were 3 satellites in a geostationary orbit repositioning.
Possibly. ISTR there was a new type of supply rocket which was sent up to the ISS, and which stood off for a while for checks before docking. That apparently produced a spate of UFO reports.
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Old 21st May 2020, 09:37 AM   #629
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I thought of the lantern too but the lanterns I've seen in person flicker. This orange light was steady. Perhaps the earlier occurances were 3 satellites in a geostationary orbit repositioning.
Please don't take this personally.

One of the factors we need to consider in this particular account is that it's a recollection of something seen almost fifty years ago. So we need to take into account not only the known issues with human perception in the moment, but also known issues with the consistency of human memory over time.

At fifty year's remove, I don't think we can make any reasonable analysis of this UFO sighting. Even some basic "facts" such as the weather, the color of the light, it's steadiness, and even the year it was seen cannot be stipulated with any confidence.
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Old 21st May 2020, 09:49 AM   #630
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Ah. I missed the date of the orange ball sighting. Probably not an led in a sky lantern then.
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Old 21st May 2020, 10:40 AM   #631
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We don’t.
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Old 21st May 2020, 06:58 PM   #632
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Please don't take this personally.

One of the factors we need to consider in this particular account is that it's a recollection of something seen almost fifty years ago. So we need to take into account not only the known issues with human perception in the moment, but also known issues with the consistency of human memory over time.

At fifty year's remove, I don't think we can make any reasonable analysis of this UFO sighting. Even some basic "facts" such as the weather, the color of the light, it's steadiness, and even the year it was seen cannot be stipulated with any confidence.
I've been a skeptically minded person for a long time and well aware of the fallible nature of memory.
My recollection on this particular incident is clear. Here are some more details. I was early summer. As I said the sky was overcast *( completely with Stratus clouds). There was no wind at ground level and it was late evening. I estimate the light was between 60°- 75° looking east above my head moving slowly drifting, I would say from north to south. Which allowed me to observe It throughly without any surprise. It was orange in color. I observed no other lights associated with it. The year was 71 or 72. The date for the other was mid **August of 69. As I said, I have a clear memory of both observed occurances. I never asked for an analysis. I was only relating an observed occurance.
*
** The reason I remember the older occurrence clearly is that where I live August tends to be humid with skies tending to be hazy. The sky on this night was unusually clear of haze and that's why I decided to star gaze and saw this unusual occurrence
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Old 21st May 2020, 07:15 PM   #633
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Interesting that a ghost thread has turned into a UFO thread.
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Old 21st May 2020, 07:23 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I've been a skeptically minded person for a long time and well aware of the fallible nature of memory.
My recollection on this particular incident is clear. Here are some more details. I was early summer. As I said the sky was overcast *( completely with Stratus clouds). There was no wind at ground level and it was late evening. I estimate the light was between 60°- 75° looking east above my head moving slowly drifting, I would say from north to south. Which allowed me to observe It throughly without any surprise. It was orange in color. I observed no other lights associated with it. The year was 71 or 72. The date for the other was mid **August of 69. As I said, I have a clear memory of both observed occurances. I never asked for an analysis. I was only relating an observed occurance.
*
** The reason I remember the older occurrence clearly is that where I live August tends to be humid with skies tending to be hazy. The sky on this night was unusually clear of haze and that's why I decided to star gaze and saw this unusual occurrence
Previously you said 1972. Now you're saying 1971 or 1972.

Also I'm not sure that remembering more details is the same as rembering events accurately.
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Old 21st May 2020, 08:31 PM   #635
EHocking
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I've been a skeptically minded person for a long time and well aware of the fallible nature of memory.
My recollection on this particular incident is clear. Here are some more details. I was early summer. As I said the sky was overcast *( completely with Stratus clouds). There was no wind at ground level and it was late evening. I estimate the light was between 60°- 75° looking east above my head moving slowly drifting, I would say from north to south. Which allowed me to observe It throughly without any surprise. It was orange in color. I observed no other lights associated with it. The year was 71 or 72. The date for the other was mid **August of 69. As I said, I have a clear memory of both observed occurances. I never asked for an analysis. I was only relating an observed occurance.
*
** The reason I remember the older occurrence clearly is that where I live August tends to be humid with skies tending to be hazy. The sky on this night was unusually clear of haze and that's why I decided to star gaze and saw this unusual occurrence
A fighter jet with afterburner lit, if sufficiently high and also distant from you, would appear to "slowly" cross the sky from your perspective.

I"m nearly certain that this would be the best explanation for the "floating" fireball that I saw many years ago. Clear cloudless sky, no sound, no apparent movement, binoculars on it (birdwatcher).
Just disappeared into the black smoke associated with the fireball.

It is an explanation I am unhappy with, but only because I had (and have) no way of confirming it definitevely.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 04:49 AM   #636
Steve001
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Previously you said 1972. Now you're saying 1971 or 1972.

Also I'm not sure that remembering more details is the same as rembering events accurately.
Aren't details necessarily a part of accuracy? Of course they are. The story is this. It's a short one and it goes like this. I saw a orange light moving across the sky.. Please don't think you see I'm intimating aliens, because I am not.


Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
A fighter jet with afterburner lit, if sufficiently high and also distant from you, would appear to "slowly" cross the sky from your perspective.

I"m nearly certain that this would be the best explanation for the "floating" fireball that I saw many years ago. Clear cloudless sky, no sound, no apparent movement, binoculars on it (birdwatcher).
Just disappeared into the black smoke associated with the fireball.

It is an explanation I am unhappy with, but only because I had (and have) no way of confirming it definitevely.
Status clouds have a maximum height of 6000-7000 feet depending on the reference used.. Keep in mind I'm looking east and the orange light is moving north to south. I would characterize it's speed as that of a single engine plane at low speed. Not a jet. Or perhaps someone had rigged a helium balloon to glow internally or maybe it was a Chinese lantern. What it was I will never know.

Last edited by Steve001; 22nd May 2020 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 05:57 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Aren't details necessarily a part of accuracy? Of course they are. The story is this. It's a short one and it goes like this. I saw a orange light moving across the sky.. Please don't think you see I'm intimating aliens, because I am not.



Status clouds have a maximum height of 6000-7000 feet depending on the reference used.. Keep in mind I'm looking east and the orange light is moving north to south. I would characterize it's speed as that of a single engine plane at low speed. Not a jet. Or perhaps someone had rigged a helium balloon to glow internally or maybe it was a Chinese lantern. What it was I will never know.
People always underestimate the difficulty of gauging distance, size and speed of any object against/in a featureless sky.

Even experienced sky watcher, plane spotters, pilots and birders for instance, can be fooled and certainly fool themselves. Even when you are aware of this, mistaken estimates are easy to make.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 06:26 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Aren't details necessarily a part of accuracy? Of course they are. The story is this. It's a short one and it goes like this. I saw a orange light moving across the sky.. Please don't think you see I'm intimating aliens, because I am not.
I don't think you're intimating aliens.

Inaccurate memories aren't characterized by the absence of detail, but by the presence of inaccurate detail.

This is one of the problems with trying to identify UFOs from secondhand reports. There's no way to be sure that the reporter is remembering the right details.

ETA: Earlier you said it was the summer of '72. Then you said it was the summer of '71 or '72. The details are there, but where is the accuracy?

Last edited by theprestige; 22nd May 2020 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:07 AM   #639
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The videos recently of a translucent diamond or pyramid shape floating over the Pentagon and Kremlin tied into the repeated odd sightings over the volcano seen from my bedroom window.

My wife took a picture of the volcano blowing dust. Decent big megapixel cell phone. All instances of this form were captured on phones as I seen.

An artifact of the technology is my best guess.

When zoomed in a diamond shape appeared in the edge of the dust rising.

This form didn't happen on old film cameras, only since electronic media got more capable.
My older low MP phone cameras never gave much more than fuzzy blur when zoomed in.

My wife was not expecting anything but the volcano doing what it does five times a day. She also doesn't believe its from outer space or inside the volcano, as some woo mongers claim is possible.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:32 AM   #640
Steve001
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Angry

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think you're intimating aliens.

Inaccurate memories aren't characterized by the absence of detail, but by the presence of inaccurate detail.

This is one of the problems with trying to identify UFOs from secondhand reports. There's no way to be sure that the reporter is remembering the right details.

ETA: Earlier you said it was the summer of '72. Then you said it was the summer of '71 or '72. The details are there, but where is the accuracy?
The accuracy is, in the fact I witnessed an orange ball of light moving slowly across the sky. All of the other details I wrote are irrelevant.
I've noticed something about your modus operandi. And that is you like to argue over the most nitpicky things just for the sake of it. Your reply is evidence of that characteristic. Now certainly there must be a reply somewhere if this forum that is surely worthy to argue over instead of wasting time and brain power doing it with my trivial story.
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