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Old 16th April 2020, 07:49 PM   #321
mike81
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
What's not fine is that you haven't supported any of your claims. Does that mean that you now withdraw them?

For example, you said that your government
  • is taking advantage of [your] fear and ignorance
  • is bribing [you] to just sit back and do or not do whatever they say
  • is inflating the number of deaths by counting unconfirmed cases
So do you think that the American government is wrecking the economy just to piss you off? I really don't get it. Perhaps you can explain it more clearly.

We both know there is no way for me to prove any of those three things. I'll admit it's just my opinion about what's going on. It's my opinion that we have taken things too far or are on the verge of taking them too far. We are in some ways overreacting. Sorry if it disagrees with your opinion.

They may not be intentionally doing anything wrong. That does not mean that they are doing it right. Their fear of the unknown and something new could be making them make irrational decisions.

Also I do not really think they are technically bribing us. I just compare it to bribing. Again sorry if that is not the perfect word for what is going on.

Last edited by mike81; 16th April 2020 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:00 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
I'll admit it's just my opinion about what's going on. It's my opinion that we have taken things too far or are on the verge of taking them too far. We are in some ways overreacting. Sorry if it disagrees with your opinion.
Whatever. The fact is that covid is a global crisis. Your government (and every other) is dancing its ass off trying to avoid more of a disaster.
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:02 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Whatever. The fact is that covid is a global crisis. Your government (and every other) is dancing its ass off trying to avoid more of a disaster.
That may be their intent. That does not mean they are doing it correctly or they are not going too far. They can be both trying to stop it and taking advantage of it at the same time.

Last edited by mike81; 16th April 2020 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:20 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
You clearly have not read what I wrote. According to the CDC website there are around 30,000 deaths this season from flu in the USA. That is about the same number as reported deaths from Coronavirus. Are you saying the CDC is an inaccurate source?
Actually you are quoting an estimate, the 30,000 plus deaths from COVID is a reported number, not an estimate - clearly did not read CDC stuff carefully, and grabbed a number out of where?

Failed to say estimated.... CDC says estimated... now they also publish the reported cases...
Quote:
CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.
Reported deaths from flu in the year 2018 (year, not a flu season), 14,510 - you did not know the 30,000 number you posted was an estimate, not the reported. You have to read CDC carefully, or you present numbers without knowledge.

Deaths from COVID last 7 days over 10,000... total deaths over 30,000 reported. Highest death week for 2018 1,626, not close to COVID, over 10,000 in the last week.

In addition, look at the total estimate of people with the flu, up to 45,000,000 in a season, and so far COVID is limited to 677,570 cases... now what is your estimate for COVID deaths compared to the flu, which appears like trump you have no clue so many die each year from the flu.

Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Did you not see where $1,200 a month is more than a lot of people make and they are thinking of sending $2,000 a month?
SO? This means what?

Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
I do not think they are intentionally trying to mislead us with the numbers. I do believe that they should not be counting some of the deaths as death by coronovirus. This makes it seem worse than it is. Especially when a lot of people think the flu doesn't kill anyone.
Only you and trump and his cult think the flu does not kill (but then they go and say the flu kills more, not thinking about time), it killed my uncle I never met in 1917 flu in Philadelphia where they ignore the flu and had a big parade...

Did you read the CDC guidance for reporting deaths by COVID, the conspiracy theory they inflate the numbers are from people cherry picking CDC guidance to fit their bias and paranoia.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf
CDC guidance does not say inflate the numbers


~600,000 COVID cases, over 30,000 deaths, reported.

From reported flu deaths week 40 in 2013 to this week (339 weeks), average deaths from the flu are 156/week. COVID for the past week is over 1,000 to 2,000 deaths per day, that is over 10,000 per week - and we only have ~600,000 cases, not 45,000,000.

If you wish to use an estimate, based on 12,000 to 61,000 death/yr from flu, it is 230 to 1173 deaths per week not day. Not close to over 10,000/week with COVID -
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:21 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
According to a quick search, there have been about the same number of deaths from the Coronavirus as from the flu this season. Like I said, I think this is somewhat worse than the flu. Let's take extra precautions. It doesn't require shutting down.

Yes, many months I make less than $1200 and so do plenty of other people. I've already got my payment and so have plenty of others because we use direct deposit. They are now talking about sending $2000 for 6 months. That is a good bit more than a lot of people make. Minimum wage is only $7.25 here. Even making $12 an hour, like my girlfriend, you only bring home about $1600 a month. So not much more than $1200 and certainly less than the $2000 they are taking about sending. Our income would increase greatly and so would a lot of people's if they send more checks.

We have lost plenty of rights. The right to go out and work and plenty of other things. People are being fined and arrested for not staying at home or gathering in groups. That's ridiculous.

Let me make clear. I cannot stand Trump and I'm no conspiracy theorist. I just think we are taking it a bit far. I'm ok with some of the stuff we have done, but only if it doesn't carry on for months and months or year after year. I also don't think anyone should be arrested, fined, etc for violating a stay at home order or gathering in a group.
Do you have a source for the highlighted 'cuz KaChing!!!
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:42 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post

Only you and trump and his cult think the flu does not kill (but then they go and say the flu kills more, not thinking about time), it killed my uncle I never met in 1917 flu in Philadelphia where they ignore the flu and had a big parade...
Where have I said that the flu does not kill? In fact if read what I wrote instead of just reacting, you would see that I have had to tell some people that the flu kills. I'm also sure not a Trump supporter.

Last edited by mike81; 16th April 2020 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:43 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Do you have a source for the highlighted 'cuz KaChing!!!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfri.../#1a317f8a1c65

https://www.businessinsider.com/demo...cession-2020-4
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Old 17th April 2020, 10:49 AM   #328
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Who is responsible ?
WHO is responsible.
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Old 19th April 2020, 01:40 AM   #329
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The Daily Social Distancing Show, April 17, 2020:
What Are the Craziest Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories? (8 min.)
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 21st April 2020, 01:26 AM   #330
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Novak Djokovic has been publicising the “5G causes Covid-19” nonsense, as well as being an anti-vaxxer and general believer in woo.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...dangerous-side
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Old 21st April 2020, 06:10 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Novak Djokovic has been publicising the “5G causes Covid-19” nonsense, as well as being an anti-vaxxer and general believer in woo.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...dangerous-side
I hope he gets his butt kicked next time he plays.
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Old 22nd April 2020, 05:54 AM   #332
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Has anyone else noticed how many conspiracy theorists seem to exhibit the sort of loose associativity often shown by schizophrenics?
A close friend of mine suffers quite badly from this.
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Old 22nd April 2020, 07:45 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Has anyone else noticed how many conspiracy theorists seem to exhibit the sort of loose associativity often shown by schizophrenics?
A close friend of mine suffers quite badly from this.
I think that those inclined to CTs quite often fall somewhere on the scale of a paranoid personality disorder, but it could sometimes be schizophrenia. I had an acquaintance who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, and his issues were more intense and personal -- he thought people were reading his mind, and at one point he thought I was Satan. In any case, it's all broken thinking.
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Old 22nd April 2020, 10:56 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
First, I agree that this virus was is probably more dangerous in some ways than flu.
That's good of you, accepting what actual experts have beening saying.


Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
In a way bribing us to just sit back and do or not do whatever they say.
Ahhh, no.

Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
They are inflating the number of deaths by counting unconfirmed cases.
Bollocks. The US death toll is seriously underestimated.

Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
More people in my state have died from the flu this season than from Coronavirus.
Let's see some numbers.

Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Are people really this ignorant or dare I say stupid?
Yes. There are idiots spewing all sorts of rubbish about Covid-19. Startung with Trump.

Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Are we really just going to sit back and take it? How many more rights will we allow to be taken away?
Oh good grief....

Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Sure take some precautions just like you should during flu season, but enough is enough. This has become beyond ridiculous.
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Old 22nd April 2020, 11:20 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Novak Djokovic has been publicising the “5G causes Covid-19” nonsense, as well as being an anti-vaxxer and general believer in woo.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...dangerous-side
Now that the UK has left the EU is it time to reintroduce flogging?

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Old 22nd April 2020, 10:53 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
We both know there is no way for me to prove any of those three things. I'll admit it's just my opinion about what's going on. It's my opinion that we have taken things too far or are on the verge of taking them too far. We are in some ways overreacting. Sorry if it disagrees with your opinion.

They may not be intentionally doing anything wrong. That does not mean that they are doing it right. Their fear of the unknown and something new could be making them make irrational decisions.

Also I do not really think they are technically bribing us. I just compare it to bribing. Again sorry if that is not the perfect word for what is going on.
You know, I get tired of moving targets. What exactly, in your mind, today, would the death toll have to wind up being for you to say "They did not take it too far."

Give us a number that, if reached, would render your current opinion wrong.
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Old 23rd April 2020, 10:37 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by redietz View Post
You know, I get tired of moving targets. What exactly, in your mind, today, would the death toll have to wind up being for you to say "They did not take it too far."

Give us a number that, if reached, would render your current opinion wrong.
I don't know an exact number to give you.

I see numbers as high as 61,000 deaths for flu. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Again, yes take precautions, but it's my opinion that we have taken it or are on the verge of taking it too far. It's that simple. Don't like it? That's fine. Think what you want. I could be wrong, but so could you.

Last edited by mike81; 23rd April 2020 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 23rd April 2020, 10:55 AM   #338
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I think 60k ish is typical for a bad year for flu. That's with no lockdown, and a vaccine against known strains.

So if the lockdown reduces the number of Covid-19 deaths to no more than that, that means it was worth doing, yes? Any more and it didn't go far enough, any less and perhaps it went too far.

Is that what you're saying?
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Old 23rd April 2020, 11:01 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think 60k ish is typical for a bad year for flu. That's with no lockdown, and a vaccine against known strains.

So if the lockdown reduces the number of Covid-19 deaths to no more than that, that means it was worth doing, yes? Any more and it didn't go far enough, any less and perhaps it went too far.

Is that what you're saying?
I've said what I've said. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know what an exact number would be to say that we needed to go as far as we have. I'm just feel like we are over blowing things right now. That is just my opinion though and I could be wrong, but so could anyone else.

This is something unlike anything I've seen before. That could be causing me to not think rationally. Just like people who disagree with me could be letting their "fear" of the unknown cause them to overreact.

Some of you are acting like I've made some ridiculous paranormal claim here.

Last edited by mike81; 23rd April 2020 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 23rd April 2020, 08:42 PM   #340
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Obama gave money to the Wuhan lab

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvXYFQ...ature=youtu.be
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Old 24th April 2020, 06:03 PM   #341
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"Obama" shuts down funding of virus research.

https://www.nature.com/news/us-suspe...search-1.16192
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Old 24th April 2020, 06:19 PM   #342
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Here's a pretty interesting interview. I thought for a second to put it in the thread in the "science" subforum but knew it would end up in AAH or at least cause a whining orgy by the tru believers. Then I took a quiclk look at the man's wikipedia page and found - unsurprised - that it would have been much worse as the usual discrediting work has been done quite sufficiently, which would have caused the repeaters to FUME, I tell you.

Anyway, so i'll drop it here - Shiva Ayyadurai interviewed by the lovely and full bright Jasmin Kosubek, who happens to be the face of the German "Russia Today" (which is a website and a youtube channel, not a TV program). She's from half Brazilian and half "bio-German" descent and speaks no Russian as far as I know, but quite excellent English:

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Old 24th April 2020, 07:47 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
"Obama" shuts down funding of virus research.

https://www.nature.com/news/us-suspe...search-1.16192
Thank you, good to know.
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Old 24th April 2020, 07:48 PM   #344
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Some are claiming that the health care workers protesting the protesters are phony.
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Old 24th April 2020, 09:05 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
I don't know an exact number to give you.

I see numbers as high as 61,000 deaths for flu. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Again, yes take precautions, but it's my opinion that we have taken it or are on the verge of taking it too far. It's that simple. Don't like it? That's fine. Think what you want. I could be wrong, but so could you.
That CDC site also shows the average death rate to be around 35,000. That 61,000 was over 5-month span. COVID-19, as of today, has killed 52,296 Americans in 7 WEEKS. By Monday it will have killed more Americans than were killed in 11 years of the Vietnam War. By May 5, it will have killed more Americans than have died in all of our wars since 1964.

So yeah, it's much worse than the flu.

The flu doesn't have the infection rate of COVID-19. The biggest problem is that it's new to the human population, and that means medical science is learning on the fly about the virus's effects on the human body. We had data from COVID-2, but this one has more teeth.

Either way, without the shut-down the virus kills between 250,000 and 350,000 (or more) during the current time frame. That would have equally damaged the economy as people began to panic.
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Old 24th April 2020, 10:12 PM   #346
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I pretty much agree with this guy. He is basically saying what I have been. There is something between shutting down and not doing a thing. Time to move to phase 2. He also says the mortality rate is actually closer to .5% in NY and 90 something percent have mild symptoms. This has been blown way out of proportion.

Dr. David Katz on Real Time with Bill Maher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lze-rMYLf2E

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Old 25th April 2020, 12:10 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
There is something between shutting down and not doing a thing.
How is that not what is going on right now though? You can go to NAPA and buy spark plugs if you want or buy some flowers at home depot or call a plumber to install your new dishwasher.

Sure, you can't go to the bar or attend a ballgame, but the entire notion of essential businesses and workers is a broad enough brush to ensure that large portions of society are indeed functioning rather normally. To me that says that we're clearly in that middle ground.
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Old 25th April 2020, 12:28 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Deadie View Post
How is that not what is going on right now though? You can go to NAPA and buy spark plugs if you want or buy some flowers at home depot or call a plumber to install your new dishwasher.

Sure, you can't go to the bar or attend a ballgame, but the entire notion of essential businesses and workers is a broad enough brush to ensure that large portions of society are indeed functioning rather normally. To me that says that we're clearly in that middle ground.
I just think we have shut down too many things and people are unnecessarily being put in a state of panic. Schools are closed, stores and restaurants close much earlier, people scared to visit family, millions have lost their jobs, etc. People are being fined for violating stay at home orders. Now I'm sure that hasn't happened all that much, but it's still ridiculous. If someone disagrees, then fine.

Panic Porn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvIQJ-QurQ

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Old 25th April 2020, 02:57 AM   #349
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A very good article explaining the evidence against covid-19 being an artificial or natural virus that escaped from a laboratory.
https://healthfeedback.org/did-the-c...virus-origins/
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Old 25th April 2020, 11:35 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
.stores and restaurants close much earlier
Holy crap, might as well end it all
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Old 25th April 2020, 11:53 AM   #351
Deadie
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
I just think we have shut down too many things and people are unnecessarily being put in a state of panic. Schools are closed, stores and restaurants close much earlier, people scared to visit family, millions have lost their jobs, etc. People are being fined for violating stay at home orders. Now I'm sure that hasn't happened all that much, but it's still ridiculous.
So what would you have done, assuming you had the power? Just how far do you feel we have crossed the line of 'too much'? Precisely where would you have stopped and why? It's one thing to complain about something and quite another to offer an alternative and an explanation. You have not done this.
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Old 25th April 2020, 12:05 PM   #352
mike81
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
Holy crap, might as well end it all
Yes, that is a minor thing. Never said it was one of the more major things. If you want to argue, then ague with someone else or yourself. I know it's horrible someone has a different opinion than you.
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Old 25th April 2020, 12:07 PM   #353
mike81
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Originally Posted by Deadie View Post
So what would you have done, assuming you had the power? Just how far do you feel we have crossed the line of 'too much'? Precisely where would you have stopped and why? It's one thing to complain about something and quite another to offer an alternative and an explanation. You have not done this.
I don't know and never claimed to know exactly. Just offered my opinion. Some of you are turning what I said into a much bigger deal than necessary. How dare me state my opinion in a nice, non-confrontational way. It's not the first time I've been treated like **** on this site. I'll go back to my hole now.
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Old 25th April 2020, 01:17 PM   #354
Bubba
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Ironclad, (yet logic-free) thinking behind ignoring any and all simple facts in that video, highlighted, below.



Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Quote:
by Dr.Sid View Post
I like it, it's very professionally done.
By Falun Gong. To say they have issues with China is colossal understatement.

"that video" link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htMUCYkFO6M

Last edited by Bubba; 25th April 2020 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 25th April 2020, 01:23 PM   #355
Bubba
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Deep faith in tv news:


Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Whatever. The fact is that covid is a global crisis. Your government (and every other) is dancing its ass off trying to avoid more of a disaster.
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Old 25th April 2020, 01:28 PM   #356
eerok
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Deep faith in tv news:
I don't get my reality from 4chan.
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Old 25th April 2020, 01:56 PM   #357
Bubba
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Sorry, a link from FeceBook is all I have for this. Might require a FB account.


In case it gets removed as "unsafe for the FB community", its a guy with CDC documents.

Quote:
This is how they are cooking the books.

Two weeks ago I saw a video of a female doctor in Idaho or Montana. She reported how the CDC has instructed doctors to PRESUME the cause of death is covid19.

She said "In my 30 years of writing death certificates, the instructions have been NEVER presume cause of death." Now they tell us to presume the cause of death is covid 19."

This clip shows the documents she referred to, and more.

They are inflating the numbers. Your TV news is hiding this.

Dont be fooled again.

2 minutes


https://www.facebook.com/Butters42/v...6364275881931/

Last edited by Bubba; 25th April 2020 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 25th April 2020, 01:58 PM   #358
Bubba
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I don't get my reality from 4chan.


Try post 357 for some reality from CDC

Last edited by Bubba; 25th April 2020 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 25th April 2020, 02:17 PM   #359
Bubba
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Here's a pretty interesting interview. I thought for a second to put it in the thread in the "science" subforum but knew it would end up in AAH or at least cause a whining orgy by the tru believers. Then I took a quiclk look at the man's wikipedia page and found - unsurprised - that it would have been much worse as the usual discrediting work has been done quite sufficiently, which would have caused the repeaters to FUME, I tell you.

Anyway, so i'll drop it here - Shiva Ayyadurai interviewed by the lovely and full bright Jasmin Kosubek, who happens to be the face of the German "Russia Today" (which is a website and a youtube channel, not a TV program). She's from half Brazilian and half "bio-German" descent and speaks no Russian as far as I know, but quite excellent English:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


BOOM !
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Old 25th April 2020, 02:40 PM   #360
eerok
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Try post 357 for some reality from CDC
Do you have to fall for every stupid thing you see on social media? Also the guy who runs the CDC is a Trump appointee.
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