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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 6th March 2020, 04:35 PM   #81
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
.....said the person who has been pointedly critical of Sanders.

Honestly, I think it's wise to get this aired out now. It's going to be a factor just as sure as you were Bernie's Socialism and his past were going to be a factor. I'm not going to say Biden can't beat Trump, but I'm not nearly as confident as I would be for Sanders, due to this evidence of early stage dementia for Biden.

Hey, I tried warning you and some others that Sanders isn't the only candidate with electability issues. I seem to recall some refused to really listen to me.
There is no evidence of early stage dementia in Biden. All we get are declarations that it is so, mostly by people who support Sanders. What people claim as evidence of this alleged early dementia are traits that Biden has exhibited for years. As TIME said:

Quote:
Throughout his decades of public service, the former Senator and current Vice President has earned a reputation for often saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.
Sometimes what can be an early sign of dementia is just a personal trait. For example, using the wrong word for something. However, my husband has been known to substitute the wrong word for something his entire life so much so that it's a family joke. He'll say "washing machine" instead of "dishwasher", etc. But he most certainly does not have dementia.

I suggest you look up the signs of early dementia vs. normal aging signs.

https://www.alz.org/national/documen...0warnsigns.pdf
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Old 6th March 2020, 04:36 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Fair enough, but I question your use of the words "Over here on the right", as if those of us on the left lack the insight to be aware of this.
Not all of you on the left, obviously.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:03 PM   #83
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If anyone would notice a cognitive decline in Biden, it would be his family. You know, those closest to him. Those of you who claim Biden is showing signs of dementia, do really think that Dr. Jill Biden, his wife, would support him running for POTUS if she thought he might have dementia? What about his son? Those who work closely with him? You think all of them are supporting a man with signs of dementia as the potential POTUS?
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:07 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If anyone would notice a cognitive decline in Biden, it would be his family. You know, those closest to him. Those of you who claim Biden is showing signs of dementia, do really think that Dr. Jill Biden, his wife, would support him running for POTUS if she thought he might have dementia? What about his son? Those who work closely with him? You think all of them are supporting a man with signs of dementia as the potential POTUS?
If anyone would notice a cognitive decline in Biden, it wouldn't be anyone whose fortune depended on its not being noticed.

It's not like Hunter Biden is going to step forward and say "my dad is too senile to cover my tracks."
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:15 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The "Biden is going senile" crap I expected from the Trump worshippers here, but for some "Progressives" to jump on that band wagon is just astounding.
Because of my particular filter bubble, I hear anti-Biden memes from Bernie Bros before I see any evidence that they've gained traction with Trumpers.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:16 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If anyone would notice a cognitive decline in Biden, it wouldn't be anyone whose fortune depended on its not being noticed.

It's not like Hunter Biden is going to step forward and say "my dad is too senile to cover my tracks."
Dr. Jill's 'fortune' depends on her husband becoming POTUS? His son loves his father so little that he'd let him face the consequences of becoming POTUS when he's losing his mind?

If that's the best excuse you can come up with, it's pitiful. Just pitiful.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:25 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
There is no evidence of early stage dementia in Biden. All we get are declarations that it is so, mostly by people who support Sanders. What people claim as evidence of this alleged early dementia are traits that Biden has exhibited for years. As TIME said:



Sometimes what can be an early sign of dementia is just a personal trait. For example, using the wrong word for something. However, my husband has been known to substitute the wrong word for something his entire life so much so that it's a family joke. He'll say "washing machine" instead of "dishwasher", etc. But he most certainly does not have dementia.

I suggest you look up the signs of early dementia vs. normal aging signs.

https://www.alz.org/national/documen...0warnsigns.pdf


Please don't tell me I don't know the difference between early dementia vs normal aging. My father passed away due to dementia; I know it when I see it. Watching him deteriorate is possibly the worst thing I've ever seen in my life.

On the other hand, please allow me to clarify, as well. Honestly, I can't say for sure whether Biden has early stage dementia or not. I will admit I am suspicious but, unlike with my father, I have no contact with Biden except what I see on TV, so I can't be at all sure. (I feel the same way about Trump, incidentally).

Whatever it is, personal trait, dementia, or just normal aging, it's clearly a detriment to his campaign. I hope he wins, I will vote for him (assuming he's the D nominee), but I'm not going to ignore what I see.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:26 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not all of you on the left, obviously.

And once again, you make it partisan. There are ignorant people in any group of significant size, obviously.

Including the right and the GOP, for damn sure.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:27 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If anyone would notice a cognitive decline in Biden, it would be his family. You know, those closest to him. Those of you who claim Biden is showing signs of dementia, do really think that Dr. Jill Biden, his wife, would support him running for POTUS if she thought he might have dementia? What about his son? Those who work closely with him? You think all of them are supporting a man with signs of dementia as the potential POTUS?

I don't think you're justified in thinking this. Why didn't that happen with Ronald Reagan, for example?
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:42 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Please don't tell me I don't know the difference between early dementia vs normal aging. My father passed away due to dementia; I know it when I see it. Watching him deteriorate is possibly the worst thing I've ever seen in my life.
1) I didn't say you didn't know the difference. I said to look up
2) I'm sorry your father had dementia. So did my husband's father.
3) I suggested you look up the signs of dementia vs normal aging as you
were claiming that there is "evidence of early stage dementia for Biden."
No, there is not.

Quote:
On the other hand, please allow me to clarify, as well. Honestly, I can't say for sure whether Biden has early stage dementia or not. I will admit I am suspicious but, unlike with my father, I have no contact with Biden except what I see on TV, so I can't be at all sure. (I feel the same way about Trump, incidentally).
I have no problem with that. It's the claiming outright that there is evidence he has early stage dementia that I have a problem with.

Quote:
Whatever it is, personal trait, dementia, or just normal aging, it's clearly a detriment to his campaign. I hope he wins, I will vote for him (assuming he's the D nominee), but I'm not going to ignore what I see.
For some it may be. But I think it's more an attack point to be used by Trump supporters, Sanders supporters, and some who backed another candidate.

I don't expect you to ignore what you think you see. We all interpret things according to our own biases, experiences, etc. That does not mean what we think we see is actually what is.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:42 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If anyone would notice a cognitive decline in Biden, it would be his family. You know, those closest to him. Those of you who claim Biden is showing signs of dementia, do really think that Dr. Jill Biden, his wife, would support him running for POTUS if she thought he might have dementia? What about his son? Those who work closely with him? You think all of them are supporting a man with signs of dementia as the potential POTUS?
Please see theprestige's response.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:48 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I'm far less concerned with Biden's gaffes or age than with his history of terrible actions and policy positions. Examples including:

* Opposition to Roe v Wade; support of the Hyde amendment.
* Support of the bill banning LGBT individuals from serving in the military. Support of the DOMA - which prohibited marriage between individuals of the same gender.
* Various bills contributing to the failed and misguided War on Drugs
* Anti-BDS legislation
* Throwing Anita Hill under the bus.

While Biden has since done an about face on many of the above (particularly during and since the Obama presidency), the fact of the matter is that I don't trust his judgment. And I don't trust that he has the necessary spine to stand up to the destructive conservative insanity threatening our nation without caving on critical issues.
I dont worry about his policy stances because I dont believe he has much intention of actually governing.

His one and only job for the remainder of his time on earth is to win the election.

The governing will be done by his "team".

Further, I think he has made that as clear as he could be stating that he is fine with a four year term.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:50 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
I don't think you're justified in thinking this. Why didn't that happen with Ronald Reagan, for example?
I'm quite justified. Reagan was not diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994, five years after he had left office in 1989.

His four WH doctors stated in 1997:

Quote:
…even with the hindsight of Mr. Reagan’s [Alzheimer’s] diagnosis, his four main White House doctors say they never detected any evidence that his forgetfulness was more than just that. His mental competence in office, they said in a series of recent interviews, was never in doubt. Indeed, they pointed out, tests of his mental status did not begin to show evidence of the disease until the summer of 1993, more than four years after he left the White House.

“There was never anything that would raise a question about his ability to function as President,” said Dr. Lawrence C. Mohr, one of Mr. Reagan’s physicians in his second term. “Ronald Reagan’s cognitive function, belief structure, judgment, ability to choose between options, behavior and ability to communicate were totally and completely intact.”
(Snopes)
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:54 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Please see theprestige's response.
I already responded to it above. It was a pitiful excuse then and it remains a pitiful excuse.
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Old 6th March 2020, 05:55 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
1) I didn't say you didn't know the difference. I said to look up
Which implies I don't know the difference. I wouldn't need to look it up if I did.

Quote:
2) I'm sorry your father had dementia. So did my husband's father.
Thanks. I'm sorry your father in law had dementia, too.

Quote:
3) I suggested you look up the signs of dementia vs normal aging as you
were claiming that there is "evidence of early stage dementia for Biden."
No, there is not.
I'm sorry, but in my mind there is evidence. I'm not going to try to convince you; hell, I'm not "convinced" he has dementia, myself. But I do see evidence of it. Others do, too.



Quote:
I have no problem with that. It's the claiming outright that there is evidence he has early stage dementia that I have a problem with.
Fair enough, I can respect that. I will admit that my language was somewhat loose. I will admit that I can't claim my evidence isn't objective, and I respect that that may disqualify it as "evidence" to begin with.



Quote:
For some it may be. But I think it's more an attack point to be used by Trump supporters, Sanders supporters, and some who backed another candidate.

I don't expect you to ignore what you think you see. We all interpret things according to our own biases, experiences, etc. That does not mean what we think we see is actually what is.

I do not intend it as an attack; like I said, I expect to vote for Biden in November. I would prefer voting for Sanders, but like you (I believe), I'm in it to defeat Trump, ultimately. But I'm not as confident as I would like to be with Biden, and this is why.
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Old 6th March 2020, 06:00 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm quite justified. Reagan was not diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1994, five years after he had left office in 1989.

His four WH doctors stated in 1997:


(Snopes)

It's my understanding it's debatable. Reagan's son says he had Alzheimer's while in office:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-president-son

Let me give you my own anecdote: I was suspicious of dementia in my father back in the late 90s. It wasn't obvious until a few to several years later, and he was never diagnosed with dementia. But he had dementia, I assure you; of that I have no doubt (not merely the suspicions I had in the 90s).
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Old 6th March 2020, 06:15 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Which implies I don't know the difference. I wouldn't need to look it up if I did.
When the past conversation (by others before you joined in) contends that Biden's gaffes are 'new' and are signs of dementia and then you state that there is evidence of said dementia in Biden, I could only infer that you were in agreement. That indicates to me that you, like them, were not distinguishing between the signs of Alzheimer's and signs of normal aging.

Quote:
Thanks. I'm sorry your father in law had dementia, too.
It's a horrible disease that I wouldn't wish on anyone. A dear woman I've known for over 50 years died of it just a year ago.

Quote:
I'm sorry, but in my mind there is evidence. I'm not going to try to convince you; hell, I'm not "convinced" he has dementia, myself. But I do see evidence of it. Others do, too.
The only thing that would convince me is for a family member, those who work closely with Biden, or a doctor to express concerns. I have yet to see anyone who would actually KNOW if Biden is exhibiting signs of dementia (and not normal aging) express any concern.

Quote:
Fair enough, I can respect that. I will admit that my language was somewhat loose. I will admit that I can't claim my evidence isn't objective, and I respect that that may disqualify it as "evidence" to begin with.
Recognizing that we have a bias is critical to achieving as much objectivity as possible.


Quote:
I do not intend it as an attack; like I said, I expect to vote for Biden in November. I would prefer voting for Sanders, but like you (I believe), I'm in it to defeat Trump, ultimately. But I'm not as confident as I would like to be with Biden, and this is why.
I don't think you did intend it as an attack. But others certainly are and will continue to do so.
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Old 6th March 2020, 06:26 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
It's my understanding it's debatable. Reagan's son says he had Alzheimer's while in office:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-president-son

Let me give you my own anecdote: I was suspicious of dementia in my father back in the late 90s. It wasn't obvious until a few to several years later, and he was never diagnosed with dementia. But he had dementia, I assure you; of that I have no doubt (not merely the suspicions I had in the 90s).
This is what Ron Reagan had to say about when his father started exhibiting signs:


Quote:
Ron Reagan was frank with Christiane regarding his father's Alzheimer's disease and those claims in his new book, "My Father at 100," about his father's mental health.

"I don't diagnose him with Alzheimer's in office. I simply say that at moments, I saw little flickers of things which -- and I don't even say this in the book, but I'll say it to you -- that, in retrospect, you might wonder whether or not that was, you know, the first glimmers of this condition that would eventually kill him and he would be diagnosed, you know, shortly after leaving office," Ron said.

Ron's siblings were not all on the same page with him. "I think it's unfortunate that the topic of when my father exhibited signs of Alzheimer's was introduced at this time," Davis said.

Michael used even stronger language: "I'm upset that within [Ron's] book he stated that he believed our father had Alzheimer's while he was President of the United States of America," Michael said.

"I was outraged by it. Absolutely outraged, you know, that he would put that in there because -- because again -- and maybe it's because Ron comes from the left. Maybe this is Ron's way of -- of putting together the fact he didn't agree with his father's politics. And so if he can just put in his own mind my dad must have been ill with Alzheimer's, somehow Ron can forgive my father for all the things he did as President of the United States of America because Ron agreed with none of it," Michael told Amanpour.
https://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/fami...ry?id=12786615

It's quite possible that what Ron saw were just signs of aging and, in retrospect, assigned it to Alzheimer's.
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Old 6th March 2020, 07:09 PM   #99
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I just watched Trump's CDC news conference.
I will take a deranged Biden over that any day of the week.
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Old 6th March 2020, 07:49 PM   #100
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It's perfectly acceptable to have a senile or mentally ill man as president provided he's from the right political party.
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Old 6th March 2020, 08:18 PM   #101
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This thread reminds me of the phrase twitter is not the internet. Biden is popular
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Old 6th March 2020, 08:23 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This thread reminds me of the phrase twitter is not the internet. Biden is popular
As Super Tuesday showed.
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Old 6th March 2020, 08:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
It's perfectly acceptable to have a senile or mentally ill man as president provided he's from the right political party.
To de-Cain a Caining...

Assuming for a moment an equal degree of senility, we have on the one hand a malignant narcissist devoid of empathy who is more feared than loved, and on the other hand a loved, empathetic human being who wears his heart on his sleeve. Choosing between these two is a no-brainer, even if both have no brains.
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Old 6th March 2020, 09:00 PM   #104
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What is this American obsession with putting old fogies into the White House?

Do they fear another "Zippergate" more than incompetence?
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Old 6th March 2020, 09:59 PM   #105
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Practically guaranteed failure; the only reason to nominate him is to deliberately throw it for the Republican.

One general reason for that is, of course, the fact that a "centrist" (or actually just plain conservative) Democrat campaign simply never works.

But also, more specific to him individually, "gaffe" is the wrong word for his "gaffes". A gaffe is supposed to be something uncommon that occasionally happens to somebody who usually does better in general. But for him, that kind of stuff is normal. What's rare for him is when he does manage to appear to have his act together for a while.
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Old 6th March 2020, 10:05 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
But also, more specific to him individually, "gaffe" is the wrong word for his "gaffes". A gaffe is supposed to be something uncommon that occasionally happens to somebody who usually does better in general. But for him, that kind of stuff is normal. What's rare for him is when he does manage to appear to have his act together for a while.
Biden does seem much more collected when he's plagiarizing other people's political speeches. He should probably do that more often, but what with Google and all it's not as easy to get away with it these days.
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Old 6th March 2020, 10:07 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
But also, more specific to him individually, "gaffe" is the wrong word for his "gaffes". A gaffe is supposed to be something uncommon that occasionally happens to somebody who usually does better in general. But for him, that kind of stuff is normal. What's rare for him is when he does manage to appear to have his act together for a while.
I thought the election of Donald Trump has abolished the concept of "gaffe" - I mean rather hard to see Biden out-trumping Trump in craziness.
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Old 6th March 2020, 10:44 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
I thought the election of Donald Trump has abolished the concept of "gaffe" - I mean rather hard to see Biden out-trumping Trump in craziness.
It's not surprising on the Republican side. Less-educated and rural people have for years enjoyed wrapping themselves up in the identity of the unsophisticated down-to-earth mentality, not merely accepting mistakes but even highlighting & exaggerating them, treating them as signs of being more open & trustworthy & friendly than those pretentious elitists with their constant need to seem flawless & superior. Comedians like Jeff Foxworthy, Bill Engvall, Larry the Cable Guy, and Ron White (and others dating all the way back to the TV series Hee Haw at least) aren't popular because they make fun of somebody "else" to their audience; they're popular because what they joke about is something their audience can identify with. The Democrats' collective self-image has no equivalent type for him to cheerily fit into. (And even if it did, he might be too far gone even for that, or look to scared when he knows it's happening to him instead of making a joke out of it.)
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Old 6th March 2020, 11:07 PM   #109
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Maybe keep him away from situations where he has to talk too much on taxing subjects. Will keep the number of gaffes and sundowning moments from growing that the Trump campaign will exploit.
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Old 7th March 2020, 12:23 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Biden does seem much more collected when he's plagiarizing other people's political speeches. He should probably do that more often, but what with Google and all it's not as easy to get away with it these days.
Yeah, Melania learned that the hard way.
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Old 7th March 2020, 12:27 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I just watched Trump's CDC news conference.
I will take a deranged Biden over that any day of the week.
To paraphrase JoeMorgue, I'd take the coronavirus over both of them.
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Old 7th March 2020, 12:38 AM   #112
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
To de-Cain a Caining...

Assuming for a moment an equal degree of senility, we have on the one hand a malignant narcissist devoid of empathy who is more feared than loved, and on the other hand a loved, empathetic human being who wears his heart on his sleeve. Choosing between these two is a no-brainer, even if both have no brains.
Another thing to take into consideration is that Biden would listen to his advisers. Unlike Trump, he does not believe he is a 'stable genius' who knows more about everything than anyone else.
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Old 7th March 2020, 01:02 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Another thing to take into consideration is that Biden would listen to his advisers. Unlike Trump, he does not believe he is a 'stable genius' who knows more about everything than anyone else.
So Biden just needs to smile and shake hands while people in the background make all the decisions. Sounds perfect.
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Old 7th March 2020, 01:03 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
To de-Cain a Caining...

Assuming for a moment an equal degree of senility, we have on the one hand a malignant narcissist devoid of empathy who is more feared than loved, and on the other hand a loved, empathetic human being who wears his heart on his sleeve. Choosing between these two is a no-brainer, even if both have no brains.
My comment was directed at both Trump and Biden. Biden may or may not be senile, but Trump is mentally ill (and possibly senile). Someone described the president's pathologies as "towering." So, yeah, in that battle, Biden is undoubtedly better than the current White House occupant. But so what? When McCain was nominated, critics rightfully pointed out that he was old (72 at the time). This country has hundreds of millions of people! Joe Biden. He'll just be a figurehead anyway.


Biden sometimes looks like he's six months away from Billy Burr's impression of an old, old man:

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Old 7th March 2020, 07:13 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yeah, Melania learned that the hard way.
I expect this is supposed to be a "what aboutism" but it doesn't really work as their careers and standing are so different. She married a guy nobody ever thought would hold an elected position. Biden's a career politician who's held office and run for office for what, fifty years now? He should definitely be held to a much higher standard. I'm not sure her English is ever good enough to write a speech. As much as I detest our mad king and have contempt for our foreign queen I think her cribbing a speech is small potatoes in the grander scheme. Plagiarism speaks to character and we already know her character: golddigger. She's not running for office, so what does she matter?

Biden, however, is running for office and he's got a track record of foolishly obvious dishonesty demonstrated in repeated incidents of plagiarism. That's much more damning.
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Old 7th March 2020, 08:09 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
And once again, you make it partisan. There are ignorant people in any group of significant size, obviously.

Including the right and the GOP, for damn sure.
Dudalb expressed surprise that it was happening on the left. I was addressing his surprise specifically, about the left specifically. Dudalb drew a partisan distinction where you and I agree there is none.
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Old 7th March 2020, 08:10 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I already responded to it above. It was a pitiful excuse then and it remains a pitiful excuse.
You're absolutely right. It was a stupid thing to say, and I withdraw it.
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Old 7th March 2020, 08:20 AM   #118
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Lots of focus on "gaffes" and handwaving them away as perhaps even part of his folksy charm.

But there's tales made up out of whole cloth (arrested in S.A. trying to see Mandela) and innumerable statements where he shows his contempt for progressive values.

Dementia would almost seem to be the less concerning reason to explain those, do you still want to back away from that explanation for such cases?
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Old 7th March 2020, 09:09 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
My comment was directed at both Trump and Biden. Biden may or may not be senile, but Trump is mentally ill (and possibly senile). Someone described the president's pathologies as "towering." So, yeah, in that battle, Biden is undoubtedly better than the current White House occupant. But so what? When McCain was nominated, critics rightfully pointed out that he was old (72 at the time). This country has hundreds of millions of people! Joe Biden. He'll just be a figurehead anyway.


Biden sometimes looks like he's six months away from Billy Burr's impression of an old, old man:

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I AGREE
That last statement nails it.
Wether he has actual, clinical, dimentia matters not one whit. The downfall is that he is presenting as someone whose tank is on "E".

He needs to be kept out of the public eye as much as someone running for POTUS can be. A vibrant V.P., selected early, could get out there and draw some of the fire.
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Old 7th March 2020, 09:28 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
One general reason for that is, of course, the fact that a "centrist" (or actually just plain conservative) Democrat campaign simply never works.
1992? 1996? 2008? 2012?
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