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Old 17th April 2020, 08:23 PM   #281
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The problem with China is that they have the same credibility rating as Trump: Zero.
I understand that. But Trump's constant blaming of China should not be allowed to go uncontested.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 17th April 2020, 09:39 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I understand that. But Trump's constant blaming of China should not be allowed to go uncontested.

To be totally fair, he blames everyone who is "not Trump".


Norm
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Old 17th April 2020, 11:06 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
To be totally fair, he blames everyone who is "not Trump".


Norm
Preacher, meet choir.

I'm well aware of that. His list is absurd:
Democrats
WHO
China
Obama
The states
The Fake News
I'm sure I'm missing someone.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 17th April 2020, 11:42 PM   #284
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I understand that. But Trump's constant blaming of China should not be allowed to go uncontested.
I absolutely agree. But I don't trust either of them to tell the truth.
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Old 18th April 2020, 01:50 AM   #285
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The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

Interesting point to consider, if the USA “reopens” with what the rest of the world considers to be inadequate safeguards then flights to and from the USA aren’t going to start. Businesses outside the USA will chose to work with countries that are considered to be “safer”.

This could result in an even more isolationist USA than since before WW2.
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Old 18th April 2020, 01:58 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Interesting point to consider, if the USA “reopens” with what the rest of the world considers to be inadequate safeguards then flights to and from the USA aren’t going to start. Businesses outside the USA will chose to work with countries that are considered to be “safer”.

This could result in an even more isolationist USA than since before WW2.
And a death toll higher than all the rest of the world combined.
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Old 18th April 2020, 02:01 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Preacher, meet choir.

I'm well aware of that. His list is absurd:
Democrats
WHO
China
Obama
The states
The Fake News
I'm sure I'm missing someone.
The deep state
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Old 18th April 2020, 02:20 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
In my darkest thoughts I am starting to wonder if it wouldn't be a net positive for the US (and the rest of the world) if you guys just got on with killing one another at long last, provided of course, you finish the job this time.
Yes, that's my plan...
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Old 18th April 2020, 02:29 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Interesting point to consider, if the USA “reopens” with what the rest of the world considers to be inadequate safeguards then flights to and from the USA aren’t going to start. Businesses outside the USA will chose to work with countries that are considered to be “safer”.

This could result in an even more isolationist USA than since before WW2.
And it's working brilliantly!
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Old 18th April 2020, 03:28 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Of course I understand what "flattening the curve" means.
You obviously don't, since you were arguing that doing so doesn't save lives but instead is just "providing a brief extension".

You're wrong. It is saving lives. That's the point.

Quote:
Reasonable people could look at any given restriction, and weigh the costs and benefits. You can't say, "Whatever saves lives (i.e. flattens the curve) has to be done." We could do more things, but people would judge that they aren't worth it.
Well, she obviously values human life more than you and the people you're claiming to speak for do.
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Old 18th April 2020, 03:41 AM   #291
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In no other country has the question of when and how to raise the restrictions on movement and work been turned into the political football it has in the USA, and it largely seems to be down to Trump, who has insistently turned it into another excuse to go to war with Democratic politicians. All while encouraging the kind of nutters who turn up to a protest toting automatic weapons.
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Old 18th April 2020, 05:30 AM   #292
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Trump politicizes everything. It trends well on social media and plays well with his base. You see it here, people who support him have no problem with this. They just double down.
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Old 18th April 2020, 05:43 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Preacher, meet choir.

I'm well aware of that. His list is absurd:
Democrats
WHO
China
Obama
The states
The Fake News
I'm sure I'm missing someone.
Skeptic Ginger?
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Old 18th April 2020, 06:02 AM   #294
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Thursday Trump said he supported governors deciding on how to battle the pandemic in their states. Trump said the governors wanted to reopen their economies but they want "to do it safely." That 'support' lasted less than twenty-four hours. On Thursday in Minnesota the governor announced he was extending the shutdown to May 4th and there were immediate protests -- first on Facebook and then a demonstration at the governor's residence -- by a right wing group that calls itself Liberate Minnesota.

At midday Friday Trump tweeted "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!"
Quote:
Trump told reporters that he felt "very comfortable" with his tweet, adding that "these are people expressing their views" and "they seem to be very responsible people to me, you know, they’ve been treated a little bit rough.” NBC News
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File Type: jpg Demand freedom to catch the virus.jpg (159.3 KB, 13 views)
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Old 18th April 2020, 06:21 AM   #295
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Trump encouraging the whack job protesters is a whole new level of demented, sociopathic fugue state. Deep fugue.

They're not going to let socialists like SARS-cov-2 ruin America, which just recently had been made great again.
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Last edited by varwoche; 18th April 2020 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 18th April 2020, 06:58 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Trump encouraging the whack job protesters is a whole new level of demented, sociopathic fugue state. Deep fugue.

They're not going to let socialists like SARS-cov-2 ruin America, which just recently had been made great again.

But the protesters are saying nice things about Trump, therefore they are by definition good.

And sadly I am not joking.
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Old 18th April 2020, 07:10 AM   #297
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This is from a regional new website.
Quote:
The president's two-word tweet seemed to throw support behind protesters who demonstrated outside the governor's residence in St. Paul on Friday urging state officials to reopen the state's economy.

Minnesota on Friday posted its highest one-day increase in confirmed COVID-19 cases and deaths to date, according to state health officials. Link
Once again, like my Boss used to say, "You can't make this stuff up."
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Old 18th April 2020, 07:15 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
This is from a regional new website.

Once again, like my Boss used to say, "You can't make this stuff up."
The thing is, many people don't "get" something until it affects them directly. Right now their jobs have been lost or are in peril (which is of course the fault of the state and not their employer) but none of their loved ones have perished from Coronavirus.

Of course if tragedy does befall them and they do lose one or more loved ones then it's still the state's fault for failing to take adequate precautions against Coronavirus.
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Old 18th April 2020, 07:29 AM   #299
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I wonder what self-styled skeptics think when Big Daddy (if only they could have the full teabag experience, mmmm!) encourages the whack jobs to act contrary to the advice of Big Daddy.
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Old 18th April 2020, 07:36 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Thursday Trump said he supported governors deciding on how to battle the pandemic in their states. Trump said the governors wanted to reopen their economies but they want "to do it safely." That 'support' lasted less than twenty-four hours. On Thursday in Minnesota the governor announced he was extending the shutdown to May 4th and there were immediate protests -- first on Facebook and then a demonstration at the governor's residence -- by a right wing group that calls itself Liberate Minnesota.

At midday Friday Trump tweeted "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!"
What those people REALLY need is a hug. A BIG GROUP HUG!!

While chanting something, loudly. Somethings with lots of "fffff" and "ssss" sounds and any other sounds that might sometimes prompt people to say "Say it, don't spit it".

Then they'll all feel better. And if they get sick, they'll just blame it on the libs anyway.
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Old 18th April 2020, 07:41 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Trump politicizes everything. It trends well on social media and plays well with his base. You see it here, people who support him have no problem with this. They just double down.
Still, there is a certain amount of soft support there outside the large fanatic core - I think the crazies and their direct sympathizers amount to ca 35% of the (traditionally already very shrunken) active electorate. The kind of people who find rioting against lawful authorities in the midst of a national crisis rather distasteful. They might not mostly vote for Democrats but they might give this election a pass.
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Old 18th April 2020, 08:09 AM   #302
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How can the Minnesota governor extend the lockdown against Trump's wishes? Trump has total authority.

Or so I've heard.
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Old 18th April 2020, 08:12 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Still, there is a certain amount of soft support there outside the large fanatic core - I think the crazies and their direct sympathizers amount to ca 35% of the (traditionally already very shrunken) active electorate. The kind of people who find rioting against lawful authorities in the midst of a national crisis rather distasteful. They might not mostly vote for Democrats but they might give this election a pass.
In most cases where people are demonstrating in the streets, the organizers are far more extreme in their political views than the people who attend the protest, and the people who attend the protest are generally more extreme than the people who sympathize with the cause of the protest. This isn't limited to just this particular issue. Abby Hoffman and Jerry Ruben were generally more extreme than the people marching in Chicago in 1968, and a lot more extreme than the average person who opposed the war in Vietnam.

I look at the protesters from Michigan and I mostly say, "Those people are nuts." And from what I've read about the organizers, they are extreme right wingers. However, you don't have to be an extreme right winger to think that the restrictions are too severe.

I think Governor Whitmer missed a chance to be Vice-President with her recent announcement. She was a definite rising star because she acted so forcefully so early. I know I praised her actions, especially when contrasted with Trump. However, she went so far in the second round of restrictions that it became controversial. Of course, among some people, her first round of executive orders was controversial, but generally people said it had to be done. The second round, though, went so far that there was an awful lot of pushback.

How people react will depend a lot on how it's enforced, and how long it goes on. I haven't seen news stories about exactly who is getting ticketed.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 18th April 2020 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 18th April 2020, 08:47 AM   #304
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I think Gov. Cuomo's daily briefings have been pretty interesting and straightforward, but I can't get past the impression that he makes the words "...tests..." and "...masks..." (always with a pause on either side) sound like epithets.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:34 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The thing is, many people don't "get" something until it affects them directly...
The problem is, there are apparently a lot of asymptomatic people who are infected with coronavirus and they're quite contagious. The people demonstrating Friday at the various state houses, if there were asymptomatic people among them, may 'get' it very soon.

In which case I expect they'll immediately blame Nancy Pelosi. Or Joe Biden.
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Old 18th April 2020, 09:52 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think Governor Whitmer missed a chance to be Vice-President with her recent announcement. She was a definite rising star because she acted so forcefully so early. I know I praised her actions, especially when contrasted with Trump. However, she went so far in the second round of restrictions that it became controversial. Of course, among some people, her first round of executive orders was controversial, but generally people said it had to be done. The second round, though, went so far that there was an awful lot of pushback.
Well, again I find your continuous multiple concerns about various Democrats rather irrelevant. There surely are molehills of error and misjudgment to go around, but they kind of pale next to the mountain of sheer incompetence and nastiness next to them.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:04 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think Governor Whitmer missed a chance to be Vice-President with her recent announcement. She was a definite rising star because she acted so forcefully so early. I know I praised her actions, especially when contrasted with Trump. However, she went so far in the second round of restrictions that it became controversial. Of course, among some people, her first round of executive orders was controversial, but generally people said it had to be done. The second round, though, went so far that there was an awful lot of pushback.
If anything, it seems you have that backwards.

After the first set of restrictions 69% of Michigan residents approved of what she was doing.

After the second set of restrictions, 71% did.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:12 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If anything, it seems you have that backwards.

After the first set of restrictions 69% of Michigan residents approved of what she was doing.

After the second set of restrictions, 71% did.
And not to mention... Who cares if there’s pushback?

The only question that matters is: Is this the right thing to do under the circumstances?

If any of our resident Overreach Hand-Wringers care to make an argument that it’s not, I’d be happy to look at the scientific data you have to support your contention.
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Old 18th April 2020, 11:38 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Thursday Trump said he supported governors deciding on how to battle the pandemic in their states. Trump said the governors wanted to reopen their economies but they want "to do it safely." That 'support' lasted less than twenty-four hours. On Thursday in Minnesota the governor announced he was extending the shutdown to May 4th and there were immediate protests -- first on Facebook and then a demonstration at the governor's residence -- by a right wing group that calls itself Liberate Minnesota.

At midday Friday Trump tweeted "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!"
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
This is from a regional new website.

Once again, like my Boss used to say, "You can't make this stuff up."
The uber-patriotism and flag waving obsession of the right has always fascinated me. I find it rather embarrassing as it's a manifestation of feelings of superiority and nationalism. Think of any other countries that display (literally) this flag waving/flying obsession outside of special days or events. I think of China, N. Korea and, historically, Nazi Germany and fascist Italy.
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Old 18th April 2020, 12:25 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
In no other country has the question of when and how to raise the restrictions on movement and work been turned into the political football it has in the USA, and it largely seems to be down to Trump, who has insistently turned it into another excuse to go to war with Democratic politicians. All while encouraging the kind of nutters who turn up to a protest toting automatic weapons.
You might need to broaden your horizons. Look further south.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 18th April 2020, 01:05 PM   #311
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Wrong subforum.
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Old 18th April 2020, 01:36 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ks-evangelists


People will do this. And it this really just one rule?
Of course they will. Just like they sent in money so televangelist Jesse Duplantis could buy a new private jet that he said God told him he needed. After all, commercial jets were 'full of demons".

Quote:
Specifically, God told Duplantis he needs a Dassault Falcon 7X, a three-engine private jet capable of carrying 12 to 16 passengers at speeds up to 700 miles per hour. The Falcon 7X, which would be the fourth plane owned by Jesse Duplantis Ministries, has a range of almost 6,000 miles and costs about $54 million new, according to SherpaReport (although used ones are listed online for as little as $20 million).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...jet/653202002/
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Old 18th April 2020, 02:04 PM   #313
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Florida has reopened some beaches where they are supposed to be social distancing. They aren't. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tells ya.
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Old 18th April 2020, 02:14 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Florida has reopened some beaches where they are supposed to be social distancing. They aren't. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tells ya.
The economy is more important than human lives.
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Old 18th April 2020, 02:22 PM   #315
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A: Mexico and Canada
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Old 18th April 2020, 02:42 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
The economy is more important than human lives.

Each locality needs to decide what is safe. Orange County (Calif.) closed parking lots, but not the beach. You can still surf and walk around, just not on the piers. You can still get food, just not indoors. The outside is the best place to be! Just keep some distance. Sunshine is a great disinfectant! Our community spread (as reported) is very low. Hospitals are half empty.

Majority of our new cases are people who are stuck indoors, like nursing homes and the jails. So sad. The higher risk populations and elderly in those places really need some special attention, much more than the population at large. Skilled nurses who are not provided PPE are just adding to the numbers is a vastly skewed way. Some of them have protested by staying home!

California has been terrible (really really awful) about anticipating where cases will pop up. Testing is still inadequate, and has been from the start. Even so, the numbers are MUCH better than most places.
We are simply very lucky for our weather, suburban sprawl and car culture.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 18th April 2020 at 02:45 PM. Reason: added that it is Oc calif not OC Fla.
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Old 18th April 2020, 03:05 PM   #317
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Each locality needs to decide what is safe. Orange County (Calif.) closed parking lots, but not the beach. You can still surf and walk around, just not on the piers. You can still get food, just not indoors. The outside is the best place to be! Just keep some distance. Sunshine is a great disinfectant! Our community spread (as reported) is very low. Hospitals are half empty.

Majority of our new cases are people who are stuck indoors, like nursing homes and the jails. So sad. The higher risk populations and elderly in those places really need some special attention, much more than the population at large. Skilled nurses who are not provided PPE are just adding to the numbers is a vastly skewed way. Some of them have protested by staying home!

California has been terrible (really really awful) about anticipating where cases will pop up. Testing is still inadequate, and has been from the start. Even so, the numbers are MUCH better than most places.
We are simply very lucky for our weather, suburban sprawl and car culture.
Utter tripe.

Picture this for a second: Five families, each with two parents and two kids (average age 10), are on a football field. It's pretty easy for those five families to stay 6 feet away from each other since they've got 100 x 53 yards to work with. However, families at the beach aren't static. Add a Frisbee or ball to the mix and now at the very least the kids are moving and getting closer to the other families. Maybe a Frisbee lands next to someone who instinctively picks it up and throws it back. They just sneezed and rubbed their nose, by the way.

Beaches are not conducive to social distancing unless access is limited (set number of people allowed on a particular stretch of beach) and there's someone (multiple people, more likely) there to monitor things and enforce safe distances.

This isn't a ******* vacation. Stay home.
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Old 18th April 2020, 03:30 PM   #318
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Social distancing is communism.
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Old 18th April 2020, 03:44 PM   #319
Sherkeu
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Utter tripe.

Picture this for a second: Five families, each with two parents and two kids (average age 10), are on a football field. It's pretty easy for those five families to stay 6 feet away from each other since they've got 100 x 53 yards to work with. However, families at the beach aren't static. Add a Frisbee or ball to the mix and now at the very least the kids are moving and getting closer to the other families. Maybe a Frisbee lands next to someone who instinctively picks it up and throws it back. They just sneezed and rubbed their nose, by the way.

Beaches are not conducive to social distancing unless access is limited (set number of people allowed on a particular stretch of beach) and there's someone (multiple people, more likely) there to monitor things and enforce safe distances.

This isn't a ******* vacation. Stay home.
Why don't you educate me about where the new cases in Orange County are coming from then? 28 deaths in a county of 3.2 million, with a gdp of 310 billion. First case of Covid was back on Jan 25.

You want to keep the outdoors closed? Really? Maybe where you live. Here, it doesnt seem to spread very well outside. Just look at the numbers of residents, travelers, tourists, large venues (Disneyland is just one of many!), students, etc... Still very low cases.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 18th April 2020 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 18th April 2020, 04:09 PM   #320
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Why don't you educate me about where the new cases in Orange County are coming from then? 28 deaths in a county of 3.2 million, with a gdp of 310 billion. First case of Covid was back on Jan 25.

You want to keep the outdoors closed? Really? Maybe where you live. Here, it doesnt seem to spread very well outside. Just look at the numbers of residents, travelers, tourists, large venues (Disneyland is just one of many!), students, etc... Still very low cases.
Maybe I've missed something. Maybe you've set walls around Orange County such that no carriers can come to where you live. Maybe the sun shines brighter on Orange County than Los Angeles County (or all of Florida - "the sunshine state"), so much so that the virus can't survive even a microsecond in the open air. Maybe Mickey Mouse has endowed Orange County with magical protection from viruses.

Maybe the OC will end up with fewer cases per capita than other areas. That would be nice for you but is it really a good reason to take stupid, unnecessary risks?

ETA: And it's not a matter of "closing the outdoors." It's a matter of closing places where people tend to gather in numbers.

Last edited by Babbylonian; 18th April 2020 at 04:11 PM.
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