ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , Michael Cohen , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 28th February 2019, 11:59 AM   #481
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Ok, I guess the first question is, how exactly would those congressmen actually know when Cohen was lying?


Did ya read the letter???? It lays out chapter and verse how exactly Cohen lied and how they know it.

By the way, classic ad hominem fallacy attack on the authors of the letter, kisses fingers in the French manner.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:02 PM   #482
Tero
Graduate Poster
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 1,532
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, you did not read the information, or you did not understand it?

I will assume it is the later. You see Dr. Keith, the first thing you have to understand is that the deep state can convict people for lying to the government about things that are totally legal.

Let me give you a super simple example. Say Donald trump got his car fixed on saturday, but Michael Cohen said he got it fixed on friday. the deep state can and will prosecute targets of ratsistance for "lying" about thing that are totally legal in order to co-opt them into doing their sleazy business.

That is the case here, Cohen admitted lying about Trump doing absolutely legal things.

That is why we call them process crimes, the deep state had nothing on Trump so they ginned up some fake charges against Cohen to go along with the real actual crimes Cohen and his wife committed and got him to roll over like a rat.

I hope this helps
Yeah we have
-conspiracy with wikileaks etc
-major tax evasion
-hush money
-grabbing pussy
-big loans from Russia
-avoiding property tax on golf courses

A fine president. He’ll get racketeering charges at the least. They will try to hide Mueller report.
Tero is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:09 PM   #483
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Jim Jordan is a douchebag who doesn't know how to dress himself. Who gives a rat's ass what he thinks.
Folks, I will save you a click, that is a curiously long article about who Jim Jordan does not usually wear a suit coat.

I say this without hyperbole: that is the dumbest most specious and frivolous article on the entire internet. It makes time cube look like collected works of Samuel Pepys in comparison.

What you've just linked is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent link was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having been exposed to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:10 PM   #484
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
But anyway, are you feeling all right?

You did not answer that question.
passing well.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:11 PM   #485
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 21,211
Nm
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:19 PM   #486
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 12,705
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
passing well.
OK then.
__________________
On 22 JUL 2016, Candidate Donald Trump in his acceptance speech: "There can be no prosperity without law and order."
On 05 FEB 2019, President Donald Trump said in his Sate of the Union Address: "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation."
On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:24 PM   #487
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Damn fine article from a very experienced attorney:

Quote:
To any experienced lawyer, it’s obvious that the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York included those “campaign finance violations” against Cohen in his plea agreement simply to aid the Democrats and Mueller in smearing President Trump. The “campaign finance” charges are not valid, and nothing about Cohen’s testimony today changes that analysis.
https://townhall.com/columnists/sidn...-ways-n2542363

Sure it is not a Congressman is not wearing a suit jacket, but there are times when TBD feels y'all are ready for some substance.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:25 PM   #488
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,543
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


Did ya read the letter???? It lays out chapter and verse how exactly Cohen lied and how they know it.

By the way, classic ad hominem fallacy attack on the authors of the letter, kisses fingers in the French manner.
Lol, you still don't understand that one, huh. Asking how these guys know Cohen is lying is a reasonable question, not an argument, so it can't be fallacious. Anyway, as lame as this letter is, I notice that none of these alleged lies has anything to do with his testimony about Trump's lying and cheating, so who cares who created that Twitter account. One thing you need to wrap your head around, asap, is that the case against Trump doesn't depend on Cohen's honesty, so you're wasting energy with the attack. The charges that will stick will be the ones that can be proved, and there are plenty.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:27 PM   #489
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,522
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I found a Trump tweet from less than a year ago that has aged beautifully.
Originally Posted by Donald Trump
The New York Times and a third rate reporter named Maggie Haberman, known as a Crooked H flunkie who I don’t speak to and have nothing to do with, are going out of their way to destroy Michael Cohen and his relationship with me in the hope that he will “flip.” They use....

....non-existent “sources” and a drunk/drugged up loser who hates Michael, a fine person with a wonderful family. Michael is a businessman for his own account/lawyer who I have always liked & respected. Most people will flip if the Government lets them out of trouble, even if....

....it means lying or making up stories. Sorry, I don’t see Michael doing that despite the horrible Witch Hunt and the dishonest media!

Nobody else in this thread has defended Cohen as much as Trump and Big Dog have.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wow. Trump totally called it. Amazing

Lots of people got burned by cohen. Should have known that he had sins in his and his wifes past that would allow the deep state to turn him into a sniveling rat and hero of the ratsistance
Yeah right - Trump totally called it!
Trump: "Michael, a fine person with a wonderful family"
TBD: "he had sins in his and his wifes past"

Trump: "I don’t see Michael doing that"
TBD: "turn him into a sniveling rat"

How delightful! It gets better:

Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Didya read the whole tweet chain there sparky?

Go ahead, we'll wait.

Teehee
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You mean where trump called the fact that your new hero would flip and lie? Yeah. I saw that

Trump nailed it again. Very astute
Again:

Trump: "I don’t see Michael doing that"
TBD: "trump called the fact that your new hero would flip and lie"

Just give the Dawg a shovel!
Here, someone hands TBD a shovel:

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Originally Posted by TBD
You mean where trump called the fact that your new hero would flip and lie? Yeah. I saw that
Originally Posted by Trump
I don’t see Michael doing that
You should pay more attention. Admit that you got it wrong.
Dig dig dig...
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:31 PM   #490
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Avid readers of this thread will note my expert summary of many of the facts in this attached document. This is a criminal referral to the DoJ outlining many of Cohen's montrous lies and outright whoppers he told yesterday:

NEW: @Jim_Jordan & @RepMarkMeadows have sent a letter to DOJ referring Michael Cohen "for perjury and knowingly making false statements before the Committee at yesterday's hearing."

The freshest and finest content on the forum, courtesy of The Big Dog.
The hilarious part about this is, none of the semantic quibbles in this letter calls into question any statements Cohen made about Donald Trump, which testimony was the purpose of yesterday's hearing.

Meadows and Jordan appear to just be angry that they were made to so thoroughly look the fool at the hearing. Meadows particularly is also definitely mad that his attempting to use a black employee as a token to "prove" that Trump isn't racist was called out as itself racist.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:32 PM   #491
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Ok, I guess the first question is, how exactly would those congressmen actually know when Cohen was lying? After all, the republicans spent so much time grandstanding and monologuing that I'm surprised they even paid attention to any of Cohen's testimony.

Secondly, why exactly do they think that's useful or relevant?

Do they honestly think nobody at the DOJ involved with the case was watching the hearings? That they wouldn't be smart enough to recognize if/when Cohen was lying?

So you have a claim by 2 republican congress-critters, one of whom has a shady past regarding sexual allegations, the other may have lied about his academic credentials, making demands that the DOJ should act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jo..._abuse_scandal

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/...ee/2872646002/
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Lol, you still don't understand that one, huh. Asking how these guys know Cohen is lying is a reasonable question, not an argument, so it can't be fallacious. Anyway, as lame as this letter is, I notice that none of these alleged lies has anything to do with his testimony about Trump's lying and cheating, so who cares who created that Twitter account. One thing you need to wrap your head around, asap, is that the case against Trump doesn't depend on Cohen's honesty, so you're wasting energy with the attack. The charges that will stick will be the ones that can be proved, and there are plenty.
I highlighted the fallacious statement for you.

"so who cares who created that Twitter account." If no one cared, why did your hero lie about that too?

protip: there is not a case against trump, and if there were, the fact that this Hillary level lying rat ****** is the witness for the prosecution?

Yeah, gonna put that right down as: Four More Years of MAGA.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:32 PM   #492
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 11,936
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Gerry Connolly did a good job drilling down on some needed information as well. On the whole, Popehat's analysis was spot on. I have a feeling today's closed door session with the house intelligence committee will be more productive since there won't be a need to perform for an audience.
House Republicans needed a trial lawyer—or even a moderately bright junior-high mock-trial participant—to tell them how to do anything. Cross-examination is hard. It’s not just barking at the witness. It takes meticulous planning and patience. Republicans could have marshaled Cohen’s many sins of the past to undermine his statements today. Instead, they returned repeatedly to lies and misdeeds he’s already admitted, wallowed in silly trivialities such as the “Women for Cohen” Twitter account, and yelled. The effect was to make an unsympathetic man modestly more sympathetic. Republicans committed the classic cross-examination blunder: They gave the witness the opportunity to further explain his harmful direct testimony. They provided Cohen with one slow pitch up the middle after another, letting him repeat the cooperating witness’s go-to explanation like a mantra: I did these bad things so often and so long because that’s what it took to work for your guy. I have seldom seen a cross-examination go worse.

If the hearing’s participants needed trial lawyers, its absent subject needs them even more. Whether the danger is looming impeachment hearings or the special counsel’s investigation, the president of the United States is in the soup.



Maybe they needed to pull a "Blasey-Ford Hearing" trick, and get a prosecutor to ask their questions for them, or perhaps TBD should have offered them his years of *snicker* "experience" as a wannabe web-lawyer and volunteer his services. After all he could not possibly have done a worse job than they did. He's got, you know "pro tips" "n" all
__________________
#THEYAREUS
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:39 PM   #493
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,753
Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Yeah we have
-conspiracy with wikileaks etc
-major tax evasion
-hush money
-grabbing pussy
-big loans from Russia
-avoiding property tax on golf courses

A fine president. He’ll get racketeering charges at the least. They will try to hide Mueller report.
But we knew almost all of that before he was elected, hell he argues he is absoutely the worst person to run a golf course, see how much the value of his golf course in Ossining tanked according to him after he bought it.

"According to Fried, the Trump Organization filed a tax grievance on Tuesday with the town assessor’s office in Ossining, valuing the course at $7.5 million, or half of the $15.1 million the town calculates should be the tax basis for the course. This is the same course, spread over 143 acres in Westchester County, that presidential candidate Donald Trump listed on his publicly-filed financial disclosure report as being worth $50 million in 2016.

The move is consistent with repeated efforts by the Trump Organization to challenge the valuation of the property in an effort to win massive tax reductions. In 2016, Trump’s lawyer initially claimed in a grievance the property was worth only $1.35 million, even though the tax assessors rated it at $15 million.

Fried said that in past years, the Trump Organization has paid their taxes -- which are still being litigated for 2015 and 2016 in local courts -- with checks stamped: “Paid Under Protest.”

Trump bought the property at a foreclosure sale for $8 million and reportedly spent $45 million to build the 18-hole golf course and luxury housing development. In 2008, town officials say, the golf club received a reduction in its assessment from $38 million to $16 million.”"

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=48179222

Trump he has the skill to take a foreclosed property and destroy its value even further.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:40 PM   #494
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The hilarious part about this is, none of the semantic quibbles in this letter calls into question any statements Cohen made about Donald Trump, which testimony was the purpose of yesterday's hearing.
.
falls off chair...

folks, I am going to do y'all a solid and link this again, because it seems the the big Dog is the only one who bothered to read it, yet that does not stop our correspondents from flat out lying about it.

https://republicans-oversight.house....J-Referral.pdf

Points 2, 5 and 6 directly relates to Cohen's lies about the President.

I got to tell you though, the argument that a person convicted of lying to Congress caught lying to Congress again is "semantic quibbles" or 'who cares" is shocking but not really surprising I guess, because he might be a sniveling rat faced liar, but he is the Democrat party's' sniveling rat faced liar, so 'who cares' if he lied.

Hoo boy
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:41 PM   #495
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,245
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
The past three years have often felt like a vivid dream nightmare. But now that I know there are "literal monsters" walking about, the stakes got a whole lot higher. I'm going to to enlist some superheros, literally possessing super-human powers. I'll get to that right after attending services for the dear, departed word literally.
Don't forget that Patrick Leahy, Senator from Vermont and highest ranking Democratic member of the Judiciary committee is a huge Batman fan;he wrote the introduction when DC reprinted the first year of Batman from 1939 and has had cameos in all the Batman films since "Batman Begins". Best was in "Dark Knight" where he is the man at the party who tells off the Joker. Best cameo by a politician ever.
And although I did not overall care for the film, he had a cameo as a Senator in "Batman Vs Superman" and was the advisor for the film on senate committee procedure for the scenes of the Senate hearing.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:42 PM   #496
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,245
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I hate to be so superficial, but her presentation was weak. When you stumble badly on your own speech in the same place twice, that's a problem indicative of trying too hard, failing to use simple, concise language.
I long for the time when you had to be decent public speaker to have any degree of success in politics.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:43 PM   #497
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,792
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
falls off chair...
Laughter. Curtains. Applause.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:46 PM   #498
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post

Maybe they needed to pull a "Blasey-Ford Hearing" trick, and get a prosecutor to ask their questions for them, or perhaps TBD should have offered them his years of *snicker* "experience" as a wannabe web-lawyer and volunteer his services. After all he could not possibly have done a worse job than they did. He's got, you know "pro tips" "n" all
Interestingly, the Big Dog said that yesterday... America could have used TBD yesterday.

Hopefully they picked up some of my thoughts from twitter or my web site
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:55 PM   #499
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,185
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The hilarious part about this is, none of the semantic quibbles in this letter calls into question any statements Cohen made about Donald Trump, which testimony was the purpose of yesterday's hearing.

Meadows and Jordan appear to just be angry that they were made to so thoroughly look the fool at the hearing. Meadows particularly is also definitely mad that his attempting to use a black employee as a token to "prove" that Trump isn't racist was called out as itself racist.
In his whining about being id'd as a racist the racist Meadows several times claimed Cummings as a close personal friend. I seriously wonder if that is true, and if so, why Cummings would be friends with a racist.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:56 PM   #500
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,185
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Laughter. Curtains. Applause more laughter.
You got the last word wrong
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:09 PM   #501
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,355
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, you did not read the information, or you did not understand it?

I will assume it is the later.
Bad assumption. But, I can see you enjoyed making it.

Quote:
That is the case here, Cohen admitted lying about Trump doing absolutely legal things.
Maybe you could expand on that:
  1. What totally legal thing was Trump doing that Cohen thought he should lie about?
  2. Why did Cohen lie about those things?
  3. Who benefited most from Cohen's lies to Congress?
  4. When Cohen lied about Trump who was the first person Trump called to report that Cohen was lying?
    (Did he tell the FBI first or did he call a congressman to let him know? Maybe it was Gaetz.)
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:11 PM   #502
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 12,705
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Interestingly, the Big Dog said that yesterday... America could have used TBD yesterday.

Hopefully they picked up some of my thoughts from twitter or my web site
'k

__________________
On 22 JUL 2016, Candidate Donald Trump in his acceptance speech: "There can be no prosperity without law and order."
On 05 FEB 2019, President Donald Trump said in his Sate of the Union Address: "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation."
On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:17 PM   #503
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,792
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Interestingly, the Big Dog said that yesterday... America could have used TBD yesterday.
Still narrating your own story, then?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:17 PM   #504
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,185
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Bad assumption. But, I can see you enjoyed making it.



Maybe you could expand on that:
  1. What totally legal thing was Trump doing that Cohen thought he should lie about?
  2. Why did Cohen lie about those things?
  3. Who benefited most from Cohen's lies to Congress?
  4. When Cohen lied about Trump who was the first person Trump called to report that Cohen was lying?
    (Did he tell the FBI first or did he call a congressman to let him know? Maybe it was Gaetz.)
Wow!! You appear to be asking for......... evidence!? From that source!?



Dreamer.


That dog is less capable of providing evidence than my dog.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:17 PM   #505
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Bad assumption. But, I can see you enjoyed making it.

Maybe you could expand on that:
  1. What totally legal thing was Trump doing that Cohen thought he should lie about?
  2. Why did Cohen lie about those things?
  3. Who benefited most from Cohen's lies to Congress?
  4. When Cohen lied about Trump who was the first person Trump called to report that Cohen was lying?
    (Did he tell the FBI first or did he call a congressman to let him know? Maybe it was Gaetz.)
Sure thing my man! I like the enthusiasm.

Lets start with the first lie in the "information" "The Moscow Project Ended in January of 2016 and was not discussed extensively with others in the Company."

First of all, let me make it clear that I am assuming these are "lies" (quite frankly including a wishy washy word like extensively in there is shocking, but Cohen was represented by Clinton Grifter lanny davis, so no surprise)

the Moscow Project is not and was not illegal. Do you understand? Yes __ No__
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:20 PM   #506
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,245
When all you have is really "Dear Leader is incapable of mistakes or doing wrong, and anybody who says otherwise is a doubleplus ungood crimethinker" you are not going to come off very well except to other Cult Members.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:29 PM   #507
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 21,590
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I highlighted the fallacious statement for you.
You really don't understands what a fallacy is. What you highlighted is NOT a fallacy.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:38 PM   #508
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
falls off chair...

folks, I am going to do y'all a solid and link this again, because it seems the the big Dog is the only one who bothered to read it, yet that does not stop our correspondents from flat out lying about it.

https://republicans-oversight.house....J-Referral.pdf

Points 2, 5 and 6 directly relates to Cohen's lies about the President.
It seems the Big Dog needs to take some remedial English reading classes. 2 involves a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. 6 is a 100% semantic quibble and also involves a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. 5 attempts to address a statement made about Trump, but it fails because what it calls contradictions, aren't contradictions:

Quote:
A. For instance, Mr. Cohen verbally testified that he was a good lawyer who understood the need to present his client with sound legal advice. Mr. Cohen contradicted his verbal testimony in his written statement by testifying that he made a payment to Stephanie Clifford "without bothering to consider whether that was improper, much less whether it was the right thing to do...."
Firstly, again, this regards a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. Secondly, this is not a contradiction because Cohen can both understand the need to present Trump with sound legal advice and yet still carry out Trump's orders which countermand or disregard that advice. Trump's actual cabinet is forced to do this on a daily basis as a matter of course because that's what working for Trump is like. Trump's last Defense Secretary actually resigned expressly because he was tired of doing this.

Quote:
B. Mr. Cohen also contradicted his written statement by verbally testifying that the president directed him and Trump Organization Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg to "go back to his office and figure out how to [make the $130,000 payment to Ms. Clifford]". In his written statement, however, Mr. Cohen testified that "Mr. Trump directed me to use my own personal funds from a [HELOC] to avoid any money being traced back to him that could negatively impact his campaign."
Also not a contradiction, because Trump would still have the final say on what should be done after directing his underlings to formulate an action plan. Trump ordered them to "figure out how to make the payment"; but that's not the same order as "okay, now make the payment", which Trump would also have to personally make afterwards. It could very well be that Weisselberg and Cohen decided it would be best to use some unconnected funding source to make the payments, and Trump decided that source would be Cohen's personal funds.

This is quite self-evident of course to anyone who's not deliberately trolling; but here I am humoring you.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:45 PM   #509
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It seems the Big Dog needs to take some remedial English reading classes. 2 involves a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. 6 is a 100% semantic quibble and also involves a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. 5 attempts to address a statement made about Trump, but it fails because what it calls contradictions, aren't contradictions:
Well golly gee, all those words just to say TBD is right. That is so fine I ain't even gonna quibble with your specious objections to 2 and 6.

Good to have ya on Team TBD my good man... I feel a friend request is in your near future.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:52 PM   #510
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,225
Stewart Rahr is a pharmaceutical billionaire, self-described "king of all fun" and was "the fake bidder" who plunked down $60,000 in 2013 for a portrait of his friend Trump, according to an article clipping provided Wednesday by former Trump attorney Michael Cohen.
"The objective was to ensure that his portrait, which was going to be auctioned last, would go for the highest price of any portrait that afternoon," Cohen said in his opening statement Wednesday to the House Oversight Committee. He also described the bidder as a straw buyer, who makes a purchase on behalf of another person.
The bidder was reimbursed by the charity Trump Foundation.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/27/polit...yer/index.html
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:56 PM   #511
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Trump arranges massive donation to a charity, the Resistance weeps.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 01:59 PM   #512
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
sounds totally legit.

Oh I was just eavesdropping on the President of the USA talking to the biggest bad ass in Congress.
TBD calls it. The biggest bad ass in congress calls it Fake News:

Stick with Team TBD
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:01 PM   #513
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,245
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Stewart Rahr is a pharmaceutical billionaire, self-described "king of all fun" and was "the fake bidder" who plunked down $60,000 in 2013 for a portrait of his friend Trump, according to an article clipping provided Wednesday by former Trump attorney Michael Cohen.
"The objective was to ensure that his portrait, which was going to be auctioned last, would go for the highest price of any portrait that afternoon," Cohen said in his opening statement Wednesday to the House Oversight Committee. He also described the bidder as a straw buyer, who makes a purchase on behalf of another person.
The bidder was reimbursed by the charity Trump Foundation.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/27/polit...yer/index.html
God, that is pathetic, on the same level as cheating at Solitaire.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:02 PM   #514
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,245
Fact is Trump is having the worst week of his Presidency with the double whammies of the Cohen Testimony and the total fiasco with North Korea, and TBD just can't cope with Dear Leader being shown to have such feet of clay.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:03 PM   #515
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,355
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sure thing my man! I like the enthusiasm.

Lets start with the first lie in the "information" "The Moscow Project Ended in January of 2016 and was not discussed extensively with others in the Company."

First of all, let me make it clear that I am assuming these are "lies" (quite frankly including a wishy washy word like extensively in there is shocking, but Cohen was represented by Clinton Grifter lanny davis, so no surprise)

the Moscow Project is not and was not illegal. Do you understand? Yes __ No__
No. I don't think we understand enough about the Moscow Project to know whether it ever crossed that line.

But, more importantly, I never claimed it was illegal. Nothing I have posted here depends on the legality or illegality of Trump's strong desire to have a massive project in Moscow at a time when Moscow was actively interfering in our election process on his behalf. I'm sorry if you got that impression.

The lie Cohen pleaded guilty to telling was that Trump did nothing wrong.

So, to get back to my questions, it looks like we have an answer to number 1:
  1. What totally legal thing was Trump doing that Cohen thought he should lie about? TBD: Trump's Moscow Project
  2. Why did Cohen lie about those things?
  3. Who benefited most from Cohen's lies to Congress?
  4. When Cohen lied about Trump who was the first person Trump called to report that Cohen was lying?
    (Did he tell the FBI first or did he call a congressman to let him know? Maybe it was Gaetz.)

Shall we continue?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:10 PM   #516
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 21,590
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It seems the Big Dog needs to take some remedial English reading classes. 2 involves a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. 6 is a 100% semantic quibble and also involves a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. 5 attempts to address a statement made about Trump, but it fails because what it calls contradictions, aren't contradictions:

Firstly, again, this regards a statement Cohen made about himself, not about Trump. Secondly, this is not a contradiction because Cohen can both understand the need to present Trump with sound legal advice and yet still carry out Trump's orders which countermand or disregard that advice. Trump's actual cabinet is forced to do this on a daily basis as a matter of course because that's what working for Trump is like. Trump's last Defense Secretary actually resigned expressly because he was tired of doing this.

Also not a contradiction, because Trump would still have the final say on what should be done after directing his underlings to formulate an action plan. Trump ordered them to "figure out how to make the payment"; but that's not the same order as "okay, now make the payment", which Trump would also have to personally make afterwards. It could very well be that Weisselberg and Cohen decided it would be best to use some unconnected funding source to make the payments, and Trump decided that source would be Cohen's personal funds.

This is quite self-evident of course to anyone who's not deliberately trolling; but here I am humoring you.
The desperate flailing away is very funny. Not a single GOP House member defended Trump. All they did was attack Cohen. And they did a pathetic job of it.

What does that tell you? The substance was left standing. Hey TBD, want to understand what an ad hominem fallacy is? GOP House members provided plenty of them yesterday. Not once did they address substance. Instead they hurled ad hominem attacks at the messenger.

Cohen was prepped very well. He knew that any misstep or misstatement of fact could result in additional prison time. And this letter is the GOP's attempt to point out a mistake. But it certainly seems week and pathetic.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:11 PM   #517
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,225
Trump Org moneyman Allen Weisselberg to be grilled by House Intel committee

According to a report by the Daily Beast’s Spencer Ackerman, the Trump Organization’s Allen Weisselberg will be called to appear before the Democratic-held House Intelligence Committee.

According to a source close to the committee, the Chief Financial Officer for President Donald Trump’s privately-held company will be asked to appear after he was once-again dragged into the conversation during testimony from former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen on Wednesday.

According to the report, “The Committee anticipates bringing in Mr. Weisselberg,” adding a Democratic aide, stated, “The House intelligence community intends to call the Trump Organization’s chief financial officer to testify.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/tru...mittee-report/
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:12 PM   #518
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
No. I don't think we understand enough about the Moscow Project to know whether it ever crossed that line.

But, more importantly, I never claimed it was illegal. Nothing I have posted here depends on the legality or illegality of Trump's strong desire to have a massive project in Moscow at a time when Moscow was actively interfering in our election process on his behalf. I'm sorry if you got that impression.

The lie Cohen pleaded guilty to telling was that Trump did nothing wrong.

So, to get back to my questions, it looks like we have an answer to number 1:
  1. What totally legal thing was Trump doing that Cohen thought he should lie about? TBD: Trump's Moscow Project
  2. Why did Cohen lie about those things?
  3. Who benefited most from Cohen's lies to Congress?
  4. When Cohen lied about Trump who was the first person Trump called to report that Cohen was lying?
    (Did he tell the FBI first or did he call a congressman to let him know? Maybe it was Gaetz.)

Shall we continue?
well, lets back up. You and our correspondents have written this:

"The lie Cohen pleaded guilty to telling was that Trump did nothing wrong."

where are you getting this???

Then we can get back to your questions.

Last edited by The Big Dog; 28th February 2019 at 02:14 PM.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:14 PM   #519
cantonear1968
Graduate Poster
 
cantonear1968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,657
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, you did not read the information, or you did not understand it?

I will assume it is the later. You see Dr. Keith, the first thing you have to understand is that the deep state can convict people for lying to the government about things that are totally legal.

Let me give you a super simple example. Say Donald trump got his car fixed on saturday, but Michael Cohen said he got it fixed on friday. the deep state can and will prosecute targets of ratsistance for "lying" about thing that are totally legal in order to co-opt them into doing their sleazy business.

That is the case here, Cohen admitted lying about Trump doing absolutely legal things.

That is why we call them process crimes, the deep state had nothing on Trump so they ginned up some fake charges against Cohen to go along with the real actual crimes Cohen and his wife committed and got him to roll over like a rat.

I hope this helps
When you say "the deep state" I wonder of that is anything like "the incredibly vast conspiracy":

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
3. Most importantly, you are ducking the question: you came here spamming the CIT's new video, in which they show Lloyde (the strangely hospitable, open and generous point person of the incredibly vast conspiracy)
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...68#post4164868

There's a saying in Hollywood: if you want the Oscar, never go full CIT!
__________________
Can you people please stop not thinking? - Gorgonian

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
-Good luck America with President Trump
cantonear1968 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 02:15 PM   #520
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well golly gee, all those words just to say TBD is right.
"Attempts to address but fails" is not the same as "addresses".

Have you ever made a single good-faith response to anyone in your entire time of membership on this forum?
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:18 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.