ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 5th May 2020, 02:54 AM   #2801
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Dear interested reader, look at this!
It seems that Sol88 is slowly moving towards accepting the mainstream view about ice from comets. Now there is a start, maybe there is still hope for this poor soul.
If Sol88 would just then take a community college course on physics and math, then maybe also his issue with determining how much ice there actually is, will also be laid at rest.
The ice does not need to come from the nucleus, but what would you know!
You cant answer a direct question and you use incorrect models and assumption based on the known property that comets are mostly ice.

No wonder your papers are not big on the citation front.

Will you answer a direct question?
Quote:
So, tusenfem how is the magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field effecting the charged dust?

What say ye plasma expert?
Is the charged dust affected by this electric field? and indeed all the electric fields in play at comet nuclei?

Rhetorical really just enjoy watching you squirm.

Of course it is affected by electric fields, you'd find it harder to convince people it didn't, unless like you, the dust is treated as neutral!

It is being charged by an electric field!

all your problems go away when you accept the nucleus is already in possession of a charge.

AS the EU states and is standard dusty plasma physics, I'm even the numpties here could understand. Correct jonesdave116?

Still, i like our little
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 5th May 2020 at 02:56 AM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 03:00 AM   #2802
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
You are smart enough to see what's commming and I do appreciete your position.

Just a shame to not see you take a lead.

Oh well $$ talk and I cant hold that against you.

Double layers at comets, really?



Happy to call them field aligned ambipolar electric fields if it make you feel less insecure!

Doing exactly what I'd hoped they do. Keep up the good work.

Remember Laakso? Electric fields and cold electrons at comet Halley

Quote:
7. The cometo pause is observed in bound at 160,000k m with a thickness of 10,000k in. It has a positively charged outer surface and a negatively charged inner surface with a potential drop of 50-100 kV. A current layer, with a thickness of 22,000 km and the electric current flowing from dawn to dusk is located on Vega 1 outside the cometopausae at a distance of 8,000km. The current layer contains solar wind plasma flow that is not properly able to penetrate the cometopause but is diverted to move along the cometopause.
Deca simulated the same thing and confirmed by Rosetta.
Quote:
We measure deflection angles in excess of 45° for both the solar wind protons and cometary ions. In addition, at a fixed location in space with respect to the comet, the pickup angle is larger for cometary ions with greater energies [47]. Both observations are in agreement with recent plasma measurements by the Rosetta spacecraft [48,49].
Jan Deca
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 5th May 2020 at 04:01 AM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:04 AM   #2803
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Not too forget of course Gunell et al.

Quote:
Conclusions. The ambipolar and polarisation electric fields both have a significant influence on the motion of cometary ions. This demonstrates the importance of space charge effects in comet plasma physics.
Polarisation of a small-scale cometary plasma environment

What are these space charge effects Gunell speaks of tusenfem?

Rhetorical. So don't blow a poopit valve champ!
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:20 AM   #2804
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Not too forget of course Gunell et al.

Polarisation of a small-scale cometary plasma environment

What are these space charge effects Gunell speaks of tusenfem?

Rhetorical. So don't blow a poopit valve champ!
None of this has anything to do with your failed woo. Explain your failed woo or bugger off.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:20 AM   #2805
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
If an interested reader would like to investigate further on the question that tusenfem spat the dummy and will not answer, this paper may shed a little more light.

Possible observation of charged nanodust from comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko: an analysis for the ROSETTA mission

Quote:
Abstract
Nanodust particles are ubiquitous in the Solar System; we may expect that comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, the target of the upcoming ROSETTA mission, is also a source of nanodust, that is dust particles of nanometer size. Due to their small size and mass, the dust detectors can not observe them directly neither on the orbiter nor on the Philae lander.

However, if nanodust grains get charged, the ion and electron sensors on board of the orbiter might detect them.
Might detect?

Seems so...
Quote:
Observations taken on February 19th, 2016 during a dust outburst observed by several other instruments (Eberhard Grun, in prep) verified that the most common morphology of the AF is linked to dust and charged nanograins.
The effects of dust outbursts on the anomalistic features observed by Rosetta Alice around 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:23 AM   #2806
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You are smart enough to see what's commming and I do appreciete your position.

Just a shame to not see you take a lead.

Oh well $$ talk and I cant hold that against you.

Double layers at comets, really?



Happy to call them field aligned ambipolar electric fields if it make you feel less insecure!

Doing exactly what I'd hoped they do. Keep up the good work.

Remember Laakso? Electric fields and cold electrons at comet Halley



Deca simulated the same thing and confirmed by Rosetta. Jan Deca
Give up you utter clown. You do not understand the first thing about plasma physics. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. Electric fields, courtesy of outgassing, are nothing remotely like double layers. You are only embarrassing yourself. Again. Deal with your failed woo.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:24 AM   #2807
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
No faking, just misinterpretation of the data.

Trying to fit data to the dirtysnowball.

What a joke.
Liar. You do not understand the first thing about the data. It falsified your idiotic woo before it was even invented.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:27 AM   #2808
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
None of this has anything to do with your failed woo. Explain your failed woo or bugger off.
It seems too hard for you jd116.

Wouldn't know if it hit you in the head and jumped up a bit you in the arse!

Grow up.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:28 AM   #2809
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Quote:
AS the EU states and is standard dusty plasma physics, I'm even the numpties here could understand. Correct jonesdave116?
Nobody in EU has got the foggiest clue about comets or plasma physics. So why not give up you posing clown?
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:30 AM   #2810
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So says jd116, the plasma numpty!

Grab the paper drag it out and lets get too it champ.

Challenged?
What paper, you lying piece of ******
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:31 AM   #2811
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Nobody in EU has got the foggiest clue about comets or plasma physics. So why not give up you posing clown?
Along with yourself! clueless plasma numpty!


Actually quite amusing watching you. Keep it up.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 04:37 AM   #2812
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Anyways, just in case the idiot Sol88 was hoping this would go away, it isn't;

Lowell Morgan
May 9 2017


Quote:
as far as i know, Tony Peratt remains extant. as with pretty much all the EU/ES/EC speculations (which i know lots about as i know most of the principals in the area), there is no substance, just hand waving speculations. they eschew mathematics, which for 2400 years has been closely intertwined with physical science. hence, they have no predictive capability and no serious models for any process. they are not rejected by mainstream physics as almost no professional physicists have even heard of the EU, etc. they castigate Einstein categorically although they’re not aware that Einstein made major discoveries in a half dozen different subjects. what they don’t like are one or both of the relativity theories although few, if any, of them have any technical understanding of the theories. the relativities & quantum mechanics are among the most accurate theories in modern physics, confirmed experimentally time & time again. and used, like calculus, on a daily basis. it appears as though the EU fans really want physics to end in the 19th century and look for explanations of all phenomena in terms of the pre-20th century physics. they’re just wrong or as Wolfgang Pauli might have said, there’s so little there that it’s not even wrong. i suspect that the recent interest in the topic is part of trending “death of expertise”, as it’s being called. anyone can put anything on the Internet and it has a leveling effect where in many, if not most, people feel that their opinion is a good as that of anyone else; as good as the opinions of professional scientists who, as have i, have worked in the field for half a century. ultimately it matters little because science will move along and the fringe will remain, well, the fringe.
https://www.quora.com/Who-is-respons...mment/35123650

So, he may have taken their shilling for a while, but was not fooled by their woo. Makes me wonder if he actually knew what he was supposedly testing in this 'experiment'. Anyways, looks like he is long gone from this woo.


EDIT:

*
Quote:
As a consequence, the physicist could not handle the results that were measured. He got scared and ran off. The lab team has not heard from him since…
https://globalbem.com/globalbem-conference-2019-day-2/
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin

Last edited by jonesdave116; 5th May 2020 at 05:13 AM.
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 05:07 AM   #2813
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Anyways, just in case the idiot Sol88 was hoping this would go away, it isn't;

Lowell Morgan
May 9 2017




https://www.quora.com/Who-is-respons...mment/35123650

So, he may have taken their shilling for a while, but was not fooled by their woo. Makes me wonder if he actually knew what he was supposedly testing in this 'experiment'. Anyways, looks like he is long gone from this woo.


EDIT:

*
Quote:
As a consequence, the physicist could not handle the results that were measured. He got scared and ran off. The lab team has not heard from him since…
https://globalbem.com/globalbem-conference-2019-day-2/
404 errror
Page Not Found
We searched everywhere but couldn't find the page you were looking for.

https://www.quora.com/Who-is-respons...mment/35123650

further

Quote:
Ralf Neels spent quite some time to put this article together and it is based on his personal experience.
Well that settles that then!
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 05:10 AM   #2814
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
I'm sure you are very well versed on the mainstream dogma!

If you can repeat the story you can get a job in academia!

Publish or die!

I'm think you are very good at it.
No, you are not good at anything, other than lying to protect your religion.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 05:12 AM   #2815
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
404 errror
Page Not Found
We searched everywhere but couldn't find the page you were looking for.

https://www.quora.com/Who-is-respons...mment/35123650

further



Well that settles that then!
Idiot.

https://www.quora.com/Who-is-respons...mment/35123650
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 05:14 AM   #2816
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Quote:
The presence of a coherent structure so far from the nucleus suggests that the plasma tails of comets may persist as discrete entities for many astronomical units. As the tail of Hyakutake persisted to Ulysses, it is likely that this structure, ultimately produced by an object only,2.4 km across, survived to reach the edge of the heliosphere.
Geraint H. Jones

Wow sublimation is amazing!
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 05:18 AM   #2817
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
and that's your defense against the bleeding obvious?

All hope is lost, if your happy with the Dirtysnowball, by all means stick with it!

Numpty!
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 05:21 AM   #2818
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Geraint H. Jones

Wow sublimation is amazing!
Quote:
The presence of a coherent structure so far from the nucleus suggests that the plasma tails of comets may persist as discrete entities for many astronomical units. As the tail of Hyakutake persisted to Ulysses, it is likely that this structure, ultimately produced by an object only,2.4 km across, survived to reach the edge of the heliosphere.
What would Lowell Morgan say I wonder.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 06:19 AM   #2819
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Geraint H. Jones

Wow sublimation is amazing!
Wow, what an idiot. Sublimation is observed you ignorant clown.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 06:20 AM   #2820
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
What would Lowell Morgan say I wonder.
And another dumb comment. Your woo failed. Get over it, and stop polluting this board with your insane ramblings.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 06:22 AM   #2821
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
and that's your defense against the bleeding obvious?

All hope is lost, if your happy with the Dirtysnowball, by all means stick with it!

Numpty!
It is what the only real scientist on the SAFIRE woo thinks of the EU idiots. Having met them!
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 06:32 AM   #2822
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So says jd116, the plasma numpty!

Grab the paper drag it out and lets get too it champ.

Challenged?
come on, please.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 06:45 AM   #2823
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
come on, please.
I asked you, you idiot; what ******* paper?
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 06:49 AM   #2824
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
You are a ******* idiot. That is ice, you lying buffoon. It is spectroscopically identified as ice, you idiot. Nothing else it can be you uneducated, pathetic loon.
come on, please!

Grab the paper that says
Quote:
It is spectroscopically identified as ice
and we can get into it!
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 5th May 2020 at 06:50 AM.
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 07:10 AM   #2825
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
come on, please!

Grab the paper that says and we can get into it!
WTF are you talking about? I have linked it umpteen times, you buffoon. And you are not even qualified to spell spectroscopy, let alone ******* understand it.



Water Ice and Dust in the Innermost Coma of Comet 103P/Hartley 2
Protopapa, S. et al (2014)
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1406.3382.pdf

And there is nothing to get into. Observations of ice are observations of ice;

Quote:
The extracted reflectance spectra include well defined absorption bands near 1.5, 2.0, and 3.0 µm consistent in position, bandwidth, and shape with the presence of water ice grains.
Which is also consistent with the white stuff floating around the comet not being cocaine or chalk.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 07:44 AM   #2826
tusenfem
Master Poster
 
tusenfem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,787
Just is case someone wants to know, nano-dust grains have a mass of about ~1.E-20 kg, which is a staggering ~1.e7 (10.000.000) times heavier than a proton, and say ~1.e6 times heavier than any of the heavier molecules like water or carbondioxide.

Any charged dust grain in an electric field will thus be accelerated ~1 million times LESS than a water molecule and even ~1 milliard times LESS than an electron.
__________________
20 minutes into the future
This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak
And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages

(Max Headroom)
follow me on twitter: @tusenfem, or follow Rosetta Plasma Consortium: @Rosetta_RPC
tusenfem is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 07:55 AM   #2827
tusenfem
Master Poster
 
tusenfem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,787
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Of course it is affected by electric fields, you'd find it harder to convince people it didn't, unless like you, the dust is treated as neutral!

It is being charged by an electric field!
My bold.
I have never seen such nonsense, a dust grain being charged because it is in an electric field? Then why is not all the dust on Earth charged as we alway have a fair weather electric field of several tens of Volts per meter?
__________________
20 minutes into the future
This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak
And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages

(Max Headroom)
follow me on twitter: @tusenfem, or follow Rosetta Plasma Consortium: @Rosetta_RPC
tusenfem is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 09:09 AM   #2828
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Just is case someone wants to know, nano-dust grains have a mass of about ~1.E-20 kg, which is a staggering ~1.e7 (10.000.000) times heavier than a proton, and say ~1.e6 times heavier than any of the heavier molecules like water or carbondioxide.

Any charged dust grain in an electric field will thus be accelerated ~1 million times LESS than a water molecule and even ~1 milliard times LESS than an electron.

It is precisely this kind of reasoning that Sol88 cannot do. If he could, we would not have this thread.
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 10:07 AM   #2829
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Just is case someone wants to know, nano-dust grains have a mass of about ~1.E-20 kg, which is a staggering ~1.e7 (10.000.000) times heavier than a proton, and say ~1.e6 times heavier than any of the heavier molecules like water or carbondioxide.

Any charged dust grain in an electric field will thus be accelerated ~1 million times LESS than a water molecule and even ~1 milliard times LESS than an electron.
Not seen that word for a while! Thought you were talking about a duck until my eyes focused properly!

For Sol's benefit, that is 10-9, or 1 billionth.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 03:03 PM   #2830
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 27,098
Exclamation A pathological "mainstream dogma" lie when we have science

A pathological "mainstream dogma" lie when we have science and physical evidence - he is the one with demented dogma and no evidence.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 03:12 PM   #2831
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 27,098
Exclamation A pathological "Wow sublimation is amazing" lie about a comet tail quote

A pathological "Wow sublimation is amazing" lie about a comet tail quote.
The physical fact that the detected ices on comets must sublimate just provides gas. That gas makes part of the coma. The solar wind then pushes some of the gas out from the comet to form the tail.

Quote:
The presence of a coherent structure so far from the nucleus suggests that the plasma tails of comets may persist as discrete entities for many astronomical units. As the tail of Hyakutake persisted to Ulysses, it is likely that this structure, ultimately produced by an object only,2.4 km across, survived to reach the edge of the heliosphere.
Geraint H. Jones

Last edited by Reality Check; 5th May 2020 at 03:14 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th May 2020, 03:19 PM   #2832
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 27,098
Exclamation The usual insane level of lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
101 items of pathological lies, etc. from Sol88 since ~10 March 2020
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn and all astronomers by Sol88 linking them with Sol88's demented dogma, etc.

Next post: A pathological "mainstream dogma" lie when we have science and physical evidence - he is the one with demented dogma and no evidence
Next post: Idiocy about the only real physicist (Lowell Morgan) in the SAFIRE project abandoning the project in 2017 (before it turned into a deluded 'cold fusion' scam). He copied the test of the link!
Next post: A pathological "Wow sublimation is amazing" lie about a comet tail quote..
Next post: Insane lies about posts and posters.
jonesdave116 cited Lowell Morgan in 2017 pointing out the EU idiocy of denying mathematics and modern physics.
Next post: Insanity about Lowell Morgan - he would say that is what comets do!
Next post: Gibberish.
Next post: Insane lies about posts and posters.


ETA:
The Lowell Morgan comment is to a rather idiotic "Who is responsible for the ridiculous theory of the electric Universe?" 'question'. It is an excuse for the author to list actual scientists who are irrelevant to the EU woo !
Sir William Grove, James Clerk Maxwell, Kristian Birkeland, Hannes Alfvén, Anthony L. Peratt are scientists reaching electromagnetism and plasma physics. Nikolai Tesla is an engineer often obsessed on by cranks. Listing Peratt is definitely a lie because Peratt's web site explicitly distanced himself from EU. Then we get a outright paranoiac lie: "Einstein too, suspected that electromagnetic waves were transmitted through space in an aether, although he later reneged on his idea under pressure from peer ridicule.". Then an insane " is well supported by the work, research and discoveries of eminent scientists" lie. Then an insane "the conditions of evidence, experimentation and predictions, add up to a theory worthy of merit" lie. The EU is merely a bunch of cranks making up fantasies that the universe is run by electricity without evidence, experiments or predictions.

Last edited by Reality Check; 5th May 2020 at 03:43 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 03:10 AM   #2833
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Just is case someone wants to know, nano-dust grains have a mass of about ~1.E-20 kg, which is a staggering ~1.e7 (10.000.000) times heavier than a proton, and say ~1.e6 times heavier than any of the heavier molecules like water or carbondioxide.

Any charged dust grain in an electric field will thus be accelerated ~1 million times LESS than a water molecule and even ~1 milliard times LESS than an electron.
Your problem, not the comets!

Dusty plasma's baby! Simulating Diverse Instabilities of Dust in Magnetized Gas Time to brush up!

i.e your MATHAMAJICS will not allow it!

We see it. Nothing required but eyeball mkI

You cant even settle on which model to use except that they MUST contain water!

Near-perihelion activity of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. A first attempt of non-static analysis

Model A, B C

What's behind window 1?

Anyway back to jd116 and all the ICE!

With the rate of surprising and new discoveries...
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 07:18 AM   #2834
tusenfem
Master Poster
 
tusenfem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,787
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Your problem, not the comets!
I have no problem whatsoever, I am just pointing out the physics. I sure hope you still "believe" in Newton?

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Dusty plasma's baby! Simulating Diverse Instabilities of Dust in Magnetized Gas Time to brush up!

i.e your MATHAMAJICS will not allow it!
Please tell us more, what does my mathamajics not allow?
I am sure that Hopkins et al. use the exact same mathematics and physics, just like Deca and Divin and all your other hero's (well hero's until they claim something you don't like, like using the Haser model)
And also note that they are talking about a "Magnetized GAS"!!!!!
__________________
20 minutes into the future
This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak
And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages

(Max Headroom)
follow me on twitter: @tusenfem, or follow Rosetta Plasma Consortium: @Rosetta_RPC
tusenfem is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 11:21 AM   #2835
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,855
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

Anyway back to jd116 and all the ICE!

With the rate of surprising and new discoveries...
What? Ice is ice, you clown. It is spectroscopically identified. Nothing is going to change that. Understand? It was ice then, and it will be ice when the Sun gobbles up Earth, and long after. You think the spectral lines are going to change? That the photos of Hartley 2 will just fade from the internet? SMH!
Have you got anything to say that makes any sense at all? That actually addresses your failed woo? No. In which case why not do us all a favour and take a holiday from here? A permanent one.
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 01:04 PM   #2836
Indagator
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 93
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Just a quick drive-by .... Hee! Hee!

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Your problem, not the comets!

Dusty plasma's baby! Simulating Diverse Instabilities of Dust in Magnetized Gas Time to brush up!

i.e your MATHAMAJICS will not allow it!

We see it. Nothing required but eyeball mkI

You cant even settle on which model to use except that they MUST contain water!

HOLY SHHHHHHHHHH--T!

Do you EVER read what you're about to cite? The above paper is mainstream brilliant! And of absolutely no help to your RELIGION!

The simulations are driven using Hopkins' GIZMO code! Time to brush up on your MHD baby because there are no particle-in-cell modules here! And look at all the MATHAMATICS!!! And fundamental mainstream physics!!! Sol88, would you please explain the following quote using your typical 'comedic eu/es/ec' ... vomit?

Originally Posted by Hopkins, Squire, and Seligman (2020) Simulating Diverse Instabilities of Dust in Magnetized Gas
In particular, whenever drag or Lorentz forces exert a force mgrain dvd/dt on a grain within a given gas cell, an equal-but-opposite force is applied to the gas. This is treated as a usual momentum flux within GIZMO, which numerically guarantees exact force balance and total momentum conservation.

And check out equation (2)! All that sexy mainstream gas momentum physics!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Sol88, please tell the world how this paper, and associated simulations, are applicable to your 'electric comet' religion? I see no references to cometary plasmas in the text!

Sol88! You are a genuine laugh-riot! There is absolutely no way I will ever take you, or your RELIGION seriously! Thanks for keeping it real!!!

Peace, baby!!!

Last edited by Indagator; 6th May 2020 at 01:23 PM.
Indagator is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 02:49 PM   #2837
Indagator
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 93
OK! That was a mistake! I should not have followed that link! I can't afford the distraction! WOW!

Just a quick update, Sol88!

Your link to, Hopkins et al (2020) Simulating Diverse Instabilities of Dust in Magnetized Gas, points to a previous paper ---

Hopkins and Squire (2018) Ubiquitous Instabilities of Dust Moving in Magnetized Gas

You might want to READ IT! Or NOT! Sadly, no mention of 'electric comet' magic (i.e., the focus of this thread) is made in either paper. Your SOP is to grab papers that have "words in the title" to make your case! You NEVER bother to read those words, or the paper! Sol88, your reasoning and reading comprehension skills are pathetic!

From the Abstract of the second paper ---
Originally Posted by Hopkins and Squire (2018)
Dust charge and magnetic fields do not suppress instabilities, but give rise to a large number of new instability ‘families,’ each with distinct behavior. The ‘MHD-wave’ (magnetosonic or Alfvén) RDIs exhibit maximal growth along ‘resonant’ angles where the modes have a phase velocity matching the corresponding MHD wave, and growth rates increase without limit with wavenumber. The ‘gyro’ RDIs are driven by resonances between drift and Larmor frequencies, giving growth rates sharply peaked at specific wavelengths. Other instabilities include ‘acoustic’ and ‘pressure-free’ modes (previously studied), and a family akin to cosmic ray instabilities that appear when Lorentz forces are strong and dust streams super-Alfvénically along field lines. We discuss astrophysical applications in the warm ISM, circum-galactic medium/inter-galactic medium (CGM/IGM), H ii regions, SNe ejecta/remnants, Solar corona, cool-star winds, GMCs, and AGN.

Bold added by Indagator!

As an aside, what are "resonant drag instabilities" (RDIs)? Hee! Hee! How do they help or hurt the formation of your precious double layers? At what spatial scales are these simulations applied? WAHAHAHAHA!

FYI - You may NEVER want to mention these paper again! Unless, of course, you can show how MHD is applicable at comets! Hee! Hee!

The interwebz NEVER forget!!!

Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
And also note that they are talking about a "Magnetized GAS"!!!!!

One last point, Sol88 ... What do you think of tusenfem's observation? What is a Magnetized GAS? How does a magnetized GAS help your 'ec' religion?

Last edited by Indagator; 6th May 2020 at 03:37 PM.
Indagator is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 03:47 PM   #2838
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
What? Ice is ice, you clown. It is spectroscopically identified. Nothing is going to change that. Understand? It was ice then, and it will be ice when the Sun gobbles up Earth, and long after. You think the spectral lines are going to change? That the photos of Hartley 2 will just fade from the internet? SMH!
Have you got anything to say that makes any sense at all? That actually addresses your failed woo? No. In which case why not do us all a favour and take a holiday from here? A permanent one.
Quote:
Therefore, the free parameters in our model are the water ice-to-dust fraction (FH2O), the coma temperature Tc, and the scattering (f) and emitting (fe) filling factors.
Quote:
The particle diameters of both components in the mixture (< DH2O >and < DAC >) are assumed equal to 1 um (see next Section).
Quote:
Additionally, the combination of our simple model and the chosen set of optical constants is not expected to fit the spectra exactly, given the many complexities of cometary comae.

Interesting to note the paper also finds most water/ice in the coma not the nucleus.

This is also seen at 67P.

Almost like the water/ice is being "made' in the coma! If you add Hydrogen Lyman-alpha into the mix...

Water Production Activity of Nine Long-Period Comets from SOHO/SWAN Observations of Hydrogen Lyman-alpha: 2013–2016

Further, it seems they are still trying to fir the data to a an incorrect model. The dirtysnowball


So more I'm than happy to agree there is ice at comets but that does not mean comets are mostly ice!

As laid out here Near-perihelion activity of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. A first attempt of non-static analysis Yu. SkorovMarch 23 2020

Quote:
ABSTRACT

The observed rate of water production of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko near its perihelion can be approximated by a very steep power function of the heliocentric distance. Widely used thermophysical models based on a static dust layer on top of the icy/refractory matrix are poorly consistent with these observations.

We analyse published model results and demonstrate that thermophysical models with a uniform and static ice free layer do not reproduce the observed steep water production rates of 67P near perihelion. Based on transient thermal modeling we conclude that the accelerated gas activity can be explained assuming that the active area fraction near the south pole is increased. The deeper penetration of the heat wave during polar day (no sunset) can activate sublimation through thicker inert dust layers. This can also lead to removal of thicker dust layers and consequently to an expansion of the active area.
Skorov et al may like to have a chat to Lucchetti et al
Quote:
Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.
The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Protopapa et al may want to revisit their paper also. Use a more realistic model.



Now I am really confused

Jonesdave116 perhaps you can help this poor numpty.

Are comets
  1. Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.
  2. A static dust layer on top of the icy/refractory matrix
  3. An icy surface
  4. long list of models proven incorrect (sand bank, rubble pile etc etc)

In summary

Quote:
Here, it is important to explain one non-trivial feature of this assumption: the concept of static does not mean that the layer consists of the same particles, quite the opposite, it is assumed implicitly that the dust particles on the upper boundary of the layer are constantly carried away by the gas flow, and this ablation is exactly offset by the addition of new particles on the lower boundary of the layer (so we have at the same time a fixed layer thickness and non-zero dust production). It seems obvious that this assumption is artificial and non-physical. However, today we do not have more adequate models.

It is not surprising, therefore, that none of the models mentioned can fit an accelerated gas production near perihelion
Noted that none of the models I've seen yet have modeled a consolidated surfaces as opposed to a dust layer on top of an icy/refractory
matrix.

Although, it was noted by Fulle et al
Quote:
7 THERMO-PHYSICAL MODELS FAIL
Unexpected and significant findings in comet
67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view


The Dirtysnowball a FAILED model.

Not surprising at all for the mainstream and their dogma that comets are leftovers frozen ice blocks from the supposed formation of the solar system last Tuesday at 4pm.



It's the mainstreams unending pontification that comets are icy objects that keep them scratching their heads.

Problem is we detect trace amounts of ice! As jonesdave116 says.

Ice can be spontaneously formed in a plasma from water vapor. We detect hydrated minerals/rock on comets and anhydrous charged dust in the coma.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 03:49 PM   #2839
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by Indagator View Post
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Just a quick drive-by .... Hee! Hee!




HOLY SHHHHHHHHHH--T!

Do you EVER read what you're about to cite? The above paper is mainstream brilliant! And of absolutely no help to your RELIGION!

The simulations are driven using Hopkins' GIZMO code! Time to brush up on your MHD baby because there are no particle-in-cell modules here! And look at all the MATHAMATICS!!! And fundamental mainstream physics!!! Sol88, would you please explain the following quote using your typical 'comedic eu/es/ec' ... vomit?




And check out equation (2)! All that sexy mainstream gas momentum physics!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Sol88, please tell the world how this paper, and associated simulations, are applicable to your 'electric comet' religion? I see no references to cometary plasmas in the text!

Sol88! You are a genuine laugh-riot! There is absolutely no way I will ever take you, or your RELIGION seriously! Thanks for keeping it real!!!

Peace, baby!!!
Magnetised GAS....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th May 2020, 03:53 PM   #2840
Sol88
Philosopher
 
Sol88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
My bold.
I have never seen such nonsense, a dust grain being charged because it is in an electric field? Then why is not all the dust on Earth charged as we alway have a fair weather electric field of several tens of Volts per meter?
You receiving lessons from reality check on confabulation, tusenfem?

Again champ, read S-L-O-W-L-Y...



Quote:
One of the surprising findings of the Rosetta mission is the presence of suprathermal electrons in the close cometary plasma environment with energies up to about 100 eV. The population was present already during the weakly outgassing phases of 67P’s orbit around the Sun (Clark et al. 2015). Understanding the suprathermal electron population is important, since increased fluxes of the latter have been shown to strongly affect also the cometary ionosphere via electron impact ionization (Galand et al. 2016), charge exchange (Wedlund et al. 2017; Heritier et al. 2018), and is thought to affect dust grain charging processes (Gombosi et al. 2015).
Divin

Bolded to try and help you out.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
Sol88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:24 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.