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Old 6th April 2020, 12:03 PM   #481
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Trump had access to more information than CNN.
How is this relevant?

This whole kerfuffle is because I correctly identified potential candidates for the proposed 'ironic covid-19 deaths' thread. The only two criteria were:

- "people who were dismissive or otherwise reckless about the danger (of) contracting (the virus)"
- "and dying of the illness."

Most of you seemed okay with the idea.

Two hours go by and i dared mention that some of your heroes were, in fact, dismissive or otherwise reckless about the danger of contracting the virus. Uh-oh. Not as fun anymore. Suddenly we need a new strategy. Maybe we can point out that Trump had more information than our heroes. But wait, that means Trump also had more information than the dumb conservatives who live in the flyover states. What's skeptic to do?
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:06 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
How is this relevant?

This whole kerfuffle is because I correctly identified potential candidates for the proposed 'ironic covid-19 deaths' thread. The only two criteria were:

- "people who were dismissive or otherwise reckless about the danger (of) contracting (the virus)"
- "and dying of the illness."

Most of you seemed okay with the idea.

Two hours go by and i dared mention that some of your heroes were, in fact, dismissive or otherwise reckless about the danger of contracting the virus. Uh-oh. Not as fun anymore. Suddenly we need a new strategy. Maybe we can point out that Trump had more information than our heroes.
[citation needed]

Quote:
But wait, that means Trump also had more information than the dumb conservatives who live in the flyover states. What's skeptic to do?
provide evidence.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:11 PM   #483
plague311
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
How is this relevant?

This whole kerfuffle is because I correctly identified potential candidates for the proposed 'ironic covid-19 deaths' thread. The only two criteria were:

- "people who were dismissive or otherwise reckless about the danger (of) contracting (the virus)"
Who? That's what everyone here has asked, and what you've gone way out of your way to avoid answering. Pretty much everyone, except you, is asking for evidence that CNN did this. Me included.

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Two hours go by and i dared mention that some of your heroes were, in fact, dismissive or otherwise reckless about the danger of contracting the virus. Uh-oh. Not as fun anymore. Suddenly we need a new strategy. Maybe we can point out that Trump had more information than our heroes. But wait, that means Trump also had more information than the dumb conservatives who live in the flyover states. What's skeptic to do?
I don't watch CNN regularly. My MIL does, but I don't watch my news as much as I read it. It's just easier for me.

That being said, none of them are my heroes. I don't know, outside of Anderson Cooper and Cuomo, that I could even come up with another name of someone on the show.

The fact is if Trump had more information than CNN and continued to spread that misinformation, then that is on him. If CNN repeated the talking points of the Administration, including the Administrations views, then that isn't being reckless or dismissive. Unless they agreed with him.

However, none of that is relevant at all because you haven't even confirmed your initial claim. You're actively ignoring it and it's as see through as it can be. Why not just admit your wrong instead of quadrupling down without any information to support your claim?
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:14 PM   #484
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
[citation needed]
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I AGREE
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:17 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But what does confirmed mean? Seriously not do8ng a “but what does is mean?”. A pathologist over here was saying that most people who have been confirmed as dying from the disease in the UK were not tested but diagnosed from their symptoms. I could see if one set of statistics used that as confirmed and one only used a positive test as confirmed you could have a discrepancy between the two statistics.
It means what the quote I provided says:

Quote:
The above counts are of laboratory-tested and confirmed cases of COVID-19 and should not be mistaken for the actual number of people who have or have had the coronavirus in the region.
In order to be confirmed they must have the actual laboratory confirmed test. Diagnosing from symptoms gives the probable cause, not a confirmed cause.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:18 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
These exchanges are a Masterclass presentation of Conservatroll 101 tactics.
Bingo!
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:21 PM   #487
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
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I AGREE
Very good! It only took a couple hours!

What are they saying today? Everyone was downplaying it.

They seem to have changed their minds since.

Thats Ok. Churches and beaches in parts of the south are still open! They were obviously listening to their heros at CNN.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:26 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
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I AGREE
These are from the very early days when not much was known about Coronavirus. They were not downplaying it, they were reporting what was known about it at the time. Not the same thing as what Trump and FOX were doing. But I think you know that.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:32 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
These are from the very early days when not much was known about Coronavirus. They were not downplaying it, they were reporting what was known about it at the time. Not the same thing as what Trump and FOX were doing. But I think you know that.
Meh. They kind of were. Things were very uncertain, and people kept saying 'flu worse!'.

I'm in Washington state, so locally, things escalated and were shut down quickly.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:32 PM   #490
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Most of them are reminding folks about being concerned about the Flu, which is also deadly but you can get a vaccine to help out, unlike the Coronavirus.

The comparison is made to Trump downplaying the virus, these various newscasters aren't outright denying that the virus can be deadly. Also they are not the ones in the position to take proactive steps to counter the spread of the virus or enable the treatment of the infected. They are people on TV. Trump is the President. He did almost nothing and is now actively making things worse.

They sure as heck are not the ones licking toilets in defiance, insisting they have to go to crowded mega-churches, or screaming on social media that it is a complete hoax after stay-at-home guidelines are established right before their family is begging for medical funds for their suddenly hospital stay.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:37 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
These are from the very early days when not much was known about Coronavirus. They were not downplaying it, they were reporting what was known about it at the time. Not the same thing as what Trump and FOX were doing. But I think you know that.
Which is what I was hinting at too. Were they downplaying it or just reporting the available information, which was downplayed by the Administration?
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Last edited by plague311; 6th April 2020 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:41 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Meh. They kind of were. Things were very uncertain, and people kept saying 'flu worse!'.

I'm in Washington state, so locally, things escalated and were shut down quickly.
I disagree. Downplaying something is knowing the truth and minimizing it. Those reporters/commenters on CNN in the early days were repeating what they were being told and what was believed at the time.
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Old 6th April 2020, 12:42 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Which is what I was hinting at too. Where they downplaying it or just reporting the available information, which was downplayed by the Administration?
The latter.
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Old 6th April 2020, 01:01 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I disagree. Downplaying something is knowing the truth and minimizing it. Those reporters/commenters on CNN in the early days were repeating what they were being told and what was believed at the time.
This is exactly correct.

I didn't see anyone in that mash-up of out-of-context clips claiming the coronavirus wasn't real or dangerous, or that people shouldn't be taking the necessary precautions in line with the information available at the time, unlike the yahoos whose deaths are being called ironic.

False equivalency for the win.
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Old 6th April 2020, 01:03 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
That request was bundled with these whoppers:


Which I correctly referred to as strawmen. Your claiming that I referred to the request for evidence as a strawman is itself a strawman.

I thought this was supposed to be a critical thinking forum. Why are people so confused about such a basic concept as a strawman fallacy. The term is used here incorrectly all the time, and then when used correctly no-one understands.

My statements were correct. And you are still to provide the information you had access to that allowed you to conclude people from CNN had or are downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic.
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Old 6th April 2020, 01:05 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It means what the quote I provided says:



In order to be confirmed they must have the actual laboratory confirmed test. Diagnosing from symptoms gives the probable cause, not a confirmed cause.

Sorry I must have skipped over that for some reason! (Being a pillock is the some reason.)
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Old 6th April 2020, 01:08 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Sorry I must have skipped over that for some reason! (Being a pillock is the some reason.)
I'll let it pass this time but don't let it happen again.
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Old 6th April 2020, 01:25 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
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Well, Sir Drinks a Lot has a point.

The moral of this story is that the media is a terrible source of information, especially on scientific issues.

They're almost as bad as the President of the United States.
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Old 6th April 2020, 01:29 PM   #499
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What's going on right now, though, is that many conservative media outlets are pointing to the original "flu worse" statements of the media, but still saying it. The media at least gave up on it when presented with evidence. In the old days, the media would have been the ones to dig up the evidence, but they don't do that anymore. They simply don't pay for reporters like they used to. They have news presenters, and they bring in guests, with those guests being chosen to create interesting discussions, not to provide facts.
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:12 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What's going on right now, though, is that many conservative media outlets are pointing to the original "flu worse" statements of the media, but still saying it. The media at least gave up on it when presented with evidence. In the old days, the media would have been the ones to dig up the evidence, but they don't do that anymore. They simply don't pay for reporters like they used to. They have news presenters, and they bring in guests, with those guests being chosen to create interesting discussions, not to provide facts.
I do believe I mentioned this phenominon in another thread and you all scoffed at me. THis is wheres so-called "objective" journalism has gotten us.
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:12 PM   #501
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This may be an unpopular opinion but I'm thoroughly enjoying this.

Working from home, less traffic, less people when I go out. Aside from the deaths it seems to be a much nicer world.
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:16 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This may be an unpopular opinion but I'm thoroughly enjoying this.

Working from home, less traffic, less people when I go out. Aside from the deaths it seems to be a much nicer world.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:16 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This may be an unpopular opinion but I'm thoroughly enjoying this.

Working from home, less traffic, less people when I go out. Aside from the deaths it seems to be a much nicer world.
Look up the word "psychopath".
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:25 PM   #504
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Most of them are proclimaing they believe Dear Leader over all those doctors and scientests.
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:27 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
This is what happnes when you try to defend the undefendable.
Dear Leader has messed up bigtime, and they just cannot admit it.
Aimed at the person meadmaker was responding to, not Meadmaker.
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:29 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What's going on right now, though, is that many conservative media outlets are pointing to the original "flu worse" statements of the media, but still saying it. The media at least gave up on it when presented with evidence. In the old days, the media would have been the ones to dig up the evidence, but they don't do that anymore. They simply don't pay for reporters like they used to. They have news presenters, and they bring in guests, with those guests being chosen to create interesting discussions, not to provide facts.
We still have some investigative reporters. Ronan Farrow, for example, does excellent work. There are also several investigative reporting organizations:

https://billmoyers.com/story/10-inve...ets-to-follow/
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:29 PM   #507
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Now there are trolls out there citing how many people die annually from other diseases and factors in order to try and convince people that 100-200K deaths from this outbreak is a victory..
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Old 6th April 2020, 02:38 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
We still have some investigative reporters. Ronan Farrow, for example, does excellent work. There are also several investigative reporting organizations:

https://billmoyers.com/story/10-inve...ets-to-follow/
Nice article. Thanks.

Bill Moyers used to work for CBS News.
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Old 6th April 2020, 03:27 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This may be an unpopular opinion but I'm thoroughly enjoying this.

Working from home, less traffic, less people when I go out. Aside from the deaths it seems to be a much nicer world.
Yeah just imagine if there were NO Americans. Like heaven on earth.
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Old 6th April 2020, 03:38 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well, Sir Drinks a Lot has a point.

The moral of this story is that the media is a terrible source of information, especially on scientific issues.
Except that wasn't his point.

His point was to compare media outlets (you know, where all of our "heroes" are) using measured language to describe the risk posed by the virus before all the information was known to Trump supporters who are currently claiming the whole thing is a hoax and putting other people's lives in danger with their reckless stupidity, and to pretend that they are somehow the same thing.
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Old 6th April 2020, 03:41 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yeah just imagine if there were NO Americans. Like heaven on earth.
Why do you hate black people?
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Old 6th April 2020, 03:53 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Now there are trolls out there citing how many people die annually from other diseases and factors in order to try and convince people that 100-200K deaths from this outbreak is a victory..
They've been doing that from the get-go. For a while it was the H1N1 outbreak from 2009. We'll pass that mark in the U.S. today or tomorrow.

Next it will be seasonal flu - most years around 32,000. We'll probably hit that a few days after Easter, even with things maybe not accelerating as fast as they previously were. The worst in the past 10 years was about 60,000 deaths during the 2017-2018 flu season. That might happen by the end of April.

Next is to argue that corona virus mostly only kills people who would have died anyway. There is some truth to that, but we won't really know those numbers until some time after this is over. Plus, that same argument also applies to most deaths from the flu.
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Old 6th April 2020, 05:46 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What's going on right now, though, is that many conservative media outlets are pointing to the original "flu worse" statements of the media, but still saying it. The media at least gave up on it when presented with evidence. In the old days, the media would have been the ones to dig up the evidence, but they don't do that anymore. They simply don't pay for reporters like they used to. They have news presenters, and they bring in guests, with those guests being chosen to create interesting discussions, not to provide facts.
While the TV media has largely become 'newstainment', there are still some who dig deep. But more so do the print media. And at least the TV reports that.

So no, not all investigative journalism is dead. You just have to widen suitably your intake.
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Old 6th April 2020, 05:46 PM   #514
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Kansas Republicans denied and delayed the state's response to Covid-19. Now my cousin is on a ventilator and may die of it. **** you, Trumpists.
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Old 6th April 2020, 05:48 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Kansas Republicans denied and delayed the state's response to Covid-19. Now my cousin is on a ventilator and may die of it. **** you, Trumpists.
'He may die, so that the economy may live.' -Trump Supporter.
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Old 6th April 2020, 05:58 PM   #516
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Kansas Republicans denied and delayed the state's response to Covid-19. Now my cousin is on a ventilator and may die of it. **** you, Trumpists.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope he gets better.
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Old 6th April 2020, 06:47 PM   #517
TheGoldcountry
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This may be an unpopular opinion but I'm thoroughly enjoying this.

Working from home, less traffic, less people when I go out. Aside from the deaths it seems to be a much nicer world.
Let me know when you go out, I'll be sure to stay away, I promise.
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Old 6th April 2020, 09:09 PM   #518
timhau
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
These are from the very early days when not much was known about Coronavirus. They were not downplaying it, they were reporting what was known about it at the time. Not the same thing as what Trump and FOX were doing. But I think you know that.
Well, it's still good - if you can't defent Great Leader, bring up some irrelevant point about those who dare to criticize His Tremendousness.
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Old 7th April 2020, 09:48 AM   #519
Meadmaker
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Well, here's a guy who thinks that Trump is the tough leader America needs to get through this crisis.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kenb...suppl-n2566483

(I think a lot of people will recognize the columnist's name.)

One thing I see a lot is praise for Trump for getting the private sector involved. I wonder if these people think Obama would not have done that? Of course, any President would do that. In my opinion, they would do it better than Trump. They would certainly have done it sooner.
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Old 7th April 2020, 09:54 AM   #520
Resume
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well, here's a guy who thinks that Trump is the tough leader America needs to get through this crisis.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kenb...suppl-n2566483

(I think a lot of people will recognize the columnist's name.)

One thing I see a lot is praise for Trump for getting the private sector involved. I wonder if these people think Obama would not have done that? Of course, any President would do that. In my opinion, they would do it better than Trump. They would certainly have done it sooner.
Ken Blackwell, bwahhahhahhahhahh!
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