The Electric Comet Theory /SAFIRE Part V

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 31 Mar 2020 to add his demented lies about electric discharges).
This post: Sol88 emphasizes Sol88 is too much of a coward to give the context or caption of that image: Comparison of Deep Impact and Stardust photos of a smooth elevated feature on the surface of the nucleus showing recession of icy cliffs at the margins. (my emphasis)
with a demented demand for papers.
Of course there are no published (or even rejected!) papers on his demented EDM dogma because he and his cult are too ignorant, deluded and cowardly to even try to write them. He and his cult just spew out "EDM" and reveal the depths of their delusions because this is EDM.
Yet more insanity from Sol88 reveals that he seems even more of a coward by linking to just that image than we may have thought! The annotated Wiki page for the image does not state that the image is from a paper. The image may have been NASA scientists showing the public what happened. The image may have come from a mainstream ices and dust comet paper. In either case it is nothing to do with Sol88's demented dogma.
That post ends with his demented lies about electric discharges in what he quotes from a paper when there are none and they are physically impossible in plasma !

Next post: His insanity of thanking jonesdave116 for debunking his demented dogma yet again .
This is more like another one of his thousands of insane lies over the last 11 years.
jonesdave116 raises the point that a radial magnetic field rules out the dogma of a radial electric field - As pointed out by Tim Thompson 16 years ago. That is something Sol88 must have known for those 16 years!
jonesdave116 stated that any electric discharges would have been detected from their distinctive radiation. They have not and Sol88 has known that for at least 11 years.
jonesdave116 wrote the obvious fact that EDM is a human, industrial process. Sol88 has known that for at least 11 years!
jonesdave116 missed out that Sol88's demented delusion of electric discharges in comet coma which is the subject of the paper he lies about are Sol88's own personal delusion, not his cult's demented dogma.

For others who are interested in the history of physics: The term "discharge" was used in a few early papers on magnetic reconnection to describe the high current density happening during magnetic reconnection.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

For Sol88's theory to be true:

Every experiment with nuclear fusion needs to be wrong and not have worked.
Gravity needs to stop working at arbitrary scales
Atoms need to behave differently from observation
Sublimation needs to not happen (so no freeze drying anything ever)
Solar wind needs to behave the opposite way of what we see
Electricity as we use it needs to stop working as it is observed on earth
All spacecraft need to have taken tons of extra fuel and shielding to keep working.

But Sol88 keeps ignoring all these massive discrepancies between his fantasy and the real world and instead focus on pointless minutiae, which STILL only support him when he massively misinterprets or misquotes them.
I predict that at his deathbed Sol88 will still be claiming mainstream is about to be proven wrong.

Almost as perfect a post as jonesdave116's post, Lukraak_Sisser!

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 31 Mar 2020 to add his demented lies about electric discharges).

Thanks Lukraak_Sisser who writes how bad "Sol88's theory" is because it violates a lot of physics and Sol88 will cling to his fantasies even at his deathbed.
The "Every experiment with nuclear fusion needs to be wrong and not have worked" part may be a reference to Sol88's insane faith in the electric sun. Any first year astronomy student, anyone with the brains to Google and anyone who can read the explanations in this thread knows that the electric sun is insane because it removes the internal heat source that keeps that Sun from collapsing into a white dwarf. Add no detection of their imaginary electric current powering the Sun. Add "Don Scott's fusion in the chromosphere" that turns the Sun into a strong gamma emitter probably killing us all and the insanity should be complete. But it is not! The SAFIRE project just adds a mountain to craziness associated with an already demented cult. It started out as Monty Childs deluded fantasy that the Sun cannot be powered by fusion when we have detected the neutrinos from the fusion (also see above)! So he had the irrational idea of modeling that Sun as close to a plasma globe and doing experiments. After maybe 7 years, all they had were delusions about the experiment on a web site and 1 standard plasma physics paper from 1 researcher. They have now gone off the deep end by changing to a company promoting a "free energy" scam.

[steenkh]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Almost as perfect a post as jonesdave116's post, Lukraak_Sisser!

A "perfect post" seems to be a post that you cannot counter, so you choose to ignore it, and bring up another subject.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

<snip> After maybe 7 years, all they had were delusions about the experiment on a web site and 1 standard plasma physics paper from 1 researcher. They have now gone off the deep end by changing to a company promoting a "free energy" scam.

I made a couple of posts on LENR/ E-Cat forums about SAFIRE. I don't expect them to take much notice, as they want to believe in their woo as much as Sol does in his. However, I suggested that Childs was essentially scientifically untrustworthy, given that he saw fit to chuck north of $4m at an experiment that is testing something that is scientifically impossible. One question they don't seem to be able to answer is;

"If the Sun is an anode, how can it simultaneously attract and repel electrons?"

That seemed to stump them. My main reason for posting was to draw attention to the scientific credentials of the people behind this, and where the funding was coming from. If it puts one investor off, then job done. However, given the financial mess we are likely to be in after the pandemic, I think SAFIRE is probably dead in the water. $4m+ of Velikovskian money straight down the drain. No papers, no free energy scam. Awfully sad. Not

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Almost as perfect a post as jonesdave116's post, Lukraak_Sisser!

Yet, as steenkh noticed, it is true and you refuse to address these massive holes in your so called theory by diving down the rabbit hole of ridicule and misquoted minutiae.
You're amusing, but in no way convincing to anybody but maybe yourself.

Your so called theory does not give an alternate explanation for observed facts, but rather calls for observed facts that we use in daily life to be wrong.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by steenkh

A "perfect post" seems to be a post that you cannot counter, so you choose to ignore it, and bring up another subject.

Would look like that to you, wouldn't it.


actually, waht it does refer to is statemetns like this from jonesdave116 and Lukraak_Sisser;

Quote:

However, we already know that there is a radial magnetic field.

Both of these statements cannot be true.

As pointed out by Tim Thompson 16 years ago. Given that the IMF is measured, and the radial electric field is both impossible, and isn't measured, then it can be dismissed as scientifically impossible woo.

When shown that we are talking about the MULTIPLE ELECTRIC FIELDS in play at a comet he runs away and changes subject.

Rocky comets are discharging to the solar wind. This is what the data tells us and the new papers are confirming.

All papers have been linked too and ignored.

So, perfect post to go over the same stuff again.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Yet, as steenkh noticed, it is true and you refuse to address these massive holes in your so called theory by diving down the rabbit hole of ridicule and misquoted minutiae.
You're amusing, but in no way convincing to anybody but maybe yourself.

Your so called theory does not give an alternate explanation for observed facts, but rather calls for observed facts that we use in daily life to be wrong.

Quote:

Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.

The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Comets are rocky objects that are less hydrated than carbonaceous chondrites. Even though comets contain

Quote:

One of the observers was the Spitzer Space Telescope, a NASA mission that takes pictures in the infrared part of the spectrum. In the burst of light after the collision, Spitzer detected specific colors of infrared light that indicated that Tempel 1 contained clays and carbonates, the minerals of limestone and seashells.

Clays and carbonates both require liquid water to form.

"How do clays and carbonates form in frozen comets where there isn't liquid water?" said Carey M. Lisse, a research scientist at the Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University who is presenting the Spitzer data today at a meeting of the Division for Planetary Sciences in Cambridge, England. "Nobody expected this."

composition-of-a-comet-poses-a-puzzle-for-scientists


The ELECTRIC COMET DID.

So I was unsure how you update the dirtysnowball model?

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 31 Mar 2020 to add his demented lies about electric discharges).
Random recent insanity from Sol88.:

1. Sol88's demented lie about "A fully Kinetic Perspective of Electron Acceleration..." only using electric fields.
2. Sol88 demonstrates how utterly insane he is by expanding his demented delusion that comets have less water then asteroids
3. Sol88 emphasizes his insanity with an image of the expected change in topology of Tempel 1. Deep Impact on Temple 1 shows insane he is.
4. Sol88 quotes a definition of electric discharge from Wikipedia that shows he is a deluded liar
5. Next post: Sol88 doubles up on his insane lying. There are no electrical discharges in the paper.
6. Many cases of Sol88 being a coward, a liar and land running away from changing his delusions into science, e.g. evidence for electric discharges on comets.
   jonesdave116: So where are these discharges? Show me the detection, and stop running away
   jonesdave116: When are you going to grow a pair, and actually email Deca, instead of lying about his paper
7. A new deranged lie by quote mining with no source a 15 year old newspaper article!

This post: Sol88's persistent insane lies about posts and posters.
Sol88 wrote a post as with his many years of deranged lies about his demented cult's dogma. That dogma has a imaginary radial solar electric field. Sol88 shows his compete insanity by ranting about mainstream electric fields in comet coma. Sol88 is so brainless that he thinks plasma (gas + ion + electrons) having electric fields is his cult's demented dogma .

jonesdave116 wrote about the real dogma in So, you have a radial electric field. However, we already know that there is a radial magnetic field. Both of these statements cannot be true. As pointed out by Tim Thompson 16 years ago.

Sol88 repeats his deranged lie that the electric comet is rocks (decades of insanity there!) discharging in the solar wind. Doubly insane because Sol knows that the solar wind is stopped by the coma. The demented electric comet dogma is imaginary rocks discharging in an imaginary solar electric field.

Next post: Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again with repeating insane lies about science.
A new deranged lie by quote mining with no source a 15 year old newspaper article!
Composition of a Comet Poses a Puzzle for Scientists Sept. 7, 2005 (2 months after Deep Impact)

Quote:

One of the observers was the Spitzer Space Telescope, a NASA mission that takes pictures in the infrared part of the spectrum. In the burst of light after the collision, Spitzer detected specific colors of infrared light that indicated that Tempel 1 contained clays and carbonates, the minerals of limestone and seashells.

Clays and carbonates both require liquid water to form.

"How do clays and carbonates form in frozen comets where there isn't liquid water?" said Carey M. Lisse, a research scientist at the Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University who is presenting the Spitzer data today at a meeting of the Division for Planetary Sciences in Cambridge, England. "Nobody expected this."
...
Observations of the Deep Impact collision confirmed that the comet is mostly empty space. The outer layers of Tempel 1 are "unbelievably fragile, less strong than a snow bank," said Michael A'Hearn, the mission's principal investigator, during a telephone news conference yesterday.

Michael A'Hearn states that comet Tempel 1 is not rock ! We already knew that Sol88 was spewing out insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn and all astronomers by Sol88 linking them with Sol88's demented dogma, etc. and now Sol88 confirms his insanity!

For others:
The answer for the question Carey M. Lisse asked is what he speculated about that article:

Quote:

Dr. Lisse said that the presence of the clays, carbonates and crystalline silicates indicated that material in the solar system's primordial cloud had somehow become well-mixed with dust from the inner solar system migrating outward, or that the minerals had formed through unexpected chemical reactions.

The clays and carbonates formed in the inner, early, hot solar system and migrated outward by radiation pressure.
There may be some cases of clays and carbonates not forming in frozen comets: In April 2011, scientists from the University of Arizona discovered evidence for the presence of liquid water in comet Wild 2.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.

Sol88 repeats his deranged lie that the electric comet is rocks (decades of insanity there!) discharging in the solar wind. Doubly insane because Sol knows that the solar wind is stopped by the coma. The demented electric comet dogma is imaginary rocks discharging in an imaginary solar electric field.

Next post: Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again with repeating insane lies about science.
A deranged lie by quote mining with no source a 15 year old newspaper article. Composition of a Comet Poses a Puzzle for Scientists

Sorry my apologies reality check here is a more reputable source saying the same thing.

Tempel 1's Secret Ingredients Revealed Secret???

Anyhoo...

Quote:

Though the post-impact spectrum is still being analyzed, it shows that Tempel 1's ejecta contain the following chemicals: smectite clay; iron-containing compounds; carbonates, the minerals in seashells; crystallized silicates, such as the green olivine minerals found on beaches and in the gemstone peridot; and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are carbon-containing compounds found in car exhaust and on burnt toast.

So plenty hydrocarbons along with rocky minerals!

Do you still deny this reality check?

Because even the EXPERTS were most surprised!

Quote:

Astronomers were most surprised to see clay, carbonates, and crystallized silicates because these chemicals are thought have formed in warm environments, possibly near the Sun, but away from the chilly outer neighborhood of comets.

How did these compounds get inside comets?

One possibility is that materials in our early solar system mixed together before being sorted out into individual bodies.

"How did these compounds get inside comets?" ummmm.... maybe that is the comet, not ice.



Like bloody herding kittens, you mob!

[Sol88]

Quote:

Michael A'Hearn states that comet Tempel 1 is not rock ! We already knew that Sol88 was spewing out insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn and all astronomers by Sol88 linking them with Sol88's demented dogma, etc. and now Sol88 confirms his insanity!

No A'Hearn said 67P was MOSTLY ROCK, I think. Let me check...

Quote:

At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly ROCK, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high
as 6 have been cited [3,4]. Michael F. A’Hearn

Nope, he did in fact write ROCK. Incompetent? when he really meant ICE? Even after clarifying it in the same paragraph?

Cant even quote properly, can you.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 31 Mar 2020 to add his demented lies about electric discharges).
Random recent insanity from Sol88

This post: An insane lie about my post which has A new deranged lie by quote mining with no source a 15 year old newspaper article!
The lie is quote mining an article from Sept. 7, 2005 which gives a speculative answer to the question and later debunks his demented dogma. Sol88 is so deranged that he thinks science stopped in 2005 !
Sol88 goes an insane rant with

• Another source dated 09.07.05 saying the same
• His insane insult that I deny the scientific results.
• His and his demented cult's insanity that scientists cannot be surprised and that being surprised is bad.

The results from Deep Impact are not in question and show that Sol88 and his cult are insane ! Tempel 1's Secret Ingredients Revealed did not list any minerals unique to his insanity of rock from planets. The list is minerals that we knew then or know now 15 years later to form in the early solar system. No limestone, basalt, sandstone, etc. that his insanity demands.
Sol88 confirms his insanity that A'Hearn stated that comets are actual rocks by quoting A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers.

[Reality Check]

Missed the deadline for editing a post and this needs to be a separate post to show what insanity Sol88 is capable of.
Sol88 confirms his insanity that A'Hearn stated that comets are actual rocks by quoting A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers. Note that Sol88's deranged dogma is that even the surface of comets is rock.
Composition of a Comet Poses a Puzzle for Scientists Sept. 7, 2005 (2 months after Deep Impact)

Quote:

Observations of the Deep Impact collision confirmed that the comet is mostly empty space. The outer layers of Tempel 1 are "unbelievably fragile, less strong than a snow bank," said Michael A'Hearn, the mission's principal investigator, during a telephone news conference yesterday.

Michael A'Hearn states that outer layers of comet Tempel 1 are "a snow bank", not rock !
We already knew that Sol88 was spewing out insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn and all astronomers by Sol88 linking them with Sol88's demented dogma, etc. and now Sol88 confirms his insanity !
Sol88 is too cowardly to link to the paper and expose his delusions and insults:
Comets: looking ahead

Quote:

Abstract
We outline the key questions about comets that must be answered in order to understand cometary formation in the context of the protoplanetary disc and the role of comets in the formation and evolution of the solar system. We then discuss the new understanding of comets from Rosetta and from other recent advances, including work presented by others at the discussion meeting. Finally, we suggest some key directions for future projects to better address the above questions.
...
c) What are comets made of?

At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high as 6 have been cited [3,4]. Nevertheless, there is still considerable uncertainty about even this basic parameter, not least of which is that most measurements are subject to selection effects in removing refractories from the nucleus to the coma, where they are observed as dust.

With improvements in remote sensing over the last decade and particularly the wealth of measurements from Rosetta, we are making large strides in answering the question of which volatiles (ices) are near the surface of cometary nuclei, and the Deep Impact experiment implies that the near-surface volatiles are representative of the deeper interior [5,6]. The indications are that there is a large dispersion in relative abundances with only very limited correlations between relative abundances and any other parameters. On the other hand, we know very little about the abundance of the many possible refractory species. As noted above, there were great advances from the Stardust mission, particularly the clear demonstration that cometary silicate grains had been transported from near the Sun to the region of cometary formation, but the selection effects in collecting the returned samples make it almost impossible to say much quantitatively about the bulk abundances of refractories [7].

It takes 1 brain cell to understand that "comets" is more than 1 comet! In astronomy "refractory" means non-volatile as opposed to volatile (not Sol88's insanity of actual rock).

[Reality Check]

Sol88's insanity of citing a 15 year old clays and carbonates finding.
Read Sol88 confirms his insanity that A'Hearn stated that comets are actual rocks by quoting A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers. for Sol88 showing he is insane with his previous links to the 15 year old discovery of clays and carbonates in the Deep Impact ejecta from Tempel 1.
Sol88 has been ranting about Comets: looking ahead (2017 May 29) probably since it was published.
A'Hearn wrote "As noted above, there were great advances from the Stardust mission, particularly the clear demonstration that cometary silicate grains had been transported from near the Sun to the region of cometary formation, ..."
That is evidence that any kind of grains near the Sun can transport to the region of cometary formation. Thus my The clays and carbonates formed in the inner, early, hot solar system and migrated outward by radiation pressure. summary of the explanation. Maybe not just radiation pressure - freshly formed stars also have much stronger solar winds.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Missed the deadline for editing a post and this needs to be a separate post to show what insanity Sol88 is capable of.
Sol88 confirms his insanity that A'Hearn stated that comets are actual rocks by quoting A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers. Note that Sol88's deranged dogma is that even the surface of comets is rock.
Composition of a Comet Poses a Puzzle for Scientists Sept. 7, 2005 (2 months after Deep Impact)

Michael A'Hearn states that outer layers of comet Tempel 1 are "a snow bank", not rock !
We already knew that Sol88 was spewing out insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn and all astronomers by Sol88 linking them with Sol88's demented dogma, etc. and now Sol88 confirms his insanity !
Sol88 is too cowardly to link to the paper and expose his delusions and insults:
Comets: looking ahead

It takes 1 brain cell to understand that "comets" is more than 1 comet! In astronomy "refractory" means non-volatile as opposed to volatile (not Sol88's insanity of actual rock).

Jebus, you are all on a roll!

Absolutely perfect post by reality check!

You are, again correct refractories are indeed NON VOLATILE.

As A'Hearn did indeed say

Quote:

At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material

Though OUR understanding, not jonesy and his cronies, understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock. This ROCK is also, like RC refractory NON VOLATILE material is also NON volatile, same as A'Hearn's!

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Sol88's insanity of citing a 15 year old clays and carbonates finding.
Read Sol88 confirms his insanity that A'Hearn stated that comets are actual rocks by quoting A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers. for Sol88 showing he is insane with his previous links to the 15 year old discovery of clays and carbonates in the Deep Impact ejecta from Tempel 1.
Sol88 has been ranting about Comets: looking ahead (2017 May 29) probably since it was published.
A'Hearn wrote "As noted above, there were great advances from the Stardust mission, particularly the clear demonstration that cometary silicate grains had been transported from near the Sun to the region of cometary formation, ..."
That is evidence that any kind of grains near the Sun can transport to the region of cometary formation. Thus my The clays and carbonates formed in the inner, early, hot solar system and migrated outward by radiation pressure. summary of the explanation. Maybe not just radiation pressure - freshly formed stars also have much stronger solar winds.

Surprising! in that "wheres the WATER?" in the early hot solar system.

Not really, we can accommodate that little discrepancy in the DIRTYSNOWBALL model!

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Comets are rocky objects that are less hydrated than carbonaceous chondrites. Even though comets contain composition-of-a-comet-poses-a-puzzle-for-scientists


The ELECTRIC COMET DID.

So I was unsure how you update the dirtysnowball model?

None of which has anything to do with your failed woo. No rock, no electric woo. No radial electric field. No mechanisms, no evidence. Why are you still here, other than your religious devotion to the crap proposed by a couple of Velikovskian loons?

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Surprising! in that "wheres the WATER?" in the early hot solar system.

Not really, we can accommodate that little discrepancy in the DIRTYSNOWBALL model!

The comet didn't form in the inner solar system. Learn to read. And has nothing to do with your failed woo. Stick to the topic of your failed woo.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Jebus, you are all on a roll!

Absolutely perfect post by reality check!

You are, again correct refractories are indeed NON VOLATILE.

As A'Hearn did indeed say

Though OUR understanding, not jonesy and his cronies, understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock. This ROCK is also, like RC refractory NON VOLATILE material is also NON volatile, same as A'Hearn's!

Is just more lies about what A'Hearn said and meant. Pathetic. It doesn't matter a damn what the ratio of dust to ice is on one comet. We know that there is ice, and we know that there is gas from that ice. And we know that there is sufficient to stop the solar wind thousands of kilometres from the nucleus, and to form a diamagnetic cavity. None of those things are explainable by your failed woo. Mainly due to you not knowing of their existence when you set off on this defence of your Velikovskian non-science. Just as it wasn't known to the clowns who invented it.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

No A'Hearn said 67P was MOSTLY ROCK, I think. Let me check...



Nope, he did in fact write ROCK. Incompetent? when he really meant ICE? Even after clarifying it in the same paragraph?

Cant even quote properly, can you.

Liar. Show me the detection of rock. How many times, liar? Get on with it, and stop lying. Just for once.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Would look like that to you, wouldn't it.


actually, waht it does refer to is statemetns like this from jonesdave116 and Lukraak_Sisser;




When shown that we are talking about the MULTIPLE ELECTRIC FIELDS in play at a comet he runs away and changes subject.

Rocky comets are discharging to the solar wind. This is what the data tells us and the new papers are confirming.

All papers have been linked too and ignored.

So, perfect post to go over the same stuff again.

More lying. No radial field. Fact. And I have run away from nothing, you lying clown. I have told you, repeatedly, that the electric fields only exist courtesy of the outgassing. How many times do you need telling before it penetrates your thick skull? Go troll somewhere else.

[jonesdave116]

This thread has run its course. The 'model' that is the main topic of the thread has been well and truly debunked. Its one and only proponent has failed to make a case for it. Furthermore, said proponent lacks the qualifications, education and intellectual capacity to be able to defend it scientifically. He therefore is reduced to lying and trolling. I, for one, see no benefit in keeping this troll fest open.

[jonesdave116]

Let's remind ourselves of what Sol is trying to Gish gallop away from most recently;

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More nonsense. You seem to forget what your woo claims. Let me refresh your memory;

Quote:

Comets follow their elongated paths within a weak electrical field centered on the Sun. In approaching the Sun, a charge imbalance develops between the nucleus and the higher voltage and charge density near the Sun. Growing electrical stresses initiate discharges and the formation of a glowing plasma sheath, appearing as the coma and tail.

So, you have a radial electric field. However, we already know that there is a radial magnetic field. Both of these statements cannot be true. As pointed out by Tim Thompson 16 years ago. Given that the IMF is measured, and the radial electric field is both impossible, and isn't measured, then it can be dismissed as scientifically impossible woo. So, the raison d'etre of your electric comet woo just disappeared. That renders the rest of it moot.
However, as also mentioned by TT, the comet is supposed to be charging up where there is no charge, and discharging where there is more charge! More impossible woo.
Discharges are obviously not initiated, as they would be detected. Another failure..
And there is no glowing plasma sheath. The only light coming from the cometary coma is from sunlight reflected from dust. As observed. Yet more fail.
Not going well, is it? So, let us look further at what the electric idiots claim;

Quote:

The observed jets of comets are electric arc discharges to the nucleus, producing “electrical discharge machining” (EDM) of the surface. The excavated material is accelerated into space along the jets’ observed filamentary arcs.

Oh dear! How can anyone possibly believe that, and claim to be sane, let alone scientifically literate!
Well, let's see; no discharges to the nucleus. The magnetometer data is publicly available. The spikes from these non-existent discharges should stick out like a sore thumb. They aren't there.
EDM (lol) is a highly controlled process, that simply does not occur in nature. It is a human construct. It most certainly does not occur on comets. Again, it would stick out like a sore thumb. It doesn't. Remember the magnetometer data? Particularly from within the DC, when the comet is most active? What does 0 nT mean to the electric idiots? Hmmm? And we knew this since 1986!

So, your claims that charge separation = discharges is a moot point. Discharges would be measured, and aren't.
As for the paper itself; well, If I was writing the paper, and there had been some large scale violation of quasi-neutrality (i.e. well beyond the Debye length), I would say so. And my wording, regarding the electric field that ensures quasi-neutrality, would be along the lines of, "the electric field therefore ensures that quasi-neutrality is RE-ESTABLISHED." However, their wording is, "quasi-neutrality is MAINTAINED." "Maintained", to me, means it never went away.
However, these are all moot points, as there were no discharges measured, and no EDM (lol) was measured. And there cannot be a radial electric field. And you cannot gain charge where there is none, and discharge it where there is lots. You cannot blast pieces of planets into space with electric woo. And there is no rock anyway. So, the whole thing is based on a couple of Velikovskian twits, with zero scientific knowledge, looking at highly stretched pictures of comets, and deliberately lying and obfuscating about a handful of press releases, in order to con the gullible.
Give yourself a pat on the back for being one of the few people on the planet gullible enough to be conned by such nonsense.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Originally Posted by Sol88

The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Comets are rocky objects that are less hydrated than carbonaceous chondrites. Even though comets contain composition-of-a-comet-poses-a-puzzle-for-scientists


The ELECTRIC COMET DID.

So I was unsure how you update the dirtysnowball model?

See, more nonsense and misunderstanding to deviate away from the fact that the entire underlying 'model' for your fantasy does not exist.
The fact that you clearly live in a country without ice and therefore do not know that ice behaves like rock, and can sublimate does not mean that suddenly the EU nonsense will work.
And since the EC will only work in the fantasy universe for the EU your model will never amount to something.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 31 Mar 2020 to add his demented lies about electric discharges).
Random recent insanity from Sol88
Sol88 confirms his insanity that A'Hearn stated that comets are actual rocks by quoting A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers.
Sol88's insanity of citing a 15 year old clays and carbonates finding that is explained and indirectly confirmed by A'Hearn.

This post: Sol88's current "prefect post" insanity
My posts tell the world about Sol88 decades of insanity about comets and maybe as long insanity about the Sun. Sol88 is an follower of a blatantly demented cult with "electric comet" and "electric sun" delusions and his own personal delusions about comets and maybe the Sun. Decades of documented ignorance, lies, delusions, and insults shows that Sol88 is an insane follower of the cult . It is possible that even the cult is ashamed of him given his demented lies about their dogma! On the other hand the Thunderbolts cult is basically a religious group and they tend not to have any shame about their members going on evangelical rampages demonstrating how deluded the cult and the follower are. On the third hand (), their prophet David Talbott did make a fleeting appearance in this thread and a reason he may have left could be Sol88's obviously insane posts.

Next post: Soll88 shows that he is insane with more demented questions.
It has been decades now and he is still abysmally ignorant about astronomy and even chemistry !

For others: Water is everywhere and common in the universe because H and O are everywhere in the universe, H is the most abundant element, and O is the third most abundant element in the Universe, The molecular cloud that collapsed to form the Sun had water, H and O, etc. in it. A tiny bit of the water we drink has existed for maybe 12.8 billion years (see below), some for fewer billions of years and some is recent from the chemistry of H + O + O = water.
Water was plentiful in the early universe (a model run in 2015).

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

The comet didn't form in the inner solar system. Learn to read. And has nothing to do with your failed woo. Stick to the topic of your failed woo.

Quote:

Quote:
Astronomers were most surprised to see clay, carbonates, and crystallized silicates because these chemicals are thought have formed in warm environments, possibly near the Sun, but away from the chilly outer neighborhood of comets.

How did these compounds get inside comets?

One possibility is that materials in our early solar system mixed together before being sorted out into individual bodies.

Learn too read!

How did they sport!

Little bit of majik here some hand waving there and bingo...clay, carbonates, and crystallized silicates, ROCK.

How do clay's and carbonates form close to the Sun, jonesdave116?

I know they do here on Earth, with liquid water?

You have no mechanism except hand waving.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

See, more nonsense and misunderstanding to deviate away from the fact that the entire underlying 'model' for your fantasy does not exist.
The fact that you clearly live in a country without ice and therefore do not know that ice behaves like rock, and can sublimate does not mean that suddenly the EU nonsense will work.
And since the EC will only work in the fantasy universe for the EU your model will never amount to something.

But still here we are!

Comets are rocky objects discharging in the solar wind!

Ice...

So comets are dirty snowballs in you fantasy world still, Lukraak_Sisser?

We stopped using that model a few pages back and NO new mainstream model has been put forward.

NO dirtysnowball = no mainstream model.

on the other hand...

Quote:

11 CONCLUSIONS

The classical model of comets as dirty ice balls (Whipple 1950) has
focused most models of comets on ices.

The more we visit comets, the dustier they appear. With 67P’s dust-to-water ratio of 6 (and possibly larger), it is now necessary to spend much more time in modelling the non-volatile matrices with a modest content of ices inside.

Jean-Pierre Bibring proposes a new word naming this stuff,
‘organic(e)s’, where the modest content of ices (within brackets)
well summarizes the dominant non-volatile component.

Between the sizes of 0.1 and 1 mm, 99 per cent of the dust mass is in the
form of compact particles, denser than the nucleus. This implies
that much of the nucleus mass is in the form of mineral aggregates
(silicates and sulfides), so that a better definition may be ‘mineral
organic(e)s’.

Unexpected and significant findings in comet
67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

And I see you are a clever cookie, do you have a rational mainstream dirtysnowball explination for; "99 per cent of the dust mass is in the form of compact particles, denser than the nucleus."

When and using all the maths and gravity experiment data from the RSI to come up with

Quote:

For a range of compacted dust material density from 2000 to 3500 kg/m3, the porosity varies between 65% - 79% when the dust-to-ice mass ratio F nucleus for the nucleus body lies in the range 3 ≤ Fnucleus ≤ 7.

The nucleus is thus a highly porous very dusty body with very little ice.

Martin Pätzold

Which reinforces A'Hearn's statement

Quote:

our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G

So,

Quote:

Given that the 67P high friction coefficients are comparable, or even exceed, those found on Earth dry landslides (Legros, 2002), this implies
a mechanically rocky-type behaviour for the cometary material.

Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.

The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko


What rock? Well that kind of ROCK, for starters

Quote:

smectite clay; iron-containing compounds; carbonates, the minerals in seashells; crystallized silicates, such as the green olivine minerals found on beaches and in the gemstone peridot;

Tempel 1's Secret Ingredients Revealed.

So, pretty good argument that comets ARE INDEED ROCKY objects!


As stated by the ELECTRIC COMET.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

This thread has run its course. The 'model' that is the main topic of the thread has been well and truly debunked. Its one and only proponent has failed to make a case for it. Furthermore, said proponent lacks the qualifications, education and intellectual capacity to be able to defend it scientifically. He therefore is reduced to lying and trolling. I, for one, see no benefit in keeping this troll fest open.

Mummy skirt is just over there jonesdave116. That seems to be your safe place to hide!

Quote:

Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.

Marco Fulle

Chew on that champ!

Dirtysnowballls melting in the Sun, along with pink unicorns, farting rainbows...

Lovely bedtime story!

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

More lying. No radial field. Fact. And I have run away from nothing, you lying clown. I have told you, repeatedly, that the electric fields only exist courtesy of the outgassing. How many times do you need telling before it penetrates your thick skull? Go troll somewhere else.

Oh Dear




Nice farietale but will need some significant updating to save the dirtysnowball!

For instance and I'm not too sure why you struggle to understand

Quote:

Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.

Quote:

The nucleus is thus a highly porous very dusty body with very little ice.

Quote:

The more we visit comets, the dustier they appear.

Quote:

Though the post-impact spectrum is still being analyzed, it shows that Tempel 1's ejecta contain the following chemicals: smectite clay; iron-containing compounds; carbonates, the minerals in seashells; crystallized silicates, such as the green olivine minerals found on beaches and in the gemstone peridot; and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are carbon-containing compounds found in car exhaust and on burnt toast.

Quote:

Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock,

Struggling still there jonesdave116?

Your mission and to make sense of YOUR model, reconcile these statements...

The nucleus is thus a highly porous very dusty body with very little ice, The more we visit comets, the dustier they appear. Right so dusty and porous.

to reconcile with Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.

Mainstream cant even get their $^#% together even with all the "smart" people and $$$$

Have a go ya mug!

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Liar. Show me the detection of rock. How many times, liar? Get on with it, and stop lying. Just for once.

You make it sound like I'm saying rock!

No these are as far as I know, mainstream peer reviewed papers!

Quote:

Our findings reject the idea that comets are fluffy aggregates, instead, they are characterised by consolidated surfaces.

The dirtysnowball, REJECTED!

Sorry, buttercup!

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

More lying. No radial field. Fact. And I have run away from nothing, you lying clown. I have told you, repeatedly, that the electric fields only exist courtesy of the outgassing. How many times do you need telling before it penetrates your thick skull? Go troll somewhere else.

How are the cometary Electrons and Ions leaving the necleus?

Already decoupled from "gas" at the surfce of the nucleus...

Go...

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Learn too read!

How did they sport!

Little bit of majik here some hand waving there and bingo...clay, carbonates, and crystallized silicates, ROCK.

How do clay's and carbonates form close to the Sun, jonesdave116?

I know they do here on Earth, with liquid water?

You have no mechanism except hand waving.

Liar. No rock. It doesn't matter how many times you lie about it, it isn't there. Grow up. And there is zero chance the comet was formed in the inner solar system.

Quote:

Learn too read

Learn to spell. Something else they teach at school, along with science.

The nuclear spin temperatures of H₂O show that the ice from which the H₂O comes formed at temperatures ~ < 50 K. And there is also the N₂, which constrains it to less than ~ 30 K.
Do you know the temperature in the inner solar system? Guess what it isn't.

WATER PRODUCTION RATES, ROTATIONAL TEMPERATURES, AND SPIN TEMPERATURES IN COMETS C/1999 H1 (LEE), C/1999 S4, AND C/2001 A2
Dello Russo, N. et al (2005) (another paper predating your woo)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/427473/pdf

Molecular nitrogen in comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko indicates a low formation temperature
Rubin, M. et al. (2015) (5 years ago!)
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01346031/document

So, you can lie and obfuscate all you like. The evidence says you are wrong.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

How are the cometary Electrons and Ions leaving the necleus?

Already decoupled from "gas" at the surfce of the nucleus...

Go...

What the hell are you prattling on about now? You have been told multiple times by myself and Tusenfem, that the gas around the comet is overwhelmingly neutral. Around 1 000 000:1 in favour of neutrals to ions. So, go make something else up, because that is yet more crap.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

You make it sound like I'm saying rock!

No these are as far as I know, mainstream peer reviewed papers!



The dirtysnowball, REJECTED!

Sorry, buttercup!

Liar. Do you ever stop lying? There is no rock. Show me the detection, and stop lying. You can't, because it never happened. Wrong strength, wrong density, wrong thermal inertia, wrong dielectric properties, et boring cetera. I can show all that by linking to papers. And have done. All you can do is lie. Pathetic. You are a troll. Nothing more.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Have a go ya mug!

Take a hike you liar. Ice is observed. Sublimation is observed. No rock is observed. No electric woo is observed. No radial field is possible, nor detected. You were conned, woo boy. You are still batting zero after 15 years of defending a bunch of Velikovskian crap, that was demonstrably false before it was invented! What a waste of time.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

NO dirtysnowball = no mainstream model.

Liar.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

So, pretty good argument that comets ARE INDEED ROCKY objects!

Liar.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

Dirtysnowballls melting in the Sun

Idiot.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

Tempel 1's Secret Ingredients Revealed.

You mean the same Tempel 1 where a crater was created that is far too big to have been created in rock? That Tempel 1? The same Tempel 1 from which thousands of tonnes of solid ice were excavated? That one? Where there was zero indication of any electric woo, despite Thornhill's lies? Are we talking about the same comet? Fail. Learn to understand the difference between dust and rock. We had that stuff explained in primary school. Perhaps you never made it that far?

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 31 Mar 2020 to add his demented lies about electric discharges).
Random recent insanity from Sol88
Sol88 confirms his insanity that A'Hearn stated that comets are actual rocks by quoting A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers.
Sol88's insanity of citing a 15 year old clays and carbonates finding that is explained and indirectly confirmed by A'Hearn.

This post: Persists with insane lies about posts and posters, e.g. he is the one with years of showing that he cannot read!
Next post: Persists with insane lies about posts and posters.
Lukraak_Sisser wrote See, more nonsense and misunderstanding to deviate away from the fact that the entire underlying 'model' for your fantasy does not exist. ....
Sol88 goes on an rant about the mansistesm "dirty snowball" model with the insane lie that we have abandoned it and the even more insane lie that there is no mainstream model.
Sol88 confirms his abysmal inability to understand what he reads or the insanity of blatantly lying about what he reads !
For that last 70 years were have been successfully modeling comets using ices and both ices and dust depending on what was being investigated. Unexpected and significant findings in comet
67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view is suggesting that the mainstream ices and dust comets modelling that already use both dust and ices should be using more dust than ices more often since we have found 67P has more dust than ices (and Temple 1 may have more dust then ices). If comets in general are found to have more dust then ices then the name of the model may be changed.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn and all astronomers by Sol88 linking them with Sol88's demented dogma, etc.

To added to "Random recent insanity from Sol88":
Sol88 persists with his decades old and insane lie that the Tempel 1 is a rock when in 2005 Deep Impact ejected up 20% to 50% water ices and made a crater that is ~14 times bigger than one in rock would be. Thus A'Hearn stating that Tempel 1 had "snowbank" outer layers.

Next post: An insane rant.
Next post: An insane rant.
Next post: An insane rant with his usual utterly insane lies about his and his cult's demented dogma which is that comets are actual rock.
Next post: Demented questions about his insane delusions about comets.
jonesdave116 wrote More lying. No radial field. Fact. And I have run away from nothing, you lying clown ... about Sol88's and his cult's demented dogma.